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AIBU?

Very pleased about the Ian Tomlinson verdict

85 replies

marmaladetwatkins · 03/05/2011 22:16

But very surprised. I was expecting them to find in favour of the assaulting police officer.

AIBU to hope that boorish police officers might think twice before acting like a bull in a china shop knowing that the won't necessarily be protected by the law?

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bittersweetvictory · 03/05/2011 22:20

Im pleased about it as well, hes not fit to be a copper, he lied and lied under oath and he had already assulted someone else, i hope it changes things.

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FannyNil · 03/05/2011 22:23

Me too Marmalade. This case has made my blood boil. Being in a heightened state of tension is no excuse to act as that police officer did. From my memory of the video Ian Tomlinson was ambling along with his hands in his pockets when he was struck from behind. The management of policing at demonstrations needs radical overhaul. Kettling... don't get me started!

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marmaladetwatkins · 03/05/2011 22:23

I bloody well hope he faces criminal charges now, too. If he doesn't, the Met will be scooping their integrity from out of the gutter.

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DuelingFanjo · 03/05/2011 22:25

I'm pleased too.

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worraliberty · 03/05/2011 22:25

I'm just glad it was caught on camera for all to see.

Might have been a very different verdict otherwise.

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elliott · 03/05/2011 22:27

Yes, i was surprised (and pleased) too. I think it must have been very obvious to the jury that Patel was incompetent and Harwood was lying.
But you know, if it hadn't been for the footage that conclusively demonstrated that Harwood was lying, he'd have got away with it.

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edam · 03/05/2011 22:30

Quite - the video footage is compelling and without it I'm sure the Met would have got away with blackening the victim's name or even blaming the protestors. Harwood had already assaulted several other people that day, including a BBC camerman he attacked from behind and threw to the ground (the cameraman had no idea what on earth had happened, had no prior warning at all).

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FunnysInTheGarden · 03/05/2011 22:30

hmmm, not pleased really. The police faced a very difficult situation during those protests, and I am rather uneasy to see them vilified in this way. Rather smacks of the whole 'rucksack bomber from Brazil' scenario.

I really do think that the British police do their best and any mistakes they make are pounced upon rather unfairly IMO

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marmaladetwatkins · 03/05/2011 22:30

Worra and elliot you are both totally right (about the video footage) Thank goodness. That poor bloke's family must have been so frustrated and angry as well as grieving. Imagine the anguish if the verdict was different...

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worraliberty · 03/05/2011 22:32

Funnys you won't find anyone more pro British police than me

But what that man did was nasty, unecessary and a total abuse of power

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marmaladetwatkins · 03/05/2011 22:33

I disagree, Fun. Ian Tomlinson had nothing to do with the protests, was walking away from the general melée, hands in pockets, minding his own when he got attacked by that dickhead. The de Menezes case was different in that the poor man made the mistake of not co-operating when asked to stop and hopping over the barrier and running onto the tube train :(

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marmaladetwatkins · 03/05/2011 22:36

Plus, I would say that on the whole I respect the police and trust them to do their job. As with any profession there are a few who shouldn't be in it. The thing about police officers who offend is that they are often protected when the force close ranks.

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elliott · 03/05/2011 22:37

funny, I agree that it is difficult to police protests effectively and safely. But its quite clear from the evidence that was presented to the jury that Harwood was out for a bit of a ruck that day.

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FunnysInTheGarden · 03/05/2011 22:40

OK, I haven't investigated in any depth, but I suppose when the police get blamed for something in a difficult situation, I automatically feel that they are being made the scapegoats.

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marmaladetwatkins · 03/05/2011 22:43

I understand your point but I think Elliott is right; this particular police officer was up for a ruck.

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worraliberty · 03/05/2011 22:46

Funnys Google the video clip and you'll see what we mean (if you haven't seen it)

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millie30 · 03/05/2011 22:47

Funny, it would be more damaging to the police, IMO, if police officers who behaved badly, such as PC Harwood, weren't held accountable for their actions. It's not about scapegoating, but if police are seen to "get away" with things that ordinary members of the public wouldn't, then that just serves to undermine public confidence in the police and makes their job harder. As it is, the time frame has already lapsed for him to face any kind of assault charge, so the least Ian Tomlinson's family deserve is this verdict. It may well be the only justice they get.

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edam · 03/05/2011 22:48

Funnys, Harwood is no scapegoat. He assaulted several people that day and didn't give a toss whether they were injured. He is responsible for his actions and hopefully now will finally have to answer for them.

Marmalade, re. Jean Charles de Menezes, I think you are inadvertently repeating one of the lies the police told to try to justify their appalling fuck-up. I'm pretty sure the inquest verdict was very clear, that he did NOT fail to follow police instructions. There was no instruction, he was not asked to stop. Nor did he jump the gates, that was one of the coppers chasing him. (IIRC the confusion in the control room meant they weren't told to stop him getting on the tube, which you'd think would be a pretty high priority if they had genuinely believed he was dangerous.)) Mr de Menezes was an innocent man who did nothing wrong at all and would have had no idea why people were shooting at him.

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elliott · 03/05/2011 22:49

I followed pretty much all the evidence on the guardian blog (via my iphone app but I imagine it is somewhere online too). key interchanges between the lawyers and Harwood/medical experts were quoted verbatim and a very clear timeline built up of Harwood's and Tomlinson's actions over the critical hour or so.
ACtually this is a very good example of a very thorough, careful investigation into the facts of the case. It only begs the question what the CPS and Attorney General were thinking in dropping the case so readily.

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FunnysInTheGarden · 03/05/2011 22:49

OK, will look into it a bit further. I totally agree that families of any victims ned justice, I just think that the police can be a rather easy target. ie lots of publicity and compensation. Rather like when social workers 'don't do their job'

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worraliberty · 03/05/2011 22:52

Agree 100% Funnys

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worraliberty · 03/05/2011 22:58

For anyone who hasn't seen it..you can clearly see him walking away..hands in pockets...posing no threat.

www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/apr/07/ian-tomlinson-g20-death-video

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FunnysInTheGarden · 03/05/2011 23:03

very interesting worral and puts it in a whole new light for me. Thanks

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MollieO · 03/05/2011 23:08

Evidence was made available to the Coroner that was not provided to the CPS. Not only should Harwood be charged with manslaughter but in addition there should be a separate investigation regarding the withholding of evidence.

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limitedperiodonly · 03/05/2011 23:23

Absolute disgrace.

I agree with Edam about the lies over de Menezes.

I was initially supportive of the Met over the death of Mark Saunders, the drunken barrister shot dead after a siege in Chelsea three years ago.

It's a crowded and tiny area and I thought they had no choice but to safeguard other people.

But then I read of the inquest and the strange evidence of one of the armed officers that seemed to be a game to get as many song titles into the statement as possible.

www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/nov/02/mark-saunders-song-titles

The Met has many fine officers. They don't need these people and if I was a fellow officer I'd feel disgusted they were in the ranks.