Maternity / Adoption leave equal, but nothing at all for intended parents of surrogacy, why?

(26 Posts)
EverythingsBeachy Thu 28-Mar-13 18:25:49

Been looking into leave at work. Huge huge company. Maternity pay seems pretty standard, and its adoption pay for adopting any child under aged 18 as long as one of you are not related is exactly the same pay as maternity.

But if you have a baby throughout surrogacy, even if it is biological both yours and your husbands, you are I titled to no pay/leave. You can save up your annual leave, or negotiate if they will let you take a short spell of unpaid leave, but that is it.

Makes having a child through surrogacy quite out of reach

QOD Fri 12-Apr-13 18:21:25

Po wasn't granted until dd was 8 months.

Union and appeal

EverythingsJustBeachy Fri 12-Apr-13 14:41:13

HR replied with no leave, just a few weeks unpaid. although once the parental.order goes through, I might be entitled to adoption leave, but from what I've heard that can take 9 months!
Have asked a final time for them to take it further. Will ohone my union for advice. Their website gave me the I do about qualifying for adoption leave once parental order gone through

EverythingsJustBeachy Tue 09-Apr-13 22:16:29

Hi, still no email reply from HR since I sent my first email back. I bet they're thinking, shit, we probably should really think about this and check this out!! More positive that they haven't replied.
Queen , that's good to know, I was hoping for 6months as an ideal minimum with a new born, 9months would be magic but I would accept 6months.
Will get back in touch with them if not heard anything by friday

QOD Tue 09-Apr-13 09:08:39

Queen of knickers, would you help her write a letter?

I'm pretty sure I threw in a "seems prejudiced against ..." Type of comment.

But 'twas yonks ago.

Queenofknickers Sun 07-Apr-13 18:45:46

I run an HR. dept and that sounds v odd - I would always grant same leave for parents regardless whether child was adopted, via a surrogate or whatever. Challenge them. Hard. Good luck smile

EverythingsJustBeachy Sun 07-Apr-13 18:38:25

Well if we did go down the surrogacy route, would not be able to go to work with a new born. I would certainly be off sick with lack of sleep and stress, and 6 months sick pay is more than they pay for maternity / adoption leave. I would not be allowed to work in a chronically new-born sleep deprieved state, in our contract you have to be very up front about being 100% able to work, if you are impaired in anyway then you have to seek help and go off sick if needed, or have limitations placed on your work.
especially as I'm assuming on creche would take a baby before 6 weeksanyway?

So it would be far cheaper for them to pay me adoption pay equivalent!

EverythingsJustBeachy Sat 06-Apr-13 11:12:43

My story for choosing surrogacy and work circumstances would be absolutely lapped up by the daily fail. But then I might struggle with work int he future and it might be against my contract to bring bad press on "the company"

I sent them an email giving them a bit of background about my situation, so hopefully HR will think "oh shit " we'll look awful if this ever gets out we denied her leave. Hopefully that'll be enough. Although getting pregnant via a surrogate could easily push us over into the law change anyway.

Will wait and see what my inbox says on Monday!

QOD Thu 04-Apr-13 20:53:21

I don't know about the law change

I worked at that point for Guardian Royal Exchange, they did NOT want to hit the Daily Fail as being a company who wouldn't support a long term dedicated worker in her only way of being a mum.

I did say I would seek legal advice as I felt it was a bit prejudiced. I spoke to the free legal advice service thru my home insurance. Someone from the British Maternity Association (searches memory) called me and said they'd support a case.

They backed down and offered it.

EverythingsJustBeachy Thu 04-Apr-13 20:15:26

They pay adoption leave for adoptions, but the policy is actually worded that this excludes children through surrogacy.

I have written back asking them if this is their final answer or there is room for talks,stating that obviously I would not be able to consider this to become a parent if I could not have any leave, paid or not and I would not leave a 1week old baby to return to work. Also I would not want to loose my job to do this as I am in a job where if I quit I can never return to it. I also told then that I would I tend to have a go at induci g breast feeding, not sure about if I would actually do this, but thought that would panic them!

I also told them that I knew the law was changing. Is it definitely going to be equal surrogacy / adoption / maternity pay in 2015?

QOD Thu 04-Apr-13 19:18:14

So they don't pay for adoption leave?

EverythingsJustBeachy Thu 04-Apr-13 19:02:48

Yes if you are the surrogate and hand the baby over on day if birth you get full maternity pay, and rightly so.

I have been I contact with HR today and they have told me I would qualify for no leave, they only pay out / let you have leave for surrogacy and adoption. They put this in writing to me in an email. They were unsure so to be fair went away and checked then sent me the email.

That's it then.

EverythingsJustBeachy Mon 01-Apr-13 23:17:17

Adoption and maternity leave and lay now equal

TheEasterQODdy Mon 01-Apr-13 18:24:17

No I'vehadaverybadday you don't have to adopt, it's covered under firstly pr with the birth mother and the actual father (intended father) and then you apply for a Parental Order which makes it legally a child of your marriage (the IP's or Intended Parents marriage)
Saying that, isn't adoption leave the same as maternity now?

TheEasterQODdy Mon 01-Apr-13 18:22:00

I got it, fully paid, in 98/99

I asked for it, was offered adoption leave (think at that time it was 6 months unpaid) and refused to accept that.

I suggested that I would be looking at taking up a test case to see if we could get a law changed.

Got offered normal maternity paid, got it in writing, then broke it to the company that my friend and colleague was the surrogate grin
She only took 6 weeks, 2 pre birth, 4 after to recover from c section.

That was in 1998!! Can't believe its not changed still.

ivehadaverybadday Mon 01-Apr-13 18:21:49

The NHS gives the same leave for surrogates as for adoption and standard maternity. Don't you have to officially adopt the child anyway, so you might come under the adoption leave criteria?

EverythingsJustBeachy Mon 01-Apr-13 18:17:53

Found that in 2015 IP from surrogacy should get same leave as adoption leave

Surrogacy
Intended parents of a child born through a surrogacy arrangement who meet the criteria to apply for a Parental Order will be eligible for statutory adoption leave and pay if they meet the qualifying criteria; and for flexible parental leave and pay if they meet the qualifying criteria. They will also be eligible for unpaid time off to attend two ante-natal appointments

From www.bis.gov.uk/assets/biscore/employment-matters/docs/m/12-1267-modern-workplaces-response-flexible-parental-leave.pdf page 7

There is hope, as I'm guessing most people starting out on surrogacy now, wouldn't be at that stage until 2015

bringonyourwreckingball Sun 31-Mar-13 18:10:20

It's all changing in a couple of years, intended parents under surrogacy arrangements will have roughly the same rights as adoptive parents. at the moment it's at the employer's discretion as there's no right to statutory leave or pay.

EverythingsBeachy Sun 31-Mar-13 18:07:59

Well if I can get some pay, and the NHS will transfer my ivf to use for surrogacy (not had any ivf or NHS treatment myself) and only have to take out loans to finance surrogates costs, it might be more doable.

Would be great to hear from anyone else who managed to secure pay after having a baby as intended parents through surrogacy

EverythingsBeachy Sun 31-Mar-13 18:05:59

Well, had a look at a few documents on the Internet and it says that the birth/surrogate mother gets full maternity leave/pay even if they give the baby up on day 1, but the mother who received the baby qualifies for no leave. They may given special dispensation to give adoption pay, but only the company part, you would not qualify for the statory maternity/adoption side of pay.

EverythingsBeachy Sun 31-Mar-13 17:58:19

The way we read the guidelines was if you were the birth/surrogate mother you still qualified for maternity leave, but if you had a baby through surrogacy/intended parents you didn't get pay. It said this excluded parents who had their children through surrogacy.

But it is reassuring that other people have managed to qualify for leave. My organisation / company is so big it has no room for manoeuvre, but will definitely double check next week.

Thanks for the responses, I think maybe I could consider surrogacy again if I got the equivalent of maternity leave / pay. Couldn't afford to pay surrogates costs/ivf costs (from multiple loans) and then have no pay from work!

HDEE Sat 30-Mar-13 18:20:47

BetterThanChocolate, it won't mean that, as that would be against the law. A surrogate mother has exactly the same rights as any other birthing employee.

HDEE Sat 30-Mar-13 18:19:50

The mother to the surrogate twins I gave birth to, managed to get Maternity Pay. She is/was a deputy head at a Primary school. I think she got six months half pay, but it was five years ago so can't remember.

BetterThanChocolate Sat 30-Mar-13 18:15:46

Are you sure when it refers to surrogacy it doesn't mean no paid leave if you are a surrogate?

EverythingsBeachy Fri 29-Mar-13 13:48:11

Tis a big uk wide company. Going to double check next week, but their policy documents stated it excluded pay for surrogacy.
Any one actually had paid leave for having a baby through surrogacy?
I suppose it doesn't really matter if you can afford to be a sahm, but I want to keep working part-time, and need to financially

anonymosity Thu 28-Mar-13 21:14:15

Can you renegotiate this on a one-off basis? Can you discuss with HR? I think they'd be hard pressed not to allow it, but it will very much depend on the company.

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