dairy intollerance in ebf newborn

[feekerry]

will try not make this too epic but really need some opinions/advice.
ds is 7 wks old. ebf and gaining weight very well. he was reffered to a pead for extreme fussing/uncomfortable behaviour. they suggested cmpi intolerance. his main symptoms that concern me are:

• very fussy feeder,pulls on and off, looks like he hates feeding!
  

-v bad wind/gas.
-grunts,strains and writhes around looking in pain. esp at night

• cries and draws legs up
  
• liquid poo and doesn't go often
  
• wakes alot at night but then just fusses at the boob
  
• little bits of sick and hiccups
  
• seems to have perm snuffle
  

he has a partial lip tie but apparently doesnt affect him. i don't think its reflux as he is fine lying down and often fine to go to sleep.

i have been mostly dairy free for 4 weeks but find it hard to stick to. esp trying to plan meals for the family but havent had dairy in its raw form.
so, do these symptoms sound like cmpi? what is it that i can't eat? for eg, am i okay to have a tiny bit of milk in tea?
hv has me doubting it is cmpi as she said its v rare in bf babies and we have no allergies in family inc prev dc's
how strict do i have to be? literally all food i have seen (soups , crisps etc) all seem to contain dairy in some form...
thank you

[feekerry]

okay thanks for that.
stupid question are soy and soya the same thing??

[TheGreatHunt]

Have you ruled out tongue tie? Because that can cause very similar symptoms.

[dozily]

Has there been any improvement in his symptoms since you went dairy free? If not then it's probably something else...

[feekerry]

thegreat he has an upper lip tie but no tt. took him to a lactation consultant to get it diagnosed. apparently its a partial one and they won't do anything about it as upper lip ties aren't much of a feeding issue. they said he can flail his top lip sufficiently to latch. feeding doesn't hurt me at all but i know his latch isn't great.
i also have loads off milk and jet like let downs which seem to upset him but poo is normal colour.

dozily initially i thought i did see an improvement but dairy has sneaked in to my diet but only small amounts and i honestly didn't think a table spoon of milk here and there would make a difference. i swing between thinking i am just being fobbed off and its something else to thinking it is a cmpi.

[TheGreatHunt]

Was the lactation consultant confident with tongue ties? My dd had a posterior tongue tie (harder to diagnose - took me many visits!) And lip tie. Even though she could flange her top lip, she had huge trouble from the lip tie and her latch was rubbish at times despite having her tonguetie cut.

If latch isn't great then he will be taking down air even if you don't think so and this can cause the cmpi style symptoms.

I would get a second opinion on the tongue tie tbh.

[TheGreatHunt]

Where are you? My second lactation consultant was a tongue tie expert. The first one wasn't.

[TheGreatHunt]

tongue tie symptoms

[fanjobiscuits]

If you go dairy free do make sure you get enough calcium from alternative food and/or supplements. Baby will be fine through your bm but will leech your bones if necessary.

I have been df for months now and honestly hardly notice any more. Baby weight has also dropped off beautifully.

[feekerry]

quiet ye i agree that i need to be strict but get so down beat about it when i have been v strict then we have a really bad few days.
thegreat i left.feeling a bit meh about her but she was v thorough and she did with a bit of tweaking get quite a good latch on me bit its when he is tired /fussy not so easy to replicate.
i have been given the name of a private one who is supposed to be excellent and i am seriously considering paying the fee to get her out. it is expensive tho.
sometimes (when v hungry) he feeds fine and latch okay.
thing is his farts really stink. rotton. which make me think its diet. how can a ebf baby have farts smell that bad??

[fanjobiscuits]

Also my baby had upper lip tie and cmpi (!) plus posterior tongue tie. Had to fix all before issues resolved. Df diet made a big difference but symptoms only totally went after ties sorted and latch worked on with lactation consultant.

[TheGreatHunt]

I was exactly the same. I had good feeds and bad feeds. But it took 12 long weeks to get someone to figure out dd had quite a bad tongue tie. I wish I had pushed harder because I kept getting fobbed off.

Do you wind after each feed? I would and sometimes it would take 20 mins to get anything out. But it would make such a difference.

Dd and ds also had dairy intolerance but cutting out dairy/soya didn't work because of the tongue\lip tie.

You can't really do an elimination diet without ruling everything out. I came onto mn many many times until someone suggested it was the tongue tie and that made me push it.

[feekerry]

i do try wind him but he is up every 90 mins to 2 hours thru the night and takes him about 10mins to fall asleep again as he is writhing and farting away so at times winding takes ages so i prob don't do it enough.
he doesn't seem to wake with hunger, more with pain/gas.
maybe i should pay the fee and just get a decent lc out and talk it all thru.
those who dc's had lip ties...did they also have tt? the lc told me he has a lip tie but def not tt.... also was tie lip tie snipped?

[noblegiraffe]

It could just be your forceful letdown which can cause many similar symptoms:

kellymom.com/bf/got-milk/supply-worries/fast-letdown/

I would try some of the tips on there first as it's easier than excluding dairy, and it would be a shame if you excluded dairy and it got better because your supply settled down but you though it was the dairy so continued to exclude it.

[TheGreatHunt]

Yes dd had both TT and lip tie. The lactation consultant told me that you usually get both together. Lip wasn't snipped though as they don't normally do it in the UK. Also speak to your HV as they may have an NHS clinic for tongue tie (they do in London)

[feekerry]

ye my milk supply is crazy so that won't help!
the additional winding helped last night. got 2x 3 hr stretches which was great.
the lc has confirmed they don't treat lip tie.

[josephine1986]

Don't you see different stools with cmpi?
My dd has suspected cows milk allergy which has very similar symptoms but with rashes (face, butt), watery crusty eye/s and abnormal poos (stringy, mucousy, spinach green til I removed dairy)
In our case excluding dairy (entirely, traces, everything) and soy helped a great deal, but it was only when I spoke to a dietitian and considered my food diary did I see she is also allergic to fish.
In your position I would keep a food diary but not eliminate any more. See if symptoms are worse after eating dairy - if it's intolerance there will be a correlation. With an allergy it's quite obvious.

[TheGreatHunt]

OK the additional winding indicates that you may have a tongue tie issue (I would speak to a LC over the phone to see if it is possible without commiting to them coming over).

The other option is over supply so your milk shoots out so much that they take down loads of air. I had this with my first. Block feeding helped (basically feeding from one boob only per feeding session. If you do that already then use the same side twice two feeds in a row). The aim is to slow down your flow a bit. It does naturally settle down at about 12 weeks anyway.

[feekerry]

you have all been so helpful thanks.... i really appreciate it
hv was out today. ds has put on plenty of weight and jumped up a centile so in her opinion he is thriving. she watched me feed and agreed he was fussy but also commented on poor latch and my poor position (lazy slouch!)
she has put me in touch with a feeding nurse who is going to help with positioning him better so he is not gulping as much air.
the extended winding def made a difference tho. first time in weeks we have had a 3 hr stretch at night.

[Superworm]

DS gets terrible wind with any traces of dairy and soy. I have to be super strict with eliminating it completely out of our diets.

He also has TT & lip tie. TT was snipped three times but is still there. Lip tie was just left. Both ties have gotten much easier as he grew. Positioning has been key really. I saw a lactation consultant privately for a while to support me with feeding which was worth every penny. There is do much mixed info it helped just to have one source.