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Our 3 week old grandchild is being removed from my son's girlfriend into foster care. She has emotional problems and been through care herself. Does anybody know procedures and what rights we may have as grandparents???
Right, just had a look at my CAB stuff, there is a section on care orders and people who may be party to court proceedings (assuming ss have initiated court proceedings). As follows;
In a court case, the people who are entitled to make a case to the court and have a lawyer to represent them are called parties to the proceedings. The following people are or can be parties in care proceedings:-
the local authority is always a party
the child is always a party. The child will be able to obtain publicly-funded legal services, without having to meet the criteria
anyone who has parental responsibility is always a party. They can obtain publicly-funded legal services, without having to meet the criteria
anyone else, including a relative, who has an interest in the child's upbringing can apply to be made a party to the proceedings. The relative would then be able to apply for publicly-funded legal services subject to meeting the financial eligibility criteria. S/he does not have to meet the other criteria.
Hope this helps, if not consider this a bump, so maybe someone more knowledgeable can help.
That helps a lot as I was told by the social worker that I could not be involved in proceedings. That I would have to do it seperately. The Interim care order was carried out at birth but mother and father did not stick to plan. The next court hearing is this month. I will have to apply to be involved then? I will be seeking legal advice this coming week.
Yes, might be best to see the solictor, I would also pop into your local CAB and see if you can get some up to date info re: your actual rights etc. They can print out info for you and give a clearer picture of how to deal with ss. Good luck.
Do not rely on social services to tell you your rights. they are often wrong. you woudl think that they shoudl be concerned about what is right for teh child, but in pratice their main concern is to make their own job easier. however nice/kind/sympathetic they seem.do not trust them. Work with them but DO NOT TRUST THEM.
if i were you i woudl get independent advice asap. put everything in writing. do you and your Dh want to care for the child,lijaco15? in the short term or the long term? Do you have the health/space/money to do this? Have you thought how this would affect your relationship with your son? If you dont want to care for the child, how do you want to be involved?
I also know someone who adopted their GC, the child had been removed from mother by SS (and yes she needed to be in this situation), part of the adoption critera was that the grandparents have had to agree to have no future contact with their daughter the GC mother.
Is your son interested in obtaining sole parental responisibility for his child?
This is a very long story. My son is now 17 years of age and basically got into the wrong crowd of people. He started smoking cannabis at 14 years of age, staying out and not coming home. Taking recreational type drugs, got into trouble with police. He was permanently excluded from school. We have tried everything to get him on track. We have had a difficult time as he has been brought up well and loved very much. We miss the way he used to be. We are also aware that his girl friend is violent to him. It is very long and complicated but he cannot be considered for this reason. We feel like we have been to hell and back. As parents we feel like we are also trying to prove that we are not like this. I have seen my grandson twice since he was born three weeks ago. We are being treated like we cannot be trusted. Social services justify this as we have the same rights as son's girlfriends mother bearing in mind she has had all 7 children removed due to neglect and abuse. The girlfriend is now at foster placement with baby as they want to give her every opportunity. I agree with this. The issue for me now is that I don't seem to have much right to see baby. Social services seem to tell lies also. I do not trust them.
I am so sorry to hear your sad story. please dont think that anyone on mumsnet will judge you because of your son, there are lots of mums here who have been through very difficult times with their teenagers.they are "adults" and sadly they often dont make very good choices
you need to think about what you and your Dh want. do you want to aply to adopt your grandchild? becase if your son and his Gf are not able to parent the child, they will be looking for a permanent family for him. they will not keep him in foster care just so his grandparenst can visit him IYSWIM. If your grandson is adopted, there is very little chance that you woudl be abel to still have contact with him. Could you live with that, knowing that he is placed with a loving family?
If you did adopt the baby, how woudl it affect your relationship with your son?
You have a vital role to play in these proceedings if you are considering putting yourself forward as an alternative carer for the child in the event that the Local Auhtority and the Court rule out the mother as carer.
If you are considering putting yourself forward DO NOT DELAY. Tell the LA that you wished to be assessed as a carer for the child. get yourself a solicitor to consider whether you should apply to become a party at this stage. With a baby things have to move pretty fast.
In terms of contact, with a child this age, your contact is not going to be considered a priority at this stage. There is no relationship to maintain and the most important part of the process at this point will be an on-going assessment of the relationship between the child and mother.
However you should ask (or get your solicitor to ask) the LA about their plans for your contact.They may be willing to put something in place at this stage
HTH I can imagine the turmoil that you must be going through. I hope it has a positive outcome for you.
I work for SS. You need to call the social worker on monday and express your wish to care for the child. You then need to instruct a solictor of your wish to come "party to procedings".
You need to tell your solictor you want to care for this child asap, and get him to ask social work team for any reason why you cant care for the child while court is ongoing.
They might ask for assessment of you instead and child may stay in FC until completed. Please be prepared to be asked some very hard and personal questions.
You need to request contact if you are planning to apply to care for child, and may be asked how you will manage contact between baby and your son if baby lives with you.
And thanks so much for the comments about social service Some of us do try and do whats best for the child. but understand this comment as I have met some terrible social workers
Don't think I can add anything to last two posters but thinking of you and your family lijaco.
I recently adopted two little boys, I sometimes wonder about their "other" grandparents and it must be hard for them. Realistically you may need to think in the longer term e.g. having letterbox contact so there is a positive relationship when child is grown up. But it is very early days.
thank you lisa for not getting about people not rating Sws. i'm sure it must feel a personal attack on you but its not. I knwo there are some good ones out there (I have worked with two or three over the years) but i'm afraid they are the exceptions rather than the rule.
My main concern in thsi situation is that SW are NOT solicitors and they often give out legal advice which is VERY misleading and which clients rely on and only find out they were wrong when its "too late". They sometimes present themselves as experts when they are not.
My other concern is that if a relative presents asking "what are our rights?", its easy to dismiss them, glibly stating in reports that they only seem concerned about themselves and not the welfare of the child.So the Gp need to knwo what to say and how to say it
another concern would be that son's gf ( baby's mother) will be judged in terms of her background and not her own abilities. i knwo that her own experince in care makes her "high risk" but she needs support and a chance to see if she CAN cope, while still keeping teh baby safe. but its worrying that teh baby is in care so young
My grandparents tried to adopt my half sister, as her mother and father were both unsuitable drug addicts, but the court told them they were too old (they were in there 60's)
in the end, she was put into foster care and then my father got custody of her, whislt she ended up pratically living with my nan and grandad anyway
my sisters mother died and then my dad did, and she was looked after by brother and finally went to foster care (this is over a period of about 10 years)
after my dad died, my sister had a nervous breakdown at school and told of some of the awful things that had happened to her and things she had to do
i beleive she would have been much better off and stabilised if my grandparents had of had custody (a fact social services later admitted)
so all i would say was get a bloody good soliciter and fight all the way, this way the child can grow up with its family, but in a stabile loving home with you
My son and girlfriend have now gone missing I have found out this morning. Police are out looking for them. I am very worried as I was informed by girlfriend's mother. We have become used to the fact that my son lives between friends etc and will not come home and live normally. So seeing him a few days at a time has become the usual. But his girlfriend been missing for three days and I have never been told. She needs to be with baby at foster carers. Very worried now about drugs. I have an appointment tomorrow with a solicitor.
that is awful news, I hope they find her, i am glad you are seeing a solicitor, I hope that they are found soon and that you get custody , it must be so stressful not being able to help right away.
if/when your son and gf return, will they still allow the Gf to stay in foster care with the baby? i suspect not, as they will be worried she will abscond with baby
are SS planning to move the baby to another placement? they may do so if they fear his mother will take him
will you still get access?
i am not a lawyer but i suspect this will have moved things onto a different level
you have not answered my question about whether or not you want to take on thsi baby. if you do you need to act fast.
i think that your son lives with you some of the time, is that right? that coudl complicate things i think
I dont take it personal when people make bad comments about SS as most of the time I agree, but mainly for the reason we are so understaffed we dont have the time to do the jobs as well as possible. Im lucky thatIma family support worker and have a limit to the number of cases I hold (In other words I can say no
If your son has gone off with GF it is likely that the child may be moved to a new placement.
And yes they will have to look at the way your son is and how was brought up too, but I undertand that sometimes its not the parents fault and in no way suggesting this is the case here.
You need to find a good solitor, request comtact and resistancy asap if thats what you want. You can also ask for a kinship assessment, which is different to adopation but your solictor can help you the best way forward.
You may well be asked to choose between your son and the baby if he is deemed to unsafe to spend time with the baby.
Hugs
Good Luck
Me and my husband are willing to adopt baby if the need arises. s.s. want to make sure that girlfriend has every opportunity to care for baby first. She is very reliant on my son and can not cope when he isn't there. He is not allowed at foster carers. I don't know what the plan will be with s.s. now though.
I'm sorry, it doenst sound very hopeful that she will be able to keep the baby. she can't be supported by her own family as her mother has had her own kids removed. she has run away from the Fcers leaving the baby. She can't manage on her own without her Bf who is not allowed any contact with the baby, so she has to choose between her Bf and her son. Have i understood this all correctly?
you and your Dh woudl like to adopt the baby but your son lives with you some of the time, so he woudl have to move out.so you woudl have to choose between your son and your grandson?
Are SS really suggesting that your son has NEVER to have any contact, even supervised, with his own child???
In reply my son is allowed contact but not at the foster carers house. He is been told to keep away from the foster carer's house as they had an arguement there and his girlfriend started to hit him. His contact takes place at a family centre now. s.s. want to engage girlfriend on her own as they have a volatile relationship. She is more the aggressor. She is 18.5 and he is just 17 years. Her emotional problems involve self harm. So my son feels a responsibility to keep her safe and has had to deal with a lot of trauma since 16 years old. hE is emotionally drained with the pressure.
it sounds like a very difficult situation for a 17yo boy to cope with . i can see why you must be so worried
it sounds like Ss might be ok with him living with you if he you have teh baby, although access woudl be a bit complex i suspect...oh dear its all so difficult isnt it. i do hope your lawyer is able to help you find a way through this
I have been to see solicitor who is now going to help with more contact. The situation today is that the gf has been asked to leave the foster care placement. Baby is to be moved to a new placement on Monday. g.f. will not be moving with baby. I will be seeing solicitor again on Monday. We are going to be assessed in two weeks time say ss. The assessment takes approx 8 weeks I believe. Does anybody know anything with regards to assessment procedure??
My DH and I have a residence order for our 4 year old grandson (he's been with us since he was 5 months old) and we are assured that he will never, ever be returned to his parents. As grandparent carers going through a lengthy court battle - we learned that grandparents have no legal rights whatsoever (unless there is a residency order in their favour).
As for adoption - the courts generally frown on adoption within the family as it 'confuses' existing relationships. However, they can be supportive of grandparents who apply for a residence order as long as they can see that you have the welfare of the child as THE priority - often this can include you demonstrating how you would ensure that the child maintain some sort of contact with his/her parents (regardless of whatever has happened in the past) and you will need to show how you will facilitate this contact and ensure the child grows up knowing their personal history.
As for being made 'party to proceddings' - you can apply for this and it has to be agreed by all parties in court. We were made party to proceedings for the initial child protection case (as we had the full support of the social services)- but it was not applicable in the subsequent case and even though we won - we still had to fund ourselves at a cost of thousands of pounds.
The assessment procedure can be lengthy - dont rely on the 8 wks that you have been quoted. Ours involved full medicals as well a detailed investigation of your own, your DH's, any other children you have (even if grown up) and anyone elses background who lives in the house - and in some cases, those who might have regular contact with the child. Bear in mind too, that things can go wrong - one of the social work teams we had, lost over a years worth of information including all th assessment stuff - so we had to start the whole thing again.
Saying al that - I want to wish you luck and to say that I hope all goes according to plan. I wouldn't give GS up for anything now - even though I feel 90 most of the time .
Just to add on from what Joash said-there is now a half-way house between adoption and residence called special guardianship. Your solicitor will no doubt explain this to you.
I wish you lots of luck
at least things are moving forward now. poor baby has to have yet another move . do you have any news of your son and his Gf yet? did you find the solicitor helpful?
you have already been given good advice, all I was going to add is one of neighbours has custordy of his granddaughter(his sons daughter) because she was removed from the mother. He really is a scruffy hippy, in the nicest possible sense. His house is a mess, but he loves his granddaughter and it seems social services see this is the best, safest, most loving environment for the little girl he does a fab job. Good luck
I would really like baby to come to us rather than another placement now that we are being assessed. Don't think he can though. I will have to ask solicitor who I am seeing again on Monday. Solicitor very good and put everything over to me clearly. She wanted toknow why we couldn't be interim carers and I haven't been able to ask ss this question yet. Does anybody know what an interim carer is??
I think its a short term placement until the court hearing. i agree with you, the poor baby has already been through so much, he is so tiny and needs some stability. If i understand correctly, he has beem with his mother, then in foster care and now they want to move him to another f carer. And he's only 3 weeks old.
My friend was round today with her 5 week old baby who seemed just a scrap beside my toddlers and i was thinking of your poor little nephew, abandoned by his parents and with strangers
I would say that we were in a good position to start with as the social services automatically placed GS with us. I would advise you to become very vocalin this, as I do know of a couple of sets of grandparents who had grandchildren who were placed with foster carers and they have failed in trying to get their grandchildren with them. It seems that you do need the social services on your side. Have a look at some of the stories on www.frg.org.uk
There may also be problems if your son lives with you. If the soial services see him as some sort of threat to the child - they may not even consider placing the child with you.
It would be great to speak with baby's social worker but she is never at office when I ring, she does not answer emails and does not ring me after I have left messages. I have spoken with her once since baby been born. I have had more conversations with her manager.
get your solicitor to apply some pressure. Whilst I know that social workers are very busy she should not ignore you like this. You may have a vital role to play in these proceedings
We are now going to be assessed as long term carers. My son's girlfriend has not returned to foster carers. My son is now living with a relative and does not want to become involved with court proceedings. Case goes to court on Friday. Baby will be moved after court decision. Basically a waiting game now. Fingers crossed we will be able to care for baby soon.
how sad for everyone, i'm sure that your son and his Gf will regret it later when they are older. but sadly the baby cant wait for them to grow up and face up to their reponsibilities
at least this way your gs will grow up within his own family and have the love and security of a happy famliy home. you are doing a wonderful thing and i wish you well
There is now going to be another court hearing on Friday. I am really glad that grandson has been kept with foster carer and not moved. We are now going to be assessed as carers, but court will set the time of when etc now. We have a solicitor who is very good. Hopefully things will start to move along now. It is just all very frustrating.
PLease, whatever your thoughts - make sure that everything you do or say demonstrates how this is for the benefit of the child. However you feel PLEASE DON'T slag the mum off - keep it positive and try to put forward some plan for how you would make sure contact was/would be available for the child and parents.
I would definately not slag mum off. At the moment she and my son are missing I think they are involved with drugs. I am very worried about them. It is very hard for us as we have to priortise baby or make a hard decision to let him go. If we do this it will feel like a death. We feel like we are already mourning a son. This has had a huge impact on our lives. The girlfriend really needs help and I feel like ss have already failed her.
you are mourning a son and i really feel for you. you are grieving for the hopes and dreams you had for him, which seem shattered at the moment.
just like the rest of us, you probably imagined him growing up and going to college or getting a good job, buying a flat and being happy with a partner, maybe having kids one day. Not that he would take up with a girl who seems very unhappy and troubled, have a very volatile reltaionship, maybe be involved with drugs, have a baby at 17 and run off abandoning his child to the SS.
you must also be blaming yourslves - not because its your falut but thats what we tend to do as parents. keep wondering what we did wrong and how we have failed them. Its so hard to really believe that they make their own choices, and sadly lots of good and loving parenst have kids who make very foolish decsions and mess up their lives
I managed to track down my son at a flat that is so awful. He looks so ill very thin, full of scratches and spots. I took him to the shop and bought some food as he had none in and hadn't eaten all day. He told me how girlfriend attacks him and spits on him. He won't come home because she follows him and harms herself. She has said if he goes home she will go to the police and say that he has raped her! He assures me that he isn't doing drugs, but she has told social worker thst he is. He doesn't want to get involved with social worker or court because he fears what she will say. I am so torn because I feel that my son needs my help. I am scared that they will allow her to have baby and she is so viscous. I was already aware of her attacks on him and they have been very violent, but nothing I can do because he will not speak up.
Surely the GF has demonstrated that she is not responsible enough to look after the child by the way she disappeared from the foster carers. I am so glad you found your son because even though he is in a horrible place atleast you know he is relatively safe. He KNOWS you love him because you sought him out and gave him support. You must feel that you are being swamped by the situation. Glad you have got a good solicitor and that you are getting some support from mumsnet. Many mumsnetters thoughts are with you.
lijaco15 - I'm so peased that you've found your son whatever the circumstances. O know from experience with DD2 that its not easy seing your child wiht someone who has the potential to cause so many more problems than already exist. All I can say, is hang in there. He will get to a point when he needs you more than his GF. {{{HUGS}}}
My son has come home because he cannot cope with his g.f. anymore. She is in need of help and I feel for her as she has nobody. I have to help my son though as she is violent to him, is obsessional with cleaning and has to have everything a certain way. She has been saying allsorts of evil things that I don't want to go into. He is marked on his body and he is constantly spat upon. He stays with her because she will harm herself and there social services are not listening to him. He has now got a solicitor and seems very positive. I do feel that he needs counselling as he is very affected. I know that baby is safe with foster carer even though she allowed us to visit once when we did not know weather we could or not. She told us not to tell s.s. or baby would be removed. She also allowed my son to stay when it was not permitted. I haven't told s.s. as we did not want to risk losing the right to long term carer. She bragged about her child going to a private school and the costs!! I hope people don't foster for money!!!!!!!!!! Now she has has large portraits done of baby in her front room according to my son. I can't help feeling cheated. I would like to also say that if we have to let baby go and be adopted please don't think that all babies come from families that don't care. After reading the adoptions I feel reassured that there are genuine people out there wanting to love and cherish a baby and we couldn't ask for anything more.
I don't think anyone on here will think badly of you or your family should you decide to have your grandchild adopted, as it clear when reading your thread that you do love both your son and his child but are doing what is best in this horrible situation.
lijaco15 - as I told someone else last week - I would throw myself in front of a speeding lorry for my (adopted) son without hesitation. There are many loving parents for small babies queuing up if thats what you decide is right.
You may also be able to arrange some kind of ongoing contact if the baby is adopted even if only letterbox contact a couple of times a year. Discuss it with his social worker.
It is the start of our assessment tomorrow. It has to be completed within a month. I am a bit scared but things seem to be moving forward. I feel positive about this. Does anybody know what they may ask us???
I can tel you that the assessment process is very hard as they ask a lot of difficult questions. I felt drained after my assessment as I had on e on my own. My husband has had one on his own. The next one is together. It seems to be that we both felt grilled. We have another assessment on our own along with police checks. My son is being assessed also seperately. Things are going very well for him, he has now split up with his girlfriend, looking forward to going to college in September. We are so relieved. Speaking to my son's solicitor we have been told that assessment is going well. WE are being considered as legal gaurdians. Contact is being stepped up. So fingers crossed all may be well. Our assessment is to be completed mid August. We are very hopeful we really want to care for our little Grandson. We miss him so much!
I'm so pleased to hear that its going well . i was thinking about you and your family, its such a difficult time for you all. Its great that your son is thinking of going to college & that you are getting more access to your GS
Thank you for your message Kristina M. It is good to be able to talk about this openly on mumsnet. Can't really talk about it at with other people and I have found the feedback here to be so supportive. Thank you!
Do you know it is really weird coming across this thread now!!! My grandson came to live with us permenantly beginning of November 2008. He was moved from his foster placement as an emergency straight to us. Foster carer had become very attatched and was very difficult with me when trying to arrange contacts as we started to have them daily. She was so awkwhard it was awful and she asked very personal questions that eventually drew me to tears. It is ashame because I think my grandsons mother must have found things very difficult with her. Even though she never really had a chance. He is now 18 months old and we are very happy. He is doing really well he is a little chatterbox. We now have special gaurdianship of him and weare very proud. It has been a very difficult time and we have learnt so much from it. I originally posted on mumsnet desperate for advice and really didn't have a clue. Social services admit that our grandson should have come to us as soon as mum left her placement. A lot of mistakes were made really and things written up from s.s. for court were very inaccurate so you can't take everything written as true. But yes the dust has settled and things are good. Mum has letter box contact set up but has not participated as yet. I am now wondering about life story etc. Thank you for wondering.
oh wow Lijaco, I didn't notice that the thread was old, so to suddenly stumble on to the happy post saying that your grandson lives with you and that you have guardianship, that was lovely.
how lovely to hear from you! I'm so pleased to hear that he is settled and happy with you. how is your Ds ( his father) doing now? Does he see his son?
You have a DS or DD as well dont you - about 4? how are they adjusting to not being the baby any more?
my four year old son started school in September and acts like he is a really big boy. He has accepted g.s very well he is over the moon and very proud of him. They play together well and we are all going on a family hol next week. My other daughter is nearly 14 and is a typical teenager really so isn't really that interested in what is happening with the young ones. She is accepting of g.s and plays with them both now and again. My eldest son (g.s 's) father isn't with his gf now but does see her now and again. He says that he loves her very much but can see that it can never be. He is a lot better than he used to be but still needs a lot of direction. He is only 18 years old so still young. G.f I feel for really because she has had a very traumatic childhood, taken into care as a teenager. Lost touch with siblings who also were taken into care, twins adopted and one other younger one adopted. Her father was domestically violent and ended his own life. Her mother has no interest in her at all she has nobody except friends that she grew up with that are not a good influence. I was told by s.s. that last year she had a termination that was believed to be my son's baby. I was aware that she was pregnant and my son believes that her social worker pressured her into having the termination. She was about 20 weeks pregnant as well, so feel very sad about that. She was devestated after and started self harming again and now drinks very heavily most of the time. I think about her a lot because she has had so much hurt in her life and she is so damaged. Very difficult.
Interesting thread. We gained parental responsibility for my lovely GS - two and a half years ago now. This was a traumatic and soul destroying process, but I was prepared to do anything to keep him safe. He is now, and I feel your relief. The very best of luck to you and your family.
social woker should have given you a later in life letter for your grandson although tis may not have happenned as due to resources because you are family it would be less priority as you know alot about his beginning. If you would like some support in starting a life story BAAF have some good resources or you could write it yourself, include photo's of his mum and dad and any other relatives also an effective thing which is completed but not included is a road map which shows where a child is born they lived and with whom the most important thing is to keep it positive no-one wants to read negative things about their parents, another tip is think of how you would like your life story written or how you kept memories for your children it the samt thing only written also include when he came to you when you were grantwee special guardianship and include a child friendly description of what special guardianship is and what it means to you. Keep your side of the letterbox going as it can take parents soem time to be able to respond. I am glad you got there in the end
Thank you lijaco for sharing and updating your wonderful story - I'm glad it worked out OK in the end and I hope your GS's mother is able to get the help she needs too.
and sadly they often dont make very good choices 
about people not rating Sws. i'm sure it must feel a personal attack on you but its not. I knwo there are some good ones out there (I have worked with two or three over the years) but i'm afraid they are the exceptions rather than the rule.
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