Mumsnet Talk

Review of a book on female "rebels" and the moral panic they cause for not conforming to what society expects of "ladies"

www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/bad-girls-a-history-of-unladylike-behaviour-8533215.html

You tell first !!!

Interesting article

Interesting article, shame the two links to articles underneath it are pictures of women for either an article on "Tart-lit" or cookery.

I once left the house without hat & gloves...........of course I had to move, change my name,and not darken my fathers doorstep ever again.....

I outraged my dad back in the day by drinking pints.

He was further perturbed when he saw me swigging Newcy Brown out of the bottle neck while wearing DMs.

These days he is slightly miffed by my tattoos, but he's getting used to me.

I told my DP that if we ever got married I would no way in hell take his surname...(partly because I cba to change my details but mostly on principle...if you do it, fine. But that isn't my cuppa).

I was surprised he'd assumed I would actually, cheeky

Oh and I cut my hair short, aged 14. I lived in a backwater town in norfolk at the time so everyone thought I was clearly a raging lesbian

I talk openly about my vagina and mooncup on Facebook. I suspect I am a brazen hussy, offending those with delicate sensibilities with my uncouth vocabulary.

to be fair mooncup's are amazing usererror , so why not

I think I've been deleted on FB for the Mooncup link to Love your Vagina song

Not me, but my Mum used to go on a weekend away with female friends mostly as my Dad wasn't interested in cultural stuff. My Grandad wouldn't speak to her for 6 months as she went away to Paris without my Dad

Oh yes, drinking pints. I am regularly get faces for that. My arguement is it saves me having to go to the bar every 5 minutes <<hic>>

I go to football matches without DH and meet a bunch of blokes beforehand in the pub for a pint. Admittedly not so often since the DCs came along.

I'm a biker, have an HGV licence and am only 5ft 1. It gives me great kudos with kids in school (esp boys) and it gives us something to talk about other than work.

I am a geek, love understanding technology. Love surprising male friends by out-geeking them or being able to hold a decent conversation about technology.

I'm the kinda female rebel that my mum says would've been burned at the stake, branded with an A and disowned by all if I'd been born earlier this century.

And now I'm raising my dd to be an even better rebel who made me so proud when at parents evening the general teacher consensus was my dd has v strong opinions and she's not afraid to share them.

I had a lot of sex when I was younger and double barrelled my name as a compromise to giving mine up when I got married.

I've had a one night stand because I wanted to and I have carried out 99% of the DIY work in my flat including plastering and tiling

Sleep with people if I fancy it (when I'm single), walk in an unladylike fashion, drink pints, used to wear baggy blokes clothes a lot, I read comics, am an internet nerd, fart loudly (not in public)

@ walk in an unladylike fashion MadamFolly, please expand...

madamefolly - that made me think of the Monty Python 'ministry of silly walks' sketch. I might adopt one myself for relief of slight boredom

the PILs are confused that I have no desire to be a SAHM or reduce my hours

"borninastormSat 16-Mar-13 12:29:59

I'm the kinda female rebel that my mum says would've been burned at the stake, branded with an A and disowned by all if I'd been born earlier this century."

I don't think that even back on 2002 we burned witches at the stake. In fact I was there and I'm sure

(TBH I'm fairly sure they didn't do it at any point in the 20C either)

my mum can't seem to understand that I never changed my name when I got married, she still tries to call me by DH's name , we have been married almost 23 years. i get the face when she sees my tattoo and when i order a pint.

Yy to all the Newkie drinking, unladylike clothes and walking with my hands in my pocket. And to the keeping my own name on marriage etc.
But the biggest outrage was walking at a funeral. Yes, I refused to go in the car with the ladies and walked behind the coffin with the men at my Granny's funeral. My aunt was worried the Western Mail would report it

Wearing a running vest without shaving my armpits caused consternation once. Answer to "Christ you look like fucking Action Man" had to be "Better than looking like fucking Barbie"

Oh, and smoking in the street when I was younger. Apparently it was incredibly common and unladylike and I should not do it in my home town for fear I would be Judged. Uni town was ok, no one related to me would see me there.

I can't believe I've never heard the love your vagina song. Utterly brilliant!

Many things, oh so many!

Lots of young free and single sex.

Frank and open discussions in public re:
moon cups,
breast feeding,
labour and birth,
sex from a womens perspective,
lecturing young boys about condoms/ consent ( or rather holding off having sex with a lass way past when she would 'let' you to the point where her nails are digging so hard into you your arse will bleed if you don't and how much more fun that would be! )
Performances of the vagina monologues ( including one done by men in dresses!)
Never wearing make up
Shaving sections of my hair.
Aggressively challenging idle come ons by sleazy pricks
Only having one pair of shoes (combat boots!)
Carrying a rucksack instead of a handbag.
Giving up a cushy flat to live in the woods

But I would never drink a pint! Bleurgh!

Not only did I go to the grave at my dad's funeral, I took a cord.

I'm his only child - who else but me should be doing it?

Oh and not shaving legs or arm pits in seven years and not hiding the above!
Having a slight wobble on that as 13 mo is invited to a pool party in a couple of weeks and none of the women going will get that at all!

WHere to start? Liking heavy metal/punk rather than disco, pints, big boots, farting, swearing, making the first move when I fancied a man, always insisting I wouldn't marry, loads of different sexual partners, being quite physically strong (when I used to see bands and flirt with band members, I would offer to help carry the amp to the van etc), not wearing make up if I don't feel like it, shaving my head at least down to a no2 crop, liking gross horror films and fiction, reading 2000AD in the 80s...

Now I like steam trains and heritage railways, admittedly this is partly because DS is mad about anything rail-related, but have rediscovered a childhood fondness for the joys of steam and finding little train tracks at a tourist attraction and hunting for the model train...

Wore my Dad's old overcoat when I was 16 and needed a new one but we couldn't afford it - grandad shirts were "in" at the time but apparently Dad coats didn't cut it.

Drank pints, aggressively so. REFUSED to accept half pints. Also drank neat whisky shots. And drank Guinness. But not lager (tis camel piss).

Wore tracksuit and trainers almost every day of my all-girl 6th form; but I was in the rowing club.
Oh yes, I was in the rowing club, another one.

Offended many by my "blue" language whilst in the coxing seat.

Rode a bike with a crossbar because it was easier to carry over my shoulder should I need to (getting on and off trains, over footbridges etc.)
Carried a bike on my shoulder when I needed to.

Did weight-training for the rowing.

Almost never curled, blow dried, hot tonged, ironed or otherwise mugged my hair with implements as a teen/young 20 - now, NEVER do it. Apart from combing it. Most days.

Refusing to conform to the idea that the older you get, the shorter your hair should be (no idea where this comes from but stuff it, I like having long hair and plan to keep it!)

Able to do most DIY around the house; although I haven't tried bricklaying yet.

I don't use beauty products. Occasional make up, mostly eyes and lips - but I don't cleanse, tone or moisturise as they bugger up my skin. Honestly. I've saved thousands over the years!

Oh, I went to a wedding in a dress and bare legs once, got a very stern telling of from DM for not wearing tights.

Militant name retainer (as it was called on another thread recently) too.

I got reported to security at twickenham because my skirt got caught in my bag and about an eighth of my arse cheek was visible. With big black pants and black opaques on.

Thumb I think you may be my doppelganger! I coxed a bit, wore my dad's overcoat, insisted on a crossbar etc.

Lunatic - - but did you insist on drinking pints?

I once went to Wimbledon in this shirt (it was early 80's) and got told off by a security guard, they let me in though

I swore in an email to the entire PCC.

i had previously sworn to the vicar in a PCC meeting

(first one was bloody, the latter was shit)

Insisting dh be with me at births of dc much to my parents horror as apparently this is wrong.

Dh frequently cooks, cleans, manages dc alone and again, this is wrong as its woman's work. Dad sniffed he was a big girl.

Wearing trousers, not wearing heels at every opportunity, living alone in London. And having a double bed when I was single- no decent woman does
that either.

Leaving a Ltr as he was cheating. This was actually my fault for not providing hot dinners, and serving up pizza every now and then. You have to work at it to stop men looking elsewhere, they said. What's the world coming too? No one will want you, as you have a PAST!! Like a divorced woman...

I am very pleased society has moved on. It must have been hell.

Wow lavender !!
Bet you're glad you LTB sounds like you have a fab catch now

Thumb yes I did. Except when eschewing the glass altogether for a Newkie bottle. Only soft drinks should be served in half glasses.

I do these days have hair straighteners simply because I have a bob. I had to get my hair cut because ds was pulling it out in handfuls! I used to cut my own hair in my teens. Never really do makeup either.

And Diy too. I rewired my house once. Won't do plumbing but can lay bricks

I wore my DDad's 70s suits to sixthform and when at university I shaved my head with beard trimmers.
I didn't have any flowers at my wedding or grow my hair so it could be put up, I did bleach the shit out of it though so it matched my dress (none of this impressed the Nans).

Nowadays I have hair almost to my waist that is my own undyed mousey colour which includes a fair bit of grey. I wear chunky steel toecapped boots and clothes that I like.

I have just installed a grey water toilet/sink combo myself of which I'm very proud.

My DS has long ladylike hair my two DDs do not. We all wear footwear that is marketed towards males there is not much pink about. My Nan would be horrified if she could see me now, but probably not surprised as I am very like my DM

I can easily change car tyres, plane down and hang doors, repair broken parts in the computer. I have loads of power tools which I can and do use. I never wear make up. I can reverse my car at speed and have worked on the line in abbatoirs (excellent for lovely forearms). I can also dig holes for concrete posts. Basically, I am happy to do whatever. No gender stereotypes for me.

I do like shiny pretty things and glitter though, and I am not at all butch (not that there is anything wrong with that).

I didn't realise there were extra points for having a SAHD DH has done all the cooking cleaning and I daytime childcare in our house. Perhaps these extra points will make up for my lack of drinking pints?

I co habit rather than marry, if we do marry I'm not going to wear a white frock. Used to threaten I'd wear DMs to get married in.
I occasionally go to gigs on my own and I've crowd surfed.
I go to football matches, I play sport, I run and I don't care if I get sweaty.

But I wear dresses and skirts, straighten my hair and wear make up.

I once caused a lady in her 60s to draw her skirts away from me in a+e.

'Twas a Saturday night, and about a month earlier I'd (unknowingly) fractured a bone in my ankle and sprained both ankles at a dodgy language school. Having spent 2 days in a car with my legs dangling, they were extremely swollen from knee to ankle, so I went to a+e.

I was plonked in a wheelchair, and had been kicked out of the way by a bad-tempered paramedic. I had my head on dh's shoulder, and sighing muttered either "this bleeding pain's driving me round the fucking twist" or "this fucking pain's driving me round the bleeding twise"

I'd mistakenly - due to the amount of pain I was in - forgotten I wasn't in France, and so thought no-one would have understood. I was wrong Had I apologised, it would have only made things worse, so I said nowt.

Had I been in France, and said 'ce putain douleur me rende dingue' I'd have had a sympathetic look. Weird what a difference 22 miles of water makes My dp says 'putain' every other word - when he's not saying 'foutu'.

I can do basic car maintenance (more so than DH). DFIL did a double take recently when he told me the radiator in our spare room needed bleeding and I said I'd do it later, I think he had been expecting me to ask him to do it and not know where the key was (DMIL doesn't know how to operate their central heating timer let alone bleed a rad).

Should be twist not twise, and it's my 'gp' that says 'putain' every other word during surgery appointments. That's when he's not talking about curry burning his arse.

Apparently I was guilty of "the height of bad manners" when on a long coach trip with my mother. We had been off the coach and it was windy so I brushed my hair when we got back on the coach, she was mortified that I would do that in public.

That and drinking pints in pubs in the 1980s.

Didn't/don't wear make up unless on the odd occasion I just fancied it.
Didn't/don't smile all that much.
Dared to reject the advances of any boys in school (branded a lesbian, which amused me greatly).
Was a goth.
I love DIY jobs.
Not shaving or plucking my eyebrows.
Never was bothered about nudity.

Hmmmm I can drive a tractor, change its tyres and service it's engine
I can also run a hop picking machine including the mechanical stuff..
I drink beer and cider by the pint - makes sense as the more gets drunk the more they buy from our farm to make them...
I am the chairman of a charity.. The constitution states chairman and that is what I get called... I think I was a shock to all of them.....
I swear, more than my dad... Tho never in front of my dd
I eat in my car

Sweep the chimney,clear out drains,build a haystack,drive a tractor and trailer,do a 'man's job',worked on a shoot,built a poly tunnel.Whenever we are towing it is always me who drives,tiled a kitchen,built a patio [when I was 14].

I am about to go shepherding once I've drunk my tea.

I gave up a pharmacy job for an engineering one...and get to wear lovely orange fire-retardant overalls and steel-toecap boots.

I don't wear make up, have cropped hair, swear like a trooper, can whistle loudly and in tune, used to drink pints, and can wallpaper/paint well enough to teach my dh.

Still get the from dh's family

Targ, yes, I'm glad I left the day I found out! Twat came crawling back offering marriage! Am proud so say I bellowed " what! Do I look stupid? Do you think I want more of the same?" So he went back to the ow lucky her , eh?

Tg, that reminds me if driving my mil to town and being cut up by another driver. I let loose a few putain myself and a few others! - to the sharp intake of breath by my mil who I had forgotten was French she did laugh after though.

Hurrah for velve

Some one else that doesn't shave!

I used to drink pints of lager wear DMs and go on CND and ANTIPOLL tax marches I once shouted at a policeman and told a Baliff to fuck off when he came to collect my belongings when I hadnt paid the poll tax , my dad thought I was a lesbian ( no offence to lesbians meant) I wouldnt say boo to a goose now, although I always stand up for what I beleive in

shaving lady parts only started with the flappers though, so that doesn't count.
I shave my armpits when they get itchy and sticky, which is when they,re quite hairy, maybe every 5-6 weeks. didn't shave them atall while I was pregnant.
never shave my legs, but I have immac'ed a few times (maaybe once a year)
never been near my underbeneathsies

I also used to be a militant disability rights activist still am just a wee bit quieter about it

I haven't worn a pair of heels since I was 18. I am now 49.

I wear DM boots. Including to work when I've worked on glossy mags.

I went on the rageagainst racism march when I was 16. not sure how it happened, but it was when my dad was big on socialism.

I had a boyfriend when I was 14 and I got engaged at 17. I know it doesn't sound much, but it my dad and brothers were so upset they nearly sent me abroad. (And they broke DH's nose).

Both My dds have been on a 'women against violence' white ribbon march <proud>

Oh god anna your poor husband

Uff, don't encourage him, it's been 26 years and he still pretends it's hurting

it's been 26 years and he still pretends it's hurting

TUT THAT IS JUST MILKING IT jeez ,

Ahh I forgot to mention hair removal! I have very fine blonde body hair so wasn't going to bother at all - and didn't shave my legs ever until the hairs around my ankles went curly like my brothers. Then I gave in and started to get rid.

Have never had a bikini wax of any kind and never intend to.

Have nothing pierced, not even ears. (Weirdness about metal-through-flesh - makes me shudder)

Love steam trains, planes, automobiles etc. (Blame Dad, a transport enthusiast).

Actually used to know a lot about politics and argue with various people about it. Not any more - hate them all now [disillusioned]

The one time I wore makeup with any frequency was I wore the same lipstick and nail varnish as my then boyfriend: this was seen as perfectly standard with my university crowd, but Definitely Not The Done Thing back home. The fact that I actually talked to him rather than just simpering adoringly on his arm was probably considered equally shocking.

At 16ish I had a reputation for approaching lads at parties and asking them their opinion on what was going on in the world. I was told that 'you shouldn't do that because they don't fancy you if they think you're interested in the news and stuff: you just smile and let them do the talking'.
Not many girls approved of my Goth/indie/punk/drum and bass 'blokey' musical taste either.

And of course I drink pints, play cricket, can DJ, can swear colourfully in several languages, and exercise to the point of getting sweaty and disshevelled rather than to the point just before my makeup might run.

DD likes skateboards. I'm very proud - partly as I always wanted to be a good skateboarder but could never balance on the things!

Can shoot straight, have dispatched sick hens and rabbits with hands when necessary, punch hard, drink pints when in mood, have only one pair of heels, have large yet discreet tattoo, talked very publicly about rape on national tv, slept with men and wonen for fun without regrets, can remove beer bottle tops with teeth, expert at unblocking loos, thrashed Kelvin McKenzie in public debate, frightened two Home Secretaries and was accused of unladylike deportment and rank discourtesy frequently when at school. Also, I have a tendency to slouch.

[Quote]Uff, don't encourage him, it's been 26 years and he still pretends it's hurting[/quote]

It's time to LTB!.

Decorated my previous flat(did all the painting and carpets and wall paper whilst oh of the time was banned from coming anywhere near it!)
Never iron/wash/mend his clothes though he requested.
Refused to cook his meals for 5+ years when he dared criticise my cooking.
Clean the house on my terms and don't give a hoot about his cleaning ocd.
He said if I was in the Middle East,I'd probably be dead as I apparently don't have the traits of a proper woman.

Grabbed a guy by his ponytail as he tried to leave a club and stuck my tongue down his throat. He didn't mind and we had a fun 24 hours afterwards.

I don't realise just how un 'girly' I am until someone assumes something.

Can I borrow your hair dryer
Er, I don't have one.

Ditto nail varnish remover.

Ditto iron.

I also wear DMs, New Rocks, and have a motorbike licence.

Used to smoke roll ups and had a very unladylike tobacco tin
Shaved my head at 18