Pre-school

[Italiangreyhound]

Hi all

Before our little one starts school we want him to get some time at pre-school. I've spoken to them and I can go in with him. He has seen it and seems keen, they have lots of toys and a great outside space and I think he will love it. I don't think he wants to be with me all the time but I will be there initially to make sure he is OK.

Please can I ask experienced adopters - any tips and advice?

He is quite sociable and intelligent.

I think he will cope but I am scared for him and also just plain worried staff at pre-school will have no idea of the situation/issues for a looked after child.

I am happy to discuss privately but not keen to reveal much more here but if anyone can warn/advise/guide me - I would be grateful, please.

I've got a birth child so I have been through all the pre-school/starting big school stuff but this is different! I am worried he will not cope or he will and it will be a sign he is not really bonded to me and that he won't properly attach.

Every time he smiles at anyone else or talks to anyone else I feel worried it is a sign he is not properly attaching.

[Italiangreyhound]

I also think the staff will think I am crazy for worrying so much, but that is not my concern!

[odyssey2001]

Sending an adopted child to nursery is not going to damage their attachment, that is not the way it works. However, you don't want your child becoming confused so limit their attachment points. Primary care needs should be fulfilled by just one or two people to begin with. We are four months in and we have stopped worrying. Our bond with our LO is stronger now than he was four months ago but that would have happened anyway. Does your child have poor or disorganised attachment?

In regards to them not knowing what to do, have a meeting with the team leader / manager / key worker etc and explain the things that may appear to be normal child behaviour but that you know to be something else. Don't bombard them with everything but tell them what they need to know, which may include snippets from his past to help them understand.

Just remember your child is not the first adopted child to go to nursery and survive. Being concerned is normal (we were) but:

1. don't let your child know you are anxious as they will send your discomfort
   and
   
2. I know you say you don't care about this, but try not to come across as too anxious with nursery staff, as they will be less likely to take what you say onboard if you seem neurotic.
   
   Good luck - letting them go and out off your sight is a big, but necessary, step forward.

[Angelwings11]

Hi Italian!

My AD has not long started at pre-school and really loves it. The nursery were excellent during the settling in process as they allowed me to settle her in over a longer period than other children. As a teacher myself I know the value of being kept up to speed in regards to a child's emotional state, so I thought it important to discuss possible triggers from her early life experiences and strategies that I use at home to help AD feel calm etc.

I think that the reason why AD has settled so well is for two reasons. Firstly, unlike other pre-schools that other adopters have discussed this nursery 'gets it'. There are Staff members who are perspective adopters and they are also quite up to speed on attachment, trauma etc. They have sent me on an attachment, trauma course (by Kate cairns) and have staff that have been trained in fifial play therapy. The second reason why I think that she has settled so well, is that AD has been placed with us for nearly two years and has only within the last few months attended pre-school. I waited as I think it took the first year at least, where we were still getting to know her (and she us). Also, in this time I was still getting a lot of rejecting behaviour from her and so I waited until she had built up her trust in me.

If I were to give you any advice it would be this, if he needs you to stay then stay or if he (like my AD) needs a longer settling in period then do this. Try not to be 'fobbed off' by the staff if they try and push him/you into leaving when he is not ready. His emotional well being is so important and even more so in these early days.

[kmarie100]

Hi dd is building up time at nursery in preparation for my return to work. She LOVES it. I was worried about attachment but I think the time away from each other has actually helped. When I pick her up she runs to me smiling and she's very loving and cuddly for the afternoon. We even have to hold hand through lunch! In our case absence does make the heart grow fonder.

[Kewcumber]

I'm going to buck the current trend here Italian (and I have PM'd you in more detail)

I think sending a child to pre-school without you a few weeks after moving in is a terrible idea! If you feel its necessary for him to go (and if I'm honest I'm not at all convinced that preparing him for school at this stage is the top of your priority list) then I would absolutely be there for him.

You know he doesn't have a problem socialising with other children so you're not trying to improve his socialisation skills. Then he has another change when he starts school.

DS's pre-school was lovely and he enjoyed parts of it a great deal but with hindsight he may have enjoyed it but it really wasn't what he needed. And he had been home 2 years by the time he started preschool. I really kick myself now 5 years later for not recognising what his needs were and yes I also allowed myself to be convinced that he was fine when really I kinda knew he wasn't. IN your situation the problem is how will you know if he needs you there? He might well at this stage separate fairly easily I would have thought but that doesn't necessarily mean its a good thing... or a bad thing for that matter, my point is you don't know so I would suggest you err on the side of caution.

Of course my DS is not your DS and their issues will be different. But even with an older child as your DS is, I would expect a newly placed child to be stuck to me like glue in the first few months.

Of course people who have adopted toddlers might well disagree with me!

[Italiangreyhound]

Thanks odyssey2001 Angelwings11 and kmarie100 for sharing your experiences.

Thanks Kew you have rightly identified all my fears! He is not stuck to me like glue, he is happy to be away e.g. in a room on the other side of a toddler hall, but I think he does look for me and in the toddlers he does not talk to other kids adults really, only me.

We have met up with friends, just really good friends but again he is only three so it is parallell play and not really a play date. If he were younger it would be so much easier to keep him alone but because he is used to playing with other kids and pre-school and he has said he is bored being at home all the time. Yes, we have been out, toddler swim once a week, to park etc but day on day there is a lot of time to fill which I am not quite used to (as I said by pm).

Bloody hell this is hard, all the guilt of birth child parenting and then some!

[Italiangreyhound]

Angelwings11 sorry to be dim but what does There are Staff members who are perspective adopters, mean, what are perspective adopters?

When you say They have sent me on an attachment, trauma course (by Kate cairns) do you mean the school paid for you to go on a course as an adoptive parent or are you also a teacher?

Apologies for being dense.

[disneygirl10]

Hi Italian,
I would be very cautious. My ds was a lot younger so no direct experience, we waited over a year to send him to playschool. But a close friend adopted a 4 year old when she was due to start school and she only delayed it by 8 weeks. She now has problems with school and my friend wishes she had delayed it.
When is he due to start school this sept or next? if its next sept could you delay playschool until xmas?

[Kewcumber]

Sorry Italian I didn't at your D's age mean stuck literally to your side I mean after so few weeks I wouldn't expect him to be out of your care. In your position I'd be looking for playgroups, music classes, tumble tots,story time at library where it fills the morning but you stay with him and perhaps more importantly help him.

I'm very sympathetic to needing to fill the day by the way.

[Hels20]

We sent DS to nursery 5 months after he came - but it was only for 2 hours, 3 afternoons a week. So 6 hours in total. We turned down a "free" state place because he would have had to go 9 am to 3.30pm every day from September - and so we used some savings and went private because I knew such a long period would be too much.

Next term, he is doing 3 afternoons again. Maybe after Christmas I will put him in the longer, morning sessions (but only 3 hours).

When he started, we did 1 hour a day for 2 weeks and then 90 mins. He is fine and seems very happy.

I certainly wouldn't have sent him earlier but, so far, I don't think it is a mistake to have sent him when I did.

When does your DS start reception? Sept 2015? If so, can you keep him at home until at least Sept 2014 and do what Kew suggests?

[Angelwings11]

Hi Italian

No apologies needed as I mistyped! I meant to say that there are some staff members that are 'prospective adopters'. The course I was invited to attend was free to all teachers, parents etc within my county.

I hadn't realised that you were so new into placement and agree completely with the other posts. AD had been with me for over 1 1/2 years before she attended pre-school or even left for a few hours with relatives without DH and I. If it were me I would not send him, your relationship is paramount here. He needs to learn that he can trust you etc which can take a very long time. May I ask are your SW pressurising you to send him?

[Italiangreyhound]

Have decided to not start little one at pre-school yet. It makes total sense to wait. I chatted to two social workers today and just expressed my fears and they were very supportive. I was being driven by an agenda which is not really his and I now see that.

[KristinaM]

Hi Italian , I have PMed you

FWIW I'm with hels and Kew on this.

[Italiangreyhound]

odyssey2001 I am not sure what type of attachment my little one has. Can you explain more? please. I did go on a training event but was told the type of attachment did not matter as the 'treatment' was the same.

I would love to discuss this more.

I wonder if people realise we are so new to this, he came to us last month, which is why I am so nervous about sending him to pre-school.

Angel no the social workers are not. They are being very supportive, it is my own misplaced sense of what is best! Feeling guilty right now!

PS This is all about my feelings and actions and not a judgement on anyone else at all.

[UnderTheNameOfSanders]

Italian - I can't quite remember how old your new DS is. When is he due to start school?

If starting school this sept then no point in pre-school yet just for 7 weeks.
If starting school next sept then you could start pre-school in Feb or Easter when little one has been with you longer.

I don't think it is necessary to do things before a little one is ready just to get them ready for the next stage iyswim?
(At our preschool you can do a whole day. Some people choose this so they can go back to work. But others choose it to get their child 'used to it for school'. But I think just because a child will have to do something when they are 4.5 there is no need to make them do it at 3.5 to get them 'ready for it').

We worked up really gradually with DD2, first toddlers, then 'toddler ballet' where I was in the next room, then pre-school 2 mornings, only gradually getting to 5 mornings after 4 terms. Each step was quite a big one for her, as she has never liked partings (even in y3 we went through clingy stages at going in time).

p.s. If starting school this Sept, consider mornings only. As you probably know from your BC, all the learning is done in the mornings, so going home at lunch they wouldn't miss much.

[Angelwings11]

Italian please do not be hard on yourself!

Sending hugs xx

[Italiangreyhound]

Thanks Sanders and angelwings.

[odyssey2001]

There is load of stuff all over the internet about attachment styles but at a glance this looked like a good start: www.psychalive.org/what-is-your-attachment-style/

Our son has presented with two different argument styles - disorganised attachment with his birth family and indiscriminate attachment when he first moved in with us. I am surprised you have been told that all children, regardless of attachment styles, should be treated the same (if I understand your comment about treatment correctly). My understanding is that every child needs to be treated as an individual with their specific attachment style being considered.

I still stand by what I said before but I did not realise you were only a month in. I am of the opinion that it may be too early. We didn't start until three months in and only for a couple of hours a week up to a couple of mornings only for the first month. A month or so after that we added another morning and we are not going to increase it again until later in the year.

Have they been to nursery before? I think that makes a big difference.

[odyssey2001]

attachment not argument styles.

However, our LO has many more than just two "argument styles"!

[Italiangreyhound]

Thanks odyssey2001, yes I was told it did not matter which attachment style they had the treatment was to form a good attachment with new parent.

I've had a look at the link. Thank you.

We have decided not to send him to pre-school yet.

[FamiliesShareGerms]

Hi Italian, don't be hard on yourself. I think we all agree parenting an adopted child is trickier than birth children . Half the posts on this board are testimony to that. You're only in really early days - remember to te yourself you are doing a fabulous job

[FamiliesShareGerms]

tell

[Kewcumber]

I agree that adoptive parenting is more complex than birth parenting sometimes and you're currently in a position of trying to parent a child you really don't know that well. I have much better insight into DS's reactions to the decisions I took now than I did at the time, which isn;t really terribly helpful to me.

I was so blinded by the idea that he really didn't have any attachment issues (much to my relief) that I ignored the warning signs that he really did. Because the warning signs are often present in birth children I allowed myself to be convinced by others that his reaction was "normal" when really I don;t think it was it was subtley different in its duration, intensity etc all small things which added together was a problem.

DS really doesn't have a significant problem or at least certainly not one which we can;t deal with between us but I truly wish I'd "listened" to him earlier and not revelled quite so much in how "normal" everything was!

Also I think doing what works for you isn't necessarily a bad thing, you just have to find the thing which works for you and him.

As I suggested in PM - get really busy, plan your day in an organised way and have an activity every day in addition to feeding the ducks, walking to the shops etc. DS needed to be out everyday at a young age and it certainly kept me sane. I went from being a senior professional with staff to do my bidding (Oh the good old days) to being a stay at home mum with a toddler with PAD.

I know you say you've decided against it but would the pre-school consider two mornings a week with you staying there - so using it more like a playgroup?

[MissFenella]

When DD came to us she was used to being in nursery full time 5 days a week and then dropping to 3 days a week as soon as she new the FC found out the adoption was going ahead. So DD was quite messed about and had no established routine.

I mirrored the time in nursery she was having at the time she came to us because That seemed to keep continuity and was DDs normality also she was very keen to go and play.

I feel as long as you handle the transition thoughtfully it should be well. After a year she moved up to full time attendance (as I went back to work). She loves it.

[MissFenella]

sorry about dodgy editing in that post