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Anyone good with annual leave calculations?

(30 Posts)
Frozenatchristmas Fri 31-Jan-14 11:41:17

At work we are currently on short hours.

Standard working week was 35 hours (5 days a week) but it was changed to 28 hours a week (4 days a week). Our annual leave was 20 days but pro-rata to 16 while working 4 days a week.

I still work 28 hours a week but now over 5 days so 9-3 4 days and 9-5 one day.

I have just put in some annual leave and the person who is looking after annual leave at the moment (not the usual person) has said I am still only entitled to 16 days for the year but I say I am entitled to 5 because I work 5 days.

Can anyone help? Surely I shouldn't have to take more annual leave to cover having a week off, ie if I want a week off I need to take 5 days out of 16 so effectively I really only have just over 3 weeks annual leave? Hope that makes sense.

MrsBettany Fri 31-Jan-14 11:45:08

You are both right - sort of. You are entitled to 20 of your short days which equals the same no. of hours as 16 full time days. Generally easiest to work out hours entitled I when you are part time.

flowery Fri 31-Jan-14 11:45:38

You are right they are wrong.

The statutory minimum holiday entitlement is 5.6 weeks. So for anyone who works 5 days a week, that is 28 days (which can, and presumably at your workplace does, include bank holidays). If this person thinks you should only get 16 days they would be breaking the law.

CaptainGrinch Fri 31-Jan-14 11:45:48

16 days would be 3 weeks and 1 day leave, you wouldn't automatically get 4 weeks leave again just because you're working 5 days a week.

It'll be worked out on hours....

CaptainGrinch Fri 31-Jan-14 11:46:31

16 days Pro Rata - she's not working 35 hours per week..

MrsBettany Fri 31-Jan-14 11:47:10

Sorry should say - hours entitled to rather than days entitled to when you are part time.

flowery Fri 31-Jan-14 11:48:18

Doesn't sound like it's being worked out in hours to me.

CuthbertDibble Fri 31-Jan-14 11:48:25

You need to break it down to hours as opposed to days.

You are entitled to 16 x 7 hour holiday days. Some of your shifts aren't a full 7 hour day so you don't need to use a full 7 hour holiday day to cover it, you just use part of it.

littlemrssleepy Fri 31-Jan-14 11:48:29

Part time workers need to work out their annual leave in hours. I work done 8.5 hour days, some 5 hour days. It can only be done in hours.

Spherical Fri 31-Jan-14 11:49:00

I agree with MrsBettany that it's easiest to work out on number of hours basis. You need to work out the proportion of the year you worked 35 hrs per week and the the proportion during which you worked 28hrs per week. I assume you get bank/public holidays on top of the 'annual' leave you have set out above?

Spherical Fri 31-Jan-14 11:50:43

sorry, xposted with lots of people. I agree with everyone who said it should be calculated on hourly basis.

Frozenatchristmas Fri 31-Jan-14 11:53:15

Ah right so I need to do my annual leave based in hours rather than days off.

So my annual leave is therefore

16 x 7 hours = 112 hours

And then take off every hour I need so, for instance I need 10th March off which is a 9-3 day (well, it is really 9-2.50 pm with 50 minutes for lunch) so that is 5 hours off my 112 hours. Is that right?

CuthbertDibble Fri 31-Jan-14 12:00:13

Yes, that's right smile

littlemrssleepy Fri 31-Jan-14 12:05:37

Do be aware about bank holidays as well. I don't work Wednesdays and then only 5 hours on a Thursday. The other 3 days I work 8.5 hours. A standard working day at mine is 7.5 hours. So over Christmas and new year where the bank holidays were weds and thurs I would have lossed out. Likewise I would get an extra hour on Good Friday or bh Mondays, which I'm not entitled to. So, I adds up my (pro rata) annual leave and bank holiday entitlement (in hours) and then record whatever leave I take - be it bh or al - again in hours.

GrandadGrumps Fri 31-Jan-14 12:05:47

No, it's not 16 x 7 hours, it's 5.6 x 28 hours. Less any hours you're paid for days off on bank holidays.

flowery Fri 31-Jan-14 12:41:39

What GrandadGrumps said. Regardless of whether it should or shouldn't be done in hours, it seems your employer is not doing it in hours, even though posters seem to be assuming that is the case. Your annual entitlement is not 16x7 hours, so 16 was always going to be wrong. It's 5.6x28=157 hours.

GrandadGrumps Fri 31-Jan-14 13:11:30

Looking at it the other way, you're entitled to 28 days (5 days a week x 5.6) at 5.6 hours per day (28 hours over 5 days). Take 8 days off for bank holidays and that's 20 days at 5.6 hours per day.

The simple answer to the original question is that if you're working 5 days a week you're still entitled to 20 days plus (8) normal bank holidays. Whether the 16 days (plus BH) was fair when you were working 4 days a week depends on how many bank holidays fell on your normal working days and whether you were paid for them.

There's a calculation issue depending on how many 4 day weeks and how many 5 day weeks you've worked in the year (or maybe it's a shorter reference period than a year, I don't know).

CuthbertDibble Fri 31-Jan-14 13:28:07

I think there's a danger of over-complicating things here. Because the OP works different length shifts she has to use the hours basis to calculate holiday. Ignoring the bank holidays (because if she works a shift every day, Mon-Fri, I'll assume she gets these), the OP should get 112 hours holiday. Either 16x7 or 20x5.6, both give you 112 hours.

If the OP took 20 days holiday and each day she took was the day of her longer shift, her 8 hour day, then she would be taking too much holiday. If she took all 20 days from her shorter working days then she would not be taking enough.

The reason the OP needs to use hours to calculate her holiday is because of the different lengths of her working days.

Frozenatchristmas Fri 31-Jan-14 16:33:06

Ok, so I am right with the 112 days I had put down on my sheet. We are still waiting to hear what the public holidays for the year are. I keep our office open so with the exception of Christmas and new year so I need to factor those in when announced but I think I have worked it out.

God, it's complicated! Thanks everyone for your help.

GrandadGrumps Fri 31-Jan-14 16:36:42

Hours not days, and if you work bank holidays then no, you're not right.

NomDeClavier Fri 31-Jan-14 16:38:48

You can't assume BHs though. They still count in the number of hours of holiday. There must be a system which says what hours they would be so it's fair though.

Frozenatchristmas Fri 31-Jan-14 17:32:24

Yes, sorry that should be hours.

Last years bank holidays were

Christmas Day and Boxing Day
New Year's Day and 2nd January
Good Friday and Easter Monday
Local day in July - Monday
Local day in October - Monday.

I have no reason to doubt they will be different this year.

Christmas and new year holidays we are closed but the other 4 I come in. These are on my shorter days so I need to add the time in when they are confirmed by the partners for definite.

GrandadGrumps Fri 31-Jan-14 17:38:50

If you mean that you get paid for those 8 days but you don't work on them then the 112 hours is correct.

GrandadGrumps Fri 31-Jan-14 17:39:22

Sorry, I misread the final paragraph.

Frozenatchristmas Fri 31-Jan-14 17:41:35

We get paid for our public holidays.

I come into the office on those 4 days but just take the time off at another date.

The 4 Christmas ones the office is completely closed.

Thanks grandad. You are being really helpful.

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