Mumsnet Talk

What are you meant to say when you don't hear someone? "What?" .

Sorry I can't, its wrong.

I have never heard that pardon is a cause for concern wrt manner before mumsnet. Why? WHY?

Don't get me wrong. I don't care if someone else says what. But for people to actually believe pardon if wrong is mind boggling. No one has explained this to me. Maybe after this thread i'll change my mind.

*with. Fucking with

I have never heard that before that there's anything wrong with it that is... quite the opposite in fact

I've seen it round mumsnet before and more recently on that snob thread. No explanation. None.

I think it's because "pardon?" by itself doesn't really make sense, it's short for "pardon me," or "I beg your pardon," - you're essentially asking the speaker to excuse you for not hearing them correctly and to repeat him or herself.

But I've never known anyone actually object to it, I still think it's much more polite than "What?" or "Eh?"

'Pardon' is one of those class shibboleths like 'serviette' and 'toilet'. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with the word itself (although some might try to build an argument for that). It's just that saying it instantly marks you out as someone from the lower end of the class spectrum.

Forget it. It's all rubbish.

Ain't nothing as queer as folk. I think i'm better suited to living in the woods.

It was considered (in the early 20th century!) that words of French origin were trying too hard and marked the user as a social climber without real class - Nancy Mitford wrote an essay "Noblesse Oblige" which listed certain words as "U" and others as "non-U". These days the only people who worry about whether the words they use and hear are U are the social climbers that they were originally supposed to identify! They now know the words but they don't come naturally to them so they are constantly on the look out for someone who doesn't know the rules to sneer at and feel superior to. (IMO of course) for what it's worth I went to university with a number of very aristocratic users of the words toilet and pardon, if you don't need to seek social status you just don't care!

my DD's say 'sorry?' if they don't hear

"Pardon?" is perfectly acceptable, and is no less senseless than "What?" as a stand alone exclamation.

People think they're ever so civilised by saying words such as toilet and pardon are common. The majority of those people simply have ideas above their station, or are actually involved with the upper echelon of British society but forget that not everyone has to pass the time of day with the Queen.

What Yakshemash said.

DDs tacher says "pardon" and she's picked it up....but it's more of a "paddon?"

It make me shudder when I hear DD say it

You can say "I beg your pardon?" if you must. Or "Sorry?" Or "I didn't catch that?" Or "What?" In a polite interrogative voice. Or even "Say again?" Or "excuse me?"

But never ever "Pardon?". You use "Pardon me" if you've burped, or committed some other mild social gaffe.

Absolutely nothing.

I use it, I ask my children to use it and if that marks us out as lower class commoners so be it. Anyone who has a problem with that can kiss my plebeian arse.

You're going to be judged by one group or another whether you use what or pardon. So choose who you want to be judged by!

yes, you're supposed to say 'what' instead. it's not rude!

I don't think there's anything wrong with pardon, it's just not a word I use. I do say what or sorry because that was what I was brought up to use.

I would never, ever correct anyone for saying pardon, and I also do not want anyone correcting DS for saying what.

I don't think it's class. I just use the same word as my parents.

I'd say 'what was that, sorry?' because to say 'what', regardless of u and non-u conventions, seems to me to suggest its entirely the other person's fault you didn't hear what they said, as if they were mumbling or something. 'U' can be rude just like anything else.

My bugbear, which I've been hmmm'd at for on here, is 'excuse me' as a command rather than 'excuse me, please'.

Apparently Jilly Coopers DS once told his teacher, "My Mummy says pardon is a much worse word than fuck"

Thanks everyone.
<busies herself building house out of sticks in woods>

It's a silly class thing. Ignore and rise above.

I think it's a little arrogant, in an 'I beg pardon from no-one' sort of way.

yes, you're supposed to say 'what' instead. it's not rude!

What do you mean, you're supposed to say 'what'? That everyone should try to sound like they're upper middle class?

If someone can come up with a convincing grammatical argument against 'pardon' then fair enough, but blindly following the rules for the sake of them annoys me, tbh.

The list of U-words is archaic, anyone sticking to that would sound ridiculous these days.

Saying "Pardon?" or "Sorry?" is apologising for your actions which led to not hearing what somebody said. Why not stop being so bloody rude and pay attention to people talking to you?

I'm a bit deaf, so I often miss bits of what people are saying, it's not through lack of attention. No doubt there are plenty of others in the same situation.

But I don't think worrying about what to say is worth the time, and trying to stick to some outdated list of words is farcical, language is dynamic. What was U then isn't necessarily so now.