to think men seem to have taken to MN in their droves recently......and I don't like it

(815 Posts)
LadyBlaBlah Fri 14-Jan-11 13:33:11

Every thread I go on, there are men putting forward their opinion

I have enough of men in RL. AIBU thinking they should bog off to DN or go play the X Box or something?

<disclaimer: UQD, Beta, Pan are exceptions to the rules cos they know the MN rules>

NigellaPleasePollockWithMe Fri 14-Jan-11 13:34:48

YABU - it's a parenting forum By Parents For Parents

AbsofCroissant Fri 14-Jan-11 13:34:53

Really? Those are the only ones I've seen, apart from a brief appearance by Darren from MNHQ, but he ran away in FEAR after Hully started lusting after him. In fact, I bet he's probably resigned and sworn off women.

GetOrfMoiLand Fri 14-Jan-11 13:36:04

I don't know any who are blokes, apart from UQD and Beta - and they are both lovely.

I don't really notice an influx of regular male posters tbh.

OTheHugeManatee Fri 14-Jan-11 13:36:22

YABU. That's called sexism. I don't like sexism whichever gender is at the sharp end.

mutznutz Fri 14-Jan-11 13:36:27

Yes you are being unreasonable.

Without Men's input here I think things are far too one sided in general.

LadyBlaBlah Fri 14-Jan-11 13:36:42

Yes, parenting bla bla bla

It's called Mumsnet

LadyBlaBlah Fri 14-Jan-11 13:37:25

Are you a man mutznutz?

Well, they're a bit like pheasants, most of them. They go wandering and clucking over to Feminism and get run over and squashed.

AbsofCroissant Fri 14-Jan-11 13:39:11

Yes, it is called Mumsnet but - there are tons of people who post on here (myself included) who are not mums.

There are nannies, aunts (I fall under that category), hairy truckers, childminders, fathers, step fathers, step mothers ... all sorts.

Yes, there is an argument to have it just for "mums" but:
a) that would make me miserable as I'd have to leave or start TTCing, and
b) it would be much less interesting.

missmehalia Fri 14-Jan-11 13:40:56

Yes, I have no issue with men being on here. However, I think the overall name of this website hardly applies these days. I got slated once for pointing out something similar. There are all kinds of people on here that aren't even parents.

It is a public forum, and as such anyone who wants to can come on here (if they're weird enough to want to, iyswim. Personally, I'd have no interest in being on here unless I was a parent or at the very least worked with under 18s..)

NigellaPleasePollockWithMe Fri 14-Jan-11 13:41:38

never been on Feminism - thanks for the tip grin

missmehalia Fri 14-Jan-11 13:42:01

Love your comment, Beer... grin

I'm not a mum, shall I fuck off too?

AbsofCroissant Fri 14-Jan-11 13:43:07

<<links arms with Trillian>>

I wouldn't say they are here in droves, I am here reading quite a lot and am aware of UQD and Beta (not Pan tho) and I know my DH is floating around somewhere but we don't tend to be on the same threads. I like their input, it gives a different perspective however sometimes you wouldn't even know they were men from their replies, not all conversations have to be dicated by gender.

CatIsSleepy Fri 14-Jan-11 13:43:39

i think your point about knowing the MN rules is the nub

i don't really care what sex a poster is (although I would like to know, for some reason).

mayorquimby Fri 14-Jan-11 13:44:05

deal with it.
The Common Man [worship emoticon]

AbsofCroissant Fri 14-Jan-11 13:44:46

<<sings>>

we shall not be mooooooooved, we shall not be moooooooooooooved (to the tune of "we shall overcome")

I am glad there are men on here. It is good to get a different father's perspective on things as I only get DH's otherwise.

All the male posters I have come across have been very helpful,kind and funny.

LadyBlaBlah Fri 14-Jan-11 13:45:08

OK, I adhere, it's not the mum thing, it's the woman thing. I like a place where men don't change the tone. I like it when men come to the feminism section and repeat their misogynistic arguments. They only last a thread.

I just like it being women talking.

I like it being people talking.

NigellaPleasePollockWithMe Fri 14-Jan-11 13:47:07

Pretty narrow view of the world - so you don't want to talk to 50% of the population?

CatIsSleepy Fri 14-Jan-11 13:48:32

i don't think men change the tone here do they? or have they and I haven't noticed?

thumbdabwitch Fri 14-Jan-11 13:49:23

Most of the men here are fine (until you get them started on Religion or Politics, but that goes for many of the women as well). wink

I haven't noticed a mass influx of new men - the only ones that have been Extremely Annoying have been mostly dealt with, I believe, as trollish types. And I hope they stay away because we definitely don't need their kind of input on sensitive topics.

However - I haven't in general noticed the men tramping on the female tone; if anything, you hardly know that some of them are men.

So - YABU.

LadyBlaBlah Fri 14-Jan-11 13:49:57

I talk to men all the time

I hear men's views on most things all the time.

You get to hear women's views in a very different way on here than you do in RL. I like that. Men on here change it.

Blu Fri 14-Jan-11 13:51:01

It's the EastEnders coverage.

thumbdabwitch Fri 14-Jan-11 13:52:12

I don't believe that at all! The men are heavily outnumbered on here, and although they are perfectly entitled to both hold and express their opinion, the women are just as entitled to jump on it from a great height! (and quite often do).

I don't like your implication that men should not be allowed to put forward their opinion on this forum - their input is often just as useful and valuable as any other poster.

CatIsSleepy Fri 14-Jan-11 13:52:29

i think the men that stay tend to fit in with the MN vibe

so they don't change anything

and i think there are probably plenty of threads with no male input at all

tbh i think i know where you are coming from, but i don't think it's as big a problem as you think it is

wukter Fri 14-Jan-11 13:53:03

Nah - it's still overwhelmingly female, with a female tone. We can take a few good men.

NigellaPleasePollockWithMe Fri 14-Jan-11 13:54:09

BlahBlah - if women tell it different here than in RL then maybe the same applies to men? It's going to be predominately women here so a male input would be less so - since I'm sure there are far mmore female than male users of the site.

seaweedhead Fri 14-Jan-11 13:54:21

YABVVVU.
1. I've not noticed an influx of men.
2. Its nice to have a male point of view sometimes. As long as they behave themselves then they're welcome IMO. I wish there were more men on here.

CaptainNancy Fri 14-Jan-11 13:56:18

How long have you been on here LadyBlaBlah? We have argued this to death before...

Would you rather male posters pretended to be female?

NigellaPleasePollockWithMe Fri 14-Jan-11 13:57:30

You never know for sure anyway - its an internet forum unless we do online showing us neiked as we type wink

thumbdabwitch Fri 14-Jan-11 13:58:27

Are there any men on Netmums?

<<whistles innocently>>

LadyBlaBlah Fri 14-Jan-11 13:58:58

OOooooo not more men no - why??

I have been here far too long - about 7 years blush under various names and with varying intensity. I have seen the threads before.

I just see more than usual at the moment - maybe influx might be pushing it, I concur.

<mourns the lost of Dazza>

Damn that Hully!

LadyBlaBlah Fri 14-Jan-11 13:59:48

I think they do pretend to be female

cestlavie Fri 14-Jan-11 14:02:11

Well yes, as Nigella says, maybe there's more of us guys than you might realise... maybe that helpful advice you were getting might have just been from a dad rather than a mum without him broadcasting it! smile

In answer to the OP though, I've been on here for about 5 years now and haven't noticed many more guys (obviously) around than before. I imagine if there were any ones in particular troubling the 'core' female group on here, simply directing them to the Feminism section would see them being squished fairly sharpish...

toddlerwrangler Fri 14-Jan-11 14:02:13

One of the things I really dislike about MN is the 'anti men' vibe that so aften starts to come through

I just like having a laugh with anyone who appreciates the merits of chocltae buttons.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NigellaPleasePollockWithMe Fri 14-Jan-11 14:04:11

How do you know - do they sometimes let slip a faux pas about their DW when it should be DH?

Should all male poster be highlighted in blue and women in pink to make it clear - then you can see the bias going on?

ChickensFlyingUnderTheRadar Fri 14-Jan-11 14:06:22

I like men <rubs thighs in Vic and Bob stylee>

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SexyDomesticatedDad Fri 14-Jan-11 14:13:36

Upfront - but will go back under cover in a mo.....

Mymblesson Fri 14-Jan-11 14:14:11

I've only just joined and I think this is an amazing place. We have a little boy aged 4 and the parenting advice has been excellent; though I haven't posted anything there myself yet, as there's so much to read through to start with and I have no urgent problems childcare-wise I need advice with.

thumbdabwitch Fri 14-Jan-11 14:14:47

cestlavie - I never realised you were a man! shock - and that's NOT because you were masquerading, it's just not as obvious as with some male posters.

NigellaPleasePollockWithMe Fri 14-Jan-11 14:16:33

Dons apron - back under cover.

SarahStrattonsBaubles Fri 14-Jan-11 14:18:12

<rubs thighs with Chickens>

I can't see a problem with men posting on here. I've learned loads of parenting stuff and am saving it up to irritate the DDs use on the grandchildren if I get any. I can't see why men shouldn't benefit as much.

And their POV is good to have sometimes.

<wondering if if it should be NigellaPleaseColinWithMe>

UnquietDad Fri 14-Jan-11 14:21:38

We could do with more of us here, to be honest. Some women moan on the one hand that men don't take enough of an active role in discussions about parenting - so that's a bit difficult to square with saying you don't want us here either.

cestlavie Fri 14-Jan-11 14:23:26

Um, thanks thumdabwitch. I wonder if that's a good or bad thing!

ChickensFlyingUnderTheRadar Fri 14-Jan-11 14:25:12

Ooh, cest! You're a boy! I did not know that <directs thigh rubbing in cestlavie's direction, adopts leer>

MrSpoc Fri 14-Jan-11 14:25:54

YABVVVVVU - Although the name says Mumsnet, i thought it was for Parents by Parents, or have i got this wrong?

I came on here recently for advice and I had some excellent responses. It has really helped me out looking at things from myu wifes POV.

Should i leave now?

Im glad that i do not come across any sexist women like you in RL.

thumbdabwitch Fri 14-Jan-11 14:26:39

I don't think it's particularly either, cestlavie - more of a commentary on my inability to tell the male from the female unless it's explicitly stated in their name or they have a public profile!

I'd just like to say that I think MIFLAW is a very useful contributor on any threads to do with alcoholism as well. And Retiredgoth was a good egg who barely posts any more.

thumbdabwitch Fri 14-Jan-11 14:27:35

MrSpoc! Stay! (but perhaps steer clear of the feminism board)

LadyBlaBlah Fri 14-Jan-11 14:30:13

Oh don't play the sexist card MrSpoc. Men don't suffer sexism to any significant degree in their lives whereas women suffer it on an hourly basis.

MrSpoc Fri 14-Jan-11 14:31:03

Thanks thumbdabwitch, i have not gone over there yet (too scared to look). but this site is excellent in the fact that you get a real peak into the complex minds of women. (and they are even more complex than I first thought lol).

ILoveItWhenYouCallMeBoo Fri 14-Jan-11 14:31:30

yabu

i like to hear opinions from all sorts of people, grannies, uncles, dads etc

the only think i think a non-mum would be unqualifid to give me their opinion on is the pain of childbirth and TBH i don't tend to discuss that evry often wink

all are welcome her as far as i am concerned. aslong as we all play by teh rules, no-one gets hurt.

MrSpoc Fri 14-Jan-11 14:31:49

of course LadyBlaBlah, you would know with an attitude like yours.

NigellaPleasePollockWithMe Fri 14-Jan-11 14:34:54

MrSpoc - go give her the mind meld and see what's going on in there.

Heroine Fri 14-Jan-11 14:39:33

I think men find it because they are searching for bumsnet

StuartDTB Fri 14-Jan-11 14:41:23

I think mem on this site is a good thing. Not only does educate them on issues mothers are having but some of them might also be the same for them. I was a single parent of 2 young children for a while so I think I am no different than a single mum (apart from the physical). I think LadyBlaBlah has a point but what your after you won't get on the internet, perhaps there is a local womens only club you could go to. This is the internet after all, a place where race, sex and religion all mix in one big pot.

LadyBlaBlah Fri 14-Jan-11 14:43:33

I know, MrSpoc, how very dare I have an attitude

Are you saying that women don't experience sexism or that men experience it to the same degree?

moondog Fri 14-Jan-11 14:44:30

I'm frankly not surprised you started this, Blahblahblaaaaaaah

You only like hearing others echo back your own opinion.

hmm

LadyBlaBlah Fri 14-Jan-11 14:45:33

your input as invaluable as ever Moondog

moondog Fri 14-Jan-11 14:46:07

I'm glad you appreciate it.
I aim to inform and educate the masses.

LadyBlaBlah Fri 14-Jan-11 14:47:44

Oh I have learnt nothing from you, I can assure you of that

southeastastra Fri 14-Jan-11 14:48:15

i'm a man

DameShirleyKnot Fri 14-Jan-11 14:49:10

<strides about>

ChickensFlyingUnderTheRadar Fri 14-Jan-11 14:49:44

Well, helloooooo astra....<encompasses astra in thigh rubbing and leering>

You seem terribly angry Lady. I don't think MrSpoc was commenting for his entire gender. I know I rarely do.

thumbdabwitch Fri 14-Jan-11 14:51:51

Oh God, now I can't remember whether or not I knew SEA was a man either - I don't think I did! See, just incompetence on my part.

lonelyperson Fri 14-Jan-11 14:52:03

I am a bloke .... would you prefer it if I buggered off?

DameShirleyKnot Fri 14-Jan-11 14:53:48

well lonelyperson, you did just make me do a snort on another thread. But I think you might be a right troll.

MrSpoc Fri 14-Jan-11 14:53:59

LadyBlaBlah - I'm saying that may be your experiencing it more because of that attitude and the way you come across.

I grow up in a house with 4 sisters and my mum. I am very comfortable in a female environment.
Are you trying to tell me that women are never sexist towards men? Pull the other one.
--

GetOrfMoiLand Fri 14-Jan-11 14:54:59

GabbyLogon is a bloke as well.

he is nuts, mind.

cestlavie Fri 14-Jan-11 14:55:01

You know, this reminds me of that Terry Pratchett book "Monstrous Regiment" where all the hard-bitten male soldiers turn out one at a time to be women.... only in reverse...

NigellaPleasePollockWithMe Fri 14-Jan-11 14:56:13

How do you actually know - it could be a double bluff as those posts are very nuts!

stillbobbysgirl Fri 14-Jan-11 14:56:40

I don't mind the men being on here generally, the ones I don't appreciate are the ones who respond to a innocent remark you have made by PM'ing you with their VERY sick insinuation about it (ie; insinuating that my dad is a peodophile). That one freaked me out so much I actually cried and couldn't come near hear for a little while.

You know who you are, WANKER.

DameShirleyKnot Fri 14-Jan-11 14:57:24

aw GabbyLoggon is deffo a man. I've met him in RL.

LadyBlaBlah Fri 14-Jan-11 14:57:53

Chickens - you call me angry, yet it was MrSpoc who said "I am glad I don't come across any sexist women like you in real life" which was a little erm, angry. He then accused me of having an attitude <pffft>

Weird that only I get pulled up for being angry

Is it cos i is a woman?

LadyBlaBlah Fri 14-Jan-11 14:59:13

"Are you trying to tell me that women are never sexist towards men? Pull the other one"

Why don't you start that as a thread over in Feminism?

It would be a great discussion

There are far too many women on here grin

LadyBlaBlah Fri 14-Jan-11 15:01:31

And the irony of this thread being that it is now full of blokes

NigellaPleasePollockWithMe Fri 14-Jan-11 15:02:29

Be careful what you wish for then...

MrSpoc Fri 14-Jan-11 15:02:35

So LadyBlablah are you confirming that women are never sexist towards men?

I think you will find both sexes can be.

Truckulente Fri 14-Jan-11 15:03:09

Come over to Dadsnet, you can do the washing up while we talk about football.

MrSpoc Fri 14-Jan-11 15:04:42

My wife knows more about football than me, ill send her over instead.

ha ha ;-) anyone want to polish my Airhorn?

ChickensFlyingUnderTheRadar Fri 14-Jan-11 15:05:04

Yes, Lady. I am always sexist against women. I can't help myself. Bloody women. And I leer at men, which is also sexist I suppose <ponders> So I guess I'm an equal opportunity type.

giyadas Fri 14-Jan-11 15:05:41

YANBU. But could easily have predicted some of the responses you would get. wah , those sexist women hmm

thumbdabwitch Fri 14-Jan-11 15:07:35

cestlavie - well spotted! (good book, that).

BeenBeta Fri 14-Jan-11 15:08:04

There certainly has been a rush of blokes recently onto MN. I'd say its easily risen to 30 or so from a much more manageable 20 in just six short months. grin

SarahStrattonsBaubles Fri 14-Jan-11 15:12:09

<likes the idea of equal opportunity sexism>

<sits and leers>

MrSpoc Fri 14-Jan-11 15:12:18

Hi BeenBeta how would you like to manage us men? Suppose we could set up a roat system. (Can i have fridays as they seem more entertaining)?

I think Gabby Loggon is not a man or a woman but a computer.

GetOrfMoiLand Fri 14-Jan-11 15:17:41

lol at sits and leers

Beenbeta, make me a cup of tea, there's a love <feet up on desk>

2shoes Fri 14-Jan-11 15:19:21

yabu one of my fav mumsnetters is a man

southeastastra Fri 14-Jan-11 15:19:36

i'm a man and a computer

PervyMcTrollFace Fri 14-Jan-11 15:21:04

<pretends to be a man to join in the fun>

<lurches leering around the thread>

<stares down BeenBeta's man cleavage>

Hullygully Fri 14-Jan-11 15:21:48

Where are the men? Have they got Dazz?

OTheHugeManatee Fri 14-Jan-11 15:22:56

PervyMcTrollFace has eaten them all.

Even Daz, I'm afraid. sad

SexyDomesticatedDab Fri 14-Jan-11 15:23:23

All the women should name change to men and vice versa just to really annoy the OP

Hullygully Fri 14-Jan-11 15:24:57

Oh well. Old Dazz turned out to be a bit dull in the end. Or else Helen threatened him.

Who else you got MNHQ?

SexyDomesticatedDab Fri 14-Jan-11 15:26:54

GOML - here's your tea, sorry for the pregnant pause whilst it was being sorted out - and a nice big fat slice of chocolate cake too.

BeenBeta Fri 14-Jan-11 15:27:49

MrSpoc - I suppose we could each do designated days or specific topics. Maybe even some well organised man-to-woman marking might work or contentious threads. Personally, I prefer to do floating cover late evening early hours of the morning but only on particular topics mind.

Newbie blokes would have to do the unpopular early morning shifts and learn the ropes in Feminism for a bit. We'd need a shop steward. Probably UQD - he reads the Guardian so he knows all about collective action. grin

MargaretGraceBondfield Fri 14-Jan-11 15:28:32

If you don't notice that they're men then I think it's great!

OTheHugeMan Fri 14-Jan-11 15:29:03

Domesticated

Righty-oh!

<admires newly-acquired meat and two veg>

DameShirleyKnot Fri 14-Jan-11 15:29:04

Who was that bloke who coined the phrase "sausaged the back out of her" (or something similar. I liked him, he was weird funny.

@sexydomesticateddab ......... don't think we need to do anything to annoy OP ..... she appears to have her knickers in a knot in any case

Butkin Fri 14-Jan-11 15:30:30

Been mooching around here for nearly 8 years (when DD was born) and no intention of leaving but don't ever go near Feminism!

OTheHugeMan Fri 14-Jan-11 15:30:44

Shouldn't that be 'boxers bunched up'?

Trill Agree totally. I have made the same observations myself before It's the endless spew of information - you can almost see the dot matrix printer whirring away <shows age>

DameShirley Really? <facinated to the point of rudeness face>

Oh, and men are fine by me. I mostly don't notice apart from the obvious ones. And some of the best advice i got on here was from a man.

<turns back to DameShirley with interested face on>

SexyDomesticatedDab Fri 14-Jan-11 15:32:44

I was once accused of being a hairy fisted truck driver in some shed too once - seems you got there before me.

MittzyBittzyTeenyWeeny Fri 14-Jan-11 15:33:08

'Well, they're a bit like pheasants, most of them. They go wandering and clucking over to Feminism and get run over and squashed'

That made me chuckle.

I don't like sexism of any kind.

<shrug> about the gender of any poster. If they make a valuable contribution whether it funny, challenging, supportive, advocatial or generally just amenable chatty it matters not.

I am personally a little more reserved about certain things if I am aware of men on a thread but that is my issue, not because I find them offensive.

I have as well got some fantastic advice from a man here. They're all welcome, apart from the trolls, as far as I am concerned.

southeastastra Fri 14-Jan-11 15:34:59

i'm now worried everyone will think i'm a man grin

lifeinCrimbo Fri 14-Jan-11 15:36:00

Oh Ladyblablah, I know exactly what you mean.

For example, this charming reply I got from so called "niceguy"

"I can summarise for him. You are wrong. He is right.
Is that concise enough for you?"

So rude! The previous poster had written a post that was 2 pages long. Thats a problem with some men in real life, they like the sound of their own voice too much.grin
Although it was funny that "niceguy" identified the long winded poster as male!

So, while some men that post on here make interesting contributions to the debate, others are rather unpleasant.

OTheHugeMan Fri 14-Jan-11 15:36:08

Well, you did say you were one, Astra.

lemonmuffin Fri 14-Jan-11 15:37:03

Oh dear, this hasn't gone quite the way you thought has it, why don't you repost in the feminism topic, i think you'll be alot happier with the response you get there grin

cestlavie Fri 14-Jan-11 15:37:11

BeenBeta: interesting idea to let the newbies learn the ropes in Feminism... would that be as in "enough rope hang selves"?

MrSpoc Fri 14-Jan-11 15:37:37

More like a chasterdy belt.

SexyDomesticatedDab Fri 14-Jan-11 15:41:24

Is it more like in Toy Story 3 where the new toys have to go the the playroom where all the kids are really rough with them? If you survive get let into the nicer _chat section?

BeenBeta Fri 14-Jan-11 15:43:36

<tops up GOML with more tea just in case she needs a full bladder>

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GetOrfMoiLand Fri 14-Jan-11 15:48:48

lol, nobody has ever before told me to go boil my head, the poster in question called me IT as well, and said I was mumsnet mafia!

grin re full bladder.

Beta I was amazed yesterday at you thinking (a) I was old and (b) thinking I was middle class cos live in Cheltenham grin

Mumsnet Mafia?!

Welcome to the cunts GetOrf grin

BitOfFun Fri 14-Jan-11 15:53:15

I like the predominantly female vibe here. It really pisses me off when male trolls show up on the relationships board or in the feminism section.

Again though, the perfectly lovely blokes here who don't go round swinging their metaphorical bollocks around are more than welcome. The crackpots should just bog off though.

GetOrfMoiLand Fri 14-Jan-11 15:55:49

<laughing helplessly> at 'welcome to the cunts'

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SlobbyBOB Fri 14-Jan-11 15:59:25

Mine ae not metaphorical though.smile

"Swing low ...."

SexyDomesticatedDab Fri 14-Jan-11 16:02:13

Is that a technical term for how they are shaped then?

Rugby played by men with metaphorical odd shaped balls?

Lovecat Fri 14-Jan-11 16:04:29

I like men on MN.

What I find mildly amusing is the reaction some newbie males give when disagreed with or not fallen upon and acclaimed as The Voice Of Reason on a thread. Poor bewildered dears, for some of them it seems to be the first time the horrid women have ever talked back...


I miss retiredgoth

xfirsttimemummyx Fri 14-Jan-11 16:05:53

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SlobbyBOB Fri 14-Jan-11 16:06:27

<Firks around >

Nope

Fancy a scrum. grin

Snorbs Fri 14-Jan-11 16:10:22

I miss retiredgoth too. I think he's been waylaid by A Woman shock

BeenBeta Fri 14-Jan-11 16:13:20

GOML - not half as amazed as I was to learn you were 32. grin

Good luck by the way. Your DP sounds like a great bloke. Me and DW didnt even start TTC until we were 35.

Saltatrix Fri 14-Jan-11 16:15:11

<--- a man btw if any confusion, I have said it before on another thread.

mutznutz Fri 14-Jan-11 16:16:45

LadyBlaBlah Fri 14-Jan-11 13:37:25
Are you a man mutznutz?

No

UnquietDad Fri 14-Jan-11 16:20:53

LOL at "swinging their metaphorical bollocks".

Yes, I do think that for people more used to stereotypically "male" online places, like football fora, that the more actively testicular style of argument seems to be the way to win arguments. (Having said that, women are just of capable of metaphorical hoisting of the tackle.)

I've never frequented those places and that's perhaps why, by and large, I fit in here. I've had some robust arguments but my contributions have usually gone down well... Except in the feminist section, which is the only place where I have had anyone ever actually become personally abusive, passive-aggressive and spiteful. As our American chums say, "go figure"...

Saltatrix Fri 14-Jan-11 16:24:29

TheButterflyEffect
Isn't that view kind of counterproductive I have seen often there people saying men need to change etc etc, but you don't want them to comment? I doubt it will get very far then if you have discussions behind closed doors where your target audience will either be oblivious or if interested rejected.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Truckulente Fri 14-Jan-11 16:40:52

The feminism section isn't that scary, I've learnt a lot from MN mainly that men and women don't understand each other very much.

My favorite quote on the feminist section was:

'I do think that female society would find it quite threatening if there were a large number of single fathers all getting along quite happily and saying 'I'd only want a woman if she had tits and didn't interfere with my cricket'

Which is now my new philosophy on life.

Saltatrix Fri 14-Jan-11 16:44:58

I really have not seen any male posters (to my knowledge) going on threads to have a go at victims (there have been a couple men in the section but they tend to go to threads which are directly about men).

And isn't mumsnet full of supportive women (and men) even so there have been many arguments on sensitive subjects which have been solely between women.

I understand what your saying though, not saying it's wrong space should be respected but just making you aware that if it is change that you are after specifically change in society and men in general it would make sense to come out to discuss otherwise why would anything change when there isn't even a thought that things could be different.

Snorbs Fri 14-Jan-11 16:46:01

TheButterflyEffect, I don't think I've ever seen a thread on MN where someone asking for support after being raped or abused by men where someone - man or woman - has said that she must have provoked it.

(As an aside, I have seen threads on MN where it's been suggested that men who have been abused by women have provoked it but that's pretty rare.)

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

prettybird Fri 14-Jan-11 16:57:57

YABU. I like having a male opinion on things - and the majority are upfront about the fact that they are male (although dh, who sometimes posts, says he can tell that there are some posters who are male by the way that they write hmm)

lifeinCrimbo Fri 14-Jan-11 17:06:34

I would say men can have a different response and a different way of viewing things. While this makes the dicussion more interesting on some threads, on others a few certain men can be rather aggressive and personal (yes perhaps it is bollock swinging)

So, in summary, I dont mind a few men on here, as long as they play nicely.

BeenBeta Fri 14-Jan-11 17:08:27

I know people think that it is easy to spot a 'male' posting style but it really isnt.

Some people think I am a woman on here. grin

Saltatrix Fri 14-Jan-11 17:09:43

"There certainly has been a rush of blokes recently onto MN. I'd say its easily risen to 30 or so from a much more manageable 20 in just six short months."

Surely they can just use teacher tactics were the prefect size for a classroom grin

JamieLeeCurtis Fri 14-Jan-11 17:12:18

BeenBeta

I wonder now, if when I was Jamieandhismagictorch, people thought I was man. Never occurred to me until recently. Wonder if it altered people's responses to me?

OTheHugeManatee Fri 14-Jan-11 17:12:50

Beta I've had people (though not yet on MN) assume that I'm a man from the way I write.

Perhaps we should swap posting styles?

BeenBeta Fri 14-Jan-11 17:17:51

Since I took 'Dad' out of my name I feel I get less obviously noticed as a bloke on a thread - which is good.

KangarooCaught Fri 14-Jan-11 17:21:28

BeerTricksPotter's 13:39:10 post should be quote of the week:

"Well, they're a bit like pheasants, most of them. They go wandering and clucking over to Feminism and get run over and squashed."

Now off to read the rest of the thread

Goldenbear Fri 14-Jan-11 17:24:56

I can't even tell the difference unless they actually refer to themselves as a man when offering an opinion, so a male perspective on a thread is of no use to me as I don't recognise them as such.

My DP once hijacked my name and some posters outed his gender from his style/tone of writing.

AnyFucker Fri 14-Jan-11 17:28:49

I like the men around

unless they are cocks, in which case it quickly gets noticed and they are run outta town

I like the non-mums too

I used to be one

I didn't use to be a man though

Hassled Fri 14-Jan-11 17:31:16

I like the men around too. Apart from anything else, I think MN serves as a useful educational tool for them. And there's never been a male poster I've taken against, I don't think. They seem polite and interested/interesting on the whole.

JamieLeeCurtis Fri 14-Jan-11 17:35:33

This will maybe come out wrong but I shall muse anyway. I have had the experience, quite often, (and especially in younger days) of men being the "funny ones" in any mixed social situation, of them performing their comedy routines and women being a bit in thrall to them. Have very much appreciated the humour on MN and felt at home here. Have met more women on my wavelength that I could do in RL. Anyone who doubts women are very funny (and that's an opinion that gets voiced on and off in the media) should come on here.

JamieLeeCurtis Fri 14-Jan-11 17:36:48

... nothing much to do with the OP really, just wondering if that's the female vibe I get from MN that people have mentioned

missmehalia Fri 14-Jan-11 17:40:59

I don't particularly like any response on here that says 'pull yourself together' or words to that effect, no matter what gender happened to post it. And I think I've noticed that more and more recently (last few months) - have been on here on and off for about 18 months? Maybe it's a gender-biased adssumption the OP has made.

I do see that it's more likely to be open to that kind of response on the AIBU threads.. but some of the others I don't think it's called for. If the poster feels that impatient reading a thread, I think they should just go to a different one and keep their keyboard shut.

I do dislike the way a computer can give some people a false bravery - it seems less real to dish out abuse when it's just a screen etc.

As I said, I've noticed that kind of response, or a few 'deliberately provocative' posts - which sometimes don't even relate much to the original question! But I'm avoiding the assumption it's men.

There do seem to have been a lot of trolls recently.

missmehalia Fri 14-Jan-11 17:42:12

Totally agree, JLCurtis. MN has made me laugh longer and harder than anything I've seen on telly for years. What a waste of talent that it's on here - a public forum that any half-smart scripwriter could plunder.

LadyBlaBlah Fri 14-Jan-11 17:55:43

Exactly that Jamie - I see hilarious women on MN all the time. You don't see that of women in rl very often - hen nights spring to mind as an example but not the bit when you are out in bars/restaurants, it is the bits when you get up in the morning or when you are all together getting ready to go out, having a laugh away from any men.

As everyone keeps saying, men bring a different perspective.

Unrulysun Fri 14-Jan-11 17:58:08

It's a difficult one because we're all people and maybe there's a useful perspective but I wonder if thebutterflyeffect doesn't have a very good point re a safe place? I also notice that you don't get so much preening on this board as many others because people aren't (subconsciously?) flirting which makes it more interesting and less vomit-making as a forum. I don't think you can ask men not to be here or comment though and maybe it's self selecting as it is?

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Unrulysun Fri 14-Jan-11 18:17:01

But I wonder whether dome people perhaps want a place to discuss with other women in Relationships or Bereavement? I don't know that they do but I suspect that they might?

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

cestlavie Fri 14-Jan-11 18:26:30

Just an observation but if women really want to just talk to women, are there not sites where that would be the case? (Asking in genuine ignorance)

I suspect OP is really a man and she likes being "The only boy in the village" grin

GwynAndBearIt Fri 14-Jan-11 19:11:34

grin Butterfly - "falling on their cocks and shagging them"

OP YABU

My brother is a SAHD and is on here every now and then, I don't know his nickname nor he mine (although if he sees this he may guess). He is the nicest, kindest, most understanding person I know.

And he has a great sense of humour.

It has surprised me when some names I recognise have casually dropped in that they are men, (when i've missed it being mentioned before) - I never would have guessed in most cases.

I agree with AnyFucker,

and I agree with Trills

(just for good measure)

Magna Fri 14-Jan-11 19:39:06

After reading this thread I realise I don't take note of names of posters and what gender they are. Why should it matter everyone is entitled to their own opinion whatever sex they are.

As previous posters have said MN is a forum for all not just mums.

So op YABU

hully Darren may have name changed already to Wayne so MNHQ reckon grin

SalvadorDalek Fri 14-Jan-11 19:41:54

I was going to put forward my opinon but I didnt want to upset you so I will just sit here quiet like and say nothing

Truckulente Fri 14-Jan-11 20:06:29

I think men have to be a bit careful what they post on, I'd never post on a breast/bottle thread, mainly as I don't really care, or on relationships unless I don't think the man has done anything wrong, and it is a light heartedish thread.

I'd never heard of blw until recently and don't have an opinion on it either. And if it is obvious abuse is going on I stay well clear.

And male forums tend to be on a single theme,cars,football,geeky stuff which is pretty boring.

maryz Fri 14-Jan-11 20:18:22

I think it's pretty sexist to announce that you don't like "men's posts" or "men's opinions" or even "the way men state their opinions" etc - surely there must be certain posters on any thread whose opinions you don't like confused.

And if we were to add up all the trolls on mumsnet, I'm pretty sure more of them would be women, so the troll argument doesn't stand up either. I would also think that the more harmful trolls (i.e. the emotional trolls, iyswim) are probably mostly women.

<<whispers, I'm also afraid of the feminism board blush - I'm always afraid I will say the wrong thing>>

KalokiMallow Fri 14-Jan-11 21:06:35

I'm glad there are men here, seems most of my hobbies and interests aren't shared by most women. It's nice to not be in such a minority on here.

TheShriekingHarpy Fri 14-Jan-11 21:18:43

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheShriekingHarpy Fri 14-Jan-11 21:37:34

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Snorbs Fri 14-Jan-11 21:39:17

Pah. You just can't cope with the magnificence of our Y-chromosomes.

Mymblesson Fri 14-Jan-11 21:42:10

The stunted, withered, miserable little Y chromosome? I don't think we can brag about those grin

TheShriekingHarpy Fri 14-Jan-11 21:48:09

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheShriekingHarpy Fri 14-Jan-11 21:50:32

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Snorbs Fri 14-Jan-11 21:55:53

Mymblesson, I think the word you wanted was streamlined.

Mymblesson Fri 14-Jan-11 21:57:28

GPWM

Mymblesson Fri 14-Jan-11 21:59:53

Oh and anyone who likes the Cocteau Twins and Dead Can Dance is all right by me smile

scottishmummy Fri 14-Jan-11 22:00:32

men?i like men.lots of men.just not all at once mind

if you only want lassies only and women's business go bang on about how hard done you are elsewhere (try style and beauty no one goes there)

ps sucking up and brown nosing the regular guys is obsequious

GwynAndBearIt Fri 14-Jan-11 22:15:56

Truck - you are a bloke thought aren't you?

grin

ABetaGok Fri 14-Jan-11 22:48:10

Style & Beauty?

I'd love to help out more often in there but am frightened of spreading myself too thin.

smile

scottishmummy Fri 14-Jan-11 23:07:37

those frumps need you gok spread the lurve

TiggyD Fri 14-Jan-11 23:24:31

I wouldn't rely on turkey basters ShriekingHarpy. One bit of accidental turkey DNA might mean your child has feathers and a beak. Not to mention that weird wobbly face stuff they have going on.

thumbdabwitch Fri 14-Jan-11 23:26:45

snorbs - retiredgoth did indeed get waylaid by A Woman - oddly enough, someone I know; a very peculiar circumstance (the joys of FB!).

Y chromosome = X chromosome with one leg missing. wink

TiggyD Fri 14-Jan-11 23:34:09

Men and women are pretty similar. I think the problem is that the two sexes don't mix enough so when they're together they can't get over the differences.
I visited a nursery where one of the staff said that it would be great to have a man working for them. When I pointed out there was a man working behind her she said "He doesn't count. That's just Barry". She had got so used to working with him that he had ceased to be 'The Man' and became a person.
Think of people as people rather than of a sex.

TiggyD Fri 14-Jan-11 23:36:17

X chromosome = Y chromosome. It's just that the Y chromosome has it's legs together.

TheShriekingHarpy Fri 14-Jan-11 23:50:44

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LadyBlaBlah Sat 15-Jan-11 10:04:24

I had to look up obsequious.

cory Sat 15-Jan-11 11:07:55

ShriekingHarpy, please don't tell dh: it might make him less efficient in the daily running of the household and I need him for that so I can mumsnet!

If Mumsnet were ever to be a "safe space", we'd need to turf half the female posters off.

granted Sat 15-Jan-11 11:11:07

I'm with you, LadyBlaBlah. I moved to mumsnet recently specifically because I wanted a man-free space. Was fed up of sexist, leering and stalking comments on other sites, and men dominating all the political discussions with patronising'I know best' shtick.

So, whilst beenbeta, say, is someone whose point of view I respect and whom I have no remote objection to, having discovered here he's a man I wish I'd come across him on another site - I'd like to have a little bit of the online world free of men, with loud shouty voices.

PrincessScrumpy Sat 15-Jan-11 11:15:16

It may shock you but we don't all hate men or dhs. My dh is not on mumsnet but he does often look over my shoulder when I was asking about cs etc.

Most men here are fine and most women here are fine - some are annoying (both sexes).

Bucharest Sat 15-Jan-11 11:21:17

I've always been pleased that, unlike Other Parenting Forums, MN was one where all the wimmin didn't get all shrieky and, well, girly whenever a bloke dared appear.

BeenBeta Sat 15-Jan-11 11:35:00

granted - but you didnt know I was a man up until this thread and it didnt matter then so now that you do know I am a man I hope it won't matter (too much) now. smile

That said, I think the blokes here do tend to stay away from quite large areas of MN so there are a lot of bloke free spaces.

I agree about other forums on the internet that have lots of shouty sexist blokes in them. A few of the political ones I go on are very tiresome for that very reason and I have stopped posting in them.

Snorbs Sat 15-Jan-11 11:36:37

granted, maybe you could set up a women-only parenting website that would match what you are looking for?

PatFig Sat 15-Jan-11 11:37:23

YANBU
I dont like other SAHD coming to the coffee groups or toddler groups I go to.

nickelbabysnatcher Sat 15-Jan-11 11:57:30

I like having men on here - sometiems it can get a little bit one-sided when there are genuine issues being discussed.

And it's especially important to have their imput in Relationships and Parenting sections.

DameShirley - I always knew you were a man - I could tell by how closely you held me to your bosom. shock

nickelbabysnatcher Sat 15-Jan-11 11:57:57

input i meant...

prettybird Sat 15-Jan-11 12:16:01

Even if you were to set up a "Women's Only" web-site, hwo would you know that the posters really were women? hmm

This is the internet: posters are anonymous and some of them could be aliens for all we know grin

The only way to be aboslutely sure would be to demand meet-ups before someone is accepted. Which sort of defeats the purpose.

sakura Sat 15-Jan-11 12:21:25

Some are okay, some are not. One just told dittany she was being "disrespectful" towards him

<snicker>

Snorbs Sat 15-Jan-11 12:22:31

I wonder if MNHQ ever look at the stats for how many regular female and male posters (or, at least, whichever sex they claim to be) they get on the site? My wild stab in the dark estimate would be around 100:1.

maryz Sat 15-Jan-11 12:26:37

Oh my God sakura shock. Has he been chewed up and spat out yet? Dittany can be terrifying grin.

<<By the way, was she?>>

sakura Sat 15-Jan-11 12:29:03

she was more dignified than I could ever be!

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

scottishmummy Sat 15-Jan-11 12:43:11

safe space what a crock of keech.mn public forum accessible to all.if you want safe space and hug the elephant,go join a therapeutic community

sakura Sat 15-Jan-11 12:45:21

I like the resident misogynysts we get, because then you can point at them whenever a normal MNer wonders whether feminism is necessary or not

sakura Sat 15-Jan-11 12:45:58

misogyn*i*sts
gah
I should be able to spell it by now

scottishmummy Sat 15-Jan-11 12:59:29

"normal" mumsnetter.lol who made you the adjudicator of normality

sakura Sat 15-Jan-11 13:11:30

good point, misogynists are also normal
we're all normal
Let's all just get along

scottishmummy Sat 15-Jan-11 13:13:03

normal is highly subjective

sakura Sat 15-Jan-11 13:41:47

agreed

NetworkGuy Sat 15-Jan-11 14:00:57

LadyBlaBlah 14-Jan-11 13:45 - "I like a place where men don't change the tone."

Does that mean "have a different viewpoint" ?
If so, YABU.

"I like it when men come to the feminism section ...."

I don't know whether my views come across as misogynistic but if I ever stray into a thread in the feminism section, I expect my English comprehension to be thoroughly tested, and every sentence I write to be ripped to threads by one poster, who appears to be a man-hater.

" They only last a thread."

Challenging it may be, but this is like being put in a dungeon and prepared for torture, so my hat goes off to any man who bothers to go back a second time.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CabbagefromaBaby Sat 15-Jan-11 14:35:32

I don't mind the men too much (and yes I have noticed sharp increase in last few weeks).

What I dislike vehemently is the misogyny among some of them.

But not all of them are like that.

There might be something to be said for having a mainly femal forum though...men's only clubs and women's only clubs.

I have nothing against it - a bit like smoking pubs and non smoking pubs. If you have a choice, that is - and this is one of the best forums, I just hope it doesn't start to take on a misogynistic tone like SO many other forums have. That would be dreadful.

This isn't the fault of most men. This is due to a large number of the old guard who were brought up with very pervasive sexism and can't help feeling an internet forum is not the place for a woman.

I've left a few forums because of it. So I think we need to watch that. But hopefully with the proportions currently as they are it's a long way off.

StewieGriffinsMom Sat 15-Jan-11 14:36:33

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

StewieGriffinsMom Sat 15-Jan-11 14:38:19

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Truckulente Sat 15-Jan-11 14:42:33

Apart from some very odd posters who don't stay long I've not noticed any misogynistic posters. if by Misogyny you mean women hating.

Or is the patriarchy (which I still don't quite get) blinding me.?

CabbagefromaBaby Sat 15-Jan-11 14:45:46

I know why it bothers me. There are some brilliant men among us and very helpful and useful and nice and equitable and totally non misogynist.

Like ABD and some others for example. what scares me is that other men who are nOT so equitable (is that the right word?) I mean treating us as equals, might see there are men here and think they can comeover with their lads and their casual sexism and take over.

that is what frightens me.

Truckulente Sat 15-Jan-11 14:47:58

I don't think droves of men will come and post on MN I'm the only man I know who has even heard of it.

sakura Sat 15-Jan-11 14:48:00

honestly, I LOL at the beautiful onomatopeia of "Fathers4Justice Fruitcake"

SOme women are misogynists as well

Some men are so impressive that you think they're a feminist woman until they say something that makes you realised they're male

sakura Sat 15-Jan-11 14:49:04

not- onomatopeia... another word.
ANyway,
nice turn of phrase

CabbagefromaBaby Sat 15-Jan-11 14:50:57

Alliteracy I think.

Good points Sakura. But if a person is a misogynist s/he will naturally gravitate towards other men as s/he thinks they are better. So letting in just one of them is a risk.

sakura Sat 15-Jan-11 14:52:21

Truck, it's the odd posters that I'm talking about. There's an odd "visitor" right now on one of the Feminist threads.

Truckulente Sat 15-Jan-11 14:53:28

Alliteration?

Frumpy funless feminists

Men marvelous misogynists

Coleysworth Sat 15-Jan-11 14:53:52

Sakura - it could be alliteration ... or tautology wink

sakura Sat 15-Jan-11 14:55:17

yes, cabbage, I spot the misogynist not so much by what they say most of the time, but by the way they talk to posters they presume are female. It's extraordinary, they way they pontificate and mansplain and feel they mustn't be "disrespected"

others have ulterior motives, someone defending the sex industry who might have a stake in it, for example

sakura Sat 15-Jan-11 14:55:54

lol Truckulent

UnquietDad Sat 15-Jan-11 15:00:31

Could do without that horrific neologism "mansplain" though. It's horribly patronising, and one of the best ways of getting male posters' backs up.

sakura Sat 15-Jan-11 15:09:13

it annoys because it hits the nail on the head so well

since that phrase has been introduced to MN a lot of women have breathed a sigh of recognition. There has been a gap in the English language to describe the specifically patronizing way that some men expect women to listen to them, their views, their knowledge, often on a subject the women is more qualified in.
Admittedly this happens in real life more than on MN, but it happens on MN too. Mansplaining is the perfect word for what these people do.

sakura Sat 15-Jan-11 15:11:58

I mean, they expect the woman to listen (at length) nod in awe and agreement, when for all he knows she has more knowledge about the subject herself. If she pipes up, she's often ignored or overruled. It's really infuriating.

ChickensFlyingUnderTheRadar Sat 15-Jan-11 15:16:04

I think I might mansplain. I just like the sound of my own voice. Think that's more a personality issue than a gender one, though. Because I'm not a man. Just really irritating.

GabbyLoggon Sat 15-Jan-11 15:16:15

I dont do x-bash or any of that sort of stuff

Thats possibly an age group thing. I support womens causes where I can.

I think womans Hour (R4) has a rational attitute to their female listeners.

I currently have a heavy cold. (Which is not man flu)

And my wife scores me 8-10 for social conscience. Not so good for DIY, or decorating...(But some skills are inherited.)

The future of planet earth depends on both sexes being around. (But not necessarily on mumsnet)
You could have a Dadsnet It would seem churlish

HerBeatitude Sat 15-Jan-11 15:29:22

I think the word mansplain is really useful, because as Sakura says, it describes exactly what it is. An explanation by someone who actually knows far less about the subject matter he is talking about, than the people he is explaining to, combined with a conviction that he has the right to be listened to and have his views taken seriously even when they are completely uninformed.

The only other situation I have ever seen this happen, is in Clare in the Community, when she is explaining about racism to her black clients (and that surely hardly ever happnes in RL anymore, does it? Please? And it is deliberately OTT cartoon humour), or when MP's tell us what it's like to struggle financially... it's the sheer arrogance and privilege of it that the word captures and it is something women have to put up with all the time in RL, so to have it named as a phenomenon is an immense relief. And of course it gets men's backs up, they're not used to being called on their privileged behaviour, because most of the time on t'interweb and in RL, it simply goes unnoticed - we're just so used to it.

HerBeatitude Sat 15-Jan-11 15:30:13

chickens - that's what I mean about Clare in the Community - she does the equivalent of mansplaining doesn't she?

HerBeatitude Sat 15-Jan-11 15:31:24

Oh and the other thing is, that you can only mansplain or its equivalent, if you have absolutely no respect for the audience you are "putting right".

vesuvia Sat 15-Jan-11 15:35:44

I think some men mansplain to other men too, about non-gender related topics.

GabbyLoggon Sat 15-Jan-11 15:39:00

All public debates seem to be competitive.
Question Time...Any Questions/ mumsnet up to a point.

Mancini tells his players to kick bits out of each other on the training.ground. And he seemed like a gentleman....Write and ask the man city manager to post on Mumsnet....and see if he wows the ladies...cheers "Gabby"

vesuvia Sat 15-Jan-11 15:39:39

UnquietDad - "Could do without that horrific neologism "mansplain" though. It's horribly patronising, and one of the best ways of getting male posters' backs up."

Is the man in "mansplain" more patronising than the man in mankind?

BeenBeta Sat 15-Jan-11 15:44:41

ChickensFlying - I do genuinely quite like it when you chickensplain though. smile

UnquietDad Sat 15-Jan-11 15:45:52

It's patronising because it is deliberately engineered to be so, which the man in "mankind" never was.

If you are going to put forward that there is a typically "male" way of doing or saying things, you surely have to accept that there is a typically "female" way of doing and saying things. But I don't necessarily believe that and I wouldn't use the word "womansplain".

HerBeatitude Sat 15-Jan-11 15:51:31

It's not about being typical UD.

It's about a specific entitlement that some people in privileged groups have, to tell other people in non-privileged groups, how they feel and how things really are.

I mean, i remember a thread where some bloke was actually telling a bunch of mumsnetters who had been in labour, what labour was like.

grin

And he wasn't being ironic!

StewieGriffinsMom Sat 15-Jan-11 15:52:50

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

UnquietDad Sat 15-Jan-11 15:53:25

Does it need such a horrible made-up word? You'd think that if it were such an "obvious" concept there would already be a word for it - something more gender-neutral, preferably.

HerBeatitude Sat 15-Jan-11 15:54:06

And also UD, there are plenty of words used about women, to say how they explain things - nag, shrill, etc.

You don't have to invent new words to denigrate how women speak, because our language is already full of them.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Coleysworth Sat 15-Jan-11 15:59:10

Well, it's not about you though UQD, is it. Are you really telling us that the behaviour 'mansplain' was coined to describe doesn't exist when several women have already posted to say that it's a behaviour they recognise? Are you saying that it's all in our silly little heads? hmm

Truckulente Sat 15-Jan-11 16:01:48

What about the Menz is annoying as well

RunawayFishWife Sat 15-Jan-11 16:03:01

YABU this is a forum for parents and as much as a lot of people here like to think otherwise, mothers are not the be all and end all in a child's life, because unless you are called Mary and live in the middle east and had your child 2000 + years ago chances are there is a man involved somewhere.

So sick of sanctimonious women thinking that cause they gave birth to a child it is theirs and theirs alone.

UnquietDad Sat 15-Jan-11 16:04:03

Why have the attitude "men have horrid words for talking about the way women speak, so let's have horrid words for the way men speak in return?" It seems a little tit-for-tat. Why not rise above it?

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Truckulente Sat 15-Jan-11 16:10:06

Wind-bag, bore, baffoon.

Coleysworth Sat 15-Jan-11 16:11:09

"Why not rise above it?" translates to "Why not shut the fuck up about it?", I presume.

UnquietDad Sat 15-Jan-11 16:12:23

(Sigh)

Yes, if you like hmm

HerBeatitude Sat 15-Jan-11 16:13:03

When you said that Truck, I thought of:

David Starkey
Stephen Fry
Boris Johnson

So you're right, there are words which are primarily used for male behaviour.

However, none of those captures the privilege aspect of mansplain.

I'm happy to use another word if it hits the nail so accurately on the head.

Coleysworth Sat 15-Jan-11 16:13:21

Good. Glad that's settled grin

HerBeatitude Sat 15-Jan-11 16:14:38

But rising above it isn't an analytical position UD.

If you don't analyse and describe something, you don't recognise it and you can't change it.

UnquietDad Sat 15-Jan-11 16:15:05

I look forward to it happening. I expect I will be due a long wait.

HerBeatitude Sat 15-Jan-11 16:15:31

And how does rising above it, stop it happening?

Are we not allowed to call men on their sexism then?

Coleysworth Sat 15-Jan-11 16:16:32

I think we are being told to turn the other cheek, HB.

HerBeatitude Sat 15-Jan-11 16:18:04

Well it will be a shorter wait if you can come up with a word which so accurately captures the phenomenon, UD.

As I said, I'm happy to use a different word if it is as perfectly descriptive as mansplain.

You're the one who is unhappy with it, so you're welcome to come up with an alternative. ATM I don't think we have another word which can be interchanged with mansplain.

UnquietDad Sat 15-Jan-11 16:20:49

I don't think we live in a world where you can just make up words for things and then say "well, if you don't like it, find another one". It would make a nonsense of language. I think you'll be waiting a long time for this one to appear on "Countdown".

Truckulente Sat 15-Jan-11 16:21:05

Well I think mansplaining when it is used comes across as dismissive of all men.

A bit like, typical man, it is stereotyping.

Saltatrix Sat 15-Jan-11 16:21:38

Arrogant , big talking, bigheaded, cocky, conceity, full of hot air, gall, ham, hot stuff, immodest, know-it-all, loudmouth, narcissistic, overweening, phony, puffed up, self-important, smart-alecky, snotty, stuck up, swollen-headed, vain, vainglorious, windbag

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HerBeatitude Sat 15-Jan-11 16:25:33

Eh? Language is constantly evolving, it's a dynamic thing which reflects and feeds into a culture. Of course you can make up words if you want to and if they have resonance, they catch on. Or they die.

Shakespeare was constantly inventing new words. Jasper Carrot apparantly invented the word zit as a substitute for spot (though I always wonder if that is an urban myth).

The word mansplain accurately describes a phenomenon which many women recognise and that is why it has caught on. If it had no resonance, it wouldn't.

UnquietDad Sat 15-Jan-11 16:26:23

This actually was an interesting thread about whether men should be "allowed" or are welcome here (as parents, on a parenting site). It's in danger of being derailed. Do we have a particular posting style which marks us out? Is there a way in which our method of engaging with a topic cane be seen as especially male? And if so, is this not "wrong" but just "different"?

Saltatrix Sat 15-Jan-11 16:27:04

Except 'mansplaining' is not really a gender thing I am sure you have seen women do the same thing.

UnquietDad Sat 15-Jan-11 16:27:21

HB, I'd question the automatic assumption that it has "caught on". Among my peer group in the real world, absolutely nobody, male or female, appears to have heard of it.

Truckulente Sat 15-Jan-11 16:27:25

I think 'twat' seems to be the most commonly used word to describe men on MN.

I did hear a friend call her DH a twat and wondered if she was using it as a code to fellow MN's but I may have been reading too much into it.

ILovedYou Sat 15-Jan-11 16:27:42

LMAO @ Beer {grin}

HerBeatitude Sat 15-Jan-11 16:28:20

Arrogant , bigheaded, conceity, gall,
hot stuff, immodest, know-it-all, loudmouth, narcissistic, phony, self-important, stuck up, swollen-headed, vain,

I think those ones are pretty gender neutral.

The others are probably more used about men though.

HerBeatitude Sat 15-Jan-11 16:29:53

I think mansplaining is an internet word atm UD.

Like LOL was five years ago.

People actually say LOL now in RL. shock

Coleysworth Sat 15-Jan-11 16:30:27

Mansplaining is a gender thing: that's why it has the word 'man' in it rather than 'person' or some other gender-neutral term.

You could have 'whitesplaining' or 'straightsplaining' (for example) to describe similar behaviour in relation to other social divisions.

UnquietDad Sat 15-Jan-11 16:31:45

I kept reading while at university that the exam format supposedly favoured the boys because we were more used to expressing our views in a way in which examiners liked to read them - confident, solid opinions expressed as facts, not hedged around with modifiers or ambiguities.

This sounded like little more than a sexist generalisation to me, and certainly wasn't borne out by the people I was at university with.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CraigRevelPan Sat 15-Jan-11 16:34:57

YABVU, OP. But I think that's already been said. I don't post with any regularity these days, but I have lurked a lot and there's nothing like droves - unless they are inaccurately attired. And a big hello to the blokes on here!

Mansplain? Crass. Someone was bored one day.

HerBeatitude Sat 15-Jan-11 16:39:05

It is a sexist generalisation UD but unfortunately I think it's grounded in fact.

Men are generally more inclined to state things as fact, even if they're not. Women are trained to caveat: "I think", "I believe" "IMO" "IME", even if they know for a fact, that the thing they are stating is indeed fact.

We are trained to be deferential in our body language and our speech. Men are trained to be authoritative in both.

And of course there are many many exceptions to the rule. But the generalism holds true. Although I think it's breaking down a bit - I notice that younger men are much more deferential and polite in their style of speaking than older ones are. Women haven't become more authoritative, but men seem to have become more hedging and caveating. Also there is this antipodean inflexion that has crept into the language which automatically makes eveything sound like a question rather than a statement and neutralises a bald statement.

That's just an impression though and may not be borne out by fact. grin

Coleysworth Sat 15-Jan-11 16:41:57

I don't agree that it's a sexist generalisation. To say that all men mansplain would be an unjustified generalisation. The word mansplain describes a behaviour: it doesn't imply that it's a behaviour demonstrated by all men.

Interesting to see how offended men get about it though.

Truckulente Sat 15-Jan-11 16:42:52

I assume you mean:

'that's is just an impression though and may not be borne out by fact??????'

Or are you being manly?

BeenBeta Sat 15-Jan-11 16:44:23

TheButterfly - I can see what the word means and I know the phenomenon and why it is very very annoying to women.

I saw a man doing 'mansplaining' on TV to a woman the other day. Me and DW were willing her to smack him in the mouth. She looked handy enough to do it too. grin

The thing is though, I rather agree with your DH on his analysis of what it means when I see it on MN and do feel rather insulted along with the term 'menz' which is guaranteed to annoy me even more.

When men trolls come along I do go hmm but th etemerity to venture a sincere well thought out opinion does not deserve insults - be it man or woman.

That is what MN is about.

HerBeatitude Sat 15-Jan-11 16:44:36

<Swaggers>

HerBeatitude Sat 15-Jan-11 16:46:30

Beenbeta - I dont' think a sincere, well thought out opinion, does result in insults, unless it is accompanied by mansplaining or insults itself.

CraigRevelPan Sat 15-Jan-11 16:47:06

coleysworth - for me,I don't get 'offended' by it. I just dismiss it. It is an unpleasant generalisation but not worth getting upset over.

Saltatrix Sat 15-Jan-11 16:48:46

Except you don't really see this in MN many people say what gender they are and people are surprised, so to use reasoning which does not actually happen often on MN is unfair don't you think.

I am often annoyed with the word 'men' being used then someone quickly saying they meant men 'as a group' whilst still talking about behaviour expressed by a minority of men as though the majority of men do it.

Truckulente Sat 15-Jan-11 16:49:05

I think on a site with so many people wanting equality and an end to sexism 'mansplaining' and 'menz' seem a bit a out of place.

CabbagefromaBaby Sat 15-Jan-11 16:49:47

Completely with UQD on this. SOME men might explain stuff in that way - but to generalise it is wrong. Really wrong - 'womansplain' would be considered an outrage and I consider 'mansplain' an outrage too.

It implies that it is a universally male thing. It certainly is not.

nothing to do with rising above, some posts seem to imply that all men are sexist about women which is also untrue. (obviously)

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CabbagefromaBaby Sat 15-Jan-11 16:51:44

Coles, how on earth does the word 'mansplain' NOT imply that all men do it? It contains, purposely, the word 'man'.

Rather than 'malemisogynistsplain' which would be more fitting.

Wouldn't 'womansplain' inherently criticise all women?

Coleysworth Sat 15-Jan-11 16:52:37

Pan, it is not a generalisation. It's a verb describing a particular kind of behaviour by a member or members of a privileged group towards those on the other side of that line of privilege. There is nothing in the word that implies that all men do it, or even that one man makes a habit of doing it. Where does this 'generalisation' idea come from, I wonder.

Saltatrix Sat 15-Jan-11 16:52:45

Pun intended? smile

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Coleysworth Sat 15-Jan-11 16:54:40

Unless you're objecting to the generalisation that men-as-a-group are privileged over women-as-a-group, is that what your problem is with it? Surely not.

Truckulente Sat 15-Jan-11 16:55:37

I think nearly the full compliment of 'droves' are on this thread now, about seven.

Coming soon:
The Misogynist Seven starring Danny Dyer.

CraigRevelPan Sat 15-Jan-11 16:58:24

hmm..not a generalisation? Okaaay.hmm

Saltatrix Sat 15-Jan-11 16:59:36

Well I have a problem with 'men as a group' are privileged because in actuality they are not, society cannot be defined in such a clear cut manner. Many factors like race and class etc factor into someone's privilege and men are in those groups as well.

CabbagefromaBaby Sat 15-Jan-11 17:00:40

Hang on a moment...surely if not all men do it, then it can be nothing to do with the [fact]? that all men are privileged?

You are confusing me there. Surely if they are all coming from the same standpoint which in itself defines 'manspeaking' they are all doing it?

Truckulente Sat 15-Jan-11 17:00:44

Saltatrix- You fell for the trap, run, run for your life.

HerBeatitude Sat 15-Jan-11 17:01:05

I think that's what the hostility to the term is Coleysworth.

The articulation of privilege. It is very uncomfortable to be told that you are privileged and the usual response is denial.

So any term which invokes the concept of privilege, as mansplain does, is going to be received with hostility.

Coleysworth Sat 15-Jan-11 17:02:01

<rolls eyes>

Let me womansplain it for you.

The word 'man' is in there because 'men' are the privileged group in question. Now you may not agree that men as a group are privileged over women as a group, which is the only generalisation being made. Is that what you are arguing?

Perhaps it would be easier to understand if you apply it to white/black instead of man/woman.

CabbagefromaBaby Sat 15-Jan-11 17:02:39

I'm not a bloke.

CabbagefromaBaby Sat 15-Jan-11 17:03:52

and can you stop being so patronising please?

There's no need to roll your eyes.

It would be just as ridiculous a term if you subbed black or white.

Blacksplaining? I don't think so.

HerBeatitude Sat 15-Jan-11 17:05:23

Saltatrix, I find it a bit odd that you accept that other factors like race and class have an influence on privilege, but sex doesn't.

hmmmmmmm

Truckulente Sat 15-Jan-11 17:06:32

My view is privilege is tied up with multiple jeopardy.

I may be more privileged than a women of my exact social standing, but I think race and poverty come into as well.

As a Male, black, gay, one legged, poor person I wouldn't feel very privileged?

CraigRevelPan Sat 15-Jan-11 17:07:34

don't roll you eyes at me, young lady!

I know of and acknowledge the notion of 'male privilige', and do see it being practiced most days in obvious and subtle ways.
this does not justify a cack way of generalising about men. And thank you for your 'learning tool' of the race comparater. Just what I needed.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CabbagefromaBaby Sat 15-Jan-11 17:08:55

It is a generalisation isn't it Pan? A total, blatant generalisation. Or are we both going mad?

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sethstarkaddersmackerel Sat 15-Jan-11 17:09:53

whitesplaining would make sense to me though.

the point is it's the privileged group that something-splains. If we lived in a world where black people were more privileged and had been for centuries I could imagine blacksplaining might take place.

CabbagefromaBaby Sat 15-Jan-11 17:10:12

TBE, I find the rape thing a bit of a weird one because a woman cannot physically rape without a LOT of effort.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Saltatrix Sat 15-Jan-11 17:10:27

I do accept that sex has an influence, I was saying that sex is not the only factor and many other aspects play a part in ones privilege which men can make equal numbers of as well.

HerBeatitude Sat 15-Jan-11 17:11:24

As a male black gay one legged poor person, the only privilege you would have is your maleness.

I have white privilege. I also have educational privilege. I have able-bodied privilege. I have heterosexual privilege. I have western privilege.

On other things - class, money, sex, nationality, I am on the other side of the privilege line.

I don't have a problem with a black person telling me I have white privilege. I do. That doesn't mean I am a privileged person in the sense that I am Joanna Lumley or Tara Palmer-Rama-La-di-da-da-pardy or Prince Harry.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CabbagefromaBaby Sat 15-Jan-11 17:12:03

But Seth the very substitution of whatever word - black, white, man, woman - IS implicitly generalising.

Truckulente Sat 15-Jan-11 17:13:41

I just don't think it's as black and white (Ha!) as men and women.

Male, white, rich, able-bodied at the top.
Female,black, poor, disabled at the bottom.
Lots in between.

I could go on about coming from a tough inner-city Comp where no one was expected to go to Uni and you were meant to get a job in a factory, tug your forelock say 'thank you master' and be thankful you had bread and dripping for tea but I won't.

HerBeatitude Sat 15-Jan-11 17:13:47

Was saying this on another thread. People get hung up on the concept of privilege, as if it's static and we're accusing all men, all whites, all heterosexuals etc., of being Prince Charles or Camilla. We're not.

CraigRevelPan Sat 15-Jan-11 17:14:35

of course so, cabbage. Suspect a bit of stubborness is going on. Which is always boring, 'cept when I do it!

off to Style and beauty - my natural homeland.grin

CabbagefromaBaby Sat 15-Jan-11 17:14:45

So eg Whitesplaining would mean that you are doing it in a certain way because you are white. Not because you are privileged. And even if it was because you were privileged, you might well be privileged and not speak in that manner.

It's a poor construction, it really is. And I am offended by it - womansplaining too, offends me, as a woman. It's gross.

HerBeatitude Sat 15-Jan-11 17:15:39

I don't think anyone would disagree with you on that Saltatrix.

So why so antsy when male privilege is pointed out? You specifically said that you didn't think males were privileged as a group.

LeninGrad Sat 15-Jan-11 17:16:27

This is all a bit like the LGBT world I think. Straight people who frequent predominantly LGBT spaces are welcome but it's not on when they dominate and it's helpful if there is some awareness shown of the lives/ position in society of LGBT people.

It's not about individual people, it's about the feel or tone of a place as many have said and I think the OP is allowed to comment.

CabbagefromaBaby Sat 15-Jan-11 17:17:12

I'm privileged to be a white person in a developed country. It's not always a comfortable feeling to be privileged. But it sure as hell has no bearing on my resistance to these words.

CraigRevelPan Sat 15-Jan-11 17:18:55

take your LGBT point, Lenin - straights seem to want to wear their right-on credentials a little too much in other people's spaces.
It's the notion of droves and dominate on here that's a bit risible.

HerBeatitude Sat 15-Jan-11 17:19:30

No Cabbage, it would mean you were doing it in a way that denied or minimised the greater knowledge and experience of your black audience. You are able to do that, because your privilege as a white person who has never faced racism, has protected you from experiencing what your audience has experienced and what you are telling them that they haven't, because you haven't. In other words, you are privileging your experience over their's and imagining that because you haven't experienced what they have, they must be imagining it or lying about it.

As I said earlier, you can only take that attitude, if you really don't respect who you are talking to.

LeninGrad Sat 15-Jan-11 17:20:36

But I think the OP was making a general point about the rarity of a diverse online space where predominantly women gather. It is unusual and I like it for that.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LeninGrad Sat 15-Jan-11 17:23:12

"and imagining that because you haven't experienced what they have, they must be imagining it or lying about it."

That is exactly it. I can identify with a lot of what Truck said earlier but I don't know what it felt like to be a boy nurtured (or not) in that environment. I do know what it felt like to be a girl in comparison to my brother and I know the differences it resulted in.

LeninGrad Sat 15-Jan-11 17:24:14

Just privilege innit TBE? Or ignorance?

CabbagefromaBaby Sat 15-Jan-11 17:24:31

I understand that HB, but seriously, what a massive number of assumptions carried under the word 'white'.

I dislike the way it is a step removed from that whichit actually describes. It's at best lazy and at worst, shamefully inaccurate.

Why not be hung up on the individual and their multiple failings than the fact that they may be of that persuasion simply because they are white?

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CraigRevelPan Sat 15-Jan-11 17:25:06

waan't what she said though? And I ahve never touched an x-box in my life ( wouldn't know one if it landed on my head). That pathetic, silly jibe didn't help.

LeninGrad Sat 15-Jan-11 17:26:13

I think it would change it massively yes. Obviously it would depend on the blokes though, most have pitched up here because they don't like the other spaces out there either which is fair enough.

LeninGrad Sat 15-Jan-11 17:27:19

Pan, if we let an OP's op get in the way of a good discussion, we'd never get anywhere. I appreciate it feels personal though, and I can understand being pissed off about that.

CabbagefromaBaby Sat 15-Jan-11 17:27:28

there is a lot of prejudice against men on here isn't there. Loads of it. It's horrible.

And in what way were you 'womansplaining' to me, Coleysworth? Or to Pan for that matter...how does that term fit in with HB's explanation?

Can you really only understand things because you are a woman? seriously? It's such a crappy and divisive term.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Coleysworth Sat 15-Jan-11 17:27:34

Why not reduce it to the conduct of individuals? Because that wouldn't be a political analysis of the situation, cabbage. Mansplain is a word used by feminists who tend to agree that men as a group are privileged at the expense of women. If you don't subscribe to that view then mansplain is going to be a meaningless term for you, I guess.

CraigRevelPan Sat 15-Jan-11 17:28:04

it would change a great deal. and for the poorer I think. But it ain't gonna happen, is it?

Truckulente Sat 15-Jan-11 17:28:16

It will never be 50/50 on here there isn't a car topic, thank god.

HerBeatitude Sat 15-Jan-11 17:30:19

Oh don't truck, you'll give them ideas

CabbagefromaBaby Sat 15-Jan-11 17:31:10

I don't know if you intend it Coleys but you're still coming across as extremely patronising. You might not mean it that way...I do understand the concept of feminism, thankyou.

But I find some of its dogma very unhelpful. Very unhelpful indeed. I was a militant feminist about 20 years ago and learned a great deal from my experiences.

Saltatrix Sat 15-Jan-11 17:31:17

I disagreed with it being used as with description of a behaviour a minority of men do as though majority do it.

CraigRevelPan Sat 15-Jan-11 17:31:59

no coley, you are defending a nasty little generalisation by pointing t omale privilge as a defence. It's rot, and the analysis is reserved for people who are easily convinced or just 'want to believe'.

now really am off to S&B.

Coleysworth Sat 15-Jan-11 17:32:18

I apologise for taking such a facetious tone towards you before cabbage, it was unnecessarily tetchy.

Coleysworth Sat 15-Jan-11 17:34:25

Pan, whatever. You seem to be incapable of understanding the concept. Maybe that's because you've never had the misfortune of being on the receiving end of it as so many (but clearly not all) women have. <shrugs>

LeninGrad Sat 15-Jan-11 17:35:39

Feminists really are held to a higher standard than most in discussions though. I'm not keen on alienation and insult but there does come a point when you really can't say much of any meaning without making some general points.

CabbagefromaBaby Sat 15-Jan-11 17:37:52

thankyou, I understand you probaby thought I was a bloke. grin

I think the point is - well, one of them - that even if there is a really convoluted way in which it could almost not be a generalisation, it is because of the structure of this language, almost inevitably taken and used as one.

Which I feel is damaging and a little sneaky.

Truckulente Sat 15-Jan-11 17:37:59

Now I've never been in 'Style and Beauty' it sounds terrifying.

Do they have a section on 'Trainers and jogging bottoms'?

LeninGrad Sat 15-Jan-11 17:40:40

Cabbage, hate to pull rank but man-hater compared to mansplainer: one vilified and called all the names under the sun, the other gets an eye roll.

CraigRevelPan Sat 15-Jan-11 17:40:43

coley - I do understand the concept - are you this objectionable in RL? - it's just rot, for reasons other's have explained to you, but you choose to not hear. Thank you.

CabbagefromaBaby Sat 15-Jan-11 17:40:43

Truck, do you dislike/fear the women who use S&B?

Not all of them subscribe to the idea that they must look a certain way to please men, or something.

CabbagefromaBaby Sat 15-Jan-11 17:42:22

Lenin, do you mean that in comparison with a woman (or man?) who hates men, someone who speaks with no understanding of the female situation would be mildly treated?

How is that relevant? (sorry, don't understand)

HerBeatitude Sat 15-Jan-11 17:42:56

Coley, you've been told.

Mansplaining doesn't exist.

Except in your head. You're imagining it. Or lying about it. After all, no-one's ever done it to meeeeeeeee. <eye roll> grin

Saltatrix Sat 15-Jan-11 17:42:57

I thought he was just joking

CraigRevelPan Sat 15-Jan-11 17:42:59

No, S&B is fab. Try starting a thread on Asics Gel Kayonos. I'll join in! Or just hold your coat.grin

Saltatrix Sat 15-Jan-11 17:43:56

my post was to Cabbage

CabbagefromaBaby Sat 15-Jan-11 17:44:12

<adjusts denim skirt>

LeninGrad Sat 15-Jan-11 17:44:19

For me when I hear the word mansplainer I think something patronising or mildly irritating was said, when I see man-hater bandied about, and it is with really quite worrying regularity, I hear, well, hatred, completely unfounded at that.

CabbagefromaBaby Sat 15-Jan-11 17:44:50

Salt, Lenin is a chick smile

Saltatrix Sat 15-Jan-11 17:46:43

Just goes to show guessing sex based on a persons words doesn't really work well. smile

CabbagefromaBaby Sat 15-Jan-11 17:47:49

Chick as in woman, lass, gal, bird. Not sure which is still Ok to use. blush hope no offence.

Lenin I'm still not clear on what you mean - what, that people calling someone a man hater hate the object of their discussion, or, erm, you've lost me.

LeninGrad Sat 15-Jan-11 17:49:46

Denying someone's experience doesn't work so well either smile (general point, not saying you have, slightly losing track of names here)

All these discussions could be so much easier if people just said 'Really? That's shit', then we could move on to the revolution and all that jazz.

LeninGrad Sat 15-Jan-11 17:52:56

I'm saying that the flip or equivalent generalisation or insult to mansplaining, or those who call men on it, is man-hater and it's generally aimed (erroneously) at feminism and feminists. The insults hurled at us are truly awful. Two wrongs and all that but I'm just saying that it is a term borne out of exasperation.

CabbagefromaBaby Sat 15-Jan-11 17:53:12

Now you really have lost me. I hope I haven't denied anyone's experience. I certainly didn't seek to for any reason.

Truckulente Sat 15-Jan-11 17:53:33

Vive le revolution! Whose revolution though?

LeninGrad Sat 15-Jan-11 17:54:24

Nope, just a general point relevant to something about twenty posts ago.

CabbagefromaBaby Sat 15-Jan-11 17:54:25

X posts, sorry - I do understand, now, thankyou - yes I can see where it may have come from.

But terms borne of the battlefield are seldom useful in peacetime.

LeninGrad Sat 15-Jan-11 17:54:49

Truck, you're in.

LeninGrad Sat 15-Jan-11 17:55:48

But it's not peacetime Cabbage, women are treated appallingly, absolutely appalling everywhere, everyone should be angry about it.

Truckulente Sat 15-Jan-11 17:56:17

Hang on, there aren't any undercover police on here watching out for subversives are there?

LeninGrad Sat 15-Jan-11 17:56:50

I rather think I'm fucked if there are.

CabbagefromaBaby Sat 15-Jan-11 18:07:01

But not on this thread, are they Lenin? I meant that. By all means in the thick of it, whatever gets the point across - but surely it isn't necessary where women are NOT being treated badly?

HerBeatitude Sat 15-Jan-11 18:23:58

Cabbage, did you not notice further down the thread, that Coleysworth was told point blank by CraigPan, that mansplaining didn't exist and it was all rubbish?

That's on this thread. A perfect example of someone from a privileged group, telling someone categorically from the opposite group, that their experience is irrelevant. Mansplaining, in fact. How else could we describe it?

BoffinMum Sat 15-Jan-11 18:27:57

one handed typing. just now:

DH: hold this i have glued it
Me: i am busy i am on mn. how long will this take??
DH: till it sets. i don't know. what are you talking about on mn?
DH: Whether we like men being on there
DH: Tell them men are too busy glueing and fixing stuff for all that posting

and they say feminism is dead .... wink

BitOfFun Sat 15-Jan-11 18:28:07

I was an early adopter of 'mansplaining'- I might even have use it first on MN grin. I definitely think it exists.

CabbagefromaBaby Sat 15-Jan-11 18:28:20

I think he meant that her explanation about how it was not a generalisation /used as a generalisation was rot. Not that it didn't exist as a concept/event.

To my understanding anyway. and I agree with him...am I mansplaining, then, too? Surely I can't be, if I'm female?

CabbagefromaBaby Sat 15-Jan-11 18:30:32

I wonder if sometimes male sexist behaviour is anticipated too vehemently. So something Pan said was interpreted as something sexist by HB and something innocuous and probably correct by me?

BitOfFun Sat 15-Jan-11 18:30:56

No, a woman can't mansplain. She could still patronize the shit out of people though.

Saltatrix Sat 15-Jan-11 18:33:18

So the difference between mansplaining and being patronizing is that mansplaning requires you to be male?

Pan Sat 15-Jan-11 18:38:08

HB - I hate to upset your dismay that you are currently enjoying, but I haven't said anywhere that blokes never get all bombastic and preachy and all of the other habits associated with this term.
I said I dismissed it as a cack word as it is a gross generalsation, and can appear to be quite offensive. Coley rejects it as a generaisation and points to male privilge as a defence of it. Yes blokes, and some women IME behave like this and it's pretty frustrating.

I am not denying anyone's experience - it's just a poor term. I don't "mansplain" as you tell me I am - I am just rejecting the grossness of the term for being the inaccurate absurdity it is.

BitOfFun Sat 15-Jan-11 18:39:52

Not really, no. It is more that the patronising attitude comes from a place of the specific experience of male privilege. And they would be unlikely to talk to other men in the same way, because they don't feel the lack of respect for other men's opinions.

Truckulente Sat 15-Jan-11 18:41:32

My mum 'Mumsplains' to me when she tells me the same story 8 times in 2 days.

LeninGrad Sat 15-Jan-11 18:43:15

What BoF said.

Pan Sat 15-Jan-11 18:47:23

disagree with BoF - blokes tend to get a bit more 'competitve' when expressing opinions/giving advice/imparting information to other blokes. The scope to do this between blokes is massive.

HerBeatitude Sat 15-Jan-11 18:47:50

oh ok sorry I obviously wasn't concentrating on the thread at that point.

Don't see what's wrong with generalisations though. You can't have a proper debate if you are continually individualising everything and having the caveat of "of course not everyone in x group does this/ thinks this/ is like this etc."

I think most reasonable people understand that if you are talking about a group, you don't mean every single member of it.

Truckulente Sat 15-Jan-11 18:51:08

Are there two Pans on here?

I don't know what's going on, keep a lid on it because things are starting to simmer, people are getting steamed up, I'll get my coat.

vesuvia Sat 15-Jan-11 19:06:03

UnquietDad wrote about "mansplain". - "It's patronising because it is deliberately engineered to be so, which the man in "mankind" never was."

Really? How do you know the intention behind the creation of the word "mankind" was not to patronise? Why did they pick "mankind" rather than "peoplekind" or "humankind" or "womankind"?

Pan Sat 15-Jan-11 19:09:20

no truck - Helen at MNHQ just kindly gave me back my real name!

HB - take your point re generalisations BUT..this term has an implication with it that isn't really fair at all. IT could be as offensive as attaching any pre-fix to