to think this girl should be suspended for punching dd in the face?

[Crazybit]

dd in year 7 (aged 11) was in a corridor at school today, lots of pushing going on apparantly, dd was pushed into a girl, the girl turned round and punched her in the face.

The other girl had the upper school t shirt on so was at least in year 10 (minimum age 14) and ran off after it happened.

Thre girl has not been identified yet, dd did not know who she was nor did her friends but the school are going to attempt to find out who it was..by descriptions/pictures.

I don't know what the procedure is for this type of thing but what kind of consequences are likely/should their be?

dd has got bruising and headache but I'm quite worried about the psychological impact too as she was already suffering from anxiety related to a violent incident a few months ago.

Any advice on how I should deal with this? Don't want to baby her but also don't want to be unsupportive...also, I don't know what the school are going to do but AIU to push for suspension..or even to get the police involved?

[JayVazzle]

A girl in dds year punched another girl in the face and made her nose bleed badly, I think she was excluded for 2 weeks.

Parents didn't get police involved, not sure why.

[troisgarcons]

Very difficult to exclude someone who hasn't been identified.

Cant comment on school procedures as each school is different.


Of course no one knows the circumstances as there cannot possibly each view put forward in witness statements (because one participant has yet to be identified)

[vj32]

In the school I worked at, automatic exclusion, no question. Probably 2 days. Then meeting with head of year or deputy head and parents before they were allowed back into school. But every school has different procedures, so its hard to generalise.

I would wait and see what the school do before you do anything. But I would speak to her head of year and form tutor - make sure all her teachers are aware that she could be upset and is vulnerable at the moment and to keep an eye on her.

[Crazybit]

Thanks for the replies. i know i'm jumping the gun and school may be great and handle it perfectly but feel helpless atm so just wanted to sound it out in case I need to respond to a decision tomorrow. Trois-yup i know, but there is quite a good description so she should be able to be identified hopefully..they just didn't have much time before the end of school.

[topknob]

I am of the opinion the minute another child physically harms a child of mine I WILL involve the police..thankfully ds1 is in yr 9 and not had to do it yet..hope your dd is ok x

[troisgarcons]

It's also not your place to query school decisons on exculsion policy - each will be decided on merit. You might think it's a 5-dayer - but for what ever reason the school may decide it isn't.

You are also hearing one side of the situation.

I would also point out - tho Im willing to be corrected - it's nigh on impossible for a school to exclude (other than internally) 'looked after' children, those under CAMHS, and others known to childrens services.

You also will not be advised (formally) what action has been taken should the girl be identifed, due to Child Protection Policies.

You will only be advised the matter has been dealt with accordingly. Although you will probably hear on the grapevine that so-and-so has received 'a punishment'.

[marriedinwhite]

Oh, I think you telephone first thing and say your daughter will not be attending until the head has telephoned you personally and ensured that your daughter will in future be safe. You then follow up that call in writing, confirming your daughter's injuries and the steps the school is taking to identify the culprit. I also think you should telephone the policy to report this assault upon your daughter. The police can then follow up identification with the school on your behalf.

Personally I think the -violent little bitch-- underprivileged child with behavioural problems should be expelled and sent to a pupil referral unit immediately. Severe consequences would put off a few of her chums in future. At best you will probably get a double speak apology expressing regret for an unfortunate incident for which there is insufficient evidence for anything more than a day of internal isolation and at best a three day fixed term exclusion and pastoral support plan to give the poor girl lots and lots of extra attention at the expense of the children who behave and work hard.

What you do do though, is put it in writing, request an action plan, report it to the police, copy the governors and request in writing confirmation that the school will ensure that your daughter comes to no further harm. Make sure they know that if anything similar happens this time is documented and you will not hesitate to raise a formal complaint.

[AmberLeaf]

I would also point out - tho Im willing to be corrected - it's nigh on impossible for a school to exclude (other than internally) 'looked after' children, those under CAMHS, and others known to childrens services

Its very much possible! in fact IME its more likely in some cases.

[marriedinwhite]

Also, express your disappointment that the school has failed to ensure the physical safety of your daughter.

[3littlefrogs]

You must ensure that your dd is examined by a doctor and her injuries documented. Also, take photographs of the injuries. This is very important.

[Crazybit]

Thanks topknob.

Trois-If the school do not deal with it to my satisfaction then I will consider involving the police as I do not believe it is simply a case of scrapping between kids. If it happened as the teacher/dd has told me then I need reassurance that my dd is in a safe enviroment, not one where it is accepted that a child can simply turn round and punch someone with little provocation. But of course, you're right, I do only know one side of the story so far so will see what happens tomorrow.

[troisgarcons]

Its very much possible! in fact IME its more likely in some cases.

Really? Not what I see day-to-day.

[marriedinwhite]

Oh, and I do hope your dd is feeling better.

[Crazybit]

Sorry, x posted with many.

Thank you for all the replies.

Littlefrogs-that did cross my mind, I will see if there is anything to see in the morning.

Marriedinwhite-The worse thing is, it is a very middle class school, we chose this area for the school and pay a premium in rent just for the school. I wish we hadn't now.

[AmberLeaf]

Yes really.

[Rhinestone]

Bypass the school completely and call the police. This is assault and the other girl is above the age of criminal responsibility. It is a criminal offense and I've NEVER understood why criminal offenses which happen in a school are called 'bullying' and dealt with by teachers.

You wouldn't ask the police to teach your DD maths so don't allow a teacher to deal with an assault on your DD.

[weevilswobble]

Year 7 is a massive learning curve for students and parents. Sometimes you just have to let it go. Theres more to come believe me.

[AmberLeaf]

marriedinwhite

underprivileged child with behavioural problems

Was going to say in response to that that violence isnt limited to 'underprivileged' children you know. but the OP has just said that its actually a very middle class school so...

OP I hope your DD is ok and isnt affected by it for too long. Hopefully the school will do all they can to make sure it doesnt happen again and that your DD feels safe.

[troisgarcons]

If the school do not deal with it to my satisfaction then I will consider involving the police

You cannot make school adjust policy to suit you. Then decide it's a criminal matter becaue you hre having a hissy*fit.

It is either an assult worrthy or police investigation, or it isn't.

And for my two penn'orth worth - having been through this - if you really want to put your DD through a video taping of her statement AND hope that any witnesses parents will do the same, I think you might be disappointed at the support you get.

My son was assulted out side of school but he could ID the main assilants (fiftreen on to two as a Y8) and there was no way on Gods Green Earth he would agree to be a grass (much to my irritation)... THEN hoping there is enough evidence to go to court and go through the whole video thing again in a court room - well, fair play to you

[scurryfunge]

Parents have to agree with the matter being dealt with under a schools' policy, otherwise police can be involved.

[NoOnesGoingToEatYourEyes]

In what way is being pushed into somebody at least three years older than you (a big difference at 11-14 yo) who then turns around and punches you in the face a 'learning curve' weevils?

Why should the victim just think "there's more of that to come, I'll just let it go"?

[trixie123]

Do bear in mind that the design of most schools mean that at lesson change-over the corridors are a scrum and the little ones DO get shoved around. Is it at all possible that your DD was jostled and knocked, maybe a rucksack full of books hit her or something? I am NOT suggesting she is lying but you have 1000+ kids all making their way around narrow corridors trying to fit 30 mins of socialising into a 5 min break and there can be significant chaos that is very hard to manage. I only mention this because unless the culprit can be definitely identified that may be the school's defence.
As far as the police are concerned, generally the policy is to deal with things in one way or the other so if you WERE to get the police involved, you may get your assault charges but the culprit may not then receive a school punishment also. At the state school I worked at it was one or the other. Is it REALLY worthy of criminal charges? I do feel for your DD but as another poster said, this is big school and the fact that it is middle class does not mean that you are automatically guaranteed a serene and calm academically focused environment at all times.

[marriedinwhite]

Amberleaf - yes I'm aware, that's why I put violent little bitch before saying underprivileged child with behavioural problems. That's what I heard from dd's headteacher on too many occasions at the nice middleclass school we sent her to in y7 and y8. It was an excuse because the head didn't want to deal with the problems being created by a minority. There were some very nice children from very tough backgrounds who knew how to behave and worked hard. Unfortunately the one who behaved really badly were from the same estate(s) and the school did use it as an excuse for not dealing with the problem. It was incredibly disrespectful of the families who had done a good job for their children in spite of their circumstances. Never understood the head's perspective really because I don't believe underprivilege makes people bad and I don't believe no middle class children are bad but oddly the unprivileged ones were being allowed to rule unchallenged.

[marriedinwhite]

trixie CCTV can help.

[Crazybit]

Trixie, dd said the girl turned round with a really angry face, said that's it and punched her in the face. Dd said she'd shut her eyes before it happend and felt quite disorientated afterwards (like she was in a dream) She could describe her as being large built and a lot taller than dd. Also, other kids in her class have said the exact same thing to the teacher.

Whether it's a criminal matter...I just don't know, I think it is but at the same time, I don't want to overule the school as dd will be going there for the next 7 years hopefully and I want to maintain a good relationship with the school. Saying that, the safety of my dd is priority and so if it is not dealt with to what I feel is satisafactory, then I will obv have to consider our options..

I'm 8 months pregnant, dp is out of the country and I don't know anyone in the area so I am well aware that I am probably emotional and could be seen as over-reacting which is why I am asking for opinions on MN. Before anything can be done, I am going to have to sleep on it and see what happens in morning. Just feel so bad for dd :(