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Incompetents on huge you know any?

(101 Posts)

Can't go into what's inspired this post as I'll rant and out myself, but I'm just SICK of encountering people in my line of work (education) who are on high pay but are utterly incompetent. I don't mean in the sense that they need a bit of support - more downright lazy, negligent and dishonest.

An example - a previous boss of mine never quite seemed to be on top of things. She was a head teacher but always gave the impression of just not having much of a clue what was going on. She then left and her office was taken over by new Head. Virtually every neatly-labelled file on her shelves turned out to be empty or stuffed full of junk. Nothing was in place, including vital paper work. Lesson observations have vanished. Performance management paperwork missing. She was on 60k.

Really struggling with work at the moment. Anyone else know examples of massive incompetence that will cheer me up?

redexpat Fri 13-Jun-14 20:14:26

A teacher friend of mine told me that often bad teachers are promoted to get them out of the classroom. Might that explain it?

Also on the extra features of the office one of the questions is how has david brent kept his job? Merchant and Gervais andwer that there are people like him all over the bbc!

Trills Fri 13-Jun-14 20:16:03

There's a series of adverts on the tube now (for London school of business and finance).

They all say "beat Phil".

He's the official brand advocates. No, he can't explain what that means either.

He does press ups in the office, speaks only on buzzwords, and earns £10k more than you.

That kind of thing.

Mull Fri 13-Jun-14 20:17:59

Yep my new line manager! Does fuck all actual managing and pisses about on the internet all day. I've got so annoyed I've gone to his manager (my old manager) about it. Bet nothing changes sad

Yes. Happens a lot in finance. Smartarse talkers who take all the credit for you doing the donkey work <bitter>

Chottie Fri 13-Jun-14 20:19:08

Yep, education, earns 75 grand.

My. lips. are. sealed.

PenelopePitstops Fri 13-Jun-14 20:20:26

Education is full of them!

specialsubject Fri 13-Jun-14 20:22:19

most managers, I fear. I've had quite a few managers and those who were good and competent stick in my mind because most weren't!

I think it is called the Peter Principle - you promote people too incompetent to do the job higher up. Or is it Dilbert?

IceBeing Fri 13-Jun-14 20:25:19

I think I am one of my defence I am thinking of giving up my threshold for thinking I should be doing something different is significantly more stringent than my employers.

Teaching is full of them. My old head had a huge folder which we referred to as his "big book of magic".... It was full of bits of BLANK paper grin He would pull it out when he needed to look important/in charge.... But dropped it one day when someone was in his office and it was full of fuck all!! He was an inner London head... Must have been on 100k plus.

My current head of department is also useless and does bugger all. She hides around the school and no one can ever find her. Her whole day seems to revolve around not getting noticed/caught.

stripeyred Fri 13-Jun-14 20:27:47

My dad. He bumbles along, pleasing himself at the cost of others and walked away with 10k last month alone

Haggisfish Fri 13-Jun-14 20:28:36

Yep. Also in education. We recruited a new deputy head-my heart sank as I thought it was the one from my old school. Reassured, no, he had never worked at that school. It bloody was them! Came to us, did a shit job and had moved onto another highly paid job they will be paid a lot to fuck up. Again. Given good ref to get rid of them. Aaaargh! So frustrating.

Ohwhatfuckeryisthis Fri 13-Jun-14 20:28:47

I can think of one <helloooooo there Mr Gove> . Education is full of piss taking incompetents indeed.

Bloody HELL - genuinely wasn't expecting so many responses to involve education!
Stripeyred are there vacancies at your dad's place....?!

Floggingmolly Fri 13-Jun-14 20:31:57

Our local council is full of the bastards, sadly.

thenightsky Fri 13-Jun-14 20:33:03

So you'll be talking about the whole of NHS management then I guess.

CrotchMaven Fri 13-Jun-14 20:33:22

It's not just education. The quality of management in this country is pretty dire, all round. The one's who aren't are fucking marvellous, though.

AnneElliott Fri 13-Jun-14 20:33:35

It's not only education, the other areas of the public sector have them too. I can think of several people who have been promoted out of their team because they were so rubbishshock

sleeplessbunny Fri 13-Jun-14 20:33:46

this is the reason I left my last job. Not education though.

dementedma Fri 13-Jun-14 20:44:05

Local council. Full of useless jobsworths pushing paper around to kill time until they draw their pensions. Economic development business advisors,looking at you!

Nocomet Fri 13-Jun-14 20:44:35

Yes, I know someone in local government who is very unconvinced at their lords and masters.

stripeyred Fri 13-Jun-14 20:45:58

Jon I have no idea how my dad's colleagues put up with him. All are on considerably less and get treated appallingly (by him). I'm embarrassed to admit I'm related to him when introduced to someone he knows through work

I know a lot of NHS Commissioners who fall in to this category. I did know quite a lot of Children's Services senior management who fell in to this category but under new directorship they were all fired "retired early" or jumped before they were pushed.

My husband. He gets paid 75k+ for doing, umm,not much.

He is physically at work for long hours, but his pay is unjustified.

Id love our military/nurses/firefighters to be paid on these levels.

janesaysl Fri 13-Jun-14 20:54:47

We often moan about this at work and came to the conclusion that useless managers are fearless, too stupid to be scared of going for promotion and never doubt that they can do the job!

Not just education and public sector. I used to work for a private technology company. The guy who was brought in to 'manage' the team (I use the term 'manage' very loosely as he did no such thing) was so incompetent it was scary. He'd sit at his desk eating all day, take credit for everyone's work especially mine, but the minute something went wrong, it was all our fault. Got paid a fucking fortune too. He didn't like me much as I got so sick of his antics I questioned everything he asked me to do - a woman questioning his authority really pissed him off grin

bringonyourwreckingball Fri 13-Jun-14 20:56:12

Yep. Our marketing manager, paid more than me, full of shit. Head of comms, utterly useless, massively over promoted. Our organisation is so large it's easy to hide

CrotchMaven Fri 13-Jun-14 21:00:36

It's not just public sector.

Actually, there are a lot of people out there who are convinced (and are promoted on the back of) their own marvellousness when they are anything but. Sadly, the ones who really are great don't always shout so loudly. It's kind of a mark of their excellence. (I am currently working in a brilliant team, for a fantastic boss, and we are fighting against both our innate modesty and the incompetence of our loud but bullshitity competitors). And I have past experience (and that of family members) of quite eye-watering incompetence of managers.

I asked on another thread about managers. The op was asking about offering an outsourced service to root out duplication and lack of coordination between departments. I asked why management weren't already doing that (and what they were there for) and killed the thread.

CrotchMaven Fri 13-Jun-14 21:29:06

I killed this one too?

^^ points and stares.


CrotchMaven Fri 13-Jun-14 21:37:27

I'm dancer

ImperialBlether Fri 13-Jun-14 21:39:36

So many in education.

The Peter Principle is the principle that everyone gets promoted to their own level of incompetence (I think.)

BikeRunSki Fri 13-Jun-14 21:41:00

My boss's boss. Talks the talk, can not walk the walk. He has been moved sideways. I hope he keeps going til he falls off the edge.

ImperialBlether Fri 13-Jun-14 21:48:27


RickyDinkPanther Fri 13-Jun-14 22:02:07

But how the devil do they get these roles at these amazing levels of pay? Salaries like that just seem unattainable and v rare from where I'm sitting. (I'm looking for roles in the private sector - not sure if that makes any difference...)

onepotatotwopotato Fri 13-Jun-14 22:04:48

Oh lord. So many public sector managers who couldn't manage their way out of a paper bag.

Several of my former managers amongst them. One of them used to allocate work to a team member who didn't exist, except in his head.

CrotchMaven Fri 13-Jun-14 22:06:03

Bullshit & golf clubs.

And other people hiding their light under a bushell. Modesty is a virtue unless you are going for promotion.

thenightsky Fri 13-Jun-14 22:08:50

I got rung up by someone on twice my salary to ask for advice the other day. She actually said... 'I'm only a band 6 nurse, I shouldn't be expected to make decisions like this'. My reply was...'so you think its ok to ring a band 4 secretary to make them for you then?'

The Head of Mental Health Services, Head of Adult Mental Health Services and Associate Medical Director too, as well as one of the consultant Psychiatrists.

All utterly corrupt wankers.

quite a few senior roles seem to be about justifying their own existence in terms of their output i have found

rinky you don't have to actually do the work, you just have to convince the people who make decisions that you did it, or at least led/influenced other people doing it

thenightsky Fri 13-Jun-14 22:13:01

Madame We work in the same Mental Health (foundation) Trust? shock

Sicaq Fri 13-Jun-14 22:14:16

Quite a few tenured academics do bugger all and live off the results/publications produced by the fixed-term contract post docs. angry

RickyDinkPanther Fri 13-Jun-14 22:15:02

Willie sad This thread is so depressing. I'm bursting a gut doing exams to qualify in my field to try and progress. I have it all wrong. In fact a lack of integrity is actually all I need. (not that I could do it)

Iggly Fri 13-Jun-14 22:15:34

The higher up you go the less work you actually do. So you get out of touch and become shit.

RickyDinkPanther Fri 13-Jun-14 22:17:38

I've heard it said that 'shit floats'.

A bit of a generalisation, but I can see where it comes from.

NormHonal Fri 13-Jun-14 22:18:20

My DH grin.

To be fair, I think he just uses up all of his powers of organisation and competence at work. At home he's a bumbling ninny who couldn't can't organise a sock drawer. grin

I often question how he gets paid what he does in light of his daily inability to remember his keys in the morning, spell or punctuate.

Or it's all a big ruse so he gets out of housework hmm.

But he works bloody hard, very long very tough hours, so the OP doesn't apply in that regard.

I wonder if SamCam would say similar about Call-Me-Dave? wink

CrotchMaven Fri 13-Jun-14 22:19:01

Of course, what often happens is that managers serve those above them, rather than manage those below. Or even think about those without, which is what's most important.


Technically, I'm a manager, but it's very flat. And our focus is out, towards the client, so there is very little strife because we are all looking the same way.

SquattingNeville Fri 13-Jun-14 22:19:57

I know a teacher like that. Hates her job, hates the kids, puts in just enough work to say she's done the work. Creates drama wherever she goes.

CalamitouslyWrong Fri 13-Jun-14 22:20:19

<looks at every level of manager above her>

Yes. And they generally seem to get worse the higher up you go. The people at the top (on ludicrous salaries) are mind bogglingly useless. So much so, I really don't see why I can't eventually get somewhere up there too. I honestly couldn't be any worse that the shower running the place now. I'm pretty sure my 4 year old would be more effective at running a large organisation than they are.

CrotchMaven Fri 13-Jun-14 22:22:57

The thing is, those who are competent will not get anywhere within an organistation with idiots further up. Because you'll show them up. If you are in that kind of firm and have ambitions upwards, move.

The couple of managers I know who truly advocate for their team have not progressed as fast up the ladder as others

CalamitouslyWrong Fri 13-Jun-14 22:26:39

Also, these people don't actually seem to do anything. They appear to simply go to a lot of meeting the result of which is more meetings and nothing else. And they only really talk directly to the people just below them. If they have to come to talk to us lowly types, they do so in big groups where they stand with a very boring PowerPoint and drone on about their 'vision'.

Even within my department, and directly above me, there are several layers of management that genuinely serve no purpose. None of us seem to know what they actually do. Whatever it is, it clearly isn't of any value, as the place is a shambles and there is zero leadership despite all the so-called 'leadership roles'.

IwishIwasmoreorganised Fri 13-Jun-14 22:26:44

The head of our team doesn't inspire confidence, nor promote change even when the answers are handed to them on a plate.

I have even come across a clinical specialist therapist who works 2 bands higher than me who "doesn't do actual therapy". This was told to me by one of their colleagues. What on earth do they do to justify their salary then? confused

Fluffyears Fri 13-Jun-14 22:26:51

The whole House of Commons, do fuck all look like they give a fuck and get paid a fortune.......

ThisBitchIsResting Fri 13-Jun-14 22:30:32

Someone up thread posted that the further up you go, the less work you do. It's so, so true.

I am hideously and embarrassingly overpaid. But I am nice!

CrotchMaven Fri 13-Jun-14 22:38:33

Quite. I work in a construction related field and there are plenty of highly paid people who seem to not know the first thing about Building Regulations and architects who don't know much about BR nor planning regulations. Or even people within our own niche field who don't know what they are talking about.

And I previously worked in banking, insurance and recruitment. Equivalent scenarios applied. All managers of one sort or another.

That said, I also know some amazing teams with equally amazing managers. They stand out. Am I unusually exacting to think that should be the norm, rather than the exception? We have enough great people to make it so, don't we?

CrotchMaven Fri 13-Jun-14 22:40:06

Are you good, though, TheBitch?

PerpendicularVincenzo Fri 13-Jun-14 22:40:22

Several. Old boss on around 80k did nothing. After a year of working with her I have no clue what she did other than have tantrums, have one conference call a week and have screaming shouting matches with her boss, who was even worse.

Old board member of a company I worked at was on 108k plus bonus when I left. He spent his time giving away for products for free and smoking outside. He was moved sideways because he never sold anything, I honestly don't understand why they didn't just get rid of him.

thenightsky Fri 13-Jun-14 22:50:19

I'm thinking of moving into management after reading this thread. I've been coal face for too long and reckon I could out-manage em all now. grin

CrotchMaven Fri 13-Jun-14 22:50:36

And NormHonal, there's probably another thread in your post. (hint: he sees planning and organisation that is paid as very much more worthy than that which is not)

CrotchMaven Fri 13-Jun-14 22:51:47

I do think that there should be much more upward pressure on management, thenightsky.

Thenightsky you know too much though!

I need a new job. This thread has shown me how jaded I am with current role

RickyDinkPanther Fri 13-Jun-14 22:58:39

Makes you wonder what the economy would do if management was populated with competent people instead.

I'm with thenightsky. I've had enough being a 'worker ant' (as a former boss so eloquently described it to me hmm ).

WitchWay Fri 13-Jun-14 23:00:12

quietbat - I was just about to put NHS managers

grrr - most of them are useless & pointless

CrotchMaven Fri 13-Jun-14 23:00:37

Can I just say that, IME, finding the right smaller firm to work for might be right for some of you? I understand that salary and sector might preclude that, but when I think of my friends who are the most happy in their jobs, it is those that are in smaller firms that run away on that score. Or should I say, those in smaller firms with a boss that rocks.

I know that larger firms offer benefits that make sense at various stages of life and smaller firms just can't compete, but in terms of the topic of this thread, once you get the right fit then the world's your lobster.

Can you tell I've had a good week? :-)

thenightsky Fri 13-Jun-14 23:03:31

Yeah... lets start a quiet revolution. Up the workers!

RickyDinkPanther Fri 13-Jun-14 23:05:16

Agreed CrotchMaven. Been there. Loved it. Miss it. But it's much harder to get more senior positions in smaller firms because many of them aren't yet at a size that can justify them. A small firm that is growing is ideal, but it's not all that easy to find roles in companies like this. (Sorry, just letting my current frustrations out!)

That's a good point crotchmaven. One of my frustrations is that it's difficult for me to actually make meaningful decisions, because so much is decided on a company-wide level over which I have no influence. In a smaller company you can more easily see the results of your decisions (good or bad!) so you may feel both more accountable an more responsible for things that go right

wafflyversatile Fri 13-Jun-14 23:07:57

I think there are a few reasons for this.

People who go for promotions do so because they think that they will be good at the job. They may not be correct but if they have 'belief' in themselves they will possibly do well at interviews. (I would imagine that sociopaths and people with NPD give good interviews...)

Being good at doing X is not the same as being a good manager of other people doing X.

An old TU rep told me that when he was promoted to a management position in the civil service 30 years ago he had a total of 6 weeks training. 2 weeks of that was residential.... Seems like a lot and maybe it was excessive but most managers I know have never had any training.

wafflyversatile Fri 13-Jun-14 23:10:06

Also, although a lot of people on this thread are public services it's just as rife in the private sector. In business sociopathic behaviours are rewarded/encouraged by the nature/structure of the beast.

I'm private sector yes

Actually my company is pretty good at providing people management training at lower levels (middle management) and then having a reorg due to new senior management justifying their existence so all those newly trained managers have no direct reports any more

No idea about higher up, though

wafflyversatile Fri 13-Jun-14 23:15:20

I remember being told that the most stressful jobs are those with high responsibility but low decision making power.

Yes I think I've heard that - the middle managers with pressure from above and below

wafflyversatile Fri 13-Jun-14 23:20:00
fragolino Fri 13-Jun-14 23:20:40

oh god yes, everywhere all the time....

BikeRunSki Fri 13-Jun-14 23:20:42

I was referring to public sector in my previous post.

wafflyversatile Fri 13-Jun-14 23:22:03

Yep, but not just managers, just having whatever responsibility but no autonomy over how to do the job. I like working for smaller orgs because I have more autonomy over how I do my job.

CrotchMaven Fri 13-Jun-14 23:37:07

I totally agree that it's not easy to get the role I describe. And I thank my lucky stars every single day that I have one. I am not that well paid (I know that my skills should be rewarded at significantly higher levels), but I adore pretty much every minute of my day. I get to play with the train set, as I say to my boss. And because the structure is flat, so do my reports, pretty much.

williaminajetfighter Fri 13-Jun-14 23:49:31

I see this all the time but particularly in advertising (worked in this sector in my 20s). If you're good looking and chatty and can charm clients you can move up quickly. Who cares if you don't actually know what you're talking about when you can win them over with adjargonspeak!!

Having worked for a local authority I can tell you there are no worse managers. Trained in management by equally bad managers, dumb, wildly overpaid. Let's just say that local authorities don't recruit from Harvard so you have pretty mediocre people settling in and moving up and often they stay long enough to take advantage of gaps in staffing to move up to the point, as others have noted, of not being able to do the work.

Seen the same in Higher Education. Let's be honest -/ who really wants to go into HE admin? The managers are overpaid, half of them are job sharing or on wierd part time contracts and never around and ultimately they care about how they look from above not below.

Time and time again I'm always surprised that it's the managers who don't care about or support their staff and who have a stony disregard for anything but how they are perceived that get ahead. I keep thinking these managers will be 'found out' but time and again the narcissists, overconfident and the arrogants get promoted every time over the hard working, the considerate and the mucking-in managers. I've come to the conclusion that the latter are seen to be too 'soft' and not hard enough for senior management roles.. But the Idiots are bulletproof and can hack it at the top.

Viva la revolucion...

williaminajetfighter Fri 13-Jun-14 23:54:15

Just to add an example my last manager was focused on her status and her interest was on the staff/managers above her. So much so that she refused to talk or acknowledge any staff 2 grades below her. She was a 10. She would talk to a 9 but no one 8 or below. She would not say hello to them or even nod at them if she passed them by. They were invisible to her.

She was recently promoted from an 80k pa job to a 150k. Nice

LizLimone Sat 14-Jun-14 01:58:38

My previous job at a university was full of incompetents, mostly at the senior administrative level, my direct bosses, but also some professors who were coasting along on 10-years old research. My direct boss was terrible, on about 65k, did nothing all day but talk rubbish, read the news online and go to pointless meetings.

He was a white middle-aged man though so no-one questioned his competence. In the end he blamed me for any problems, kept his job while I ended up having to leave under a cloud! Lesson learned: never work for an idiot again.

I agree with a pp that British management is uniquely bad, especially in the public sector. There is a class element in Britain where naice middle class people get govt jobs on big salaries because they have the right accent or went to the right school etc. It is still there despite the wide boy Alan Sugar element in business.

UK public sector management jobs are largely welfare for the middle class, as I used to say in my UK public sector management days! Now I'm living in the US there are still bad managers of course and people promoted above their abilities but most people are grafters here, they put the hours in. I don't see the same sense if entitlement that I encountered among British managers, this idea that 'I'm a naice middle class person, I DESERVE 60k p.a. and a company car because I'm worth it!'.

Littleturkish Sat 14-Jun-14 06:47:59

I'm in teaching and a good friend of mine just had another promotion and I just have to scratch my head and wonder why.

She's lovely, but can't manage people, she has no original ideas, made some pretty dubious decisions impacting on the future of students and didn't intervene when someone (admittedly above her) was making some bad decisions.

I got a 'we want to keep you but keep you teaching promotion'. Poor teachers get performance managed out at my school. She would never have been promoted at my school.

Poor leadership at the top trickles down, maybe?

dementedma Sat 14-Jun-14 07:10:33

I am lucky to work in a small company with a wonderful boss and genuine leader. ( sick with worry that job is under threat now because of other issues). Boss gives us all freedom to do our jobs the way we want to (within reason) but is always there with a gentle nudge back in the right direction if I start veering too wildly off track. He has encouraged us all to be a lot more confident in making key decisions - " better a wrong decision than no decision" and supports us every step of the way. I have worked for corporate wankbadgers before and this guy is a breath of fresh air. I think I might have a teeny weeny crushette!

Iggly Sat 14-Jun-14 07:15:59

I don't think this is a public sector thing. Why would it be?

ManchesterAunt Sat 14-Jun-14 07:17:33

My husband's thick colleague - who actually reports to my DH. Recently found to be earning twice my DH's wages!!! shock

Time to insist on a payrise.....

FiveGoMadInDorset Sat 14-Jun-14 07:17:46

Yes, but the little people are revolting, watch this space.

splendide Sat 14-Jun-14 08:25:06

My old boss was a bit like this. Actually really lovely guy but didn't do a great deal of work. He used to just hang out in his office watching TV mostly. He's moved on and his replacement works very hard.

amimagic Sat 14-Jun-14 08:47:11

I work for the local authority and don't recognise this.

I 'm a first line manager and stupidly busy, my boss is more stupidly busy with really heavy stuff, and our head of service works very long hours and does his emails late into the night and genuinely seems very sharp and competent.

thenightsky Sat 14-Jun-14 09:51:23

Many years ago, when I was a little green student nurse who expressed suprise that a particularly nasty incompent nurse was given a lovely cushy management job, I was told by an older, wiser ward sister.... 'that's how it goes in the NHS, promoted up out of harm's way where she cannot hurt any patients'.

bigkidsdidit Sat 14-Jun-14 09:54:50

This is not a 'uniquely British problem'! Blimey. People are incompetent all over the world. I used to work in Spain and it was far, far worse there!

dingit Sat 14-Jun-14 09:58:48

Colleague of dhs. And conveniently spends much of the school holidays 'working from home'. Christened by us - nob head.

Ellisisland Sat 14-Jun-14 10:01:27

God yeah I work in HR and could weep when I see some of the wage packets some idiots earn. I have shouted it in meetings till I am blue in the face but being a people manager is a separate skillset and my company has a habit of thinking 'they do their job well let's promote them' ignoring the fact they have no people skills and then act surprised when their team implodes several months done the line! And breathe ....

catgirl1976 Sat 14-Jun-14 10:04:04

Several people at my work. On six figure salaries. Couldn't run a race. hmm

pastthemission Sat 14-Jun-14 10:33:14

There is a class element in Britain where naice middle class people get govt jobs on big salaries because they have the right accent or went to the right school etc. It is still there despite the wide boy Alan Sugar element in business.

Oh god yes LizLimone - I'm in charity sector/HE crossover and we are overrun by bad managers who band together with the laziest senior academic staff because they are all the "right sort" of baby boomers together, and all look after each other. Younger staff, particularly women, get the worst deal (as they are not wealthy enough to be the right sort and should have a husband to look after them really don't you know (one of my colleagues was actually told by her manager that it didn't matter that she was working for a pittance as she should have a husband who should "keep" her angry) Yet they are all massively incompetent. My ultimate boss is a man who has basically had a career in a rather naice bit of the civil service because his wife's father got him a job and he was a white man with the right accent in the 1960s. He is actually rather hard of understanding, has no people skills, is a massive sexist and terrible snob, falls asleep in meetings, never gets anything right, can't send an email without there being an error in it, can't remember anyone's name, manages to offend people wherever he goes, the list goes on - but he is paid 75k for trundling around the place creating messes that someone else has to clear up, and aided and abetted by a tranche of other senior managers who are only slightly less incompetent, but whose interest it is to keep everything exactly the same. <weeps with frustration>

AlerieVelaryon Sat 14-Jun-14 10:43:29

I must be careful what I say as I will out myself, but in a public sector organisation there is an associate director who knows so little about the technical aspects of the department he/she manages he/she cannot possibly be in a position to assure the board that all is well/not well.

it is very frustrating as an underling I am constantly telling him/her things (including stuff I have previously told him/her verbally or by email) to get the response "well I never knew that". He/she admitted to me that they often switch off in meetings or simply do not understand what is being discussed.

For the good of the people who use the service I do rescue things but is disturbing that this person gets away with simply not knowing/understanding.

Any advice on outing such persons will be gratefully accepted.

Iggly Sat 14-Jun-14 21:05:56

Alerie is this a central gov organisation?

AnnaLegovah Sat 14-Jun-14 21:15:22

I know and have known plenty. Some nice enough just a bit bumbling, others (like the current head honcho of where I work) are nasty, vile people always looking for someone, anyone to blame for their own mistakes. I wont say anything else, if I out myself it'll be the end of me.

When first in the job market a few years back I worked at a library. The man in charge was the most incompetent person I've ever seen. He was a few years from retirement so would spend the whole day asleep in his office. He honestly did nothing at all but was on about 50k. We never saw him except just before closing time. At 5:20pm every evening he would wander into the main area and stand reading the newspapers, just to make sure we didn't close up a second before half 5. Man was an arse of the highest order but as he was so close to retirement they let him get away with it.

AlerieVelaryon Sat 14-Jun-14 21:35:33

Sorry was off mumsnet all day. I do not want to say where I work (not central gov dept) Iggly This person has passed me over for promotion and given the role to someone with much less experience who has an awful sick record, but I know in my heart my feelings are not due to sour grapes.

Bathsheba Sat 14-Jun-14 21:38:12

I used to work in IT for some fairly important oil companies... Higher up you go, less use you become....

Chief Execs with no idea what their email address is. Their login password is a mystery to them.

Heads of drilling dept, with huge budgets.... Trying to fill in a form for a new member of staff.... Asking me if they might need a car park pass...

You can't even just argue that IT might not be their "thing" - it's impossible to work in the industry without a huge amount of very expensive cutting edge tech. Frankly the management have the IT skills that my Dad had just before he retired, and he had actively avoided IT as a metallurgist all his life.

Eminorsustained Sat 14-Jun-14 21:48:06

politicians ?

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