Am I being OTT and PFBish?

[sterrryerryoh]

Oh lordy - I honestly don?t know if I?m being a bit unreasonable PFB-ish

Another long Sterry post. Sorry!


Background: our 13 month old DS is adopted - in fact the adoption order has been granted this very week, 8 months after he came to live with us, which is amazing and gives us full parental rights, and means he is legally ours forever.

As part of the adoption order, we attend a separate court date, called the pronouncement, or celebration hearing. This is a very special formal occasion, where we sign the adoption paperwork in the Judge?s Chambers at Crown Court, and go all togged up, with professional photographers etc. very big deal. This hearing will be in the next 3 weeks.

We are inviting my parents and DH?s parents, my sister and her partner and DH?s brother and his partner. DH?s brother has a 3 year old daughter, and this is where the potential unreasonable opinion is.

I really don?t want her to come to the hearing, as she is (bless her) a bit of a spoilt young lady, who loves the limelight and being the centre of attention. I know, I know and I?m sure lots of 3 yo?s are the same, but here are a few examples.

1. On DS?s birthday when everyone was singing ?Happy Birthday? to him, she was jumping up and down on a chair screaming ?Sing to me, sing to me? at the top of her voice.
   
2. On DS?s birthday, she knocked a piece of birthday cake out of another child?s hand and said ?Mine?s gone. None for you?
   Her parents found that v funny
   
3. Whenever DS goes to his grandparents house, she refuses point blank to share ANY toy with him, let him sit in HER chair, or even eat with him. She also stated to their grandma that DS ?can?t kiss grandma?
   We let these things go - she did have grandma to herself for a long while, and I understand that it might be hard for her to understand - but nobody tries to explain it, except me and DH
   
   
   Now, the fault lies with her parents (Dh?s brother and partner) and with her grandparents (Dh?s Mum and Dad) as they constantly indulge and spoil her - they never explain that her behaviour is inappropriate and just laugh it off.
   
   It?s fine - we laughed at his party, and wrote it off as a ?funny? incident, and we would never dream of telling anyone else how to parent their child. DH?s parents are very precious-first-grandchild-ish about her, and have care for her twice a week, and she is always allowed to be the centre of attention at every and all family gathering
   
   This is why we don?t want her at the hearing. It?s very much about DS and about welcoming him to our family. It marks the end of an enormous slog to get him, and is a very formal occasion, which we have been looking forward to for a long time.
   I?m honestly not a grump, and I do understand the value and importance of family and of other children, and honestly, if she were a more easy-going child I wouldn?t have a problem. But based on ALL past experiences with her, I just know that she will ?steal the show? and I also know (and this is the problem) that her parents won?t do anything to prevent that from happening.
   
   So AIBU to not want her there? And how do I tell them that I don?t want her there?
   
   
   Gah - preparing for a bit of a flaming. Be gentle!

[scurryfunge]

She is just exhibiting normal selfish 3 year old behaviour. It would be very mean to exclude her if everyone else is invited.

[hocuspontas]

I understand your feelings completely but it would be difficult to exclude her. How would you feel if the situation was reversed?

Could you say that the court is unsuitable for young children? When I went once, a prisoner escaped in the lobby and it was scary! Good luck!

[Mercedes519]

Can you lie and say that children aren't allowed? IMO YANBU, maybe a little precious but entirely understandable in the circs and your niece sounds like the kind of child I would want to clip round the ear

[nomedoit]

YANBU. If the parents won't control their child, she won't get invited to things. That's life. Just say that you would love to see her at the party but not at the court due to courtroom etiquette.

[Fluffypoms]

she is three!?

[AgentZigzag]

Awwww congrats on the adoption being completed

I can totally see what you're saying, and that it's not the little girl it's her parents (who might feel uncomfortable pulling her up on her behaviour in front of others? Although probably not ), but you've kind of answered your own question.

The girl is part of the family and if they take her along then unless you want to rip your relationships up, you're going to have to go along with it.

It is about your lovely DS, you and your DH, and the girl can only take that specialness away from you if you let her.

You know she's like that, so I would just 'indulge' her that day and not let it bother you. Hard to do, but just don't give her behaviour any of your attention, no matter how loud she is.

Hope your day goes brilliantly

[sterrryerryoh]

Do you really think it would be mean, Scurry? Oh dear, that?s what I was afraid of. It was the other way round, it wouldn?t bother me at all.
It?s only other adults who are coming and very close family - we are having a naming ceremony the week after, which everyone is invited to, and she will be very welcome there.

Our social worker did suggest that not many children go to these occasions, because it is quite dull, and because the adopted child really has to be made to feel that it?s all about him/her. Obviously with DS being so young, that is less the case than with an older adopted child, but I just know that she will exhibit ?normal 3 year old behaviour? and my concern is that her parents will just shrug and laugh it off.
It?s not a big deal to them, but it?s the biggest day of our lives

[withorwithoutyou]

Well, firstly HUGE congratulations on your DS.

I think that YANBU in that it doesn't sound like the right environment for any three year old guest.

(I also understand your show-stealing concerns but would probably keep those to myself in your shoes)

[Hopefully]

She doesn't sound completely awful (or maybe I know a lot of awful 3yo!), but nonetheless I think if you don't want her there you shouldn't have to have her there. Although I would probably:

a) lie/bend the truth about kids (apart from the child being adopted) not being welcome in court due to noise/security/whatever
b) do your utmost to help them find childcare, even if it means looking for a local nanny/friend of yours who is free for the day (not suggesting you pay for it, just help find childcare)
c) invite her to any after party you're having, if you can bear to.

[bigstripeytiger]

Most courts arent great places for children to go. I understand that your DS has to be there, but apart from that I wouldnt encourage children.

[LilRedWG]

Just say adults only. I totally get where you are coming from - there's one in our family too. Sigh.

Congratulations on your son.

[sterrryerryoh]

Thanks for being gentle with me!

AgentZ - the relationship with DH?s brother isn?t particularly a close one - we would never dream of excluding them from this day, but we don?t see them very often, and tbh I don?t THINK they would mind if we didn?t invite her - (but I could be completely wrong)
I just wondered if I was being a pain-in-the-ass Mummy for thinking these things

Mercedes - I did think about lying. That?s bad, though, isn?t it!?
Gah! I knew I was being precious! haha

[MumInBeds]

I'd have a word with her parents before and explain that the SW says it is a bit long, dull and formal so children don't usually attend. If they think she is able to cope with it then they'd be welcome to bring her but they might want to bring quite things to keep her amused so they don't have to take her out part way through if she gets bored and noisy.

[Omarlittlest]

First congratulations hope you will truly have a wonderful celebration

but YABU- honestly read this post back when your ds is three and you will see that this is pretty normal behaviour , and families come in all shapes and sizes thats kind of the point - i really think you should just enjoy having them all there and dont take to heart a three year olds behaviour -

[theowlwhowasafraidofthedark]

Hmmm, this is what 3 year olds can be like. Try and imagine the situation is reversed and they don't invite you precious ds. I think it would definitely cause resentment if you didn't invite her to the ceremony.
Congratulations by the way.

[sterrryerryoh]

Oh, and I honestly didn?t mean she?s an awful child. She?s not - she?s lovely most of the time. She?s just a little show stealer, who is ALWAYS indulged, and I don?t mind at all normally. Just not on this day!!!

[sterrryerryoh]

I wouldn?t mind if it was the other way round. DS gets excluded from quite a lot of things in the family, because he?s adopted and some of them haven?t really accepted that. And please don?t think I think she?s out of the ordinary - I know lots of 3 year olds, and I know that she?s totally normal - I just want one day!

[scurryfunge]

If it means her parents can't attend if she is not invited then I think it would be a bit mean.

I understand that the court is not the ideal place for a child and if no other children are attending, I can see that it would be an ideal opportunity to play up if she gets bored.

Would your family be offended?

Congratulations!

[diddl]

I wouldn´t exclude her but ask her parents to take things to occupy her & be willing to take her out if necessary?

It´s not her fault, is it & no one´s doing her any favours by allowing this.

Perhaps she will be "subdued" in the formal situation?

[adoptionnamechanger]

sterry its really not the place for children who don't understand whats going on. I had only adults at DS's final hearing, it wasn't about being precious or excluding anyone but it felt like a really momentous moment for DS and I and the (few) people invited were carefully selected to share what was actually a very momentous event for us.

If they have no-one to leave her with then there are rooms that one of them can stay with her outside the court room.

I wouldn't have wanted a 3 yr old there whilst I was giving birth either and if I'm honest thats how it felt - very intimate, very moving. Its the final point at which you have little say over who is allowed to poke around in your family life. It's not a big jolly party like some people seem to imagine so do what you feel comfortable with because you can't change it later.

I think you may actually need permission to bring a child anyway. Also make sure that you have dispensation to bring a camera to court and have the permission with you (we didn't have an official photographer and nearly didn't have any photos at all).

[LilRedWG]

Street - the little showstealer in our family is almost 7 and I would exclude him for the same reasons as you. It's not as though there will be otherchildren invited and just not her. A court is for adults anyway.

[Firawla]

I would just go with the line about the court part not being suitable for children, and invite her to party afterwards. Seems like the best comprimise

[AgentZigzag]

'because he?s adopted and some of them haven?t really accepted that'

That's so sad, and must hurt you both.