Mumsnet Talk

what age are they I would and had to stagger bedtimes with my 2 when they were younger but saying that they still messed about TBh as long as they stayed in their room and stayed in bed I didnt mind try and stay calm it isnt easy put the younger ` first read a story and then read the older 1 a story down stairs you may have to do that for themt o get to sleep and you keep your temper

You use the star stickers to stop them getting to that point.....

yes star charts are pretty meaningless at that age, ime. Older maybe, but not when boundaries are being severely tested.

Well even earlier, I would say (annoyingly I appreciate) that any average spirited child (of 4/5 +) would choose bedtime high jinks over remaining calm in order to be rewarded with a sticker.

what about a competion or game between them I saw somebody suggest pebbles or marbles in a jar to see who gets the most ( the both get equal ) at the end of the week, try and incentive I do sympathise because mine really took the biscuit at that age

I agree that staggering bedtime seems to be the way to go its about what you want not what they want.

If you get to the end of your tether then just tell them that you will be removing a toy or something, count to five, and then follow it through.

If you really lose it (and i have been there) then tell them that is enough , that you will come back when they behave , ,turn out the light and go downstairs and leave them to it.

of course they would hate staggered bedtimes they wouldnt be able to mess about would they they are both enjoying not sleeping and winding each other up

I had to look back at their ages I think your nearly 7 yr old should be treated as the bigger brother now. I stopped smacking mine I didnt do it very often but It just doesnt work it doesn't do any good in the long run, my eldest is nearly 20 and the norm was a smacked bum for children (apparently)

Hi - I think at the age they're at, lights should be going out straight after stories - they don't need any time after stories with the light on. It's a very firm goodnight, go straight to sleep and that's that. Our ds's are 8 and 11 and only the 11 year old is allowed to have his light on after going to bed - and that's only in the last year.

we put ours to bed together at the age yours are at - it's really hard - they're tired and you're tired... The only thing to do is stick to a firm routine if you can and if it carries on being a nightmare think about changing things around and maybe putting them to bed separately if things don't start to work.

It's a microcosm of what happens outside of bedtimes - you are in control, not the dcs, and if that message isn't being given by both you AND dp/dh children will, as lovely and determined as they should be, have a go.

Doubt if star charts would help and if they've never had staggered bed times it's probably too late to start and the eldest would keep the younger awake.

Agree that the 5 min til lights out thing is a mistake, obviously isn't working, kids that age don't have much conception of how long '5 mins' is so probably just taking it as their cue for more play time.

They need a clear signal that it's time to lie down and go to sleep. Are they settled while you read the story? If so, once you finish the story give them a kiss and tell them 'it's time to go to sleep' - power of suggestion!

why do you hate reward charts?

You dont like negative reinforcement and you dont like positive reinforcement??

we just do story each and then kiss and light out, although door ajar and hall light on.
They go through phases of being pains in the neck about it, but we either sort it out with housepoint chart, although im not organised enough to do it properly, with a lego minifigure for 10 housepoints or something, or sometimes i just threaten them with turning the hall light off, which they usually ignore, and then i will turn it off, which they hate, but the next night they take notice of the threat more.

Hate reward charts because I tried them before and it just became to much of a focal point, do I get a star for that etc. I want my dc to learn to behave without being rewarded. Surely going to bed should be a given, not something you're rewarded for?!

I'm not suggesting smacking is the better alternative.

Dh and I usually take it in turns to do bedtime, but he's been working late this week. We live in a one bedroom flat so separate bedrooms not an option either!

Spoken to dh and think we're just going to have to come down hard before it escalates.

Sorry if I missed the answer to this, but why would you not stagger bedtimes? If it's only b/c they would hate it, then I think Worra is right about that. I'm sorry you had such a crummy night.

I think your husband is right I do think you need to cut back on the attention at bedtime story then lights out and if they play up no screaming no shouting just march them back to bed I do think you are probably just fed up of it every night and if their dad is working late you have no support , I also used to count to 3 with mine

What have you actually tried OP?

Have I missed where you explained why you can't stagger bed times? There's quite a big difference in ages between you dcs.

But you basically need to be consistent and, yes, try a reward system again. While it may not work - although I don't see why there should be any confusion as you just want them to go straight to sleep without messing - it's got to be worth a go if you've got to the point of hitting them.

Just had to add, both very good at school, both generally good at home, although ds1 definitely pushing boundaries at the moment, bedtime just got into a bad habit I think.

Don't want to stagger bedtime also because I'm pretty sure ds1 would just stay awake til ds2 came up, then start playing up. It can take him awhile for him get to sleep.

OK - if you don't like star charts, how do you feel about them losing 'priviledges' - screen time/earlier to bed the next night/no sweets at the weekend/no playing out - whatever it is that they value?

I'd put them to bed one at a time, youngest first, when he's asleep the other one can go up and WOE BETIDE if he wakes the youngest up, if he does, HE can go to bed first the next night - they wouldn't like it, but that's the POINT!

The odd smack wont do them any harm - they might even go to bed tomorrow night without the bloody messing about. I was smacked a grand total of twice - my parents are lovely - but the eventual threat (after being asked, told, reminded etc) of 'do you want a smacked bottom?' was enough to let me know I had pushed my luck too far! It is ridiculous to say it escalates into a frequent thing.

Well, something has to change and only you can decide what that is. Without a stick or a carrot things will stay the same.

Don't want to stagger bedtime also because I'm pretty sure ds1 would just stay awake til ds2 came up, then start playing up. It can take him awhile for him get to sleep.

well why not try it put the 4 yr old first then the 6 yr old try it at the weekend or alternate it even if it is 10 minutes give you 10 minutes with each on their own IYSWIM.

My youngest recently started messing around at bedtime. I warned him that for every 5 minutes late he lost 20p of his pocket money. It's amazing how quickly that one settled down! Could you try that?

and if you say they would hate staggered bedtimes use it to your advantage if they are going to share a room then they need to learn to calm down and go to sleep

Well I'm thinking I'm going to say for every time I have to intervene, they go to bed five minutes earlier the next night.

Thanks everyone!

Well I'm thinking I'm going to say for every time I have to intervene, they go to bed five minutes earlier the next night.

I think that is a good idea although you may have them in bed at 6pm for a while

I suspect whatever you choose to do will work if you stick to it, without waiver. They'll get it. You just have to choose what is the least hassle for you to help you do that.