to think some people are bloody thoughtless and selfish??

[KaraStarbuckThrace]

DS (3yo) has had minor surgery for a blocked eye duct today. Because it has to be done under a GA, he has had to be fasting since Midnight last night, and no fluids from 7am.
We arrived at the day unit just before 8am. DS didn't get to theatre until 1:15pm, so you can imagine he was both hungry and thirsty and complaining loudly about it.
Around 10am, when there were quite a few children in the waiting area, all fasting, some silly bint attempted to eat a packet of crisps Nurse came and insisted she leave, pointing out the children were fasting and that there was a large sign to say no food and drink allowed in the waiting area. I myself had been sneaking to the kitchen for drinks of water - 33weeks pg and get dehydrated easily, but made sure I was well out of sight of the children).

But worst of all around noon, when DS was really sobbing "I'm hungry" and I was getting upset and talking to the nurse who kept saying "you can put a DVD on for him" I was explaining that no a DVD won't cut it, he is hungry and thirsty but doesn't understand why he can't have anything, some woman sat next to where DS was crying and proceded to start emptying a lunch bag full of snacks to eat
I just turned to her and said "do you mind putting that away my son is already upset!" she immediately got up and the nurse told her where she could go to eat.

But FFS she shouldn't started taking them out in the first place! DH and I had NOTHING with us because DS was fasting and so were other children. When we did get a chance to eat when DS was in theatre we went out of the unit and didn't return until we had eaten!

I just thought what a bloody selfish cow that woman was. And considering her own child would also have been fasting she should have realised the importance of not bringing food into the waiting area

Honestly how I didn't shout and swear at her I don't know but instead I ended up breaking down in tears because DS was soooo upset

[sausagesandmarmelade]

Perhaps she just didn't think...it's not as if she protested or anything.

We are all guilty of not thinking sometimes.

Hope your DS recovers soon...must have been very stressful all round.

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

Thoughtless certainly, I wouldn't say selfish. You are upset because of your DS and it's been stressful today, I'd be the same. Hope he's feeling ok now. Have you lined up some nice tempting snacks for him for when he feels like it?

[anonacfr]

YANBU.

To be fair though it sounded like the woman was just thoughtless rather than selfish. As soon as you told her she went off and had her snack somewhere else.

Funny how some people can't seem to do without food though. You'd think for the sake of a couple of hours they could hold off until their child is in surgery and then get something.

[Insomnia11]

I think it's bloody unreasonable for kids to have to sit there and wait so long for surgery.

[sparkle12mar08]

It was thoughtless I agree, but I also think the emotional stress of seeing your son in hospital and trying to hold it all together for him as well has heightened your reaction. Shouting and swearing at her would have been a silly over reaction, if understandable.

I hope your son is fine now and recovering well, and I also hope that you're getting some support from family and friends too?

[DamnItJanet]

My mum sat next to my dsis who was nil by mouth and drank a can of pop and ate a sandwich, now that was evil.
I think the woman was thoughtless and didn't kick off when asked to move, she probably felt bad aswell.
Hope your ds is ok.

[KaraStarbuckThrace]

Thank you, he is doing okay, he is sacked out on the sofa, eating toast!

I maintain it was selfish - being unselfish means you think of others and she clearly only thought of herself, there were plenty of signs up to say that no food or drink was allowed, and one woman had already been asked to leave for getting out a packet of crisps.

And I agree, if I could manage to do without food for that length of time despite being 33 weeks pg and ravenously hungry, I am sure other people can!

[compo]

I think that's awful
I would have thought kids would go to surgery first thing your poor ds I hope he's ok and he's having his favourite tea tonight!

[KaraStarbuckThrace]

Insomnia - that is a whole 'nother thread, the wait time! Unfortunately 2 other children went to theatre before DS and their surgeries took longer than anticipated. That couldn't be helped, unfortunately :(

[compo]

Croosed posts oops
glad he's hope safe and sound

[Tee2072]

I can't believe they made him wait that long! I'd be making a formal complaint about that.

And yes, YANBU. She was a self centred person.

[springbokdoc]

Tee it sounds like it is a paediatric list so as she explained two children's cases took longer. There is not much that can be done about that! I could understand if it was a mixed adult/paeds list but you can't always control how long an op takes.

[KaraStarbuckThrace]

MD - if she was diabetic I am sure she would have explained that to the nurse who would have advised her to either get something from the kitchen or where she could go to get something. She still shouldn't have been attempting to eat in the waiting area.

[MaisyMooCow]

Some people just really don't think do they.

YANBU, very insensitive of her.

Hope DS is feeling better :)

[SauvignonBlanche]

Your DS did not have to be starved from midnight, starvation time guidelines are 6 hours for food and 2 hours for water.
Sounds as if the hospital's system was at fault as well as the lady being thoughtless.

[ShinyMoonInAPurpleSky]

I think eating in front of an adult who is nil by mouth and understands why is ok but to do it in front of a child or baby is insensitive and really quite stupid.

Even if she was diabetic she could have gone elsewhere for a few minutes.

[KaraStarbuckThrace]

Savignon - we're already planning to put together a formal letter of complaint.

[SauvignonBlanche]

Good - sounds like it's needed. The experience is stressful enough, it does not need to be made worse.

[KaraStarbuckThrace]

I know, I hope by doing so they can change procedure to make it a lot easier for other parents in the future!

[reelingintheyears]

Thoughtless....

But they/Hospitals shouldn't make children wait so long.

Six hours since he'd had a drink and even longer since eating is not reasonable for small children.

[StayingDavidTennantsGirl]

Reeling - if the OP's child had gone in first, some other child would have had to wait longer - as she said, two other children went in ahead of her ds, and their operations took longer than expected.

I used to be an operating theatre nurse, and I can assure you that we don't make children wait longer than neccessary on purpose. With the best will in the world, sometimes operations take longer than even we and the surgeons expect - and we know that this impacts on patients who are on the list later on - but without crystal balls, there's not a lot we can do to prevent unexpected problems from cropping up.

If it had been a mixed adult/paediatric list, then I am pretty much sure that the children would have been done first, and often they try to do younger children before older ones too. When my 4-year-old ds was going in to have minor surgery under anaesthetic, as the youngest patient on the list, he was due to go down first. He didn't, because dh interpreted 'a small drink of water at 6am' to mean a drink of anything, and gave him milk, to nourish him through the morning - and the anaesthetist decided to wait until 12md to do ds's op.

[hmc]

All this - "the woman was thoughtless not selfish". To me thoughtless and selfish are pretty much the same thing. I find most people...generally...disappointing . Thoughtlessness is endemic

[gasman]

Managing fasting on operating lists can be really challenging.

Assuming that kara's son was initially scheduled to go to theatre in the morning (but was delayed due to over running preceeding cases) he couldn't really have had breakfast because as someone else has already said you have to fast from food for 6hrs... I'm assuming you wouldn't advocate waking a toddler up at 3am for a quick snack before their operation.

With regards to fluids - it is 2 hours for clear fluid (ie water/ squash). Depending on the time of arrival in hospital and the way the list initially looked then it might have been possible for him to get a drink when they first arrived on day case but the anaesthetist may well have been anticipating that he would be in theatre within the two hour time period.

The list would then start. Say case one over runs. Anaesthetist would look at list and what is coming next and think... hmm, well that won't take two hours, still no time for a drink.

Then case two unexpectedly overruns and voila you have a child who is technically overfasted but merely by dint of unexpected delays.

The converse is that sometimes anaesthetic staff will give kids a drink anticipating that a case will take longer than two hours, it then doesn't and the kid who got the drink misses their slot on the list and has to wait even longer.

It is very difficult to deal with as a parent especially when it is your child that is distressed but can I just make a plea on behalf of hospital staff. Not everyone can be first on an all day operating list and in fact - shock horror -someone actually has to be last! If your kid is having some thing done in a children's hospital/ on an exclusive paediatric list then that someone might be them.

The other issue that I often see is children arriving for afternoon operating lists who are told that they can have a light breakfast before 8am. It is not infrequent to discover that the parents didn't give them breakfast. A variety of reasons are given for this but I have to say I struggle to be sympathetic when those parents kick of that their child is tired and hungry - erm that will be because you didn't follow the written and verbal instructions that were given to you.

Fasting rules exist to make anaesthesia safer and I will cancel cases if I think they haven't fasted appropriately.