Mumsnet Talk

I don't say pardon because I was taught to say 'What?', but a child in my class told me I was being rude the other day! I told him that I had been taught differently to him, and that I felt picking an adult up on their use of language was probably more rude. I've been waiting for a thread to appear, with the title, 'AIBU to think that my son's TA has no manners.'

It's not used much these days. People usuallly say what did you say again, or what was that. And somebody might be hard of hearing so you can't assume they're just not listening.

This is all explained on Wikipaedia under "U and Non-U". Of course it's all ridiculous, but I still can't help but cringe inwardly when someone says perfume or toilet. And Pardon? is just beyond the pale.

It'd be interesting to see if there's any correlation to age & use of "U" words. I'd guess that they're more favoured by the older generation. Anyone want to do some research?

Do you say scent and lavatory Silver? I once had another child do a face because I said 'Loo'. I always say toilet at school now!

I say scent. And I never, ever say toilet. I also say how do you do w
hen shaking hands. And I judge a man who wears brown shoes with a suit. I find it very entertaining!

What's the correct response to "how do you do?"

I can't stand pardon. It makes no sense. In our house we say 'what did you say' or 'sorry' damn nursery staff who have taught dd3 to say pardon

'What's the correct response to "how do you do?" '

'How do you do'

What's the correct response to "how do you do?"

This is what I don't get. Why the posh answer is considered to be the 'correct' one. Why is the way upper middle class people speak any more 'correct' than the way lower middle or working class people speak? '

Non-U' is fair enough as it's explicitly referencing class but 'correct' just sounds snobby imo.

Pardon is French for sorry so whether you like it as a word or not it makes no less sense than saying sorry when you don't hear.

Yes, I agree.

The upper and upper middle class way to respond to 'How do you do?' might well be 'how do you do?' But that doesn't make it the 'correct' way! It makes it the socially accepted way for a certain class of English person.

The working class terms 'toilet' and 'pardon' are not wrong. They are socially acceptable and saying 'what?' is considered very rude.

It does seem a very upper middle class preoccupation. Although I have heard working class people accuse someone of coming over 'all la di da' if someone they know suddenly starts saying lavatory or looking glass, I have never seen a thread on MN talking about how 'entertaining' the upper classes are for saying the distinctive things they say.

And it sounds incredibly Marie Antoinette, seeker to say you find the -lower orders people who wear brown shoes 'entertaining'.

I love this thread, it's like a roll call for anachronistic snobs.

Good Lord. Cringing when someone says "perfume"? Either you spend much of your time in involuntary spasm or you have a small circle of aquaintance.

I'm not sue how "pardon" is different to "sorry"

WTF is wrong with 'perfume'?

My DM says 'pardon' in a French accent - she is in no part French and has no French ancestry. No idea of the class implications (and don't care) but its fecking annoying.

I don't think there is anything wrong with pardon really. I am a bit deaf and tend to say, "Sorry?" or simply,"I didn't hear you." That is because the word 'pardon' doesn't come naturally to me.

Someone tell Ted Baker that men aren't supposed to wear brown shoes with a suit, that'll stop him from being so fanciful with his design ideas .

'Pardon' is actually from the French pardonner 'to forgive' so I suppose one is saying 'Forgive me' rather than 'sorry'.

Either works because it's just a shorter way of saying 'Forgive me, I was being rude and not listening to what you were saying' or 'Sorry for not paying enough attention'.

The upper classes say
Napkin
Scent
Looking glass
What?
How do you do?
Sofa
Drawing room
Loo
Pudding

This does not mean these terms are correct or superior.

The case of napkin / serviette is interesting. It is often suggested that the French form (serviette) is considered social climby, because it has been borrowed from the French whereas napkin is a solid, unpretentious, non social climby noun. But napkin is derived from the French nappe meaning table cloth, so pretty similar.

Goes to show there's no method, it's just social convention and reflects which bit of society you belong to. Why you would want to mock someone who belongs to a different bit of society is a mystery to me.

Plus it's not set in stone, word usage changes all the time, throughout classes.

I say lounge, toilet, pardon, sweet or dessert, settee and mirror so I am mighty glad to live abroad where nobody gives a toss and in fact people are desperate for their kids to be friends with my bilingual kids in the hope some English rubs off on them. Little do they know that if their kids do learn any English from mine, they will be mocked by and found entertaining by the upper classes.

As Henry Higgins said, an Englishman cannot open his mouth without making another Englishman despise him.

I taught my children to say What? or Sorry? At school however they get shouted at in no uncertain terms by the staff for not 'being polite' and saying pardon so they have to do as they're told there!

Loo is another word that teachers get angry about-only 'toilet' will do!

snice, I take it your DC go to a state school.

I've sometimes wondered if teachers at independent schools allow children to say "loo" and "What?".

I say, "Sorry?" or, "You what?" depending on to whom it is I've not been listening.

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