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Ceasefire - Israel/Gaza

(39 Posts)
TheSarcasticFringehead Fri 08-Aug-14 01:29:04

Hope it lasts, but doubtful with the demands from Hamas. Which Israel won't agree to. And Hamas know that. Can anyone explain the situation to me a bit as I get the basic idea, but why are Hamas asking that when they know they won't get it, unless they want to have a reason to go back on the ceasefire?

TheSarcasticFringehead Fri 08-Aug-14 01:31:39

Also, it runs out 5am, so why 72hrs not 48hrs or 84hrs or 96hrs? <clueless>

ttangerine Fri 08-Aug-14 04:55:48

Because Hamas don't want peace. The Israelis have already left, pulled their troops out. Hamas want another excuse to try to kill some more Israelis. They are jihadis.

Unfortunately for them, the Israelis have unilaterally pulled out. Making it pretty bloody clear who is warmongering. (Clue: even Hamas will have difficulty this time spinning that it's the Israelis.)

MammaTJ Fri 08-Aug-14 05:24:58

Hamas had (again) broken the ceasefire this time before it was over.

PossumPoo Fri 08-Aug-14 07:46:19

It probably won't last until Israel give back at least some land and control to Palestine.

SuperConfused Fri 08-Aug-14 09:19:50

To clarify: this isn't a cynical attempt to restart fighting, people really are hoping this suffering can be leveraged to end the blockade.

To put it into context, for seven years people have been effectively held hostage. Nobody thinks the blockade is legal: not the us, not the uk. It prevents the import of agricultural supplies, medicines- anything considered 'dual use', I.e. Could potentially be used to make a weapon the Israelis don't let in. As you'll have seen from the things airports get concerned about, pretty much anything can be used to make weaponry these days. For a few years, things were getting through tunnels from Egypt but now that's stopped, people literally don't have enough food, fuel, basic supplies. There has been a water shortage for years before this. Farm land is often in the 'buffer zone' so farmers risk getting shot working in their fields.

I'm no fan of Hamas, but there is no reason for Israel to carry on the blockade, and nothing but shame for the international community who have let it go on this long.

TheSarcasticFringehead Fri 08-Aug-14 09:25:37

But surely lifting the blockade will endanger the Israelis?

SuperConfused Fri 08-Aug-14 09:33:18

Why would it? There is no blockade on the West Bank. There are check points. There is no valid reason why allowing the import of food and medicine would harm anyone, letting fisherman go out into the sea. The blockade was imposed in punishment after gaza voted in Hamas. It directly followed an election result, not a security breach.

It is difficult to put into words how abhorrent it is. When you go to the erez crossing into gaza, on one side you can see the Palestinians with permits lining up. It's people on stretchers,usually women and children. Getting out for non-medical reasons, and even for medical reasons if you're male between 18-40 is nearly impossible. There are families who haven't seen loved ones in the West Bank for seven years.

Again, the majority of people in gaza are under 18. They have done nothing to bring this suffering on themselves.

SuperConfused Fri 08-Aug-14 09:36:34

This is a 2012 piece from oxfam detailing some of the suffering imposed by the blockade

PossumPoo Fri 08-Aug-14 09:38:02

And surely not lifting it endangers Palestinians?

This blockade is nothing more than Israel having control. It is shameful the rest of the world isn't doing more.

babbas Fri 08-Aug-14 09:54:45

Israel are illegally caging a nation who are begging for release. The blockade is deemed illegal by international law. Israel cannot cage a nation because it feels threatened by it or because subjugation of the nation suits it's interests.

Hamas are quite rightly demanded equality and freedom for its people. Why is is so hard for Israel to abide by international law and luge a blockade which has kept palestine on the absolute of humanitarian crisis?

babbas Fri 08-Aug-14 09:55:29

Brink of humanitarian crisis.

PossumPoo Fri 08-Aug-14 10:35:28

So Sarcastic reading these further posts, what do you think - is it fair that Israel agree to a cease fire but still hold another nation hostage, albiet without actually killing anyone this time?

I'm sorry but this situation actually makes my blood boil and I usually have to step away from these threads as I just can't understand why the world is not doing more?!

The only people in my newsfeed on FB who seem outraged by this is my Irish and Scottish friends. I'm ashamed to say that not one of my Aussie friends have said ANYTHING about this.

I am wondering what Israel hve over the world that allows this shit situation to continue?

MaidOfStars Fri 08-Aug-14 11:02:38

There are many reasons why Israel are being supported by 'the West' in this. Some of those reasons are: we are friends; we made Israel; we need an ally in the region; Israel is economically/academically important on a global level; Holocaust guilt; support for a ME country with democracy/proper legal systems/etc, which we want to promote; lots out for now.

MaidOfStars Fri 08-Aug-14 11:03:42

superconfused Agree with all you've said.

specialsubject Fri 08-Aug-14 12:01:57

There is fault on both sides, but noting that it has been possible to import supplies to Gaza all along. Unfortunately ordnance takes priority.

it seems that Hamas fired first today.

the Israeli children have also done nothing to bring this on themselves. Nor have most of the civilians on both sides.

babbas Fri 08-Aug-14 12:50:49

It's disingenuous to state there is fault on both sides.

One side are one of the largest and we'll equipped army in the world, the other have no army at all. One is an oppressor the other the oppressed. One side has caged the weaker side. One side ensures the other is only allowed 1200 calories per person per day such is the extent of the siege. One side breaches internationally law regularly and has been caught using experimental weapons and phosphorus gas on children. One side had nearly 2000 deaths last month. The other 65.

Whilst hamas are unpleasant too, the fault here lies as sickly with Israel. What gives it the right to blockage 1.5 million people into an open air prison then bomb it every 2 to 3 years?

specialsubject Fri 08-Aug-14 12:57:31

no, it is not disingenuous. It is true.

comparing death numbers is not relevant. Israelis are not dying in such numbers because they have better defences after decades of continuous attack. Their children are still being traumatised.

what gives Hamas the right to shoot rather than negotiate? What gives the right for something like this?

normalishdude Fri 08-Aug-14 12:59:00

in simplistic terms it's because the arseholes in charge on either side (including Israel's allies) aren't the ones getting bombed.

babbas Fri 08-Aug-14 13:04:43

Death numbers are highly relevant as they highlight the absolute discrepancies of power, brutality and control of israel.

Israel, if it is to expect security for itself, must allow freedom and equality to palestine. You simply cannot cage a whole nation because you want to stay safe. It's barbaric.

I can post links to support my argument but there is a thread about this issue already active with lots and lots of links relating to both sides of the argument.

In answer to the op, palestine wants basic human rights, freedom and equality. What's not reasonable about this?

PossumPoo Fri 08-Aug-14 13:10:49

Israelis are not dying in such numbers because they have better defences after decades of continuous attack.

What an utter stupid thing to say - they are not dying because the West has built them better defences, and paid for it. If that statement were true then Palestine would also have good defences as they've had the shit bombed out of them for a lot longer hmm

Hamas are quite frankly no more fucking evil than Israel.

somewheresafe Fri 08-Aug-14 13:13:19

I read today that the first rocket was fired out of Gaza 34 years after occupation.

Resistance is permitted under international law. Occupation is not.

ttangerine Fri 08-Aug-14 15:02:11

Gaza hasn't been occupied for nearly a decade. So a bit irrelevant.

Firing rockets deliberately at civilian targets as Hamas does is absolutely contrary to international law.

cleanmean Fri 08-Aug-14 15:06:45

Palestinians have been exiled for many decades. Settlers were removed around 2005 but there has been a crippling siege which has denied the palestinians any freedom.of movement and a strict 1200 calorie controlled food intake per person amongst other basic human rights.

You might to check your facts there ttangerine. In fact since israel withdrew settlers from homes they stole, israel has ensured that palestine is kept on the 'brink of humanitarian and economic collapse' as revealed in documents leaked by Wikileaks this week.

MaidOfStars Fri 08-Aug-14 15:09:42

Hamas firing rockets at civilian targets is illegal.
Israel striking civilian targets is illegal.
Israeli control of Palestinian lands is illegal.

All illegal activities must stop.

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