Misguided views about adoption: I've had some, maybe because my experience with the care system.....(42 Posts)
Okay, hands up, I'm very new to this site, and ventured into a thread about adoption (where I don't think I should have) and I have expressed my apologies for doing so. And I hope they accept my apologies also.
I have had some experience with the care system, I was 'thrown out' of my home (I came from a very wealthy family, but my mum left when I was 11, my dad moved in a 'new young girlfriend who didn't want children, hence, I was thrown out) - my brother was 5 years older, but the 'girlfriend' was quite close to his age, so no probs there, funny enough -
I went through some problems at school, mainly because I was left on my own at home whilst my Dad and his new girlfriend where on nights outs all the time, two week holidays from the Dominican republic to Mexico, and as my mum was nowhere to be seen, and my brother was so much older, and maybe because I was quite resilient, not a health care professional in sight, until I started 'missing school' - and then it came down to ' I have behaviour issues:
There was no looking into my neglect at home, merely it was me, my behaviour, which looking back now was so wrong
I was 'thrown' out at 14, into a 'childrens home' sleeping in a room with a girl who had doused her step dad in petrol meaning to set him alight - my horrific experiences with the care system only start there, but ever since I stepped one inch into the care system there was not a social worker in sight - not one, from horrific foster parents fostering because they wanted a 'conservatory', to ones where I had to wait until their son was asleep in a bed so they could move him to his sisters room, so I could sleep in his bed, only to wake and move me every morning before he woke up in the morning so they could move him back to 'his room' -
I have shared some horrific experiences of my past now, so I would appreciate no 'come backs' or put downs, My life is now a world away, I have a beautiful husband, children, a successful business and things are sweet
However, I'm still under the view that there are a lot of children being taken from mothers/families where there couldn't have been some sort of support, maybe its just me coming from the other side, forever the optimistic maybe - I didn't have the loving parents wanting to keep me, they wanted me out because I disrupted their 'social lives'.
But I have a family now I adore, and loving, adoptive parents aside, which I'm sure you all are, my experience with the 'fostering' side (and I was past through 10 of them before I moved in with my friend) was horrendous -
(I did eventually pass all my exams and had a very successful career in publishing, so maybe there's a plus side to 'digging yourself out of a hole lol')
For anyone who has taken the time to read my 'vent' thanks x Believe it or not its been quite very cathartic to type it xx
Taff I'm just on my way out for the evening but didn't want to read and run. I think you might be talking about a thread I started? If so, no hard feelings, I'm not sure about the finer points of netiquette myself. I will start another thread if I need some more support. I could/can see you are trying to share your experience from the other side and hope it hasn't been too painful for you.
Mary, my apologies for getting involved in your previous thread, yes I have had some experiences, but in no way should they have taken over your post, that's my inexperience of the 'discussion' network, and I really do apologise, which is why I posted my personal experience -
I did it for selfish reasons to be honest, I needed to get it out, without exploding on other threads, I just don't have alot of faith in the care system , but that's not to say I don't respect adoptive mums, just the people who's decision it is x
I'm glad it was cathartic for you to write about your experiences. I'm sorry you had such a bad experience with the care system
It's fantastic that you have such a great life now
My Parents didn't love me, actually my mum always told me from a young age she didn't want a girl and wished I was a boy.
I'm sure they did love us when me and my brother where young, but when they got older and started to argue more and more they decided they loved their lives more than us kids, and when they separated they couldn't disagree quick enough on who should have me, my brother was older hence less of a harrassment into their social lives.
I Just really think social services should look more into the homes such as the one I came from.
I mentioned about being loved by parents, and maybe this was a good basis to work from, because I was not loved, I was totally neglected, by very selfish parents, who continue to this day to blame me for being put in care-
Yes this is painful because I have never discussed it, but I would have given anything, I still would, to have had parents who loved me x
im so so sorry
well done on coming out the other side and being a loving parent to your children.
I think I got so upset over the previous adoption thread as it was mentioned totally about children being taken away from parents on the whole who did love their children, even in some experiences who fought for them, they just couldn't care for them fully because of certain things???
If a child is ever 'at risk' I totally agree with being replaced into another more caring family, but I just, maybe forever the optomist, just wish in some certain circumstances there wasn't at least a way to offer some more help -
I don't know -
MzPix thank you for your kind words, I'm just venting though, i'm pretty sure there are people out there who have been through worse x
However, I'm still under the view that there are a lot of children being taken from mothers/families where there couldn't have been some sort of support
What do you base that view on? I'm not being snarky, but it sounds like a pretty unfounded view to me. Removing a child is a long process requiring a lot of evidence, and the courts will always expect to see the results of expert assessments (in addition to social worker reports) and what has been done to support the parents to keep the child. It's almost impossible to get to the point of removal without a lot of support and interventions being provided prior to that point.
I just hope they have kids now have kind people caring for them like you, not the whole variety of 'carers' who just wanted money who I had the misfortune of meeting -
One woman 'fostering me', when I was 14 and sleeping on her floor, complained that I put make up on her pillow, woke me up when she was drunk and back from work at 1am, and kicked me out on the street, wouldn't let me phone anyone, with her 14 year old son laughing at mee in the background -
I slept on the streets that night, in the snow
Eirk This is not a thread for rows, just giving my personal experience with the care system -
You asked 'what do I base my views on'?? The forever hope that maybe a family that's just in need would be offered some additional support before a loving adoptive parent takes on and loves that child -
I don't think you've read this thread?
Before I get totally lynched for knocking adoptive parents, as Eirikur seems to want to accuse me of, I would just like to make this point totally clear;
Every single post I have read on here from adoptive, and want to be adoptive parents has filled my heart with nothing but adoration and hope for the children they have taken on the responsibility for.
My experiences with the care system aside, what I have read here has made me more postitive -
Is there a fostering thread on this site?
Yes taffleee you can post in the fostering section
Sorry rosh but can't find?? Maybe this thread was better of there x
I think if what you want to discuss is what support there is pre-adoption you will probably get a wider range of experiences from the fostering section. Most adopters only get involved in those cases where there has already been an adoption decision made. As I said on the previous thread you do need to consider that overall the number of children with a plan for adoption is generally around 3-4,000 compared with over 90,000 looked after children so a plan for adoption is even in the context of only those children who are looked after a very small percentage. If you worked out what percentage of children were adopted comapred to the number of children "known" to social services but not looked after then the percentage would be smaller again.
I'd be surprised if adoption even accounted for a whole 1% of childrne whose parents were struggling in some way. Which doesn;t really support your feelings.
Of course there are children who if their paretns had been properly supported might have remained with them and also situation where the decision to remove the child was unfair but in my experience (ie none!) it is rare.
The propensity is not to remove rather than to remove. I agree that certain things act against you which should be addressed.
The fostering section is here if you want it
If you want a wider discussion about the care system, and the process that leads to a child being removed and placed for adoption, then you might prefer to post in chat, here because you are more likely to get lots of responses. There are quite a few people on Mumsnet who have a lot of knowledge of the system, but most won't look at the adoption or fostering boards
Yes I've read the thread, I'm not looking for a row nor to accuse you of knocking adopters. I'm asking why you have a belief that lots of parents whose children are removed and placed for adoption could have kept them, if only they had more support. It's a strange view to hold without evidence, especially when most evidence points to the contrary position, ie that every effort is made to keep children with parents and adoption is relatively rare.
I don;t think Eirikur was accusing you of anything - she questioenned whether your "feeling" that there are a lot of children being taken from mothers/families is in fact the reality.
I have many many friends who have adopted and acquaintances through them of many more and I haven't yet come across a case where it was safe to leave the child with the birth parent any longer. Some children had been left too long as it is - all I know came to adoptive parents either significantly physically or sexually abused or very young and drug addicted at birth whose paretns have not been able to address their lifestyle enough to safely parent a child (there are many functioning drug and alcohol addicted paretns).
Unfortunately in your case I suspect the real issue is a lack of resources. If you have a huge case load, who will you spend the time on - the 2 year old who has just been filmed by neighbours being thrown against the wall and now has a borken arm or the teenager who parents say is acting out and are happy for them to go into a group home and/or foster care.
I agree that the standard of foster care is patchy. From excellent to diabolical.
I also have come across cases where birth parents are given support/chances eg mother and baby units but don't seem to grasp thats it often (due to resources) a one shot deal. Fuck up and you're out.
There are interesting initiatives which are becoming more common eg when childrne are on teh at risk register (or whatever its called these days) pre-birth they are often placed in immediate foster care with a view to encouraging birth family to step up to the plate. Concurrent planning can last up to 6-9 months I think and about 15% of birth family do manage to succesfully parent the child.
OP, I am so sorry you have had to go through what you did, it isn't fair and it isn't right.
I am so glad you have a family and are doing so well despite your awful beginnings.
I can't imagine what it must have been like and thank my lucky stars everyday I was adopted by my parents, who were wonderful.
I have heard of stories like yours and I find it so disgusting that nobody was there to make it all stop and give you the security you needed.
Kew But at the time I wasn't aware of the 'lack of resources ' I was just a child in need -
I'm talking on this thread of my own personal experiences, and how it affected ME! Not hypertheticly or how it may effect others, just my own personal experience - from being within the care system -
I didn't know how others where more 'in need' at the time, just that I nearly died one night from sleeping in the snow, from being kicked out by a 'foster mum', because I put make up on her pillow.............. hyperthermia from a foster mum after being also kicked in the face at 1am - does that put me in the 'bracket'??/
Morethan thank you, and i'm so glad for you, ive been in tears writing this, and I'm so glad you've been adopted by such loving parents and you feel loved now -
I wish I had parents who loved me though, I miss just not having that mum person - and so love your post morethan
Why am I crying so much.............
taffleee, I think you keep leaping from your own personal experience to making generalised statements about fostering and adoption today, and it's a bit confusing for the rest of us to know how you want us to respond.
In any case, it is several years since you were fostered and many things have changed.
There's no shame in having a thread all about you - most people would need to reflect on the awful stuff you've been through. Why not start a thread in Chat, where you will reach a wider group of posters?
Morethan the one thing you have said that has really hit home is just having that one person that can make it all stop -
Its ridiculous how much that hits home, and so true - x
Devora this thread is just about a personal point of view - I'm not leaping, just responding -
Thanks for 'belittling' me, you do have the right to not comment on my thread, you know
I wasn't suggesting you should have been aware of the lack of resources
I thought you wanted to discuss why there wasn't more support for parents before their children were taken into care. One of the reasons is lack of resources. I tied it back to your case because you used it as an example of how more support should have been given.
I Just really think social services should look more into the homes such as the one I came from. I was commenting (at one point) about this.
You read belittlement and accusation where there is none.
eirik thanks for calling my total life 'weird' - I cried my heart out writing my personal experience with the care system, only to have you call me 'weird' -
One other reason for posting on Chat might be that the relatively small number of posters on the adoption board may soon give up responding to you, as everything we say seems to cause offence.
Not at all Devora , in fact if you had read this thread, Morethan posted her personal experience in response to me, which was very lovely and most appreciated-
I did start this thread, and you have the right to comment - I don't take offence lightly, but please, I did express some personal experiences, if you don't think you can contribute to the thread, just dont post??
Taffleee, it sounds like you had horrific experiences in care. Are you still in touch with your birth family?
taffleee I am so sorry for your awful experiences. I am very pleased you have made such a success of your life with a marriage, family and career. I wonder if you have ever had any counselling to help you process all the terrible things that happened to you. My friend lost her mum at 11 (to cancer) and went rather 'off the rails' in her teens and twenties. In fact I know several people who (while children or teenagers) have lost their mums either because they died or left. It must be terrible and I am sure can be very damaging and even worse when compounded by the experiences you have had.
I have not had any such experiences but I have had quite a bit of counselling over the years for anxiety, infertility and other things. I have found it to be very healing, freeing and helpful. I would recommend it. I only say this because you have said you are crying so much, these tears can be very helpful in helping you to know how deeply these things are affecting you. I know you have said you are a very positive person and that is brilliant. I am too. But I think that getting help to process and heal the memories of the past is very useful for some.
I am not as experienced as others in the current care system so cannot comment on that, and I am not trying to discourage you from talking, I just hope you will, if appropriate for you, get help from someone who is a qualified counsellor. They won't be able to sort out the emotions for you, they may be able to help you to feel a sense of peace about the past.
Figrus I have tried, but no, they still all seem to want to blame me for being a 'bad kid' no matter what success i have made of my life, i have said to both my 'mum and dad' i don't care if you hate me, could you at least send birthday or xmas cards to my sons, your grandsons, but neither will, my brother has two girls, separate mums, who i know my mum is close too, i just feel so guilty i cant give my children grandparents, and I have tried - x
Italian the response youve given is so great - and no, this is the first time ive talked about anything, and to be honest i love the fact its anonymous, as in my life my past is unknown. I'm very sucessful in my career, and before venturing onto this site i didnt realise how much my past effected me -
Dont really know if I could open up to anyone 'face to face' so to speak -
taffleee the benefit of professinal counselling is that in a sense it is quite annoymous. Yes, of course you see the person you are speaking to but you don't know them personally and if you go somewhere not immediately near your house or job you will most likely not see them often. I am a Christian and see what is called a Spiritual Director, which is a bit of a silly title because they don't direct you as such. Mine lives about 25 minutes away by car and I have only ever run into her about once (and we do have a mutual friend as well, who introduced us). I had counceling at my GP surgery, the fertiity clinic and the hospital (over the years) and never once ran into a counseller outside a session. Not sure if that helps. they do, of course, get to know you but it is very professional and not the same as telling a friend your worries or concerns.
PS Personally I would not feel bad you can't give your kids grandparents, espcially as they are not (by the sound of it) at all nice to be around! My mum has dementia and no real relationship with our dd now, sadly, but I am not sure kids miss that sort of thing. My dd knows kinder older people who we know (through church) and who she can talk to about stuff she is doing at Sunday school etc if she wants to and who are always happy to see scooting about on her scooter (nearly knocking people over!!)
Italian you have faith then?? I'm a total agnostic, always have been, but have posted on an site here regarding faith?
Do you find being a member of a church some comfort, i'm interested??
taffleee my faith is very central to my life and does bring comfort. As I get older I have found my faith is being expressed more in practical ways and yet is also about the inside life, all that thinking and feeling we do as people. I certainly get comfort from God but I also get it from people too, and have found some wonderful supportive people around me, both in the real world and on line.
I hope you find peace amid all these thoughts as you write on here and express things. I can certainly say that these boards have been very supportitve (I used to post on fertility) and have posted on relgion and feminism as well.
Must go to bed now, thinking of you and hoping that these feelings will get more resolved. Tears are usually very good (I used to cry a lot when I was younger!)
taffleee, do you actually want anyone to reply?
Because jumping on everyone and taking offence to everything is a very strange way to talk to people [baffled]
Maryz when did i do that in this thread???? I'm 'baffled'??
I think I have responded and appreciated everyone's response??? I have not taken offence to anything, as the is nothing to take any offence in?? People have actually very kind and responsive to a thread I posted, and I appreciate every single comment???
How are you feeling taffleee, hope all is well.
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