oh shit, hold my hand

(66 Posts)
Lilka Sat 02-Feb-13 16:40:28

Took DD2 and DS out shopping this morning which was going well

We went into a department store to search for nice shoes and DS was trying some on when DD2 freezes, then shrieks and runs off and I turn round to see her launching herself at her mum who is in the same shop

Mum very shocked to see us
Me very shocked and speechless
DS asked what was going on, saw his firstmother and got up and ran off in the other direction

I didn't know what to do, run after DS or go to DD2
I chose DS and he was upset and didn't want to see her, so I said he didn't have to and it was ok, and left him with a shop assistant to go back. I feel like a shit mum for not staying with him but I was on my own and didn't know what I needed to do

So I went back and said hello. DD overwhelming her mother with non stop chatter and hugging and kissing sad I gulped and said hi and her mum was at least not unhappy to see me and asked how I was and where was DS gone? Other shoppers are looking at us like we're lunatics and dodging us.

I haven't even got the energy to go into all the tale, just that DD and her mum spent ages with each other, while I had to call my friend to come and look after DS and take him home while I stayed with DD

And now DS is upset and feeling a bit abandonned because I chose to supervise DD instead of take him home and leave her, DD is overwhelmed and cycling through 50 emotions but positively will not stop going on about how wonderful, lovely and fantastic her mum is. Me, I don't know what the actual fuck to do sad

This was not supposed to happen like this and I feel out of control and really upset and exhusted sad fucking hell

stargirl1701 Sat 02-Feb-13 16:42:30

No advice but hand holding.

Sorry this happened. I have no insight but will hold your hand until someone more knowledgeable comes along. thanks

Moomoomie Sat 02-Feb-13 16:50:18

What an awful situation to be in. For what it is worth I think you did the right thing by staying with dd. hopefully ds will understand once he has settled down.
Did you know birth mum lived locally? The birth mother of our girls actually moved to the town we live in, which caused much consternation for me.
Have a cup of tea or glass of wine.

Lilka I am sorry you had this shock. No words of advice. I think you did the right thing. I am sure DS will calm down. I just hope it will all calm down. Really nothing to say to help but happy to listen if you want to talk.

BCBG Sat 02-Feb-13 17:06:57

No advice as no experience, but do they have a social worker you could chat to for advice or is that sort of thing a big no-no (sorry if I am putting my foot in it). DS will need a lot of support - sounds like he is old enough to be processing a lot of stuff - how old is he? You poor thing, you must be very shocked. Hope you have some good RL support but as everyone says we are here if you need us.

Lilka Sat 02-Feb-13 18:47:34

Thanks all

I feel powerless

It's been fine till now with letters, photos and videos, and a supervised
visit but like this sad

I feel like I'm going to lose her to her mum. I don't know how in DD's mind I can compete with other mum. I don't want to compete. I don't want to feel like this. Jealous and put out. She never goes on about how much she loves me to other people

Will phone our PASW for advice but can't much unless DD agrees to more organised meetings in neutral places or mum encourages her to do that

I want to drown my sorrows but kids are still up

QOD Sat 02-Feb-13 18:54:03

Sorry Lilka, I don't know the story, have they been with you long? Sounds horriblesad
I went thru a stage, when we were trying for a 2nd baby with our surrogate, of getting quite upset by DD's relationship with her birthmother getting more relaxed. Not so bad for me though as I have had dd literally since birth

Lilka Sat 02-Feb-13 19:03:07

DD has been with me since she was just turned 8 and she's 16 now. DS joined us when he was 23 months and he's nearly 8

QOD Sat 02-Feb-13 19:29:35

Oh wow harsh after 8 years sad
How is your relationship generally? I always worried my dd would throw it in my face as a teen, she never has and I'm positive never will, but OMG she's a stinker of a teen grin

QOD Sat 02-Feb-13 19:31:04

I suppose though its grown up talk time? There were obviously very good reasons why she wasn't living with her birth mother, is it time to talk about that in more detail?
Gosh,I hope someone comes along with real advice!

lisad123everybodydancenow Sat 02-Feb-13 19:37:09

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Lilka I am sure you do feel very sad and frustrated etc and worried but please stay calm, this could have happened at any stage and in some way with you being there I think you at least were with her, even though it was very hard for you.

Kewcumber Sat 02-Feb-13 20:35:18

No good advice for you Lilka. I wish I had some that would be helpful. I would feel jealous and threatened in your position. See what the pasw has to say.

Kewcumber Sat 02-Feb-13 20:37:19

Lisad - from memory I don't think it was as simple as 8 yrs with birth mother followed by 8 yrs with lilka

I don't know what to say except that's just shit. I can't imagine how you must be feeling. I hope they're all in bed and that you're having a big glass of wine right now. wine

lisad123everybodydancenow Sat 02-Feb-13 21:19:00

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Lilka Sat 02-Feb-13 21:20:28

She lived with her mum for 4 years and has some very clear memories from that period of her life, then spent well over 3 years in FC before she came to me

She has learning disabilities, probable FAE and functions pretty much as a 10 year old when it comes to social situations and her interests. She has very few friends her own age and those she does have SN's as well. She can't relate well to neurotypical 16 year olds

We have talked a great deal about her past although she has struggled to process things and has always idolised her mum. I have never ever put down her mum when talking to her and so I would never tell her that her mum is bad (and I don't believe that she is a horrid person either) I just try to relate the facts

I was worried DD would go off with her mum if I left and I didnt want DD to invite herself to her mums house or something like that

I don't want DD to only have a relationship with me - I want her to have a place in her life for both of us and I want her to see me as a mum. I'm frightened that shell decide I'm not her mum any more sad

VerityPushpram Sat 02-Feb-13 21:31:24

I can't imagine how hard this must be for you. But your daughter has blossomed since she's been with you, so she must have a strong bond to you.

Lilka Sat 02-Feb-13 21:36:22

Oh and also DD has PTSD and when triggered she can have awful meltdown episodes and since quite a few things from her past are triggers I was worried that something might go wrong and her mum would have no clue what to do

DS is ok but a bit fragile I spent lots of time with him this evening and we talked. He is adamant that he does not want to see her and is worried she might show up again. When mum asked where he was for the second time, I'm afraid I lied and said he had to be somewhere else because I couldn't find a nice way to say 'he ran away from you and doesn't want to see you''

Lilka I think from all you have said that DD's feelings about her birth mum are there and already formed and so this meeting has just brought it out a bit. So maybe this would be inevitable that there would be some 'frictions' like this in the future, maybe seeing her out shopping has kind of brought it forward and you will have to face it a bit sooner than you had hoped.

My understanding is very limited so I can't really help you with any wise words but I do feel your daughter will navigate these feelings and you, who knows her so well, who has been with her and stood by her and raised her for the majority of her life, will be there to help her.

Whatever she does or does not feel in any given moment, you have raised her to be the girl she is and whatever temporary feelings these meetings (planned or unplanned as in this one) raise, I think in the long term you have been and will be her rock.

Try not to allow your fears to overwhelm you, stay calm, don't 'fortune tell' too far into the future.

Get some good advice from people who know the best way to handle this.

Normally I would say trust your instincts but in this case you are sad and scared and so maybe that is not wisest!

I guess there are two issues, you and how you feel and her and how she feels. (I am assuming for the moment your ds is feeling ok now and has gotten over the meeting - if not then I guess there are three angles).

I guess I would say look after yourself, (which maybe you are doing by talking to us a bit). I think you did totally the right thing by watching out for your DD as she was the most vulnerable one is the scenario. I guess I am trying to say that no matter how she feels about you or her birth mum at any given time you know how YOU feel about her, how special she is to you and you can trust that feeling and try and work calmly through it.

My best two bits of advice would be - Stay strong - and - Ignore me if I am rambling.

Sorry Lilka cross-posted with you. It is great that DS is fine now or getting fine. I did not mean to imply your dd's feelings for her birth mum were temporary, I meant in the heat of a meeting, especially an unplanned one, it is all excitment etc and maybe in the long run real life is just not like that. You are totally wise to be concerned about meetings sparking off any of Dd's concerns or issues, which her birth mum may not be at all aware about and that is where the advice from the PASW (not sure what that is but assuming some sort of social worker) will come in useful. I expect there have been other families in this situation so there will be advice on hand of how to handle it.

Maiyakat Sun 03-Feb-13 11:28:11

How unbelievably difficult for you all - must be exhausting managing DD and DS's emotions as well as your own. Really hope that the PASW gives good advice and support tomorrow.

Lilka Sun 03-Feb-13 15:32:24

Oh yay

Facebook chat


KristinaM Sun 03-Feb-13 20:07:46

Oh no! Dd is chatting to her first mum on FB? Tell me you are DDs FB " friend" ?

QOD Sun 03-Feb-13 21:16:18

God, Facebook is so shite for adopted kids, you know what I mean, all that easy contact sad

Lilka Sun 03-Feb-13 22:03:54

Yes they are chatting on FB. DD sent her mum a friends request and she accepted

Her account is set up with my email and I know her password and I check up on what she's been doing that way. But since the computer is in the sitting room I saw her doing it anyway. I have my own laptop as well but she can't get onto it

DS is not happy with DD

I have told DD that DS is not going to be involved in this and that's final and he doesn't want to hear about it. Although I didn't say it quite as bluntly as that. I have also been trying to tell her that I do support her wanting to talk to her mum but maybe we could organise more meetings in advance in the future with some support...I don't know if she's even listening right now though

It seems doubly crazy because she hasn't tried to 'friend' her mum before this. I mean, she would probably have found her since she found her earlier today but she hasn't put much efffort in. I'm sure her mum had already found her but mum has always been respectful and not tried to make the first move. I guess her being supportive of the adoption might actually make a difference. It would be really hard if she was in denial land and telling DD she had been stolen yada yada so i guess I should be thankful for that

But I'm still stuck in jealousy land sad Which is kind of odd because they have met a few years ago and write to each other in letterbox but this feels different? Maybe because DD is older and suddenly I feel like she really could up and leave me sad

QOD Sun 03-Feb-13 22:35:55

I'm not surprised, I don't suppose you can open a conversation up yourself with the woman? And just explain how vulnerable your dd is? Would she care though? Ack. Tough one.

Devora Sun 03-Feb-13 22:59:54

Oh Lilka, I'm so sorry. I completely understand how you must be feeling sad. My dd is only 3, but I am already gripped by a secret fear of what will happen in her teens when she may reach out to her birth parents, or her siblings (who are very, very troubled young people). Jealousy yes, but also real fear about my ability to protect her.

Facebook is a nightmare. But thank goodness you have access to it.

Keep calm. This will probably get played out over the longer term, and you have everything to gain by being the one who stays calm and consistent throughout.

Sadly, no advice, just thinking of you.

goshua Sun 03-Feb-13 23:35:35

Hi Lilka, Been in situation ourselfs,also have children with FAS FAE so do understand your situation, suggest seek professional help perhaps After Adoption. Meenwhile be her best friend as well as daughter, see if she can engage in other outside interest social groups etc. also you need too speek too the social and contact worker's regards too Safe Guarding Issues, with the ongoing health problems , yes she is vunrable and impressionable , there are new law's extending beyond the age of 16 and Facebook. And you do need too know Births mum's history and presant situation.
Good luck sure things will work out.

KristinaM Mon 04-Feb-13 18:32:09

Lilka, I m so sorry , this is such a hard situation for you. Totally normal for you to be jealous /worried sick.you are always so respectful of the kids first mother, no one coudl have done more in thsi regard.

Ad I'm guessing its hard for DD to see that it's not all about her, or to ask her to consider her brothers feelings. Few 16yo are able to do this, let alone a girl with her past /issues. Have you got soem RL support for YOU?

Is DD able to respect her brothers confidentiality and not tell FM anything abiut him?

You didn't mention DD1 so I'm assuming she has a different FM?

Lilka Mon 04-Feb-13 20:02:15

Yes Kristina, DD1 isn't biologically related to DD2 and DS

I'm not sure that DD2 will respect his confidentiality, she's too impulsive and doesn't think things through, so if she wants to share something she'll just do it

Thanks everyone

Phoned PASW today and we talked a lot. DD2 is still excited and wants to meet again, but her mum isn't on FB tonight so she hasn't been able to message her. Mum hasn't given DD her mobile number. PASW said someone will contact mum and talk to her about this. I said I'd also like to speak with her if we were to go ahead with more planned meetings etc

Thinking of you Lilka. I am sure you are handling it well. Try and be kind to yourself. A difficult time but I am sure you can cope and DD will be able to think more clearly once the excitement wears off. You are a great mum.

gallivantsaregood Thu 07-Feb-13 12:22:06

What a difficult situation. Afraid I can't add anything to what has already been said. I do think you handled the initial situation well. I am glad you have spoken to PASW and she is stepping up to help. Xx

Lilka Thu 07-Feb-13 20:11:08

Well we are all surviving, I am muddling along and making it up as I go (that's been my strategy for the last 16 years and it hasn't completely failed me yet!)

DS is still anxious, I am being reassuring and obviously it's still early days, I hope he will feel more secure as the months go by. He has his 8th birthday coming up in the next few weeks and I hope the excitement will be distracting for him (my little man is growing up some <sniff>!)

DD2 is still feeling the buzz of gushy feelings and excitement etc. She is checking up on mum's facebook A LOT and is disappointed when mum doesn't appear online to chat. Mum is more reserved than DD, I guess she is feeling tougher emotions right now than DD is. She hasn't showed up to chat every day and she's always the one who ends their conversations (kindly). However she always only ever says loving things to DD when they 'speak'

I guess no one has got round to seeing mum yet, I've a mind to try contacting her myself but I'll leave that for now and wait a while

And me, I'm keeping fully calming around DD and DS and taking long walks in the day which is very helpful. Nothing like mindless excercise and a bit of nature to help to wind down a bit

DD1 has also beeen helpful in her way. She doesn't really understand DD2's desire to do this. DD1 does have contact with her siblings which is great and she needs that, but has no desire whatsoever to ever speak to her bios again, as her past is absolutely awful. Anyway, she always makes me feel better by just talking and validating my emotions a bit "Well you've got every right to feel jealous, I would", "I'm here if you need anything", "You've been there for DD for years, so don't you ever feel like you're not her mum, cause you're more her mum than x will ever be etc etc". She's so lovely smile (she's doing well btw, pregnancy all normal, bit of morning sickness but otherwise fine)

KristinaM Thu 07-Feb-13 20:21:22

Glad you are coping. DD1 sounds wonderful, bless her. Glad she is keeping well. Sorry have to dash to collect child. Mum taxi company

Lilka, you sound like such a strong woman. You're admirable in how you're coping with this.

You must be so proud of your dd1 and it's great to hear her pregnancy is going well. She sounds like a very empathetic person.

Stay strong.

Lilka Sat 23-Feb-13 18:19:17

Hello again,

Saga continues. I am really worn down by it all

I was thinking today (when I asked DD what she wants for her birthday whic his less than a month away) that last year for her birthday (well after it because SS were late) I was picking a card from mum off the doormat and showing it to DD after school

And in Autumn I wrote my last letter with photos to mum

It's all so bloody redundant now

DS refusing to have anything to do with it. Does not want her to know anything about him. She sends a birthday card for him every year, which is in a memory box. Up till now he has been ok with letterbox, but I guess actually seeing her and her becoming a real person to him has changed things. I decided heavily to send his card back and tell SS to put it on file. He turned 8 a couple of weeks ago

Seeing as this started a few days before his birthday it overshadowed it slightly sad sad

DD still doing facebook contact with mum. Not much has changed in the last couple of weeks. DD is still in her obsessed with mum phase (well I hope it's a phase and things will settle). I keep feeling jealous and redudant, but I'm trying (emhpasis on trying) to focus on what I am doing for DD. She's still here, I'm still her mum, and hope this is how things will stay <fingers crossed but trembling a bit>

Devora Sat 23-Feb-13 19:22:59

Lilia, I really feel for you. Any talk of them meeting up?

KristinaM Sat 23-Feb-13 19:23:32

I'm sorry, this is so painful for you.i wish I had soem good advice . < sends unmumsnetty hug>

Friends DD did this. DD was 15 and rebellious, birth mum about 30 and slightly more immature than the girl. Invited friends DD to go out clubbing with her, stay at her bedsit etc . Parenst put their foot down . Dd went anyway. BM was cool and fun and never nagged about school /homework/not going to clubs at 15. Dd stopped attending school and got excluded.

After a few montsh BM got a bit bored, started asking Girl for money. Suspect Bm had addiction issues. Novelty wore off on both sides.

it turned out ok in the end.i don't know all the details but DD now happily married ( to normal stable employed man!!!! ) with kids . Unsure if she has any contcat with her BM as her parenst never mention it and obv I don't ask. But it was a few hard time for them

I don't know what to say except hang on in there. Hope you have RL support. So much harder when you are on your own.

I think you are doing a good job.

Try and stay strong. Be very kind to yourself.

You tried so hard and did the right thing for so long, that really will count in the long run, I am sure this is a phase.

Thinking of you and your lovely DD. So sorry you are jealous but it is totally normal for you to feel that way. Thinking of your DS too, although he is unhappy, I am sure he will get through it all.

Again, no advice from me but I just wanted to lend to the support you're getting here. It's a really tough time for you, I hope you have RL friends close enough to unload on. I know it's hard to have friends who truly can understand what you're going through and who you're able to divulge the personal stuff to. Is your elder dd close to dd2? Could she talk to her? Is there any support from SS in this situation?

Lilka Mon 25-Feb-13 14:21:08

PASW/SS have got themsevles involved now, I know they have contacted mum and talked to her.

DD wants to meet mum, so I am trying to push the idea of a nice neutral venue somewhere. Do something she enjoys, go out to eat lunch together? Go to her favourite pottery painting place? I don't know, anything that doesn't involve her going to mum's house. I think contact centre wouldn't work well, DD had real problem in FC with them, I think it might bring it all back?

I am telling her I support her, and that I could be there as well to support her if she wants.

PASW wants (and has talked to mum) about any meetings being supervised at first and not taking place at her house etc, and also about letters being a better idea than FaceBook, I hope mum is receptive to this, although she does still come on FB to talk to DD

I do have a few close friends/family to confide in thankfully but yes this is one of the very hard bits of being single

Domjolly Mon 25-Feb-13 15:07:12

Can i just say lady one thing i picked up on you all keep saying there mum

Ladies YOUR THERE MOTHERS the biological parents had there chance and fluffed there lines you are there MOTHERS and dont you forget of doubt it

MrsBW Mon 25-Feb-13 16:46:42

Domjolly - it's really not like that at all, is it?

Lilka pottery place or lunch sounds good.

Good idea and well done for keeping your head and thinking straight. You are are wise and you will get through this.

Hang on, I really hope it will get easier.

Can you gently remind her of the fun times you have had together? 'Woo' her a bit with memories in a really gentle way?

You are right to support her, she needs you now more than ever. The simplest things can mean a lot.

MrsBW I don't know what it's like as am not an adoptive parent yet. A birth parent doesn't cease to exist when a child is adopted so how can a child relate to that person. It's a tough question and I can see Lilka is trying so hard to support her DD, which is such a great thing in itself.

MrsBW Mon 25-Feb-13 21:57:13

Italangreyhound I was referring to the inference that all birth parents 'fluff their lines' and therefore don't deserve to be considered 'mothers' I think that's an unfair generalisation.... And a potentially harmful view in the long run.

Lilka I have thought of you a lot since first reading this. I am not a parent so won't proffer any advice but I think you're handling it beautifully.

Lilka Mon 25-Feb-13 22:10:05

Domjolly - Yes, I am DD's mother/mum. That's certainly how I see myself. But I don't see myself as her only mother/mum. Her other mother is also her mum. That's always how it's been, since she moved in. DD calls her mum/my or mummy X, and has done since she learned to talk.

I had a relaxing-ish afternoon and this evening I sat and read a book I love again. It's a memoir by a (truly inspirational) young woman, Ashley Rhodes-Courter, who was removed from her mother aged 3, then spent over 8 years cycling through about 14 different foster homes and children's homes in Florida before being adopted aged 11. It's an amazing book, and I found myself rereading all the passages and chapters about her birth mother and her adoption. I had a little cry, there's a poignant (to me) scene she describes when she and her adoptive mother talk about meeting up with her birth mother. She asks her adoptive mum whether she (mum) would feel awkward, and her mum sighs and says that she knows Ashley's birth mother will always be the love of her life. It really resonated a bit about DD2. She's like Ashley in many ways. Loves her mum very much, always believed she would go home to mum again when in foster care, and was reluctant to love any other woman as mum in case that's betraying first mum.

Her mum is the one who was there in her first crucial years, and the one she loved first and the one she clung to in foster care and the one she can't let go of. I do worry that she is the love of DD's life, and therefore she might abandon her home here (although Ashley didn't and eventually came to attach to her parents and see her birth mother as a person with bad points as well as good).

All I want (well I want more but primarily this) is for her to continue and always to see me and love me as her mum, as well as her other mum.

I think birth family relationships are something to consider and think through carefully if you wish to adopt an older child who spent a considerable amount of time with first parent's.

MrsBW Mon 25-Feb-13 22:27:01

Lilka you put it far more eloquently than me.

I'm going to look for a copy of that book.

Thank you - take care and I hope the next few days go as you would wish them to be.

Lilka that's beauiful, I think I need to read that book.

Thinking of you.

MrsBW I'm sorry I misunderstood your question, it wasn't really my place to answer it, and i can't really answer it anyway and of course Lilka can!

However, I am a mum - have not adopted yet - and personally, i woudln't say that birth parent fluffed their lines but I guess it must be so hard to know how to think of them and the complicated relationship people have with people in their lives, perhaps people who have hurt them etc. It is so good to have mumsnet to hear all this information.

Lilka Tue 26-Feb-13 02:10:30

It is an amazing book IMHO, and a must read for those who would like to adopt children aged 8+

It's rare to get a memoir from the adoptee themself, much less one who experienced neglect, abandonnement, the foster care sytem and adoption. She writes very well and goes through her whole story beginning to end. It's really good for understanding the possible emotions an older child might experience in adoption. She had been through so many foster homes some of whom told they loved her before she was moved, and one foster mother who abused her, her birth mother loved her but couldn't get her back and would miss visits for years at a stretch, she saw children get adopted but then disrupt and come back to the home, her brother's adoption disrupts...so of course in the back of her mind, she felt adoption was as good a deal as she would get, but not something that was likely to be permanent....she describes feeling like she would be sent back, pushing boundaries, pushing her adoptive mother, the process of settling in and her parents attaching to her. But love took years on her end which she describes, as well as contact with her birth family and legally challenging her abusive former foster mother. But eventually she realised she had really found a permanent home, not a placement, and a mum and dad smile

Now she's a graduate, a foster mother, completed college, won a whole host of awards, worked as GAL, and advocates for adoption of older children. She's an amazing woman smile Would have been nice to have a book like that before i adopted, although when i adopted DD1, Ashley was still living in a children's home. I think they must be very close in age

Lilka Tue 26-Feb-13 02:11:09

It's called 'Three Little Words'

Lilka Sun 17-Mar-13 14:34:45

They've gone to text messaging and phone calls this week. I was kind of wondering when that was going to happen.

At least we had a good day yesterday, DD even told me she loves me, and we danced round the living room to some cheerful old songs (Dancing on the Ceiling anyone?) smile

DD wants to go see a certain film at the cinema and I was planning to go next Friday..go out to eat as well, make a nice evening of it (hopefully). Only DD told mum how much she wants to see this film, and mum immediately invited her to come out and see it with her sad angry Before next Friday

So my nice planned family evening out is not going to happen, she's going to do it with other mother instead. I want to shout 'Why did you invite her?? You didn't ask me first whether I had plans. You obviously haven't paid any heed whatsoever to the chat with SS about meeting DD. In one ear, out the other. Can you have even a little bit of consideration?? Stop ruining the nice things I could have". angry sad

And yes, could be worse, I know I know. The cinema is hardly a nightclub or pub so it should be safe. But I won't be there. What if something happens, what if mother invites her to something else or her home afterwards??

Would it be a crazy idea for you to meet the BM (maybe with the social worker?) and talk to her face to face about the impact that recent developments are having on your family and on your relationship with dd? You said she was in favour of the adoption so presumably on some level she understands that she was not going to be the best parent to her children. If she could be made to understand that while in the short term, she and dd are having a little honeymoon reunion period but ultimately where will this end for dd? What does she think is going to happen in the future?

This is awful for you and if I were you I would be lying on the floor howling and kicking my legs. And while dd might be very excited to be reunited with BM, this can only end in tears, her tears.

QOD Sun 17-Mar-13 15:33:53

Happy has a good idea!
I'm so sorry it's all still going on, I'd hoped bm would have got a bit fed up

Stay strong lilka.

Would it be appropraite to see if you can go to film with them too, or is that too painful or too risky in case she says no?

Can you still have your nice night out with a different film, or just with a meal?

I know nothing about all this, I have no idea how deep the pain runs, but please try and be calm. Enjoy the fun bits with DD. You also have your lovely DD1 and DS and your scrumptious DGD and your DGCIV (dear grand child in vitro) so you have a lot of people who love you and you can love. I have no idea about DD2's birth mum's life, but she missed out on the joy (and sorrows) of bringing up DD. So this time may be a little bit nice for her and for you DD2. I know you are worried things will go wrong, and you are right to worry and be concerned. I think if you can maintain some relationship/contact with the birth mum to help DD through this time then that would be good for DD2, and will probably end up being helpful to you and to the birth mum.

It is truly horrible situation for you but try and think of the two sides of this as not impacting on each other so directly, by that I mean, if she loves birth mum it doesn't mean she loves you less, if things go wrong with birth mum it won't necessarily make life easier for you or worse for you.So try and maintain that joy with DD and not worry too much about how much she loves birth mum etc. I know. I know, easier said than done. But if she knows how much it hurts you I am not sure she would be capable of changing how she feels or acts and might simply be secretive about it.

Look after yourself. Remember the good times and you know there will be more to come. Trust your wise instincts and remember what a truly good job you have done in bringing her up.

Moomoomie Sun 17-Mar-13 18:52:26

Lilka. You have been so strong through out all of this, I'm really not sure I would have been.
Nothing more I can add, apart from we are all thinking of you, and are here for you.

Lilka Sun 17-Mar-13 20:40:52

Oh believe me I sound stronger online than I do in real life. I do have mini tantrums and cry (just not in front of the kids)

I am still planning to go out with them to eat but I'm really not sure what to do about the cinema....I checked the listing again but I don't see any other films than Oz rated PG/U (for DS) and showing on Friday night sad

Maybe she'll agree to see it twice but if I tell her now, it'll look like i just came up with it to sabotage mum's plans because I'm jealous angry

I am sure she would believe you if you said that you had planned to take her. Why not say to her that if she enjoys it a lot and thinks DS would like it you will take them both on Friday too?

I know you said your DD is quite young for her age would she like Wreak it Ralph or the Croodes?

I thought about taking my DD to see OZ but I thought it might be a bit scary! Maybe for me. If it doesn't work out that you see that or anther movie, try not to let it spoil a nice meal out. Could you use the money you save on not going to the cinema to go to a lovely restaurant or simply to have a big special meal?? I don't mean this in any way to try and buy her love or one up on birth mum's evening. Maybe you could just be honest and say at some time. i was plannng to take you to see that too so if you love it we will see it again and if not then we can just have a really special meal out. It's a win win, if she loves it enough to see it twice you get to go with her and if not then maybe it's not such a dab film anyway.

Chin up my dear you are a super mum.

(PS we saw Wreck it ralph and it is funny and quite good and off to see the Croodes on Saturday).

fab film not dab film!

LadyHarrietdeSpook Mon 18-Mar-13 12:51:38

I should say I am an adopted child myself (as a baby though.)

I feel awful for you.

PASW/SS have got themsevles involved now, I know they have contacted mum and talked to her.

Is this still ongoing? What are their views on this situation?

My visceral reaction is that I wish this woman could be helped to back off, at least until your DD is 18. I appreciate you don't want to make her 'more interesting' to your DD and it's hard to 'police' FB and texting. But if her personal situation is still problematic in the way I'm guessing it was when your DD came to you I would think there would be a reason for SS to intervene.

Furthermore - is right that the integrity of the adoption is preserved which includes, in my view, respecting basic boundaries which are being overstepped here.

The fact that the BM is organising things like movie nights with your DD or at least willing to go along with her suggestions says to me her judgement isn't great - she's not thinking about the implications of her behaviour. I would also think that this is a reason for SS to re-engage.

Your DD has to think about her longterm relationship with this woman - she may well be around for a while although it wouldn't surprise me if a scenario like the one Kristina M plays out. But - what then for your daughter.

At the very least your DD needs to be old enough and mature enough to cope with whatever the BM throws at her in terms of her behaviour. I agree it's probably not likely to be the case that she is ready now.

Lilka Tue 19-Mar-13 23:07:17

Italian - Thanks so much for suggesting The Croods smile - I hadn't heard about it till you mentionned it and it's about right for us, DD2 likes kids animations a lot, she still loves Barbie videos for instance and DS is excited to see it. I found it at the next nearest cinema to book so we are going Friday and we will eat out as well

I asked them today and DD was very happy, so phew, I thought she might think I was trying to one-up other mother.

More importantly right this second, she and OM are spposed to be going out TOMORROW early evening. I am so nervy and feeling very protective of DD (and annoyed/upset as well). I am taking her there and bringing her back. I'm planning to drive there before i expect the film to end so I can be there when they come out, maybe it's over the top but I'm worried that they will go off together afterwards confused

Harriet - SS are not happy with the situation but after having talked to mum, there isn't really a great deal they can do with her personally. I am still in contact with PASW, and she wonders whether another meeting with mum and talking with DD will result in getting together a better plan for contact, and arranged visits if wanted. So rather than just a general talk about contact, a few focussed ones with an actual aim to get a plan together. It depends how receptive mum and DD are to the idea. And also they are both impulsive so even with arranging things they could still suddenly decide to deviate from plans on the spur of the moment

LadyHarrietdeSpook Wed 20-Mar-13 09:12:50

Lilka, I can't stop thinking about your posts and your situation.

What I am curious about is what sort of counselling and support SS is providing for you, in addition to the practical plan for contact they are proposing, which I think under the circumstances sounds reasonable. I agree that trying to shut down contact completely isn't going to work - given your DDs age at this point and the fact we live in the age of FB/texting.

I don't think the impulsiveness you describe should be indulged though - there should be consequences if the BM doesn't agree to adhere to what is agreed, if you see what I mean. She needs to show that her judgment is not totally in question if she wants people facilitating contact with her birth daughter in this way.

But going back to my earlier point, it's great that you had the wherewithal to find that book which as you say is useful for people who adopt a child over 8. But I don't think that you should be on your own with this.

I'm thinking it may be helpful for you to speak directly to people who have been through this themselves. Is this possible? Can they suggest anyone?

Other than that - I do agree with what an earlier poster said, please take care of yourself and focus on the really positive relationships you have with your other children.

Lilka I am so pleased the Croods sounds good, am off to see it with my DD on Saturday (with her friend) will think of you. Hope it goes really well.

TOTALLY agree that going early to pick up and ensure no impulse stuff goes on is a good idea.

I am sure you will be a sunny positive force tonight and be interested in the film and all smiles, even if you feel sad. Remember the bigger picture, you are strong, she loves you, you love her etc.

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