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another food one - 'on demand' vs established routine

16 replies

namesmayhavebeenchanged · 17/08/2014 07:25

Hi all,

I have just adopted a baby under 1 and am looking for some advice re feeding.

So lo has a v strict routine with three bottles a day but I can see how desperate he is for those bottles. FC will literally not feed him ten minutes early and I can also see that mealtimes are pretty stressful for him.

My natural inclination (with bcs) is to feed on demand. I would be inclined therefore to offer more milk feeds and let him go at his own pace with the same jars of food he's been used to. He clearly also takes a lot of comfort from the bottle so that might be another reason to offer more?

Fc has been wrong about all sorts of things both wrt what DS can and will eat (for eg I have been told he won't touch finger food but when he visited us she tried all kinds of things - with great gusto! )

Clearly though my main aim when he moves is that he feels as safe and nurtured as possible so I need to make that an absolute priority. Could I be messing that up by offering more milk? Even if he clearly wants it?

TIA

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vickylu1 · 17/08/2014 08:49

Tricky one. Is he just under one or younger than that? If he's just under one or over 10 months then he probably doesn't need more milk and could have food or water instead or a cuddle/distraction from food if it's a comfort rather than hunger thing.

Ultimately, he is now your baby, CONGRATULATIONS, so whatever you feel is right is right! It doesn't matter what the foster carer insists on. Obviously completing changing his routine may cause him some stress at first but you need to do what feels right to you not what worked for someone else. :)

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Kewcumber · 17/08/2014 11:03

My DS was 13 months when I took full time custody and as he was institutionalised he was in a very very rigid routing. He was 3 months prem so more like 7-8 month old (taking into account his institutional delays as well).

I had the added problem of having to change his feed as he was fed on Kefir (rather than formula) which is virtually impossible to get in the UK so I had to transition him over to formula over a few weeks mixing the two as well.

I started off my keeping a kind of routine as I felt the total change to no routine would make him rather disorientated along with all the other changes but started bringing his feeds forward a little (13-30 mins) based on how hungry he seemed. HE was also allowed water at any time which he hadn't before.

The problem was he was hungry ALL THE TIME! He very quickly worked out that he had the potential to get more food which he hadn't before, you couldn't eat in front of him without him getting really upset. In the end I stuck with a similar routine (in timing) for formula feeds and jars of food but starting giving him snacks in between meals. I resorted to bloody rice cakes in the end which I hate, just because I was worried about how much he was eating. He couldn't stop - he ate until he was sick every day. And I just let him - despite being worried that I was going to kill him from over feeding.

It all seems a long time ago now - DS is 9 in November and a fit slim sporty boy who self regulates very well with food.

I would suggest you keep some semblance of a routine with some adjustments to allow for when he's hungry.

Oh and if I'm honest having a routine for him kept me sane in the early days so don;t throw it out too quickly unless you are absolutely sure you can cope with having a 1 year old on your own at home with no routine!

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Deverethemuzzler · 17/08/2014 11:16

My instincts would say feed on demand.
My DS was much younger (8 weeks) and he fed like a mad thing. Taking an oz an hour all through the day and night for a few months.

It wasn't about the milk Sad

It was very tiring so heed Kew's advice.

But it did feel the right thing to do in our circumstances.

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Kewcumber · 17/08/2014 11:21

And to be fair Ms DV - 8 weeks is a bit different to 8 months as you have the option of offering snacks (which he had in quantity!). Also having had children before, you probably coped a great deal better than I did with DS!

It still amazes me that DS isn't like a barrel. He still eats large quantities but does so much exercise that he burns it all off and is quite capable of stopping and saying "No thank you, I've had enough".

I suspect he may have not learnt to self regulate if he hadn't been allowed to eat as much as he wanted.

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Kewcumber · 17/08/2014 11:21

Slight hijack - haven't seen you around recently - how the very devil are you?

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Dizzythedragon · 17/08/2014 11:45

I think you need to keep two things firmly in mind -

whatever you do, you can't stop the move from being distressing; don't feel guilty about that

and

your LO can't tell the time yet.

I am by no means an expert, but I believe that at these young ages, routines are less about doing certain things at certain times (as they can't tell the time) but about certain sequences, so, x happens after y, then z. These sequences lead to expectations being met. When expectations are met, we feel positive.
So, stick to these sequences as much as possible.

However. If your LO's expectations are that his needs won't be met; that he will have to wait, suffer, be anxious, be hungry, and won't get what he needs until a period of suffering has gone by - then I feel that you should NOT meet his expectations (that he will need to suffer, then will get a bottle), but rather meet his needs - thereby hopefully starting to change his expectations.

You need to be aware though that this will most likely completely overthrow the clock schedule, so you will need to be flexible enough to be able to stick to the sequences despite things falling at odd times. That's one important thing that kind of 'locked us in' - we couldn't (and still can't) go out for long times as we can't trust the clock - we're following the sequences and so always need to be ready, whatever the time is.
If you are unable to deal with unpredictable timings, for whatever reason; and this would make you unable to meet his need for predictability (of sequences); then perhaps (painfully) keep the clock schedule up initially, giving you all some time to get used to each other, to learn to 'read' each other, and then make this the first change you undertake once you are all a bit more settled.

Also, with regards to 'unhealthy' things it is a bit different. I'd say, who cares if he gets entirely too much sugar (just an example) - if he is used to having sugary things and takes comfort from them, then let him have them. When he is settled and attached, you can always start phasing them out later. But for now, easing the move and keeping him feeling secure in his expectations overrules the need for 'health' in that sense.


This is based on our recent (and ongoing) experience with a very young LO. LO's FC stated that LO must be 'made' to finish each bottle, or LO wouldn't last to the next feed. We had misgivings about this (recommendations are to never make babies finish their bottles but to let them decide themselves when they have enough) but as we couldn't yet properly interpret LO's behaviour (is LO taking a break from feeding, does LO just need winding, or has LO actually had enough?) we initially went along with this. However, despite making LO finish the bottles, LO would be desperate for the next bottle after 3 hours maximum, often even sooner, rather than the steady 4 hours that LO used to 'last' at FC. So we fed LO whenever we felt pretty convinced that LO wanted a bottle. I believe that LO wasn't 'hungry' as such, but desperate for comfort due to new place, new faces, new everything; and wasn't yet able to derive that comfort from us in other ways. Feeding LO every three hours (or so) then caused timeframes to get very short - LO was used to certain sequences of sleeping, waking, nappy changing, feeding, bathing etc. and these sequences now kind of had to fit into 3 hours rather than 4 ... causing all sorts of follow-on disruptions of the clock schedule, and meaning that bedtimes/morning waking times etc. were different every day. We went with the flow (good thing no-one had to be anywhere at specific times!) but stuck to the 'sequences' as much as possible.
Oh, FC also stated that we mustn't make eye contact when feeding LO as that would distract LO and LO wouldn't 'get on and finish the bottle'. This is an expectation that we consciously decided NOT to meet - we felt that LOs need for eye contact and closeness/intimacy during feeding, particularly when building attachments, overruled LOs need to have the expectation 'no eye contact during feeding' met. So from day one we sought eye contact during feeding.

Over about two weeks, LO's need for feeds gradually relaxed back into a (more or less) 4 hour schedule, and is staying at that (for now!), despite us now no longer 'making' LO finish each bottle. LO's need for sleep/ability to sleep, that's another story that we're still working on! LO was described by FC as a baby who 'sleeps all the time' to the extent that there was not much point in any sort of introductions, as we would just be sitting around gazing at a sleeping baby. Well, babies change... particularly if they experience a traumatic move.

Hope this helps. Remember, your LO will not be the same child, so to say, as the LO who the FC looked after. Your LO will have the additional experience of losing everything he knew and being moved to a completely new environment. So, even after only a day of being home, YOU will know your LO better than anyone else, including FC. FC never knew this 'new' post-move LO. You do. And every day you will grow to know him more.

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Dizzythedragon · 17/08/2014 11:54

Hmm seems I took quite some time to post this - much has been said by Kew and MrsDevere in the meantime!
Sorry for x-posting!

And also to say that things have gone incredibly well for us so far, but by writing that it took (only!) two weeks for LO to relax back into a four hour routine, I have most likely majorly jinxed it!

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namesmayhavebeenchanged · 17/08/2014 13:42

No - thanks Dizzy, that whole thing about his expectation being to have to wait, be distressed, eat the jar, the whole jar and nothing but the jar is what I have been trying to articulate to myself and you nailed it :) I liked the thing about sequences too.

And thanks Kew and Devere the UKIP muzzler :) I have no idea how to feed a FF baby on demand. Do you just keep offering? Give an ounce or two an hour? Have the bottle always out and full?

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Deverethemuzzler · 17/08/2014 13:53

I am ok thanks Kew. Been up and down from me 'van where wifi is a pain so not been around as much as usual Grin

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Deverethemuzzler · 17/08/2014 13:56

Hmm. Just trying to think back because DAS was the only one of mine who was fully FF... its a bit of a blur too. He came to us with very little notice.

In those days you made up bottles in advance anyway so I could just get one out from the fridge and warm it up.
Once I realised he could only manage a tiny amount I bought some little bottles.
Then I gave up and switched to cartons (of his usual milk). They are an expensive way of FF but I reckoned we earned a bit of 'luxury' between us.

He still has really serious issues with food and he is 11 now. He is autistic though so that is a factor.

He came straight from BM who didn't really feed him much rather than from a FC with a strict routine though.

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Dizzythedragon · 17/08/2014 16:30

We started off with ready made formula, and stuck it in the microwave to heat.

Moved on to making up the bottles the same way that the tommy tippee 'machine' does, which is IMO the fastest way to safely make them up:

Say for a 210ml feed which needs 7 scoops of powder.

  • Boil a small amount of fresh water (not previously boiled water).
  • Put bottle on scales and set to zero.
  • Pour 90ml of boiling water into bottle. (the instruction to leave the water to cool down is purely to avoid scalding, and doesn't affect the nutrients in the milk or such)
  • Add formula (it helps if you have measured out the 7 scoops beforehand; especially as the steam from the still very hot water will make the powder stick to the scoop, thus causing you to get the wrong amount of powder)
  • Shake well


  • Reset the scales to zero
  • Add 120ml of cooled boiled water from the fridge

Finished - Bottle is at right temperature and ready to be 'served'.

By using scales you are much more precise regarding the amount of water you are using than by referring to the measurements on the bottles, and it resolves the problem of having to add the water first, powder later - if you weigh it, it doesn't matter which order you put it in.


Anyway, having worked out a quick way to make up the bottles, you can start off by not worrying about waste. You notice that LO is ready for a bottle, you make one up (2 mins) and offer it. You might have to throw 3/4 of it away... or you might find that he over-eats for a while... but he and you will soon work things out (him learning that a new bottle WILL be available when he wants one, you learning when he tends to want how much)
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namesmayhavebeenchanged · 17/08/2014 19:15

He'll drink it room temperature I found out today (accidentally, by giving him an extra bottle because he went wild when he saw me put his bottle away) is that OK if it's the ready made, or do I want it to be as much like breast milk as possible?

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namesmayhavebeenchanged · 17/08/2014 19:15

I like your system though...

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Dizzythedragon · 17/08/2014 20:05

Don't know really, though I know that people say it makes life lots easier if LO accepts milk at room temperature or even cold. It means that when you are out and about you always have a bottle at the ready and don't need to hunt for something to warm it up first.

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Deverethemuzzler · 17/08/2014 20:17

I always gave ready made at room temp.
DD would take straight out of the fridge. As she was my first I just assumed all babies did that Grin

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Kewcumber · 17/08/2014 21:17

Try having an institutionalised child... they'll pretty much eat anything anyway its given to them!

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