this vituperation reserved for young parents

[MitchiestInge]

for young mothers I suppose is what I mean, since people often only mention the father as a bit of an afterthought. Can someone explain why this special scorn is saved for young and unmarried women, particularly when plenty of us here have reproduced within really quite grim marriages?

[mmsmum]

No idea, I've only ever been on the receiving end

No one ever stops to think about DD's Dad who fucked off, the same people that me and think I'm shit will meet ex and think he's great. Great isn't it

[MillyR]

Well I've always thought it was about envy, and have said so many times before. The other thread running now about the 16 year old is a very good illustration of that. There isn't any point being envious of fathers because they haven't got a ticking biological clock.

[GypsyMoth]

I think it's because people assume they are on benefits.

[MitchiestInge]

aren't loads of people on benefits now though? Or claiming tax relief at least

hadn't thought it might be fertility envy, interesting

[BertieBasset]

I think you are right Tiffany but people don't always stop to think that if the single mum is on benefits that there may well be a dad around somewhere who has absolved all financial responsibilty.

[GypsyMoth]

Some People of a certain generation believe that the 'mum' didn't try hard enough to hang onto her man! ( I.e didn't behave like a 1950's houswife and accept the odd slap) hence hum moving on. It's rubbish I know. Total rubbish

My grans friend was very vocal about this!

[Deliainthemaking]

Its just ignorance

my mum dad grew up in marred families - DV

I grew up in a married family-DV

im unmarried so far no DV it doesnt always equal good stable enviroment

[GeekCool]

I think the Media play a part in with the shock horror stories of teenage pregnancies (yes I know it can be shocking). Not sure how dirty a word 'misogynistic' is on this site, but I reckon that plays a fair part too.

[insertfunnynicknamehere]

My mum still harbours the idea that my sister needs to "win back" her childs father who left a great big hole in the wall when he ran off and left her when she said she was pregnant...my mum thinks if she had just been nicer or more understanding of his needs then he would have stayed...

Even know she tells my sister to find him, not for my niece but so my sister isnt alone. She was 17 when she was pregnant she is 40 now.. let it go ma!

My sister was treated like the local harlot when she was pregnant, nothing said about him of course, she is lucky she had 3 big saucy sisters to sort out the neighbours!

[Mahraih]

DP and I are together, but when I take DS out I do get some 'looks'.

I know exactly what they think - 'young black woman, unmarried, pushing a baby in London. Doesn't work, on benefits."

It's ignorance. Yes I am 22, black (mixed race, actually) and unmarried, pushing a baby in London. But I'm also on mat leave from a good job and went to Cambridge!

When I was pg and commuting to work in the morning, a man (drunk, I think, from the smell of him) started shouting at me about how he was paying for me to have kids and I should 'go back where I came from' (assume he didn't mean Wiltshire, eh) ... It just pisses me off to think that people assume they are paying for me to have a child, because they certainly aren't.

So yes, ignorance.

[mmsmum]

Well if it is the benefits what kids of benefits do people think mums get?

I was on a course about a year and a half ago and ended up in years over the way I was treated by a group of 'women' on the course with me. I say 'women' because they ages from 24 to 28 but acted like kids

I spoke to a course tutor at the end and asked if it was me, she said no, it's jealousy

But I do think one of them thought I was on benefits and that benefits got me the house I live in and the car I was drive, as she made remarks about people on benefits within earshot as often as she could, but being thick I missed the point usually.

Jealousy? Jealous of what lol It's bloody hard being a lone parent never mind a young lone parent and other people's attitudes make it even harder

[mmsmum]

years = tears

so many mistakes sorry!

[mmsmum]

Isn't it funny how it doesn't change though

At 19/20 with a baby I was scum, at 30-ish with an older child I'm still scum to some people

[barmbrack]

I have to admit I am a bit judgy about very young mothers. It so often seems like they haven't really thought it through; either it is an 'accident' with someone they have been with a short time, or they have a false idea that having a baby will somehow solve all their problems, give them someone to love etc. Whereas the reality is that having a child at 14, 15 or 16 actually means you cannot support it yourself, and have cut off your chance of a decent education before you start to raise a family. I just feel like if you are not responsible enough to consider getting a decent home / job / education before starting a family, then you probably shouldn't start one.

[MillyR]

I would prefer my children to have children while still in education. It is often disruptive to your career to have children while at work, while studying and childrearing is easier to organise. Many women are sacked for getting pregnant or have their careers damaged by their employers in other ways. It is sad and illegal, but it is the reality for many women. It is also easier to spend some time as a SAHP if you are in education, and then fit back into work at the start of your career. It is more difficult to get back into work if you take time out mid career.

I am sure my children will make their own decisions, and I will support them and their children in every way I can, regardless of how old they are when they have children of their own.

[SequinsAndSparkles]

barmbrack your post is just full of generalisations. There are plenty of brilliant mums who are only 16, some of them better than first time mums who are in their 30s. FWIW my mum had me at 16, my biological dad left and I have never met him in my life. She stayed at home with me until I started full time nursery at 3 and a half, she then went to college, university and is now a teacher and a very good one at that. And she's always been a fantastic mother, always. Age is not always relevent.

[fleecythrow]

I was 19 when I had DS. I was on benefits when he was first born and I did get a council house so I fit all the typical stereotypes of the teenage mum - though I returned to university when he was young.

I have to say that I never experienced much scorn directly, although I'm sure much of it went on behind my back. Probably the worst were the middle-class girls at university, who thought it was a waste of my life to not have an abortion and that I should have spent my twenties like them, getting drunk, partying and getting on the graduate job ladder.

I have put a lot of it down to jealousy as a lot of them are now struggling more than I am, since I still have a council house with low rent and they're having to rent privately with no hope of buying. I'm 32 now and all of them would love to start a family but can't, due to the fear of falling off the job ladder, not meeting the right man due to such long working hours, and not having the right housing.

[LaWeasel]

The point is though who and why they got pregnant is totally irrelevant compared to how they parent, and being treated negatively isn't going to encourage them to get out and about with their child or into a job.

So you are punishing people and their children for the rest of their lives for a mistake they made when they were sixteen.

It's just pointless and horrible.

Children who have babies before they're 16 don't get any benefits anyway do they? Sometimes their parents can claim a bit but not the girl.

It also makes me very cross to see people put all the blame on the girl. No man no baby.

[KaraStarbuckThrace]

YANBU Mitchy - plenty of older people who are shite parents. It is not always to do with age whether someone is going to be a good parent or not but some people are willing to judge first

[Nagoo]

I agree that a bit of it is envy, since a lot of us 'waited' until everything is right, and sometimes that means too late.
But it is more than that, it is the fact that by having a child a 16, they've been feckless, since we could have done that, but didn't. we were sensible, waiting until everything was right. It's not fair then that life can work out perfectly ok for someone who didn't wait, didn't play by the rules.

[SequinsAndSparkles]

That's exactly my point too Kara..there are plenty of mums in their 30's, with nice houses and good jobs who are rubbish parents. When it comes down to parenting skills, age doesn't necessarily count for much.

I am also quite a young mum, I had DD at 19. Simiarly to FleecyThrow not much was said to my face, but I'm sure there were murmurs behind my back. Probable assumptions I was living on benefits etc, but we haven't. All we have ever had is tax credits, DH knuckled down at uni when we found out I was pregnant, he graduated and managed to find a good job in advertising. I am studying too and I am doing part time work. And the way I see it, we have the rest of our lives now to concentrate on our careers and education.

[SequinsAndSparkles]

Nagoo but the point is, there are no 'rules'. Perhaps they are the modern day 'rules', but it wasn't always this way.