Ethnic matching

[Emmaroos]

Even though the government seemed to be making noises in favour of ethnicity not being a barrier to adoptions, I have just read all the information on my local authority website and it states very clearly that matching ethnicity is still a priority. Does anyone know if being Irish is considered an ethnic minority, or if British-born children with Irish heritage are just considered British?

[anonymosity]

I think they don't put Irish in a different category to British, if the child is born in the UK (and therefore British), its not a race or ethnicity in quite the same way.

[KristinaM]

Well im sure most irish people would think they are A race or an enthnicity! Heritage is more thna just the colour of your skin!!

That aside, to asnwer the op, SS are about 20 years behind on these issues. They mostly consider white and non white. Often they have litttle or no information about a childs birth father. They are ( bizarrely) much more interetsted in religious matching, despite the fact that most children placed for adoption are too young to personally subscribe to any religion.

So if you are irish, i think they would just consider you white european. Most prospective afopters woulndt want to limit themselves to only being considered for children with irish hertaige anyway

[Emmaroos]

But if the child happens to be of Jamaican origin but born in the UK then it is different? Because of their skin colour?
It's so bloody frustrating. We had always assumed that we would adopt from overseas, but it seems that the UK system is not very supportive of this option, in fact it seems as if the UK system isn't very supportive of adoption at all. I could understand the very low adoption rate, and the immense obstacles put in people's way, if the resulting success rate of adoptions was high, but it isn't. Anyway, rant over. Thanks for taking the time to reply.

[KristinaM]

You are right, the system in the uk ( and public opinion) is not supportive of adoption at all, especially overseas afoption. Its very sad

[Emmaroos]

Sorry Kristina, you posted while I was replying to anonymosity. No, we wouldn't want to restrict ourselves to adopting Irish children - we'd be delighted to adopt a child of any ethnicity, and had been under the misguided impression that ethnic matching was no longer a priority. When I discovered that the practice of leaving children languishing in care because of their ethnicity was still alive and well, I wondered if we could make our Irishness work on our behalf, but obviously not! We feel we are in a position to give love and opportunities in life to a child who might not have these things otherwise, but I am starting to think that relocating to a different country and doing a domestic adoption while domiciled there might be the best way to proceed. I know two families who have done that, and as well as returning home with an expanded family, the experience of living abroad, especially in a developing country, has been an enriching one for their older children.

[KristinaM]

There are some irish mums on this thread, some have adopted in ROI and soem overseas. They will probably be along later to add their advice

[Emmaroos]

Adopting overseas from the ROI has become a bit more difficult of late because inter-country adoption is now only permitted from Hague convention countries, and some of the countries where people have traditionally adopted are not signatories. Having said that it is still far more supported by Irish social services than it seems to be here in the UK. Unfortunately despite being Irish citizens we would have to have been resident for at least a year on our return before they would consider us, and after being declared 'eligible and suitable' the inter-country adoption would then be a further process so all in all that could easily take 3 or 4 years, and while we appreciate the need for an age gap between the children, too big an age gap and the adopted child would miss out on the real benefits of being part of a sibling group.
I'm sure we are experiencing the same frustrations that others in our position go through when it seems that the people who suffer because of all the bureaucracy are the very children the rules and regulations are supposed to protect. We are very lucky and already have two small boys, and we are also lucky enough to have the time and financial resources to add to our family. We thought it made sense to offer what we have to a child who already needs a family rather than bringing another child into the world. From the reaction of our local authority to our initial enquiry it seems that the bureaucrats would rather we just had another birth child! I used to work for this LA as a special needs teacher before becoming a full time Mum, but even with my experience of how frustrating and flawed the system can be, I wasn't expecting the initial brick wall that I met.

[Happyasapiginshite]

Well whatever you do Emmaroos, don't come home! Our adoption took 7 years from start to finish and 4 of those years were waiting for and being assessed by the HSE.

Best of luck, or should I say go n-eirí libh!

[Devora]

Adoption is a market, and you need to understand the market in order to get the best outcome. In some areas your Irish ethnicity will be an asset; in others, not at all. You do know that you don't have to confine yourself to your home local authority? You can also apply to other local authorities (and voluntary adoption agencies) near you. If you are in London, this gives you a LOT of choice.

We had a pretty easy ride of getting approved, largely because my dp is black Caribbean. My predominant ethnic/cultural identity is European Jewish, which was seriously nul points in the adoption market (there are of course specialist Jewish adoption agencies, but I wasn't Jewish enough for them). However, my Irish background - which is, frankly, about as dormant as it is possible for an ethnic heritage to get - was suddenly of great interest. Reason? We adopted through Ealing, which has large Irish and black Caribbean populations, and a lot of children who are a combination of both.

The ethnic matching thing is seriously frustrating in the facile and doctrinaire ways it often gets interpreted. But I do think things are changing. I have recently met two white couples who have adopted dual heritage children.

Ring all the adoption agencies you can. Talk to them. Go with the one that seems (a) keen on you, (b) efficient.

Best of luck.

[Emmaroos]

I'm all for working the system as best we can! Sadly we are lacking even a smidgeon of African ancestry - we're both very pasty, even after our hols! The good news is that Hammersmith and Fulham have invited me in to get some information from me, so I am optimistically hoping that this is because of the Irish factor. I know that when I was teaching I came across quite a few children with Irish backgrounds in the care system. It broke my heart when one 15 year old girl explained that she would soon be moved to a hostel when she turned 16, to free up her (very inadequate) foster place for the next child in the queue. She had been in numerous foster homes and had no ongoing contact with her birth family or any of her previous foster parents. How can turning an ill prepared and vulnerable child into a bedsit to fend for herself be preferable to finding her a loving stable family of a different ethnicity? I know social workers are overstretched and under huge pressure to play it safe for fear that even the slightest risk could blow up in their faces, but surely they have to realise that there is a better way? The cost, emotional and financial, of the way the system currently operates must be enormous.

[Devora]

Ah, you are in London. Have you also tried Ealing, Richmond, Kensington & Chelsea?

[junowiththegladrags]

We've been told that the fact I'm Irish is an "advantage" for us. The specific sentence being that we had "ethnic diversity in our background".

The key is to don't give up. We had a difficult time getting accepted for assessment and it took so much more perseverance than I imagined to get this far. Saying that I've found the home study not too bad so far probably because it was so bloody difficult to get accepted.

We are with a London s/s dept, PM me if you want any details, I'm paranoid about t'internet security since starting all this malarky.

[Emmaroos]

Happy, I've just caught up with your name changes from your other thread. Am bawling my eyes out (I can't imagine anyone reading it and not bawling). It's so sad that the door is now closed on Russia for other prospective parents because it sounds as if you encountered a system that was genuinely trying to do its best for the children in its care. Hope it's all going blissfully well and that you're not too sleep deprived!
We have a basic POA. We're going to talk to the LA's here in London and pursue that process as far as it takes us over the next two and a bit years. If there's a child out there who would fit well into our family we have to trust that SS will want to get us together if they think we can offer him/her something that nobody else on their books can. If the children that would work for our family have loads of other suitable families queuing up for them then domestic adoption might not be for us. In tandem, we're gently investigating suitable countries in case we do decide to relocate with adoption in mind when DH finishes his current contract in the UK. If neither of these avenues lead us to a child who needs us, then when we come back to Dublin (I think we'd want a larger age gap between our birth children and foster children) I'll investigate fostering. DH isn't totally convinced about the 'giving the child back' part of the whole fostering thing at the moment, but I'm thinking of starting him gently on labradors (guide dog puppy-walking) so he sees for himself that the positives might just outweigh the negatives!

[Hanoigal]

I agree with Happy - don't come back to Ireland! Took us 5 and a half years to adopt our beautiful boy from Vietnam - and 3 of those were just sat on a waiting list to be assigned a social worker. Although it is worth pointing out that domestic adoption in Ireland doesn't really exist in any real sense - apart from family adoptions. We often wished we lived in the UK when we saw programs on British telly about the hunt for adoptive parents. But it seems more complicated than it looks over there?

[jshm2]

erh... They actually mean ethnicity in terms of Black, White, Asian etc kids being given to respective ethnic families.

The problem of the adoption failing is less likely if the child is the same race as it's parents.

Irish is not really an ethnicity and neither is British. "British" people are of Scotland, England, Northern Ireland and Wales. Most English are of German and French decent whereas Irish, Welsh and Scots (Many of who are themselves of Irish decent) are Celts who were the indigenous populations before the Anglo Saxon and Viking invasions.

[KristinaM]

Really? Thats an intertesimg theory jsm. I certainly dont know any families that would describe themselves as " asian" , as opposed to , say, scottish pakistiani or chinese malaysian.your definitions of enthnicity are unusual, to say the least.

I havent seen any research that indicates that ethnic matchimg as you describe it results in fewre disruptions. Coulld you please tell me where i can find it ?

Thanks

[Devora]

I don't think there's one definition of what 'they' mean, jshm2. I have a friend (white UK, with Turkish dh) who was only allowed to adopt half-Turkish child. I have another - Turkish Armenian with a white UK partner - who was told she could only adopt a half Turkish Armenian child. We missed out on a particular child because we (or rather, dp) was black Caribbean rather than black African, and it was a definite plus for us that the child we adopted was from the same part of the Caribbean as my dp (though has never actually been there). Many social workers are not just looking for an ethnic match that correlates continents, but one that maximises the cultural fit - meaning they can expose them to similar food, customs, language, religion, as well as broad ethnicity.

I have to take issue with your definition of ethnicity, but that's for another thread.