Just wondered...........because when Angelina Jolie said about Shiloh that she felt that she needed less than the other children it really struck a cord with me. I am the Shiloh - always be OK, don't need what the others need, treated differently (not badly, just differently ) etc etc.

I don't have first hand experience, but I have a former colleague who was the "Shiloh" - the beautiful, talented, utterly delightful biological child with three ugly duckling adopted siblings who all had lots of issues.

She sailed through while fully recognising that she had received far less parental input than her adopted siblings.

Interesting question. I'm sorry you feel that way, it must be hard for you to get your needs met when you don't feel you're supposed to have them!

I am the mum of two birth and one adopted child and I do feel less sure about ever assuming the adopted one is OK. I sometimes feel as if I have her birth and foster parents looking over my shoulder and that I have to 'get it right' ..

I am also FASCINATED by Angelina Jolie's family and have wondered how she gives each of them what they need, so I'll be watching with interest.

That's interesting that she also had less parental input too.

I suppose I seem like I 'sail' through - but just wish it wasn't an automatic assumption that I will with everything.

God I'm being a twat tonight - they haven't even been horrible, just hate the blatant differences in parenting.

I was rather stunned (as a bio child in a bog standard nuclear family) that she seemed to take it all so much in her stride.

But she was incredibly beautiful and talented. Maybe it was very easy for her to be magnanimous.

" it must be hard for you to get your needs met when you don't feel you're supposed to have them! "

Wow - that's it exactly Janni.

And also an really fascinating perspective that you feel under more pressure to get it right.

Thanks for the post.

My brother and I were adopted, my younger sister is biological (makes her sound like a washing powder!)
Were were all treated equally by mum and dad. I find it incredibly sad that this exists. And incredibly lucky that we had a wonderful mum and dad.

You're welcome, GivePeas.

The funny thing is, that's how I felt as a child even though I'm not adopted, because in my family my father was the loud, needy one around whom everything revolved and I was the middle child, trying to be a diplomat and supporting my mother.

I would be worried about assuming that ANY child needs you less because they are your biological child. I was also a bit stunned at Angelina and Brad stating that Zahara would be expected to run their TB clinic when she grows up...I know with six kids it must be tempting to try to map out what they need/what they will do...but it's pretty risky!

How old are you now, Givepeas and do your parents know at all how you feel?

I generally am very magnanimous too - for some reason you just 'know' to be.

It's wierd !

I am very interested to see whether other bio children with adopted siblings have similar experiences.

AJ can't know what Shiloh need yet. She may turn aboput to be very needy.

Oh Peas, that sounds very unfair and unreasonable.

I was told by a Mum who had both that the bio tend to be "assumed to be OK" and the adopted "assumed not to be". I suppose that because she was aware of it, she was able to deal with it better. Incidentally, the reason she told me was that my parents had taken a friend under their wings a bit (she was an adult, but young enough to be their daughter) and I was feeling quite left out, even though I was going through a really rough patch at the time.
My parents have always done that kind of thing though, they fostered, they took in foreign students, it was just in their nature. And they've told me on more than one occasion that they trusted me that I would always be alright. I'm not sure whether that makes me feel or .

33 - way too old to be pissed off.

And def. this happens without adoption in the family, I agree.

Parents wouldn't know how I feel. In fact I am not really sure how I feel. I suppose as you assess your own parenting you reflect on your own upbringing and see which bits you didn't like.

Please don't get me wrong - they are fantastic parents, just treat me differently to sibs, probably not even consciously !

It was just what Angelina verbalised, and to quote, she said:

" I think I feel so much more for Madd and Zee because they're survivors, they came through so much. In some way they're strangers because they had this life before me.

"Shiloh seemed so privileged form the moment she was born, I have less inclination to feel for her. I have the do the opposite from what I expected!"

And I understand where she is coming from - my sibs had some sort of stigma,and both don't know their bio background even now. I don't have that.

It's just sometimes............!

Shiloh's is a strange kind of privilege, though. I would not like to grow up with the eyes of the world on me and my family.

Ooh I think you can still feel disappointed in your parents at 33! I'm 43 and recently admitted to my mum that I'd had therapy to deal with my rather weird childhood because I got fed up with her breathing a sigh of relief that I and my brothers seemed to have turned out OK.

Now I feel really mean for telling her

God I feel better blurting all that out. I have never spoken about these feelings before. And I really didn't expect to have any replies at all to this thread !!

Thanks all. I think I am being slightly unreasonable. They are not horrible parents. They are nice. They also always had children in the house - Barnados children every holiday etc - and what a great thing to do !

I probably should just "get over it" and I think I will !

You are entitled to your feelings Peas. It was unfair to assume you were fine. I think it's great to accept it, but you are not a bad person to have criticisms of your parents.

How is your realtionship with your siblings, is it effecting that?

Don't feel too mean because she obviously already knew that it was a difficult childhood, and probably she will be happy the therapy helped. (maybe eventually happy !)

Sibling relationships are fine - we are quite different but absolutely no quarrels or fallouts (yet!)

I have no experience of adoption but I was shocked at Angelina's comments. No child is priviledged if it doesn't have the unconditional love of its parent, and I felt so sad for that little girl. HEr mother loves her less because she 'seemed so privileged' what will she feel when she's older and sees that quote. THe parents should care for all the children equally. Just because she wasn't born into poverty doesn't mean she doesn't deserve her mother's love.

This is why I can't bear AJ and her 'rainbow family'. I don't think she has any idea what her children need and will end up with a brood of damaged children.
I mean, having IVF to ensure a multiple birth. Please.

GivePeasAChance - actually, as you reveal more of your parents' behaviour, I am beginning to think that you are not being at all unreasonable.

While it may a noble/laudable thing to adopt children and to open one's home to Barnardo's children for holidays etc, it is, IMO, very important indeed to remember one's biological family and that one's biological children must not be unduly displaced by the other children towards whom one wishes to extend a caring hand.

My mother, who worked in psychiatric rehabilitation, used to want to bring home "waifs & strays" for weekends and holidays. One year she wanted to include one in our Christmas lunch. We (me, my father and sister) kicked up a huge fuss - we didn't want a (rather odd) stranger at our Christmas celebrations as it would have destroyed the occasion for us. Fortunately my mother was outnumbered on that occasion.

Kat - I agree with you. My problem is also that I get a bit suspicious of celebs' motives or doing this. It's almost as if 'third world orphan' is the latest fashion accessory. They seem to go SHOPPING for them. Do kind of think that they would do more good funding orphanages or things like that. I think there's a certain degree of narcissism behind it, as well as self gratification. Poor 'pick 'n mix children'

peas - i felt like that because i was the NT kids with the SN sibling. I was always left to fend for myself as my sister was so needy . Not because of her disability ( which was very minor) but because of my parenst and her personalities. they are the kind of people who want to be seen as charitable and she is a very needy dependent person. they are well matched

i was always told i shoudl be grateful for my good health and that i must succeed to make it up to them and pay them back

kat - IVF rumours have been categorically denied.

My DS spent his first year in an orphanage - I would far rather AJ had adopted him than given more funding to the orphanage and left him, there if that was the only choices. There is no such thing as a "good" institution, I suspect even a slightly screwy celeb mother is better than a succession of carers and no family at all, no clothes of your own, no toys of your own, limited education and generally on the streets at 14/15.

On the OP - difficult to say whether you are "entitled" (my emphasis ) to feel a bit gumpy about being treated differently or not. I was treated differently to my brother and sister (all of us bio) because I behaved differently, becasue I was different. I wasn't the type to cause a fuss about anything and pretty much drifted through childhood wihtout much parental attention compared to my Bro and Sis who were much higher maintenance.

Having a DS who was adopted I can say that I do thinki he has different (and probably extra) needs to a non-adopted child and I can imagine that this might take attention away any non-adopted sibling. The trade-off I guess is (looking at it as an adult) would you prefer the extra attention form your parents and have to deal with the issued surrounding being adopted or would you prefer to be the les complicated, lower maintenance one?

Not that you have a choice of course. But I do think its possible for almost anyone to look back at our childhood and identify something that we deem to be less favourable. Perhaps what you're doing is a version of that. Would you really rather have been in your siblings shoes?

Having re-read that I sounds rather hash on you Peas and I don't mean it to be.

(BTW - without meaning to be an apologist for AJ, she does donate significant money to orphanages)

Kew - I do totally agree and you put it so well. I think my OP was because I was interested to see whether this was a common thing or whether it was justmy family. I actually understand it totally really - it is actually very logical. Absolutely I would prefer to be treated as the one who is less maintenance. And when I say that I will get on with things I will. I don't think I will ever mention these fleeting feelings to my parents because they would be horrified and most likely very upset.

And also I really like Angelina - she has verbalised something that is probably very common and part of having adopted and bio children and so I can only respect her for that. I have no idea how they cope with all the children and only worry about all the moving about but apart from that minor point they have have my utmost respect.

Thanks for your post kew. It is really interesting.

I don't want to deny your rights to feel the way you do Peas - I still feel that lack of fuss when I got good O levels, A levels and a degree very keenly and with a great sense of injustice at 43, so I'm not actually in a position to lecture anyone else!

Yep - just those 'little' things. But as you say, as an adult you are able to rationalise it and make sense of it. It's not bad, just different and because it is not bad, there really is no problem !

I may be off here but I think AJ is unusual in having adopted & bio children so similar in age. Normally ime there is an age gap which allows differing needs to be met. For her to view them so differently makes me feel , as if she's overcompensating & not sure that's healthy for any of them.

Haven't read all of thread, just the first bit but I have an older db who was adopted and I wasn't.

On the surface throughout our childhoods we were treated equally apart from one shocking incident where my db was very physically violent towards me once when he was drunk, aged about 22 (and therefore old enough to know better imho) - I was 5 years younger.

My parents didn't really deal with what happened and didn't particularly say anything to him and I remember them strongly implying that it was because they had to make allowances because he was adopted. Wtf?

It left me feeling bitter for a long time. I had a black eye and bruising around my neck where he was strangling me.

I suppose I've given you quite an extreme example there OP.

I've not even thought about this for years and am actually quite close to my db but thinking about it after all this time is quite upsetting. Think I've been in denial. Anyway, I'm in danger of thread hijacking so will shut up now!

Surely as soon as you give your biological child less of yourself then you are in fact causing them to be in need as much as an adopted child. I hope tht makes sense I didnt know how to put what I meant.

Chip - that is a quite shocking incident. I don't know what to say really. It's wierd. I understand totally why parents do it, but still it's wierd.

Poor you, Chipmunk. That's awful

I was thinking about this thread today when dealing with my adopted DD, aged 3. She has a tendency to shout at, push away, take things off her 8 year old brother and to favour her 12 year old brother. It would be tempting to try to persuade the 8 year old to give in to her for the sake of family peace, but DH and I both feel strongly that that would not be good for her or us, so we end up dealing with her RAGES and I mean RAGES about things like...a piece of lego that she absolutely MUST have. And if you saw how much lego there is in our house, you would know that she is in no way lego-deprived

I think the rages are primal, they're not about lego or daft stuff like that, they're a chance to explode about what's happened to her in her short life...so we just put her somewhere safe and tell her we'll talk to her when she's calm. There's no point trying to hold or comfort her, she's like a furious wild animal. It's hard. When it's over though, she's sweet and ready to be cuddled.

That's a bit of a picture of why you have to tiptoe a little more around an adopted child - they have a secret part of themselves which you will never access and they have to know that you can 'hold' them, emotionally when it all gets too much.

Givepeas - my parents did and do a lot of strange things so it's not out of character.

It is awful that they did nothing afterwards. I felt, and if I think about it now, that I didn't matter. Obviously this is an extreme example and I hope none of you have something like this happen between your dcs.

I have another two half brothers and although I think one was away at the time, I remember the other one being really shocked and not understanding why our parents had done so little to discipline the other brother.

It was not a situation where we were both to blame or I provoked him. I was on the phone to my boyfriend at the time and he wanted to use the phone. That was the provocation.
The thread isn't about my relationship with db so I won't go down that route any further.

What I will say is, be mindful of going too far with trying to make allowances for adopted dcs compared to biological ones.

I wonder some times if I treat dd as a 'shiloh child' as she is so competent and (to be blunt) clever, whilst ds has severe cerebral palsy. I try hard not to treat my kids differently, although they do have different needs. I have read this thread with interest and now I am going to give my dd a hug and tell her how much I love her.

Janni - without being too crawly bum lick, you sound like an awesome adoptive parent.

I am so sorry about that incident Chip; I do understand, although I have not had anything so extreme.

And Lojoes - I think this is the crux - children have different needs, and as a parent you have to deal the best you can with it ?

I wasn't adopted, but have 2 daughters, dd1 birth child, dd2 adopted. dd1 has special needs (which have become more severe since the adoption of dd2 - but in no way related to the adoption) but dd2 does not.

I try to balance the 2 very different needs of each daughter, but felt awful for (adopted) dd2 this week as dd1 was admitted to hospital mid week, and then had to have emergency brain surgery. The next day dd2 went off with (very good and fabulous) family friends, who have 2 children, for the day, the night and the next day until 6. I felt DREADFUL, as if she was being 'shipped off' whilst dh and I were at neuro ward in hospital. In truth dd2 had 2 fabulous days and loved the 'sleepover' (her first ever, and a bit younger than I had anticipated!!) but I felt so guilty. She did visit the neuro ward the next day - not much fun for her - but we wanted her to see what was going on with her sister. (and the nurses made a great fuss of her, which she loved).

DD1 is home now (last night) so I want to take dd2 somewhere today (if dh will be with dd1) so she feels special and loved. Because I don't want her to think in later life that she was left out due to dd1's needs, or to somehow feel she was in any way left out in the cold due to dd1, 'the birth child'.

I think I am a bit tired and emotional too at the moment...... It's been quite a bad week!There was not much sleep to be had on the ward!

Pheasantplucker - i'm so sorry to hear about your DD1 - what a terrible time for you all. Glad to hear she is home now.

i don't know its its any consolation, but we had a time when our younger children were 4 and 15 months and one of the older ones was in hospital a lot. I felt SO SO guilty that the other two were looked after by a selection of relatives while we ran back and forward to the hospital.

However, our 4yo absolutely loved having her aunties to stay and was much happier being spoilt by them than staying at home with boring, stressed out Mum and Dad. She did go to the hospital too for a few vistits and wasn't upset by being there at all. So i don't think she felt neglected or left out at all - i hope your DD2 is the same

Thanks, GivePeas. I have my good and bad days like everyone!!

PheasantPlucker - I read a childs prayer today for his father who was giving a big presentation and was nervous about it - his DS said "God help Daddy be brave and do his best".

It struck me as pretty apt for all parents - try to be brave and do your best. If I look back and can feel that I did that, then I don't think I can ask for more even if I'm not the perfect parent.

Great advice Kewcumber. Thanks for your words too.
I took dd2 to the cinema for the first time ever yesterday, just dd2 and me. We had popcorn, watched the film, and I bought her a silly plastic thing from a machine in the foyer afterwards which 'was the best part of the cinema trip' (it was a toy Disney princess!) and told her how much fun I had had with her as we left via the escalator.

pheasant plucker.
Heh pp, do you have a vue near you, they do kids am movies you have to ring first to find out what the movie is andd what time its on, they cost £1.50 per child and a free adult ticket with every child.

lojoes - no, sadly ours is an Odeon. What a great idea though.

I knwo it's not exactly relevant but how come that twat Angelina can get away with saying she doesn't need to bond as much blah de balh yet then she can get IVF when thousands of others who actually give a shit about their children can't. She should have the lot taken from her, she wants to be the do-gooder but she doesn't actually give these kids a stable home they get shifted from pillar to post that can't be good for them. As far as I'm concerned the woman is obsessed with getting all the publicity for being such a 'good person' maybe someone should tell her that being a good prson doesn't make you a good parent. Now the twins will be shunted off too more than likely. Poor kids.

I am just deeply suspicious of people who publicise their children so determinedly, whether those kids are adopted or biological.

Yes the Pitts are famous but look at Ewan McGregor, who has also adopted a child, I believe from mongolia. He has 3 children and has never sold any pictures of them and goes to great lengths that they have a private life. He also respected his adopted daughters name and didn't change it!

She didn't have IVF.

I sold my DS's picture and changed his name.

But I think the difference is motivation - their media campaign is so sustained and their kids are so globally public, I tihnk that is a helluvalot different to what I imagine was an article/s about adoption?

How old was your DS when you adopted him? Their child was three. There are issues around identity and sense of self as I am sure you know and took into account with your own child.

and Ewan McGregors was 4.

All children deserve a family even a screwy family. People are not queueing up to adopt 2+ yr old asian boys, I understand thats why she chose to do so.

I have issue with aspects of AJ's family but to suggest her children should be taken away from her is tasteless.

Honoria - I really don't have a particular issue with you view that she shouldn't publicise then, its a reasonable view I just think people underestimate how terrible life in an institution is. The Hague convention agrees that being adopted into a culture not yours by birth is not ideal but still a better option than an institution.

I also think you are judging AJ by Uk adotpion norms when in the US on the whole - any adoption is seen to be a "good thing", often older childrne are adopted as standard, often names are changed as standard even with older children, childrne are adopted out of brith order. This is all seen as normal in the US.

In the Uk we have the culture that adoptions are rarely deemed "normal".

and Ewan McGregor used his "stardom" in other ways - its virtually impossible to adopt from Mongolia. He obviously used personal connections. Nothing wrong with that in my view, one less child growing up in an institution is a good thing. But lets not pretend there was anything normal about his adoption even if it wasn't publicised.

(as an aside I'm interested to know how you know they didn;t change the childs name as far as I know they haven't commented)

I had no idea that Ewan McGreggor had an adopted daughter, or any children come to think of it which does rather prove your point Honoria.

Re OP - Myself and my siblings are all bio. I am regularly told by my parents that they "don't have to worry about" me, and what I hear is "your issues are not as important as your brothers' issues". Whilst I know I am being silly and childish, I can't help feeling resentful sometimes.

I don't think it proves any point except that Ewan Mc thinks publicity is bad for his chidlren and AJ doesn't (or feels the best way to control publicity is to have one big photoshoot at the beginning and hope that keeps papps satisfied for a while). The proof will be what the children feel/are like when they grow up.

Most of the photos of AJ's kids are papped, do you really think that papps are following Ewan McGregor around trying to get photos of his kids (because if they are, they're not trying very hard)? AJ is in a differnt league of celeb and photos of her and her kids sell trashy magazines, Ewans don't.

Yes, that's the point I meant; the fact that I didn't know suggests that he is more private than AJ. That's all I meant

will step away from this now, too close a subject for me to think that any of those children are better off in a third world orphanage wihtout getting irate about it.

Pehaps I am too close to it, perhaps living in the kind of place I observed for life is better than having AJ as a mother.

Would love to know if any of you would prefer your DC's to live in one rather than have AJ as a parent?

I don't think anyone has suggested that her children would be better off in an orphanage. It repels me to see them touted about the way they are. Not the same thing. It's all about choices, too; it is a media campaign and anyone who thinks it is not is very naive. Ewan M could whip up a helluva lot of interest as well if he wanted to and acted in certain ways...

Not liking what they do publicity wise is not the same as thinking children should stay in orphanages, though I do of course understand why this issue is deeply affecting to you, kew.

"She should have the lot taken from her" - mamadiva

I know you werent suggesting that Honoria, and I agree disagreeing with the publicity is not necessarily the same thing. Its the kind of statements above that rile me and I've heard them a lot.

sorry, must read whole thread