Due to their parents having mental health and substance abuse issues.

This is the third time. On both occasions previously we have been allowed visits etc as we are quite close to them.

What will happen now?

Is there anything I can do to ensure these visits happen quickly (previously there has been a bit of a lapse before they begun, is there a reason for this? Obv we'd like to be able to help them settle)

Apparently their mum is going to appeal (altho I personally believe they might be better off where they are). Can the children be adopted if mum loses such an appeal?

Then would we not be able to see them?

When does adoption come into the equation?

Sorry I'm sure this all seems very obvious to someone out there but these are the questions that kept me up all night.

Unfortunately I'm not in a position to have the children, nor are my parents. It probably wouldn't work anyway as mum is within quite a close vicinity.

TIA.

So sorry to hear this. Don't have any answers but couldn't see your post without sympathising.

Without knowing anything about the process at all, I'd say get in touch with SS asap and make sure they know you are keen to stay in touch.

Have you heard of have Family Group Conferences.

FGC's invite all members of family and all people who have been dealing with the family.

We all sit down and thrash out where would be the best place for children to stay, usually this is with a member of the family, rather than in care.

Care would be the last option, after looking into the dc staying with the family. I am sure if you spoke to SS you could arrange some visitations?

It's very sad, I am sorry your family are going through this.

The social worker said yesterday when I handed her over that they would be in touch.

I understand that it may take a couple of days, so think I'll phone on Friday. The social workers were nothing but lovely and worked really closely with my parents the last time.

Currently doing a degree at mo and looking into my Post Grad for next year. The wonderful job which they are doing is definately making me sway towards applying for this (sorry slight tangent).

It really is one of the most awful things I've ever had to do, no matter how safe and well cared for I know they'll be.

You would not necessarily need to lose contact in the event of an adoption (which I would guess is some way down the line) if social services are aware that you currently have regular contact - with adoptive parent consent you can continue contact in some form.

Children can be freed for adoption through the courts, but it is a long process and the parents will have a lot of opportunities to be represented and the judge/s will have to be convinced it's the right thing.
How old are the kids? Adoption might not be the care plan if they are a bit older. If this is the 3rd time however, the LA are unlikely to try to rehabilitate them home again so they will be looking for permanence (adoption) ideally or full care orders, which means the LA or adoptive parents would have the decision about contact with family members - but they will try to promote it as much as possible if you guys are safe people (which I'm sure you are!)
It will be a while before it goes to court. Lots of reports to be written. I wish your family the best.

Kat2907 - "How old are the kids?" 19 months and 7yo.

"LA or adoptive parents would have the decision about contact with family members" The social workers have been extremely responsive and seem to be really co operative when we phone (obv not the mothers exp but through personal exp I can only imagine how she goes on with them). Is there anything I should do? Just keep making it clear that we would like contact?

Kewcumber - "with adoptive parent consent you can continue contact in some form." Is this something which many adoptive parents would go for? If the mum doesn't want contact would that mean we couldn't have it? It's a terrible thing to say but she is the sort who'd cut her own nose off just to spite the rest of her face.

Quick update, spoke to SS today about me retrieving some of the childrens belongings to go to them and they were lovely, that's sorted out for tomorrow and the children are said to have settled well last night. So that's something.

Thank you for your comments. I think I'll keep posting here, it's so much easier than speaking to mum or dad, you lot aren't quite so emotional!

Why can't you or rest of family care for them??

Unfortunately I'm not in a position to have the children, nor are my parents. It probably wouldn't work anyway as mum is within quite a close vicinity.

What has your mum being close got to do with not doing it?
Surely even more of a reason to help?

well I certianly know of cases where grandparents have a degree of contact even if birth parens don't so its possible. Ultimately it will depend on the adoptive parents because even if SS encourage it once the children are adopted you will need them to be positive about visits. As a minimum I would expect you to be able to get letter box contact especially if 7 yr old says they want it.

moondog - SS often like to have childrne adotped/cared for out of reach of birth parents. Very hard for a child to bump into a birth parent who isn't taking care of them, particularly if BP is likely to kick-off.

i'm guessing the parents would find it much easier to turn up and cause distress if they are close to the grandparent's house? even if they have 'agreed' for the children to be temporarily taken into care, foster parents find it much easier to prevent unauthorised access than relatives do?

their mum not OP's mum is quite close.

Oh what do I know??
Just seems madness for a family to allow their flesh and blood to slip away like this (and I know your situation is different Kew).

Being in care fucks kids up big time.

...as does being raised by parents who are active drug addicts. If anything will motivate them to sort their lives out it will be the thought that they will lose their children. There are some wonderful foster carers out there, it doesn't HAVE to be a one way ticket to hell for the children.
If the parents can now be helped to sort themselves out, the children may be returned to them. If not, as Kew says, they may need to be adopted out of the birth family and contact managed by social services.

I'm sorry moondog but their birth mother, my auntie (who has tonight attempted an overdose) would not allow us the peace required to go about supporting and caring for the children as they grow up.

With the knowledge I have of their mother and the behaviour I have witnessed from her over my 21 years I'm certain (without any trace of doubt) that the children would be all the more "fucked up" witnessing what would no doubt be daily rants of wanting her children back / my parents or I not giving them back therefore seemingly being the ones who wanted to keep them apart. No doubt we'd be all the bad ones under the sun.

Given time away from the situation, in an environment where their carer does not have to worry about the bp and whether or not their mum will be round to noise everything up, is able to devote their time to supporting the children in such a horrendous and stressful time (my parents could not do this as they run their own business, I'm at uni full time) whilst still having contact with us, knowing we want to see them and being able to spend whatever time we do get with them in a positive way, is really the only option.

Thank you Janni. Unfortunately they have been unmotivated until now, they've had three chances to sort things out and according to social services recent letter (which I believe whole heartedly) have been unaccomodating and reluctant to implement anything which has been suggested (had they done this the children might still have been at home).

Living with a mother who believes that the whole world is a witch hunt that is centred purely on her and has the one goal of removing the children from her care has got to be damaging too. I can only imagine what her slant would be on the children living with us.

So sorry for you, SimpleasABC/ It must be heartbreaking for you. I really hope that this time there can be something resembling a happy ending. If the social workers see you as someone who wants the best for the children, someone who is willing and able to work with them, they will be more than happy for you to have contact. For all the bad press that social workers get, they do try hard to keep families together.

(BTW I'm an adoptive parent, not a social worker and my adopted child has contact with her birth family)

I have nothing useful to add but wanted to say that I was so glad these children had a family member who cared about them. That will be so important for them, especially if they do remain in care, as they will have a sense of connection to their flesh and blood.

No one is talking about letting theirfamily "slip away," as far as I can see. You are doing a remarkable thing in liasing with SS as you are.

Just wanted to say all the best and hope the situation works out as best it can. It's good to see that you care.

SimpleAs-
don't ever feel guilty that you can't raise them - being in their lives will be the best thing you can do for them. Kids aren't necessarily best with family members simply because they are family - I'm sure you would be a great parent but you are not obliged to be.
Given their ages they may well look at adoption. The adptive parents would then get the decision regarding contact with you, but I've never come across an adopter who was obstructive to contact with positive caring relatives - they understand the importance to the children, and the value of consistent family contact is huge.
Their mother will have no influence over contact arrangements if they are adopted, and even if they remain in foster care the SWs will make the decisions about contact. We have bitter birth parents trying to stop contact with family members they don't like quite often - and if the kids want contact and it's positive for them SS don't listen!

Thank you again for all of your replies. I don't feel that I'm allowing anyone to slip away, that would be the much easier option. I only have the childrens best interests at heart.

Unfortunately as the mother (who is my fathers sister) attempted an overdose and is now in hospital so it will be difficult to collect any of the childrens belongings (her partner may be there but I have limited experience of him, as do my parents and I'd prefer not to be alone with him). However, I will try, tonight with my dad to see if we can.

Hi simpleasabc

I sympathise with your situation at the moment. I have had a similar situation with my son when his baby was put into foster placement from birth. Basically social services like to keep families involved but procedures usually take time to be put into place. After our grandson was put in foster care it took 2 weeks for contacts to be set up.
I think adoption comes as a last resort but then contacts are usually final. Having said that they do take into consideration childrens feelings if old enough.
With the children being older procedures may be a little different but you need to mither social services and show how you want to keep in contact. Maybe legal advice would help. Also the mother of our grandson lives close by but never has come any where near. When I say close about 5 mins drive.
I hope that everything works out ok for you. I have lost sleep in the past with so many questions that I neede to know.

hey simpleasabc am in a very simila situation as my cousins have been taken in to careand the older three have been adopted (i think ) but i am currantly waiting to here from ss as to wether i am able to adopt the youngest . i already have four children and ss are dragging the heels as we live neer to her parents and they are worrid they will kick of and reading this today has putt things in a new light for me as i was in care but placed with my nana and can rember the arguments betweenn my nan and mum both two very special people too me and now im thinking am i doing the right thing ? i know how i felt and do i want to put this child threw it too? even though the bp are all for us haveing her they are /were drug addicts and whos to say they wont "have a bad day"!!! any ways you are doing an amazing thing and i wish you the best for the future

It's very possible to remain involved even if you are unable to take the children on fulltime yourselves.

Make sure SS know that you wish to continue contact and push for it. Often the reason for a break in contact at the beginning of an episode of being looked after is because it is perceived to be the best way for the children to settle in with fostercarers. This isn't necessarily the case but that's the thinking behind it.

Hopefully SS will be supportive of your wish to continue to have contact with the children as they go through the permanency route elsewhere. If they are adopted then to an extent it will depend on the adopters agreeing, however at the very least there's often the possibility of letterbox contact whereby addresses are kept private but photos and a degree of information are shared.

Can you make the children a photo album with pictures of you and them in it, pictures of important places etc (all named and labelled)? If you can, and can make copies of it, then it should be possible for a copy to stay on the file at social services even if the copy attached to the child goes missing. But that's if for some reason no contact whatsoever is permitted, and that is very unusual.

Grandparents and other significan adults can go to court to request contact orders too, although hopefully it won't come to that.

You're right in thinking SS would be unhappy about the children being placed permanently somewhere very close to the birth parents and for the reasons you state. However, if this is the only barrier to them being raised by relatives (and ss do have the facility, in fact an obligation, to provide relative carers with the same fostering allowances they'd provide to fostercarers so money needn't be as much of an issue as it may be - not suggesting that's all which is holding you back, just mentioning it cos SS probably won't!), then would moving house be an option at all? There may be grants available to help with that if necessary - the local authority can at times be generous in order to meet the needs of the child. Not always, but sometimes.

Tia

moondog, there's no reason to be aggressive with the op. very few familys willingly lets a child be adopted.

I have found that s.s. have been ok with the fact that birth parents live in same area as long as we prioritise the needs of the child and take appropriate action. you have to show that you can take necessary steps i.e. calling 999.

nine years of nappies, are you a social worker?

ive decided to try and see if social work would allow me and help me to care for the youngest child (the older one has behavioural issues which I'm unsure if I'd be able to cope with, support in the best way or even in the way which he needs and appears to be settling too.

how would i go about finding out more? setting up a meeting with SS?