to think Ian Duncan Smith is talking through his arse

[hairytriangle]

and should spend a little bit of time getting to know what he is criticising?

If you live in Merthyr town centre, it's a fifty minute journey by public transport to Cardiff City Centre - ie: two hours per day commute.

If you live on the outskirts you can add a further hour per day.

The unemployment rate in Cardiff is 8%

Levels of skills in Merthyr are well below the national average.

Train / bus fare is about £6.00 per day.

Childcare costs are around £60 per day (for one child)

There are very few jobs in the valleys - and those that are available are short term and minimum wage.

The transport infrastructure is truly crap - buses and trains are not by any stretch of the imagination adequate or timely.

25 years ago, the tories took a whole load of redundant steel/coal workers and put them on incapacity benefit, with no support or onus to get off it, to make the unemployment figures look lower. This has led to third generation unemployment and ill health due to both poverty and poverty of aspiration.

There is no industry left in the valleys.

[pompadourprincess]

Thing is he will never understand the situation normal people are in.
Until we get a PM or at least cabinet ministers that have come from being on the dole or trying to feed a wife and kids with the little money a minimum wage provides. We will always get tools spouting off that its so easy just get on bus there is loads of work if you look hard enough not taking into account the insane cost of living of the UK and the ridiculously expensive transport system we have.

[hairytriangle]

That's what I mean. They are all ex public school, and have never suffered ever in their lives. What's more, they've never had any experience of what people's real lives are like.

They have never even tried to understand the real issues!

[bubbleOseven]

I left Merthyr 20 years ago because there are no jobs there.

I did go back for a 2 year period and in that time I commuted to Cardiff.

Saw plenty of people who couldn't be arsed to do either of those though.

The worse ones in Merthyr are men who won't do call centre/care work etc etc etc "coz their dads were miners"

[bubbleOseven]

Also would like to add, my parents are also from Merthyr although they are divorced now they still live there.

My mum is a care worker and my dad is a lazy fucker. He could do care work but won't. Welsh men need to get over themselves and stop sneering at so-called "womens work"

[pompadourprincess]

Its a bit like parenting you can think how you would be a parent but until you have the bundle in your hand you don't realise how sole destroying they can be .
Same with these politicians all very well talking about how people should live but until they walk a mile in their shoes they will have no real idea.

Bubble I'm sure there are plenty of lazy men my dad was one of them we are from the south east though. But I still think in this current climate with job losses left right and centre its not as easy as he may make out.

[bubbleOseven]

No, it's not easy I agree. Should everything be easy then?

[Rhinestone]

Not saying that it's easy to find a job in certain parts of the country but not sure why this has created so much controversy.

I've always had about an hour's commute to work - why should people refuse a job on the grounds that they have to commute?

[bubbleOseven]

yes and travelling into the cities gets you a better paid job that staying locally.

[hairytriangle]

bubbleoseven what an incredible generalisation.

some of the attitudinal issues come from having been written off.

Im not saying that there are not lazy people everywhere who would rather not work, but I am saying that it's OTT to accuse everyone that doesn't work of being lazy or not being bothered to get on the bus.

Riven - who would want to spend 10-12 hours out of the house and away from their families, for minimum wage? what if there is no-one to help with childcare, what if there ae special needs in the mix,oOr split shifts, what if there are no busses or trains to get you where you need to go, when you need to?

[Sassybeast]

YABU - I'm so glad that the 'can't do therefore won't do' attitudes of those who chose to stay on benefits rather than try the alternatives are being challenged.

[BeenBeta]

While I can see that in the short term lack of transport and its cost may stop someone taking a low paid job I certainly can see that there is a certain amount of 'can't' and a certain amount of 'won't' about this problem. IDS is not out of order.

If a young person lives in an unemployment blackspot here is no excuse to just sit there for 20 years saying there is no work and its too expensive to commute.

JUST GO AND LIVE WHERE THERE IS WORK THEN!

For older people I can certainly atest that that going on incapacity benefit and men refusing to do womens' work is pretty commonplace in Newcastle where DW is from. That attitude among older men is very prevalent although younger men tended to leave, retrain or take non traditional male work.

All he is saying is go were the work is - dont sit waiting for it to come to you.

Its just common sense.

[hairytriangle]

Bubbleoseven yes, if you have the skills and qualifications and the physical ability.

Unemployment is already 8% in Cardiff - skills are at a higher level - so the unemployed there will get the work first.

[UnquietDad]

I don't doubt there are ways in which the Cabinet could better understand the needs of ordinary people. I'm a bit disappointed with IDS, as I thought he was one of those who had genuinely taken the time to do so...

This has worrying echoes of Norman Tebbit (misquoted as saying) "On yer bike"...

Having said that, as a general rule it isn't a bad idea to encourage people into the idea of looking beyond their immediate environment for work. As a general principle, taking a bus to the nearest big city isn't exactly an unreasonable proposition. In an ideal world there would be enough jobs in each small town for all the adults of working ability in that small town, but that hasn't been the case for many years. I know people who regularly do a 2-hour or more round trip to work. Is it such a big deal these days?...

I'm sure there are people already doing this who will be incensed by IDS's remarks, but I'm pretty sure there are those who are not doing it.

(The Cabinet are not all ex public school either...)

[pickledbabe]

It's not just the valleys, though, it's everywhere.

It's awful that people can't get jobs where they live.

And it's awful that they have to commute to get to work, especially when the journey is more than an hour away.
I live in Sittingbourne now, and I can only commute by train to Canterbury, not Maidstone(which is closer), because the train line doesn't go that way. (you have to change and then it takes forever ).
You end up having to go everywhere by car. But then, if you've got a low paid job, you can't afford to run a car, so you can't go to where the jobs are.

[hairytriangle]

BeenBeta but why should people leave their homes and families? It doesn't work like that for everyone. If you've been left on the scrapheap and labelled and you have very low self esteem and confidence, moving is a huge deal.

I really do believe that people who can travel to work do, in the main. Yes there are some in the 'won't' category, but do you realise the immense damage being 'parked' on incapacity benefit does after just a year? It really affects people's mental health. There are lots of people who have been literally written off - this is a true story of human suffering. ihave met many, many of them, who do not wish to be that way.

[BeenBeta]

I know of a young man who was found a job by his Dad. He got the Job and his Dad took him to work in is car for the first couple of weeks.

After a few more weeks his Dad asked him why he was not going to work. His son replied that he couldnt get to work and had lost is job as a result. His Dad asked why he had not got the bus or got a second hand bike?

His son replied he couldnt be bothered as the travelling was too difficult.

[pickledbabe]

Beenbeta: "JUST GO AND LIVE WHERE THERE IS WORK THEN!"
and turn those places that everyone has moved out of into ghost towns and make the towns and cities even more overcrowded and horrible...

[hairytriangle]

Exactly Pickled - the transport infrastructure in the valleys is very, very poor.

I can think of many scenarios where it would take four hours per day commute, plus a half hour walk from the nearest bus stip (each way)even if you don't count getting children to childcare.

[Rhinestone]

Well I don't understand what was wrong with the 'on yer bike' comment either. The country cannot afford to fund people who refuse to actively look for work / travel a bit to that workplace.

And why anyone, especially those on the minimum wage, subsidise those people through their taxes?

JSA stands for Job Seekers Allowance.

[bubbleOseven]

Oh boohoo, they've gotta move away from their mammmys.

[bubbleOseven]

I mean mammys

[BeenBeta]

Yes I am afraid so. They will be ghost towns. No town has a right to exist without an economic purpose. For the whole of history, towns have sprung up and died as local industry ebbed and flowed.

Why should people think they have a right to live in a place where there is no work and expect Govt to support them?

It is just not economically sustainable.