Neocate Active sachets

[flikka]

My son has a dairy allergy. As he can't take soya either he has Neocate special dairy free formula on prescription. I give him Neocate 5 times a day - breakfast, midmorning, lunch, mid-afternoon and at dinner / bed-time. We have found the optimum amount to offer is 120ml each time. Somtimes he drinks all of this, sometimes not. This totals 600ml a day. As he has just turned one and we have been given Neocate Active for the over-one year olds. The dietician and SHS (the distributor) suggest 2 sachets per day. 2 sachets (happily for us) equal 600ml/day once you have added water.

I would hope this product has been well designed from a nutritional point of view, but have shaky confidence in it all round now given how badly it is designed from the perspective of actually using it in daily life.

So, how do you split up 2 sachets of 63g each into 5 portable amounts of powder that you can take with you in the kind of readily available powder dispensers available at Boots? With Neocate tins there was no problem. You knew how much water to add per scoop, then scooped the requisite amount into your portable powder dispenser, took your bottles of water with you for the day, and bingo. Ease and flexibility in one fell scoop.

Lets say I follow SHS' guidelines (which i got on the phone with them as they are not explicit on the packet). You are supposed to make up your formula in advance and keep it in the fridge. Here are the problems with this:

1. how do you split up 63g * 2 into 5 lots of 120ml?
   Ok, ok, you can make it up as two packets worth of formula at the beginning of the day. BUT, here are the immediate limitations. You have to make up your formula in advance, which many parents do not want to do as it increases the risks of bacterial growth. And, you are tied to your fridge all day, or you have to buy some kind of cooler package which is yet more bulky baggage to lug around. And you cannot be certain of their efficacy. And then you need to also take with you some kind of warming up device. Or of course you are limited to trips one hours distance from your house before you have to throw the forumla away. Well done SHS. Real flexibility there. Bravo. Fabulous planning. Actually, SHS refuse to say how long their forumla lasts out of the fridge. Inspires confidence, doesn't it - the manufacturer doesn't know or won't say for how long their own product is stable in ordinary circumstances! Personally I would stick to common sense, government guidelines, health visitor advice the unanimous opinion of parenting books - throw it away after an hour before the bacteria, encouraged by milk, warmth and your toddler's saliva, start multiplying.
   
2. Imagining there is an answer to 1)and i give my son his first 120ml at breakfast. We then go out til suppertime. I need to take 3 * 120ml of formula with me. How do I do this, considering that we don't expect to have to a) be tied to a 1 hour radius from the house or b) to invest in cooling bags and warming up equiipment, much less cart it around with us .
   
3. SHS says you are supposed to serve this product chilled. How do you realistically suppose a baby that is used to having room temperature drinks will take chilled drinks? And who in their right mind honestly thinks it is acceptable to get parents of 1 year olds to start heating up drinks? Even if it was possible to get a portable bottle warmer to fit a beaker cup with handles!!!
   
   Perhaps someone could get SHS to do a little product testing on parents rather than just dieticians before they launch new products that are so badly packaged. Strangely enough, a very nice lady i spoke to in Ireland said that the sachets were launched "for convenience (!!!) when out and about". The person i spoke to in the UK was defensive, rude, patronising, stupid and wrong. Sloping shoulders, she just told me to go away and talk to my dietician. When I asked how I could split up the powder into 5 equal portions, the same charming person suggested that kitchen scales were hardly up to the job.
   
   It is so frustrating that this has been caused by poor planning around something so simple as packaging, and that a good solution (Neocate tins) has been completely undermined by something as obvious as the need for a little forethought in actual using the product.
   
   I don't believe there is a solution to these problems and so i find this product unusuable but somehow we need to give our son a milk substitute. I would love to hear from anyone who can come up with some answers, expecially a way of splitting up the powder. Of course, I could use 5 sachets a day and waste a minimum of 180ml of formula per sachet, assuming my son drinks the full 120ml, which he seldom does. So that would be a wasteage of a minimum 900ml/day. Maybe that's what SHS is trying to get us to do. But I don't think that's right.
   
   Perhaps then the more realistic answer is to find a substitute product. Does anyone know of one?

[trixymalixy]

My 1 year old is also allergic to dairy.

I actually still breastfeed him, but I only do this twice a day once in the morning and once before bed.The rest of the day he drinks rice milk with calcium.

AFAIK if your baby was on normal formula or cow's milk he wouldn't be having it 5 times a day anyway, probably just in the morning and at bedtime which is probably why 2 sachets are recommended. By 1 solids should make up the majority of nutritional needs.

[jasperc163]

Flikka

My daughter is on Neocate Active (we have in turn had Neocate, Neocate Advance and now the Active) and is 2.4. She has 1.5 sachets a day made up at the more concentrated level in a bottle first thing and last thing. This is on dieticians and paed recommendation as she is also an extremely fussy eater and needs the extra protein and vits .

At 1 wouldnt it be more normal for 'milk' to just be morning and bedtime rather than throughout the day?

I premake 2 sachets worth at a time (as it is consumed in less than 24hrs and i don't use it during the day) but if you want to be able to go out and about with the powder then the only thing i can suggest is to get a sachet and see how many tablespoon (or whatever) kitchen measures it is. Then you can easily work out how many measures you need per bottle?

I do agree though that these sachets are a pain and a tub would be much better. Also why 63g per sachet! At least the old ones were 100g - a nice easy round number.

hth
alice

[jasperc163]

ps meant to say - i think the consume cold thing is just about it tasting better. However if you DS like my daughter is very used to the taste (she's been on it since 3 months) then this is fairly irrelevant. My daughter drinks it at 'tap' temperature when i have made it up.

[flikka]

Great news - SHS have got back to me. They are going to work with my dietician to make a plan. They said they normally do expect us to make up the sachets in advance & refrigerate but if he is drinking room temp then it is important not to disrupt what he is used to. They understood it was not really on to start chilling / reheating when we haven't been doing that.

We were told to give only milk as a drink for the first year as the nutritional needs are high and present in milk / milk substitute but not in water / juice. At 5 weeks when the condition was finally diagnosed I asked about rice milk which i'd seen in the supermarket, but they said there was not enough nutrients for that age and they haven't suggested we drop Neocate in favour of any other liquid now he is one.

It is interesting i have heard a few mothers are surprised he is offered 5 drinks a day. I also breastfeed him first and last thing but don't think he gets much now. SHS said it was common for 1yr olds to drink more but less often. However much i might be told it's ok to only offer milk 3 * day I wouldn't be able to do it. I would be too worried that he was thirsty and couldn't say so or not getting enough nutrition.

It is funny there seems to be much less advice around now compared to the early days, or maybe i just feel too busy to look for it now (we did a big move a few months ago, to new town / big house / no furniture / no social network etc). I have no idea how other mums feed /look after their kids in comparison. My parents generation are no real yardstick as they did things so differently & it was a long time ago for them to remember!

I will ask at the local toddler groups too to see how many drinks other mums give. I restarted breastfeeding at 2 months after stopping completely at 3 weeks due to illness. He did not put on weight for several weeks as he was not getting enough (very stressful period with lots of contradictory advice!) & so since then i have been fairly obsessive about ensuring he is offered a drink frequently. After that it took me months & months to believe he could go through the night safely without a drink. I would keep waking up even when not woken! Also, he is very boisterous and will not stop for long to drink which is another reason i offer frequently.

Btw, do you still boil your water for the 1yr old+? DS turned one on Fri. I am still sterilising for now but will stop soon. I started mixing with tap water instead of boiled in last 2 weeks though the neocate packet still says use boiled. The dietician said she had to say what the manufacturer says but seemed to be suggesting tap was fine.

[flikka]

PS some stuff here on rice / coconut milk www.actagainstallergy.com/aaa/11256-rice-milk-option.html

[jasperc163]

Flikka,
Depending on your son's eating habits (with solids) you may be told to stay on Active for a few years (DD's paed said she may be on it up to 5yrs) as it is a good source of protein as well as vits/mins (and this one has much higher calcium and iron levels than the other Neocates). It helps both my daughter and me as I know that if she is being diffiucult about food, at least she gets some nutrition from her 2 bottles of Neocate.

As far as thirst goes, does DS not drink water (or juice)? My DD has always had water with her and drinks quite alot. She had 3 bottles (first thing, lunch (after her 'solids' meal before she went for a nap, and last thing before bed) til she was about 1.5years if that helps.

I dont remember boiling water after a year.

[trixymalixy]

Flikka, tbh the sachets sound like a good idea to me for the majority of people who give their one year old milk twice a day. I understand that it's a pain for you as you want to give him milk more often.

Personally I think the best solution for you is to give your
DS half a sachet 4 times a day, which would be easier for you to measure out, and give him something else to drink with his lunch.

That way he will possibly eat more of his solids at lunch rather than filling up with milk.

Alternatively could you not just move back onto normal Neocate.

Thanks for the info on rice milk. The reason I give my DS rice milk is that the dietician wanted me to try and give him more calcium rather than giving him water to drink. She was quite happy about his weight gain and that he would be getting enough nutrients from my breast milk and his solids, but felt that he could do with some more calcium in his diet.

I didn't boil water for a drink after a year.

[flikka]

Thanks for the messages. I will ask the dietician what they think about replacing some of the milk with water.

We just started using the sachets today as they said it was better to use them and waste some until we work out a solution. It is not that easy to measure out half a sachet without wasting the other half yet but i'm sure it will get easier.

I actually also put some in the fridge today to see if he would drink it cold and he drank all of it. He had missed his afternoon milk as we were out and about and he just had water which he doesn't like much, so i think he was v keen for it. I think 4 milks and a water is going to be easiest as you say. I don't want to give him juice because of the sugar.

I'm not keen on using cooler bags as i don't think they keep the milk fridge temperature (?) and i don't like the idea of milk hanging around to drink that isn't properly chilled. Any views on this? But splitting up sachets is a pain so I looked to see if there were cooler bags we could use on made up formula when going out. But the ones i saw were bottle shaped for 2 baby bottles, and not big enought for toddler beakers. I want to be able to take at least 2 beakers-worth around if we use them. Does anyone know of beaker sized cooler bags that are not huge to carry around?

[trixymalixy]

I have an m&s lunch bag that I use with a gel ice pack that would probably fit two toddler beakers and it was also v cheap. I'm pretty sure they still sell them.

I was also wondering whether your DC should be having more drinks other than the neocate. I think with babies on formula you are supposed to give them water as well to stop them dehydrating. I'm not 100% sure about this, but I think I read something to that effect somewhere.

[flikka]

Thx Trixy. I did some research a while ago on the whole juice / water / milk thing and heard that (and this is just under 1yr, i don't know about after that) juice is a no-no because of sugar & teeth & water doesn't give them the nutrients they need. But i will bring the whole question up with the dietician when she gets back to me.

Gotta say I'm not enjoying making up the formula in advance. Before i saw yr msg I found a polar-something bag in Boots which i think it mostly for food, but i can get 2 beakers in. It's supposed to keep food / drink cool for 3 hours, but i don't know how cool it keeps the milk & i don't like taking the risk that the milk is hanging around unchilled. Also, I still don't find the solution v practical - for instance, today we made up 2 milks from 1 sachet & went out withe the coolbag straight after breakfast for a few hours. The second milk had only had 10 mins in the fridge so i don't know how it was meant to stay cool. Those are the kind of limitations that i'm finding frustrating at the mo... I thought about trying to make up 300ml when we're out and about from 1 sachet & giving him just some of it, but we don't have a 300ml beaker to measure it in. We've invested in about 5 beakers @4.00 each of a special type that convert according to the drinking stage he's at & i don't want to just throw them all away and buy a new set. I'm fed up with changing things so much as it is. Taking a measuring jug with us has got to be verging on the ludicrous!

[flikka]

Forgot to say - the polar thingy is HUGE...and now i can't get my shopping in the under-buggy shopper (we walk everywhere a lot and don't use a car much to shop)....b* hell! Rant over.

[victoria1303]

Hi there

63g x2 = 126gramms ./. 5 = 25.2 g

Using a scale, divide the contents of two sachets in five dry portions of 25.2g. Each sachet of 63g is to be dissolved in 250mls, giving you an endvolume of 300mls! For two sachets you are going to need 2x250mls = 500mls; Therefore for a portion of 25.2g, you are going to need: 500mls ./.5 = 100mls of water, giving you an endvolume of 120mls for each portion of 25.2g!
120 mls x 5 = 600mls, OK? If you are out, use a thermo-flask and a measure to make up each portion of 25.2g to a volume of 120mls. But you can use a milkbottle if you haven't a measure. You pack your powder in alufoil or use a scoop and find out how many scoops are needed to make up 25.2g ( or 25g to simplify).

[victoria1303]

the message above is link to the comment on how to use neocate active sachets.

[stockley76]

Hi There
Confused!! My daughter is 14mths old and been taken of Nutramigem and put on Neocate active. She still take a bottle 3hrly due to weaning issues. How do I make this up now as no instructions.
Can you not do it like before 1 scoop of formula per 1oz of water. HELP!!

[freefrommum]

I sachet of Neocate Active can be mixed with between 190ml and 250ml of cold water. You need to roll the bottle between your hands first then shake REALLY well as it's difficult to mix.