Does anybody actually know anyone who had an ELCS just because they thought they were "too posh to push"?

[InAStateOfReflux]

Just watching the Wright stuff. One of the hot topics is that apparently ELCS rates being performed by the NHS are rising because people are deciding they are "too posh to push" and it's costing the NHS lots of money.

They are suggesting that these women should be offered psychiatric counselling to bring them round to the idea of having a vaginal birth.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I was given an ELCS because my dd was breech and was in fact strongly advised to (not given much choice in fact) and anyone else I know who's had one has been offered it because of significant trauma or complications in a previous birth.

I have never however met a woman who insisted on one on the NHS just cause she didn't fancy pushing it out of her fanny, and I doubt the NHS would go with this anyway tbh...

And if they're talking about women who have real fears and emotional distress regarding child-birth, then yes of course lets force the hysterical wench to push it out, does she not know how much money she's costing the NHS?

Oh how I love the way the media portray these issues...[sigh] Yes perhaps ELCS rates are rising and perhaps this should be addressed in some way, but to suggest it is for such fickle reasons is so juvenile. Perhaps it is the HCPs fault and not the whole female population who are apparently too cowardly to push their babies out?

[nethunsreject]

No.

Yanbu.

Usual women blaming mysogynistic shite.

Stop watching daytime telly!

[ZZMum]

oh I so agree - and Lorrainne today going on about women who have ELCS to fit in with their meeting schedules... yeah right

I had 2 sections and am very common and have no life - just a deep routed fear of giving birth to 11lb babies and landing up damaged as both my mother and auntie were..

[KaraStarbuckThrace]

What a load of rubbish
I do know people who had CS and they all had bloody good grounds for doing so.

Absolutely rising CS rates need to be addressed, but it is fuck all to do with "too posh to push!!"

[CrapBag]

YANBU.

I know quite a few women who have had CS, elective or emergency, including me 15 weeks ago. Mine was breech, all the others were for genuine reasons as well.

I have M.E. and looked into having an ELCS for DS 3 years ago but they wouldn't let me, I can't see them doing it unless there is real need for it.

[MilaMae]

It was touch and go that I would get one with my dd (after a twin birth 15 months previous and dd being breech) so I'd love to see how these women just click their fingers and get a c/s on the NHS when they don't actually need one .

[QuoththeRaven]

ive had an emc and a elc. no i didnt think i was too posh to push, i was terrified of what happened to me with my first labour/birth so wanted to control 2nd time round as much as possible. I have never met someone who goes for a c-section because they are too posh or lazy

although my dhs aunt keeps stating that cs are the "easy way out". yes you dont have all the effort of pushing out a baby, but the recovery times a bitch.

[CrapBag]

The thing is, if they are being done for genuine reasons, then how can they tackle the rising rates? It doesn't make sense.

[InAStateOfReflux]

I know I shouldn't but I'm breastfeeding DD and it just happened to be what was on and remote was out of reach!

To fit in with their meeting schedules? Yeah right! "I'll be at the meeting in half an hour, I'm just having a CS, so I will be their soon in a wheelchair, a catheter hanging out my bits and a great gaping wound in my belly, with a cluster feeding dd hanging off my boob". Because having a CS is such an easy and convenient way to have a baby...

[chunkythighs]

I opted for a cs for my ds. I discussed this with the consultant, he in turn told me to go off and research it further. On my next appointment we discussed it further and had my cs! I was so relieved to have my concerns listened to. I could enjoy the rest of the pregnancy then.

I love when stupid people accuse me of being too posh to push- it saves me the bother of wasting any more time with them!

Definitely the most dignifying moment for me was when I was on my back, after the epi looking at one leg being stretched east while the other was going west!!!!

[nethunsreject]

Yep, it's hard enough to get a flippin epidural, let alone a cs!

[SmethwickBelle]

There is much that could be done to manage vaginal births better for sure, but out of the 10 or so people I know who had one, NONE had a CS because of a pressing lunch engagement.

[Lulumama]

the c.s rate and the induction of labour rate are inextricably entwined IMO
and then one c.s can lead to a second or third one due to reasons including fear of birth . it's not as simple as too posh to push and you would be hard pressed to find an NHs consultant who would allow an el c.s 'just because' but tokophobia is a genuine fear and i don't see anything wrong with counselling BUT ultimately if a woman is too fearful, then yes, she should have a c.s, but women need to know pros and cons of both v b and c.s

[knittedbreast]

im sure there are women who choose elc, but probebly those are more likely to be able to pay and so go private.

also how difficult would it be to pretend you had an irrational fear and not just didnt want to push/ i think it would be quite easy to do and they would have a job PROVING you were lieing

[InAStateOfReflux]

CrapBag - with me for instance they told me that it was highly ill advised for me to have a vaginal birth because it had been the trend to automtically offer CSs for breech babies since a paper that came out in 2000 found that CS was the safest way to go. He did admit that that paper has since been highly discredited and criticised and that probably breech vaginal births aren't as dangerous as they first thought, but that now since most of the MWs and younger Drs would have no experience of performing breech vaginal births so because of that it was safer for me to have a CS to ensure the staff would knwo what they were doing! No way was I going to insist on a vaginal birth after that!

Situations like that should be addressed by improving staff training. I would have happily tried a vaginal birth if I had an experienced HCP on hand.

[LordOfTheFlies]

My sister called me stupid to be considering a NVD a couple of weeks before DS was born because childbirth hurts like hell and I should demand a C/Section.

This from the woman who has never been pregnant let alone give birth.But very brave/foolhardy to say that to a very pregnant,hormonal woman!

[whoneedssleepanyway]

I do know one person who had an ELCS because she had such a fear of giving birth that she said she couldn't do it and they agreed to give her a CS, is that too posh to push...

[InAStateOfReflux]

CoffeeDodger - what I was saying is that the media give these things such a stupid slant - I'm sure rising ELCS rates should be addressed - but to peddle the old "too posh to push" line is ridiculous and stupid.

[TattyDevine]

I think those going private and paying are few and far between in terms of the overall amount and probably have little impact on the "rising rates" - most people just dont have that kind of money. You'd have to be absolultely adamant, and have been 100% refused from the NHS as even at the Portland you end up in an NHS hospital if you have a section don't you?

I think the biggest reduction could be made on those who had an emergency section the first time who are opting for an elective section 2nd time round with no medical reason as such (but simply fears of rupture, wanting to stick with what they know, not wanting the worst of both worlds - i.e c-sec scar AND 3rd degree tear, etc, a well as the fear of another emergency section - if I have to have a section, lets make it an elective, kind of thing)

There is big pressure to try for a VBAC in this situation - I know because I've been there. I was undecided which way I wanted to go (and understand all the fears and reasons mentioned in the above paragraph) and was then diagnosed with Placenta Praevia which took the decision away from me, which was fine, really, and it worked out fine for what can be quite a serious and deadly condition.

The emergency rate could probably be reduced with some risk to women and babies - I'm glad at least that they are erring on the side of cautious. I dont want that to change, particularly!

As for too posh to push, well, bullshit. Dont' know anyone. Even the section who are opting for "previous section" as their reason have valid reasons for doing so - and sometimes these are based on medical risk.

[QuoththeRaven]

no thats not too posh whoneeds thats understandable. the option is there, any choice of birth is valid.

[expatinscotland]

I don't know anyone who did this.

YANBU.

[NulliusInVerba]

Actually, although I totally agree with you all that the idea of women booking cs to get to a meeting is beyond ridiculous, I do infact know someone who had a cs for no medical reason.

Didnt want to push baby out and "didnt want my bits being ruined for me and my man".

Wailed and stamped her feet loud enough, got an elsc.

[chunkythighs]

tatty,
why should there be reduction in cs rates if the women want them? I'm not having any more children but I would have NEVER had a vb. I shouldn't have to beg and plead for my chosen birth plan.
How someone choses to give birth is noones business but their own and their consultant. As long as the consultant, mother and baby is fine- whats the issue?

[CrapBag]

I was told I could give birth naturally to my breech DD, The stats were given to me, risk with CS was 2%, 4% for a breech vaginal birth. I decided on ELCS as I had a forceps and 3rd degree tear with DS and was already eligible for an ELCS, but I was going to choose a natural birth again and hope there was no further damage. As it was, DD wouldn't cooperate and I was really glad of my ELCS, so much better than they horrible tear and recovery from DS' birth.