To think that when OFSTED come and visit a school

[RosieAndGin]

It's a bit convenient to pick the same two days to send all the headstrong naughty children on a team building exercise away from school or do all schools do this?

[QuietTiger]

It's not unheard of...

A particular school I worked in as a teacher, inner-city comp with 18% A-C GCSE pass rate sent 75 of its most disruptive pupils on a weeks "adventure training & team building course". Oddly enough, it was the week OFSTED were in. Oddly enough, the school got good OFSTED results.

Every teacher in the school would tell you what a con it was. It was the only week in the school year where we didn't have to deal with daily physical and verbal abuse, class disruption and we could actually teach a whole lesson.

[moogster1a]

yep. They all hide the naughty ones.
When I worked in a school I was "borrowed" by another school for their OFSTED inspection. They didn't have the requisite number of support staff so I worked there for 3 days pretending I was a permanent member of staff. ( good job they never saw me wandering lost around the corridors!).
Children are also put on "placements"or "work expereinece" to oher schools.

[VictorianIce]

Schools only get about two days notice of Ofsted. How on earth does anyone organise a trip - let alone a residential - in TWO days?

[FreudianSlipOnACrown]

I've always thought you can't tell much from an ofsted report - this confirms that view!

[RosieAndGin]

It's not a residential trip, they are taking hiding them for two day trips.

[janetsplanet]

i remember when DD1 was in junior school. she was on some kind of meds. the school policy was that they could administer the meds OR the parent/carer could go to school to do it.
Her dad walked the 2 mins to school to do the meds and was told that was the last time he could do it, as it was disrupting the class and they had OFSTED in. She needed the meds, so can we be sure the staff would have 'disrupted' the class to give her them

[RosieAndGin]

Ok so it seems that schools do this regularly then, I did think it was a bit off when Dd came home and told me about it. No Dd is not being packed off by the way wonders how she slipped under the radar

[QuietTiger]

Same with us - it wasn't a residential trip it was a 7.30am - 6pm trip to a local adventure training centre.

Trust me, you'd be amazed at what schools can arrange at very short notice.

[RosieAndGin]

Hmm makes you wonder what else they hide.

[Birdsgottafly]

Also, you have to read 'behind' the Ofsted report. I live in an area which is considered 'very disadvantaged' there are alot of social problems. The primary schools do an excellent job given the catchment but this is not reflected in the report. For those pupils whos parents are commited to them and their education, they do really well. The more 'disavantaged' the school is considered the better the funding for sport and IT, so this can be a bonus.

My DD is in SN Ed, when she was in primary her school was moved to an inclusion unit, this pulled down the report and it looked on the outside to be a failing school but again it was excelent.

[RosieAndGin]

Thats a very good point Birdsgottafly I will have a read.

I was just a tad put out that schools would go to those lengths to make them look good, but having read what others have said, it seems what is on an ofsted report and what a school is really like are very different.

[breatheslowly]

Definitely heard of this before. I imagine they have the risk assessments written, ready to go in some sort of Ofsted plan.

I'm not sure I would want a team to be built out of the naughtiest children from any school. If they were really coordinated, imagine the chaos they could create.

[VictorianIce]

I'm in awe really. You'd have to have risk assessments written, and ensure they they could walk or use public transport (so you didn't need to book a coach), and you could get the medical forms in early - although there's a risk there that they wouldn't be up to date. You'd have to have the permission letter written, and get permission slips back the next day! Did school pay for the visits?

I hate organising trips.

[mycarscallednev]

Schools are crafty, my SEN child - only 6 at the time was told 'do NOT talk to anyone' on the OFSTED day. As it was he was ill - so didn't go in. I didn't find this out until I had an OFSTED inspection as a Childminder and my son couldn't sleep for days before and was terrifed of the impending visit. 'Will he talk to me Mummy, don't let him in' - was all I had, until eventually he told me all about it. The school had also sat the children in front of DVD's for four days before the visit - 'to prepare' - if I'd done that as a CM my parents would very rightly be less than impressed. If you have to shut the children up, and then do the paperwork with them out of the way, rather than after school, something is very wrong. The school had a 'satisfactory' in the end, after being 'outstanding' with a previous Head. My son is now Home Educated!

[VictorianIce]

Also, inspectors ask pupils and parents about behaviour. They do notice the discrepancy if kids tell them there is a problem with poor behaviour and they don't actually see any probs during observations.

[Ishani]

The more 'disavantaged' the school is considered the better the funding for sport and IT, so this can be a bonus.

I'm not sure it's worth all the other shit they have to put up with for good IT equipment.

[Birdsgottafly]

Ishani- my point is that the reason one of the school in the area gets a bad Ofstead report is because of non attendance. The school can do little about this most of the families involved are known to SS, it doesnt affected the pupils who turn up. Also very few piupils take part in PE, the ones that do get very good teaching because ther is less of them and good equipment. It is worth properly reading the Ofstead report.

If a child has reasonable ability and good parents they can florish in most schools. I know of schools that say that they don't have a bullying problem and as fra as they are concerned they don't. Any pupils that are getting bullied have to leave the school because the school does nothing, why should they 'they don't have a bullying problem'.

[MangoTango]

It does seem unlikely that schools could do all that in two days VictorianIce. Maybe the trips had already been arranged when OFSTED was announced and it was just a coincidence that they happened at the same time.

[Ishani]

Birdsgotafly, I agree with what you are saying in principal but if your child is sharing a classroom with child who when they do attend have no social skills, behavioral issues then all the lovely PE equipment won't make up for it.
I have seen an incredibly bright child be affected to the point that he failed the 11+ despite supportive parents and good teachers, all done to naughty bullies who will leave school with nothing and go on to lead pointless lives themselves.

[Ishani]

• down to not done to

[Birdsgottafly]

The system is very different in different counties. The 11+ hasn't exsisted where i live for 30 years. The set up of schools is probably also very different to where you live. Thats why you do have to take an active interest and not just take advice on here becauase the advice may not be valid in the area that you live in.

[penguin73]

Common practice. All it takes for a lesson not to be graded as outstanding is for one pupil to be off-target/not behave, regardless of how fantastic the rest of the class/the teacher are and how brilliant the teaching and learning are. So many parents look for outstanding on reports when choosing a school and it is such a competitive thing in some areas that it is not surprising. Anyone that judges a school on the basis of their Ofsted alone is definitely not getting the full picture!

[thebeansmum]

Ishani - I found your most recent comments directed toward Birdsgottafly smug and arrogant - to be perfectly frank. My two DS aged 8 are in a class with a few children with SN, those children are catered for as well as the 'high fliers' you know that have failed - all bright children should do well regardless of the naughty waste of space types (in your eyes) I don't know where you live (11+) but one of 'the naughty bullies who will leave school with nothing bla bla pointless lives bla bla' runs a huge building company and EMPLOYS some of the high fliers he was at school with. Oh, and it's Birsgottafly, not Birdsgotafly - BTW.

[FunnyBumbleBee]

Well, it might be true in other places, but we didn't do it! I teach SEN 'nurture' group in disadvantaged area etc etc... and was watched doing so by Ofsted at 38 weeks pregnant. Teaching a lesson with Ofsted there WAY less stressful than organising a bloody school trip!

P.S. Was outstanding!

[Birdsgottafly]

Thebeansmum-thank you, also secondary schools can easily look to be doing well because they don't allow all of the pupils to sit the GCSE or equivalent exam. The same schools also do not always redirect the pupils elsewhere for training. Not all children can achieve good results, obviously this should be strived for if possible, there are schools aren't seen to be as good as others because of the catchment area or the additional needs of the pupils, they don't 'perform' on a par with others but the school and the staff are doing an excellent job. The new work experience and day release to collage scheme (not available everywhere) is a good alternative for some children but it makes the schools rating drop down on the Ofstead report.