If I gently tell my friend some home-truths

[Nando95]

Hi all, I have a very good friend who is a lovely person. She has 2 children, a baby boy of 4 months and a 4 year old daughter.

Her 4 year old child is in my opinion very controlling, demanding and watchful- she has major tantrums over the slightest thing and the 10 minute journey to nursery often takes more than half an hour due to the childs constant tantrums and refusal to walk.

Her mother walks on egg-shells and has told me that she dreads it if the slightest thing does not go her childs way due to her violent moodswings.

She has told me that she thinks her child is spolit but does not like to discipline her as she gets too upset and her DD gets harder to deal with.

Her daughters behaviour has been like this since she was tiny and in my opinion its partly because she has been given too much control from an early age- i.e-she controlled what her parents ate and whether or not her rain cover went on in torrential rain.

The other day she had an hour long tantrum because someone kindly opened the door for her mum in the shop and she wanted to do it.
Anyway her friends at her nursery including a lot of mutual friends children have started to notice and have started to avoid her- with one child calling her a spolit brat ( which I do not condone btw).
Some of my friends have expressed concerns that they dont like their children being around this child as their children start to copy her ways!

Her mum has said to me that she feels her child is being picked on and has told her child to stick up for herself not realising that the other children/parents are avoiding her because of her behaviour.
I have bitten my tongue until now but feel that maybe I should try to guide her as I have noticed that other parents are beginning to avoid her.

I am not saying that my parenting is perfect but I can see the potentional problems that this may cause my friend and her child!!
Do I say nothing or stick my neck out and try to gently guide her and if so what do I say Help please.

[Pelagia]

I'd say nothing. Your friend has chosen how to parent her DD, its her business. UNLESS she asks for your opinion.

School starts soon anyway, everything changes then...

[BettySwollocksandaCrustyRack]

I would leave it........no one likes their mummy skills criticised and I am sure your friend knows exactly where she is going wrong and you pointing it out to her, not matter how gently, will not be appreciated. Her kid does sound like a nightmare but at that age my DS had some rip roaring tantrums although thankfully at 8 he has grown out of them now!

[BeattieBow]

you say nothing imo. None of your business. Unless she directly asks your opinion and then you tread very carefully.

I have a very difficult daughter (and 2 other ones who are fine). Imo it is often just their characters, rather than being spoilt. Mine is so difficult, even now at 6 she gets very angry over the slightest thing. I would not have appreciated being told that she was a spoilt brat who I should stop giving into. i would have appreciated some concern about how difficult she is and how tiring it can be.

[teachermummy2011]

I second that. It will soon be picked up on at school.

Parents rarely respond well to unsolicited advice, however, well intentioned.

If she's asks however...

[SenoritaViva]

Your friend should be friends with mine (on another thread!)

I agree that as hard as it is to watch (and good to let off steam here) that unless she asks you for your opinion you keep it to yourself.

[worraliberty]

Say nothing, she probably wouldn't believe you anyway.

[corygal]

You're right to notice a problem. But you can't say anything. Even if you dish out the best advice on the planet, your friend won't listen or act on it - she'll overlook your attempts to help and get cross.

If it's any help, once your friend's DD goes to school they will sort it out/put her in SEN/work with the parents to change everyone's behaviour.

[Nando95]

She genuinally seems at the end of her tether and close to tears very often- which is concerning. She does talk about her childs tantrums a lot almost inviting advice. I would never tell her that her child is a spolit brat but if she asks would it be acceptable for me to give her advice about disclipline etc- I am an early years teacher btw!

[JeremyKylesPetProject]

Never give advice that hasn't been asked for. About anything. Ever. She sounds like she's having a tough time of it. Why don't you offer to take her for a couple of hours a week? Being around other adults and kids might help.

[DollyTwat]

Having been on the receiving end of my friends opinion of my children I can tell you that she will not appreciate it.

Offers to help will be.

[FabbyChic]

Tell her why her child is being avoided if she asks.

[Fiddledee]

Do you want to lose a friend? Maybe you can look after the 4 month old for a bit while the mother plays with the 4 year old DD who is probably very put out that she has a baby sibling - maybe they didn't teach you that bit?

[Ormirian]

"The other day she had an hour long tantrum because someone kindly opened the door for her mum in the shop and she wanted to do it"

That would have been DS2. He could get seriously upset over the oddest things - when life didn't pan out as he expected or wanted. It may well be nothing to do with the parenting she received - DS2 was my 3rd child and I had already got 2 DC who weren't like this - but her character.

DS still gets upset about odd things but nothing like as much and is now a delightful little chap.

[Iwasagnome]

Does she watch Supernanny?-perhaps you could bring it up in conversation.

also if your kids misbehave you can model what to do

[kreecherlivesupstairs]

Could you gently try to suggest that her tantrums lead to friendship loss the next time she mentions it?
I found myself in a dreadful situation a couple of years ago. DD had a friend who was a controlling, horrible, selfish bully. She threw DD on the floor and squashed her which meant I had to take her to hospital to check for fractured ribs. Friends mum said that her DD hadn't meant it and wondered aloud why nobody wanted to play with her. I approached it all wrong and told her of my DDs injuries. She refused to believe me and her DD was shunned.

[Ishani]

Talking about it is getting it off her chest not asking for comments/opinons I would say. However if your friend is loosung her support network because of her child I would be tempted to mention that as directly as you like because it's not fair on mum.

[sparkle12mar08]

Say nothing unless she asks your direct opinion. I have a similar situation with a good friend whose 5 year old ds eats like he's a pig at a trough, and plays exceptionally roughly and selfishly with other children. But it's because he's never once been given clear and consistent boundaries and is allowed to get away with murder. And she then wonders why her three year old is going the same way! When our children play together I simply deal with them all the same and if she's got a problem with it then she'll have to speak up. Alternatively I'm hoping she'll learn something from it. I will not have her son stuffing his mouth at my table, so much so that he has hamster cheeks, and then attempting to chew it with his mouth open. Disgusting. I don't let my 5 and 3 year old behave that way and I won't allow hers to either. I will also not allow him to snatch every single toy off the other children and to tease them with them unremarked.

I do like him, although it doesn't sound that way I see. He is bright and funny, but his behaviour stinks on many an occasion. Oh and he treats his mother like a slave. More fool her for putting up with it though.

[in3minds]

It sounds as if your friend initiates conversation about her daughter - worried that she is spoiled, being picked on etc. What do you usually say when she does? There is probably a very gentle way of leading the conversation a little more rather than advising her overtly. I really wouldn't tell her directly people are avoiding her, but maybe prolong the conversation with her about her daughter and she may ask for advice. I've had similar with a friend and her very aggressive, sensitive, screamey dc and I think just asking 'do you feel its difficult to get her to co-operate'? and then saying what has worked for you/your nephew/neighbour/someone in a book might be a way to do it.

[MordechaiVanunu]

Say nothing.

She's obviously stuggling with her DD, and i'm sure realises she's got problems, having this pointed out by a friend will not help and will just create a defensive response from her.

If she asks for an opinion or guidance give it carefully and with lots of reassurance thats its hard to be a mum and you still have high regard for both her and her DD despite any issues. If you do. If you don't, and you think she's a crap mother and her Dd is a nasty nightmare child the friendship is not going to last anyway.

I have a rule I always stick by: I never get involved in criticising my friends children to other people/friends. I may think it, I may say it to DH only (and then feel very guilty) but my real friends it's love them love their kids, as I know it would crush me if my friends spoke nastily about my kids.

and I do have a very close friend with a real problem DD at the moment, but I see my role as supporting my friend, who really needs it, and she needs me to be positive about her DD and be more acceptingof her, as she knows most others are rejecting of her.

I guess it depends how close you are.

[greenlime]

I would say nothing in general. Particularly not about how other parents are feeling.

However, if you are discussing an isolated practical problem, you can suggest a solution. eg I wouldn't tolerate a 4yo refusing to walk to nursery, I'd say "you walk properly or you ride in a buggy". Just isolated pieces of advice like that (perhaps put a bit less bluntly!), rather than criticism of parenting in general.

If she asks for general advice, I'd suggest that she talked to the nursery to see if they could offer any input.

[2posh]

Say nothing. I agree with it being in children's characters. My oldest DD was explosive at 4 and I largely let her get on with it and tried to avoid situations where it would be an issue (and I sympathise with the half hour school journey - my DD even refused point blank to go to school for several months aged 7 until I moved her). She is now 17 and has not given me a moment's worry as a teenager. She still wants to be completely in control (that is her nature) but it is now appropriate: although she hates being told what to do, luckily everything she wants to do is logical and reasonable and she makes good choices. She is confident and independent, as well as kind and thoughtful, and I am proud of her. Incidentally, she has always been popular as her frustration was only ever to do with her wanting control over her OWN life rather than a desire to control others.

From what you have said, your friend's child is not nasty or bullying to other children, just frustrated and unable to express this other than through tantrums. I doubt that that emotional immaturity is down to poor parenting. He/she will grow out of it. In the meantime, offer help and support, not criticism (however constructive you intend it to be).

My other DD was an angel at 2,3,4, 5..... had I had two children like that I might have been judgey too. Don't go there.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

"has told me that she dreads it if the slightest thing does not go her childs way due to her violent moodswings."

If she's already admitting this then I think she is asking you for help, indirectly. You could continue that conversation carefully... 'do you think her violent moodswings are normal?'....'are they worried at school?'....'are you worried that you've lost control of her?' ....'have you thought about asking for help?'.... 'is there anything I can do?' You don't have to wade straight in with a 10-point plan to take stroppy kid in hand. I think she knows the kid is a nightmare and is looking for support.

[Nando95]

As I stated earlier this behaviour has been going on for years and no doubt has escalated since her new sibling has arrived. I only want to guide my friend as she is struggling- I very often look after her children but I will take on board your advice and say nothing but just try to help in every other way I can.

[exoticfruits]

Say nothing. She won't like it and she won't agree!