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## Would you mind telling me about your Year 1 child's number skills? Worried.

(86 Posts)
AwfulMaureen Fri 31-Jan-14 10:02:42

Ok...I just want to know what other year 1 DC can and can't do regarding number work. I KNOW it's not good to compare but I feel like I need a realistic idea of where we are with DD.

She's in year one...she's not the youngest and not the oldest but right in the middle.

Her teacher told me she needs extra help as she's not up to scratch...so for the last couple of days I've worked a lot with her and at the start of it, she could not recognise and order numbers 1 -20 but now she can, she can write them too...she can do simple addition...1 + 1 and 1+2 etc and if you give her something a bit bigger like 10+4 she can do it with counters or fingers.

She had a light bulb moment yesterday too and She can now write any number from 1-100 but couldn't order them I don't think..if I say "98" for example then she writes it down...same with any other two figured number....she loves playing that game for some reason!

Anyway...can you tell me...how far behind is she? She seems to have grasped a lot with just a couple of days of game playing and intensive counting which luckily she seems to love. I want to know what your year 1 child can do so that I can aim for something...thank you!

AwfulMaureen Fri 31-Jan-14 22:28:07

Tonight we've done some homework which was "Doubles" basically adding 1 + 1 then 2+2 then 3+3 until we get to 5...the notes said to refer to it as doubling or adding or "two lots of x makes x"

Why call it doubling? Doesn't it confuse things? It bloody confused me....I had to read it about 5 times! Anyway once I had it, I cut out 5 butterflies and on each wing did one of each set...so the first butterfly had a 1 on each wing and a 2 on the back and so on...DD coloured them in which she enjoyed...then we recited them together and then counted 2,4,6,8,10 then I was able to get her to see if she knew them when I held them up...she did mostly!

then I had to "reward" her by allowing her to sit on a skateboard whilst wearing a cycle helmet and boot her down the hallway till she thumped into the door with a cushion propped up for a soft landing. She said "I'll do doubling again if I can get kicked down the hall tomorrow!"

I hope she tells her teacher "When we do maths, my Mummy kicks me down the hall!"

LouSend Fri 31-Jan-14 15:12:54

Dd can do number bonds to 10 but she needs to think about it. We'll do 8+2 and 2+8 over and over but an hour later she'll have to think about it.

She's keen to do number bonds to 20 but just isn't ready yet.

She can order all numbers up to 100.

She can add single digits to double digits and subtract 1 or 2 from double digits but will struggle if the answer changes the tens. For example 31-2= would cause her to struggle because it would take her down to the 20s.

She is starting to grasp how many more. If Amy has 10 sweets and Olivia has 14 she knows Olivia has more but is only just starting to grasp how many more. Previously she'd just keep saying 14more.

She can't do times tables, but she can double numbers to ten. This may take some thinking about though.

GeekInThePink Fri 31-Jan-14 14:58:51

crispy I can't find the my maths app- could you let me know what it's called?

AwfulMaureen Fri 31-Jan-14 14:26:38

My Dh says that about maths too....he's hardly here though due to work. I just can't SEE it as an art...I love art...where's the art in the bald facts which make up maths? It's all rules...immovable and un-changing.

BrokenButNotFinished Fri 31-Jan-14 14:00:57

I should stress that you obviously don't need a degree in Maths to talk it over with a y1 child... I just meant that for him it's fun, he sees the world mathematically (I am reminded regularly that Maths is an art, not a science) and he enjoys doing it with her. I think she picks up on that because she's always asking to do Maths with daddy...

AwfulMaureen Fri 31-Jan-14 14:00:21

Broken yes I agree but sadly schools don't...my DD is relatively strong in literacy and has very good comprehension...so that's a comfort but I have sadly neglected maths at home....oh well...it's in hand now!

BrokenButNotFinished Fri 31-Jan-14 13:56:32

My daughter is pretty much the same age as yours and I would say that she is on par with what MumOfThree said. And she can count in fives and tens to 100 or so. Some basic multiplication. She still writes the occasional number backwards, though.

My husband's degree was in Maths, so he goes over stuff with her, for fun, and which she asks to do. She seems to have a good feel for concepts - patterns, shapes and order - which my older daughter at the same age did not have. She might be able to grasp fractions, but we haven't pushed it. I feel that the school at this point is more focussed on reading ability than Maths. There are positive and negatives to this - but I'm not too fussed. My older daughter seemed to have a developmental and cognitive leap at 7, which made it clear to me why many countries don't start formal schooling until then. I still think infants should be primarily playing and learning through play - and there's time enough in the Juniors to consolidate mathematical learning (and there they are encouraged to learn the times tables - and generally seem to do so relatively easily).

AwfulMaureen Fri 31-Jan-14 13:49:10

Our school doesn't do groups by ability...they told me that by juniors what they do is to mix them up by choosing one child who is an all rounder, one who is slightly less all round and two who have some weaknesses and then they can all support one another. Seems fine for the kids who DO have some weakness but not so fine for those who are strong...they must end up supporting the others a lot.

starlight1234 Fri 31-Jan-14 13:46:38

My DS was doing number bonds to 10 when he left reception..I didn't know what a number bond was till it was highlighted on his report he needs to practise them.

I also would say in year 1 they are still doing basic maths..These things like reading , writing all sometimes just click, quicker for some than others...

I also know my DS has always been well aware of what group he is in for maths though they are not numbered but different shapes..

AwfulMaureen Fri 31-Jan-14 13:36:12

Frugal yes...I will report it and ask...would you do it too?

Batty funnily enough she has recently been talking about them again! She used to love the Numbertaker! I will look some up on Youtube for her I think....as she does enjoy them and she will relate it all to her current work.

battyralphie Fri 31-Jan-14 13:33:19

crazy suggestion, but have you thought of getting some Numberjacks DVDs? The numberjacks pretty much taught ds all about bonds.

frugalfuzzpig Fri 31-Jan-14 13:31:02

Would you consider getting the thread moved to primary education perhaps? As it'll disappear in 90 days otherwise which would be a shame.

AwfulMaureen Fri 31-Jan-14 13:28:17

Thanks wood...can I ask re your DS,...what was his Maths like at year 5 level? Was he well caught up by then?

woodrunner Fri 31-Jan-14 13:26:28

OP,

not read the whole thread, but just wanted to say: what matters is that you are sitting down and doing stuff with your daughter and that she's enjoying it and progressing because of it. Where she is in relation to other children, at this stage is really completely irrelevant, as children develop at different stages. Only thing I would say is that re literacy, if she's struggling there is an optimum time for the basics to go in, and it's between age 6 and 7.

FYI, DS2 was way behind at this stage. No interest in literacy or numeracy. He is now doing fine at a selective grammar school. The important thing is to develop their enthusiasm, curiosity and confidence as learners. Much more progress is made in class if parents do 30 mins a night too and play games at weekends. Keep on doing what you're doing, as well as reading, drawing (for pencil skills) and getting those KS1 writing skills books from Smiths, which are really fun too.

Cat98 Fri 31-Jan-14 13:24:06

Ds is in y1 and very able in maths. So it probably won't be helpful for me to post what he's doing, however I met with his teacher the other day and she told me that most of the rest of the class are working on number bonds to 20 and counting in 2s, 5s and 10s to 100.

They also place a lot of value on them understanding the concepts practically, eg for times tables it would be with groups of objects rather than just abstract numbers, which would be fine for some (like my ds) but others wouldn't really get what they are doing unless they are visualising it in real terms.
I think this approach makes a lot of sense.

AwfulMaureen Fri 31-Jan-14 13:16:24

Ice I know...and her school is "Outstanding" I'm thinking now that they're very, very good at paperwork!

Dd is a visual learner...she just needs to be engaged and once you get her excited, she is passionate about the subject...I will be concentrating on teaching her to add up but instilling "number bonds" too...silly isn;t it? I'll teach her 5 plus 3 makes 8...and that's a number bond...I still can't grasp it!

I am more than happy for people to use this thread as a maths support one...to just come in and talk about their own issues.

DragonMamma Fri 31-Jan-14 13:15:26

My DD is Yr 1 (November birthday).

She can count to past hundred, count in 10's, recognise odd and even numbers, do addition with 3 numbers ( as long as they aren't big numbers) and the same goes with subtractions. They've just started working on doubles so 8+8 = 16 etc.

HTH

Fri 31-Jan-14 13:11:44

As a slight aside, I wonder if we could have a maths homework support thread...(maybe one already exists) like PM the OP or just post your 'oh god how can I help my kid with maths homework' questions and we will do our best....

Fri 31-Jan-14 13:09:15

awful I would certainly go the route of explaining general addition/subtraction.

number bonds seem to be primarily for getting answers out of kids who the system has given up on ever understanding addition.

You child wont be one of those because you have the time/willingness/ability to prevent it. I am just totally gobsmacked that her actual teacher cannot provide that role...and that presumably those kids in the class that can't get support at home are basically stuffed.

AwfulMaureen Fri 31-Jan-14 13:06:21

Vole well said! It seems wrong to me too! DD could of course learn to parrot the sums but what's the point? She needs to fully grasp the concept first...it's kind of like teaching a child to recite combinations of letter and say the word....with no connection to what the word means.

The only thing I can do...is teach her to add up..and at the same time, teach her the bonds and hope she connects it all. I can't separate that anyway....why would I tell her a what a bond is and not explain or show WHY it is?

Fri 31-Jan-14 13:03:23

vole I could not possibly agree more...

this number bonds thing sounds like total BS to me. I probably have about 2nd year undergrad level maths and during my education I just kept getting hit by things that had been presented as 'just do this thing' with no context or understanding that held me back again and again.

There is a place for creating a functioning substitute for understanding basic maths that enables people to interface with the real world but it can't be aged 4-5.

I don't see that memorizing number bonds teaches addition...or that memorizing times tables teaches multiplication. I also found that memorizing integrals of algebraic functions isn't the same as understanding integration and memorizing symmetry groups isn't the same as understanding group theory. In some cases I believe these trades are actively destructive to mathematical ability. It is certainly painful to have to unlearn 'rules' in the process of gaining actual understanding...and totally unnecessary.

MrsBearWasTired Fri 31-Jan-14 13:02:02

That's my problem too, volestair. Dd seems to be ok at maths because she can remember the bonds but give her a sum that doesn't add up to a bond she knows and she just doesn't get it.

Has anyone had experience of the expansion method yet? Discovered this little gem when volunteering in yr4.

volestair Fri 31-Jan-14 12:50:52

This number bond stuff seems all backwards to me. It's as though somebody noticed that people who are quick and accurate at mental arithmetic know simple sums off by heart, and so assumed that it would work the other way round too - get people to learn simple sums off by heart and they'll be good at mental arithmetic. Bullshit. It's rote learning in place of understanding, which I thought schools were trying to avoid now.

AwfulMaureen Fri 31-Jan-14 12:49:13

Frugal my older DD did have a "fitting all into place" moment with reading and writing but not with maths...she still struggles in year 5 and I suspect that maths needs the building blocks in place or they just can't keep up.

AwfulMaureen Fri 31-Jan-14 12:48:16

Ice thank you so much. Unfortunately I had a horrible teacher aged ten who called me stupid daily and it really affected my confidence with maths. I wasn't stupid...just behind. It's a very emotive subject but I do try to keep my own experiences out of it...and thank you for saying you;ll be there...this is why I come here...I can't ask some questions of DDs teacher as I would be so embarrassed. My own skills stop at multiplication basically...I'm probably less able than most 9 year olds.

It hasn't stopped me being successful in my area...I work in the arts...I just need help with invoices! I DID wonder why my intervention brought about such a huge improvement so quickly...so much so that the teacher texted me to tell me! But all I can think is that my DD is prone to chatting...and the teacher has now split her from one particular friend at carpet time when they are explaining things...because DD is missing instructions.

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