How long does attachment take?

[Italiangreyhound]

How long does attachment take?

OK, I know it's a case of how long is a piece of strong!

Our little boy has been home a few weeks now and I need to talk with professionals about when he will go to school etc.

I don't want to go into lots of details here (but feel free to PM me).

What I am really looking for is adoption related 'evidence' online that can back up my view that attachment is not a quick thing and that being separated from me for any length of time too soon with little one going into formal education and being away from me either half or whole days could be harmful for the forming of that bond.

I have already suggested to him a play date where I am not there and he reacted in a very negative way. I know he is not ready. This was just a play date which could have been quite short.

He is still young so legally does not need to be in school and I know that.

I suspect the schools we are looking at may be talking in terms of what is 'best' for him (I know they want to think about what is best for him, thta is what they have said but my concern is that not knowing him they will not know!).

I want to show, what I believe to be best for him, is for him to be with me for as long as is reasonably possible, with interaction with other kids and adults but with me there for his needs if and when he needs me.

I am happy to hear opinions, and experiences, but am really I am looking for cold hard facts and research, please.

Many thanks.

[Italiangreyhound]

This is the kind of thing I am thinking of....

www.adoptivefamilies.com/articles/2077/attachment-answers

bold is my own!

AF = Adoptive Parent (U.S. website I think)

DG = Deborah Gray, MSW, MPA, is author of the celebrated Attaching in Adoption: Practical Tools for Today’s Parents and Nurturing Adoptions: Creating Resilience After Neglect and Trauma. She is a faculty member of Portland State University’s Post-Graduate Certificate Programs in Foster Care and Adoption Therapy, and a sought-after keynote speaker. - See more at: www.adoptivefamilies.com/articles/2077/attachment-answers#sthash.q4x3VnSe.dpuf

"AF: How will you know when attachment is going right? How long will it take for a strong attachment to form?

DG: When children are growing in attachment, they show a clear preference for and investment in their parents. Does baby reach out for you and try to remain close to you? Does she keep an eye on you as you move about the room? Does she show a preference for being with you? Does she like to show you her toys? Some signs are less obvious—does he leave your side to try out new things, or does he cling and cry inconsolably if you put him down? [See “Signs of Healthy Attachment," above.]

There’s no firm timeline for attachment, but it generally takes at least six months to establish the foundation of a strong parent-child bond. Think of your newly adopted child as being “on empty” in love and resilience, and understand that it will take a long time to fill him up. You should watch for signs of an exclusive attachment by the end of the first year.

• See more at: www.adoptivefamilies.com/articles/2077/attachment-answers#sthash.q4x3VnSe.dpuf

[bberry]

I am a bit confused, If he does not legally need to go to school why do you need evidence for professionals?

enjoy as much pre school time with him as you can and, as his mum, you will judge what is best for him as time moves on as every child is different

[roadwalker]

I think there is confusion about attachment, attachment style and bonding
The attachment style is fixed with early brain development, though there are some who believe this can be challenged once the brain is mature
My DD has an anxious avoidant attachment and this will not change

Bonding however, DD was a textbook indiscriminately affection child. She was a toddler and would work her way around a room full if adults with arms up to everyone
She didn't seem to gain anything from each contact though
Once home and with lots of nurturing strategies and keeping outside contact to a minimum it took around 8 weeks and she was glued to my side
This was more healthy but not 'normal' and she excluded DH and DS
It took over a year before this lessened
It was very intense and suffocating at times
Your DS is older?
So your bonding strategies and progress will be different
The Louise Bomber book is IMO the best for school and gives an excellent explanation of attachment style
Has he had any assessment of attachment?

[fasparent]

Attachment's can be complicated and confusing with EX looked after children, dependant on history what is normal and what is not, also attachment problems can develop years ahead out of the blue after years of normality often in adolescence and beyond, Little things passed of from FC can help, like baby now loves the feel of cotton on DH shirt when being cuddled also loves the smell on clean washing that has hung too dry out side on the line ,
Was out walking with DD for example yesterday long day out , started a conversation of her childhood memory's with BP's , we had never been aware of ( she has a vivid memory as we are only just finding out ) 7 years after adoption. This is a continual sign of developing attachment's in trust and confidence.,
Feel a little bit of knowledge can be dangerous most parents adoptive or otherwise go with the flow meet problems as and when they occure.

[HappySunflower]

Will come back to this a bit later when have more time, but Louise Bomber has some excellent stuff around this, as does Heather Geddes.

[Kewcumber]

Just reading some Louise Bomber - very interesting

[Italiangreyhound]

Can you link to the pages you are reading or send me a PM, please Happysunflower, kew or roadwalker, please?

roadwalker I have an attachment meeting but he has not had an assessment (to my knowledge).

fasparent why do you think a little bit of knowledge is a bad thing? I am aiming for more than a little bit of knowledge.

bberry I agree that as his mum I will judge what is best but I would like help from professionals so I need to know how to 'state my case' so to speak.

Thanks one and all. Any specific sites/articles I can download, please? Especially about possible timeframes?

[HappySunflower]

This is the main website:
theyellowkite.co.uk

This blog author mentions EPAC documentation. Might be worth emailing her to ask for copies, she seems happy to share stuff
www.sallydonovan.net/2011/12/05/the-angry-adoptive-parents-make-a-difference-to-education/

[HappySunflower]

This is a fantastic book
www.amazon.co.uk/Inside-Hurting-Strategies-Supporting-Difficulties/dp/1903269113?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

[Kewcumber]

Our social worker recommended www.amazon.co.uk/Smart-but-Scattered-Revolutionary-Executive/dp/1593854455/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1403443064&sr=1-1&keywords=smart%20scattered&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

But thats partly because DS is thought to have executive processing problems (I think thats new fashioned for impulse control issues)

[HappySunflower]

There's a great document available as a free download through this adoption uk page:
www.adoptionuk.org/sites/default/files/documents/LetsLearnTogetherNIMarch2013.pdf

I'm still trying to find something specifically about deferred school entry.
I know the was an article in adoption uk magazine about it. Will have a root around my back copies and see if I can find it.

[HappySunflower]

Lots of good links here
www.adoptionuk.org/resources/education

[Kewcumber]

I didn;t mean that link to go on this thread. It was for another!

[WhoWantsToLiveForever]

I attended training by the great Professor David Shemmings OBE www.kent.ac.uk/sspssr/staff/academic/shemmings.html on attachment. He says that he it's less useful to say "building an attachment" and look at it in terms of relationship. Additionally, there are different types of attachments, so saying "DS is attached to Italian" is not helpful. You need to explore what type of attachment he has and this will be linked to his past experiences.

Tbh, anything by Shemmings should be useful evidence.

I don't know how old your DS is but there are hallmarks of certain attachment styles which you may be able to find online. I can search through my notes to see if I have anything that might be useful for you if you'd like? I may not have anything but I'm happy to look.

[Italiangreyhound]

Thank you, WhoWantsToLiveForever that would be very kind, please pm me if you wish to talk more.

I am not sure about attachment, I mean I want him to have a healthy attachment to me, what is that called?

[Italiangreyhound]

WhoWantsToLiveForever I have pmed you. Thanks.

[HappySunflower]

What we aim for, in terms of attachment, is for our children to be securely attached to us. This link explains the types of attachment
www.essentialparenting.com/2010/05/22/the-forms-of-attachment/

The length of time it takes for a child to attach, is a very individual thing and a lot depends upon a child's past experiences of attachment, and the development of their neuropathways.
Each time I felt that my daughters attachment to be had grown stronger, my social worker would smile knowingly and say that in six months time and a years time, etc etc, I would look back and realise that she wasn't as securely attached to me as I had thought, because it would grow and grow over time. She was absolutely right :)

Margot's Sunderland is an excellent child psychologist. She has two great books which I thoroughly recommend. This is my favourite
www.amazon.co.uk/What-Every-Parent-Needs-Know/dp/1405320362?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

[FamiliesShareGerms]

I'm rubbish at literature, I'm afraid. But two quick thoughts: 1) don't even think about play dates and other stuff where you leave DS for a long time yet - months, not weeks. 2) When does DS start school? If it is soon and you can defer, seriously consider deferring.

Basically, DS doesn't need to be with anyone other than you for any real length of time for months yet, until he has a truly secure attachment to you. Anything that compromises that can't be for his benefit, even if in the short term it might be something you think he might like.

Back to your original question: DD formed a secure attachment with me about four months sooner than with DH. I don't think I can give a definitive timeframe, as it's not a simple linear process, it's something you become aware if very gradually when things happen (or don't happen), so it's something you look back at and realise the improvements that have taken place. (Hope that makes sense!)

[Hels20]

Italian I agree with Families. (I haven't ignored your PM - just trying to get access to a scanner and find the article.)

I am not surprised our DS reacted negatively to the idea of a play date without you. Even children who are not adopted at your son's age often don't like play dates where mummy isn't around.

I left my son with my best friend for 3 hours as I had an unavoidable meeting and DH was in another country. But he had been with us for just over 6 months and had been to my friend's house maybe 25 times before I did that.
I am not leaving him alone for a play date again probably until closer to when he starts school (Sept 2015).

He has been with us 7.5 months and I think we have a good attachment but I am not 100% sure. Don't run before he can walk!!

Good luck!

[Kewcumber]

DS didn't do playdates without me until after he'd started school with someone he knew very well. He'd been home 4 years at that point.

Italian I know your issue is convincing the school and I'm not sure you're going to find any literature that exactly fits what you need. I would be more inclined to say -

"I am certain that it would be better for DS to spend a lot more time attaching to me than starting school. I believe that deferring his start until reception 20xx would be the best approach for him and would allow him an amount of time in preschool first and being the oldest in his year isn't anymore out of his peer group than being one of the youngest in his year - a few months either way doesn't move him out of his peer group. If you won't consider that then he won't be starting reception in sept 20xx I will send him when I think he is ready at some point during the year. So either way he won't be starting until at the earliest Jan 20xx.

I know you only what whats right for him as do I, I strongly believe that starting in reception in sept 20xx with the advantage of a better attachment at home and being one of the oldest rather than youngest in his year is whats best"

[Italiangreyhound]

Thanks Families.

It is dawning on me more and more that I now (after less than two months) actually know my son better than anyone else, even better than his social worker (who has known him longer but less intensely). Plus more than his former foster family who knew and loved him greatly (and still do ) but who have not really seen his regression. So I am now the expert in my son (just as it should be! ).

What we are doing is groups where other kids are present but I am too, he loved helping to tidy up today (ALMOST A FIRST!) and if he doesn't like it we can leave at any time. The social workers are happy with this as he has a small chance to socialise but the pressure is off, where as with a play date there is more pressure (play date where I stay, I mean) we have only ever had people over when I am here. On one occasion a little boy at our house (and then once at the other family's house). Both times I was very much there. The other times people have come (only about three times) it was friends of my dd and ds kind of joined in a bit but not completely. He quite likes the 'big girls'!

I did talk to him about play dates and he was very clearly not keen to do anything that would involve not being with me. I knew it really but I wanted to check because I had a meeting up at school and felt a short play date would mean I did not need to take him with me. His response was scary, it was so clear he was not ready and made me feel bad for even asking him! So dh has the morning off when I have the school meeting. It is all fuel to my fire for deferring his school place! He is not starting school yet!

Thanks for all the support.

[Italiangreyhound]

The play date I mentioned in my original post is the same one I mentioned in my post to families. I only mentioned it the once! In case anyone things I am pestering him!

What was scary was he said yes to the play date why shacking his head and looking very scared! I felt like shit for asking him. I could see that whatever he said he was not happy and it is learning to tune into him that is both interesting and scary, what if I miss his cues! Luckily, this one was unmissable!

[Italiangreyhound]

while shaking his head!! Typos.

[Italiangreyhound]

Yes, Kew 100% agree. I am rehearsing it in my head day and night!

DD never had a play date without me until she was at school.

With dd she some times has play dates without me but if I know the mum I often stay for coffee etc.

I would like him to make a few friends his own age but I feel the toddler groups may do that as some of the kids are 3. Trouble is now they are off to pre school so early!

Thanks for all the advice and help. Just so you know I was not really thinking play date, I was really thinking babysitter for ds! My idea for a play date was really for someone to babysit him in the day at our house so I could go to the meeting at school because discussing about him in front of him was not a good idea.

[Hels20]

Italian - if it is about babysitting - can your DH take a day off whilst you go and do battle with school? Or can you get someone he knows reasonably well to come to the house to babysit - so that at least he is in familiar surroundings? After 3 months - we left DS with my Mum in our house whilst we had BM meeting etc...

It is tough and you are right. You probably do know your child best.

Article will be sent to you tomorrow!

Hang in there. It is hard.