Mumsnet members get a 10% discount from Boden (including free returns and free delivery), The White Company, sweaty Betty, Luxury Family Hotels, JoJo Maman Bebe, Siblu, Blooming Marvellous, GLTC, Bump to 3 (the official online shop for Grobags) and more. Click here for more info Join mumsnet here.
Ds is usually lovely at home, very loving and cheerful. And is usually good when out and about with me and dp (the odd tmeper tantrum excluding). However, we are having huge problems with him when he goes to playgroup (once a week) and when he is at the childminders.
It seems as if he doesn't like other children and often lashes out at them (hits, kicks, bites and now it seems he's started to spit as well.)
It's come to a bit of a head this week when he was described as a thug. And while I do take offence at the terminology used, I can see their point. During htis session he apparaently deliberately soiled himself - something he has never, ever done before.
Dp and I are thinking of removing from the pre-school as I don't think ds is ready yet for this level of interaction.
I'm devastated and just don't know how to help him. I'm a teacher, and am completely ashamed of his behaviour and that despite clear boundries, routines and expectations, ds is like this.
He has a good diet, sleeps well, is potty trained and has a consistant approach to discipline from both dp and myself.
Ds has now started to hit me too, when he does this I say no firmly and put him down and walk away. And while I can do this at home, out in public it is a bit harder. If I remove him from another child he has hurt, he hits me instead, whilst screaming blue murder.
I'm rambling now, but just don't know what to do. I can't believe we have turned out to be such rubbish parents.
Anyone going through anything similiar? Or any advice? I've named changed btw, as I've several real life friends who know who I am, and can't face the embarresment of it all.
A thug??????? Deliberately soiled himself? Honestly what are they on? Take him out of there as quickly as possible! You are not rubbish parents! You are probably right and he's just not ready for it yet - which is fine and normal.
Thank you emkana, a tiny sane part of brain knows this, and we will take him out.
But what if he stays like this? There is just no reasoning with him at all. After he has calmed down he says sorry, but then will be doing it again 10 minutes later.
It doesn't sound like your son is happy in that nursery at all. What sort of feeling do you get from the place? How is he at the childminder's? Is he happier there and what does she think about his behaviour? Could she help you and him so that he is able to interact with other children at his own pace? These are all questions I'd be asking myself, but I wouldn't beat myself up about my parenting if I were you. I would try to find out what is making him so unhappy.
I agree with emkana. he is doing NORMAL 2.5yr old things. he is NOT a thug and if the playgroup are calling him that and have no other way of helping him deal with his behaviour and helping him to learn how to interact with other children then they are crap.
I would take him out immediately. you're right, he may just not be ready for it atm. I have just taken my 3 yr old out of pre-school becaseu I realised that he just wasn't enjoying it and his behaviour was deteriorating because of it
1. a lot of 2.5 yos aren't toilet trained at all. they certainly don't have the control required to deliberately soil themselves. ffs.
2. a 2.5 yp can NEVER be a thug. NEVER.
3. it sounds like you are going through a rough patch. the hitting thing is tiresome, but normal, just keep dealing with ot and the message WILL get through.
The good news is that this stage will honestly pass, and quite quickly.
the bad news is that the nursery workers are clearly a bunch of eegits.
I put him into preschool in the first place as I was worried about his social skills and his behaviour, AND becuase he turns 3 at the end of august and therefore will start nursery, so wanted to prepare him a bit.
He doesn't have to start nursery at 3 does he? (confused)
Your ds sounds very advanced with his toilet training but no way can he deliberately soil himself. Ds, who is toilet trained, can occasionally have accidents and he's4.
He doesn't sound ready for nursery and certainly not this nursery. There should have been lots of reassurance, love and positive intervention; not wringing of hands and using terms like 'thug'!
he struggles in situations where there are a lot of children and particularlyt when it is noisy.
he pushes. a lot. he will push other kids for coming near him, and god forbid they touch what he is playing with. and he pushes hard too.
he is forever pulling others around and "policing" them. ie, if another child touches something that he thinks they shouldn't then he'll hit them or pull them away until they're on the floor crying.
he doesn't really play with other children. he prefers playing on his own and doesn't join in games particularly, although he will show a bit of interest these days particularly if it's an older child leading the game.
When he was at pre-school he was unhappy and I found that his behaviour at home was deteriorating too. so we had lots of shouting, lots of tantrums, lots of pushing or hitting his little brother. he stopped going to the toilet and started wetting himself. This I am sure was all down to the stress of being regularly put in a situation that he really struggled to handle. and since taking him out he has been a lot happiuer at home
worriedashamed - my DS3 (DC4, so I sort of knew what I was doing by that stage) was the 2 and 3 year old from hell. He bit and scratched at playgroup, snatched toys - was generally that child who every parent dreads. I remember clearly some little girl emerging from a ball pit with red scratch marks down her face and just knowing it was DS3. BUT IT WAS A PHASE!! They get over it!! He will be 6 tomorrow and is a lovely, gentle, considerate child - far more tuned into others' needs than my older, "easier", children were at 6.
I agree that the playgroup are morons and he just needs a bit more time to mature. Try having individual children around for short periods so he does learn some social skills, sharing, etc and keep being consistent - it sounds to me like you're doing a great job.
My ds, like hassled's, went through a phase (which seemed VERY long at the time...) of finding it v hard to be 'sociable' - especially in big groups - quite often shouting, hitting, pushing or snatching if anyone was playing with the toy he thought was his. I tried taking him to a pre-school playgroup when 2 1/2 and he seemed to change before my eyes - he seemed anxious and actually approached another child to grab her for no apparent reason which I'd NEVER seen him do before. I decided he just wasn't ready for that environment (it was very busy and like nothing he'd come across before) so he didn't go back after the first visits. We just went to quieter play groups and parks etc. and played with other children we knew. He still had his moments but alongside some happy playing. I'm sure some little ones (and maybe boys more) react to something they find stressful by getting aggressive. As well as the fact that all young children are just learning to be sociable, to share etc. Some are maybe a bit more dramatic about it!
However - on a positive note - now at age 4 my ds amazes me by how nicely he plays with others. He almost always shares things well, takes turns etc. Even if someone takes something from him he usually just walks away. It really is something that they learn with time & maturity, although it seems like forever to you, and IME can be 2 steps forward and 1 step back for a while (like anything else...)
But you are NOT a rubbish parent and it sounds like you're doing everything right, and listening to his needs in taking him out.
As for the hitting you, I have no perfect answers, but it is another thing my ds has done. He seems to go through phases, hitting for a few weeks then forgetting about it for months, then it will reappear (like at the moment ). The only thing I have found is that the less attention I give it, the quicker it seems to pass. I usually forget that and start off getting cross with him when he does it, but it's actually when I start to ignore it (but move away from him so he can't carry on) that it stops. That definately worked when he was 2 1/2 but I did have some quite funny (now) moments when I would be walking around the house pretending to be very busy and preoccupied and he would be following behind me flapping his arms trying to hit me.
On the subject of Foundation Stage in Sept, children don't HAVE to start when they're 3 and if he's not ready could you keep him out longer?
Hope some of this waffle is of help. Don't worry IT WILL PASS
jollydo thank you for your post, lots forme to think about. I'm on my own today and tonight with ds (day off school, and dp working away) and he has been lovely today.
hi i agree with the other posters on this. he is NOT a thug. he's just a very young boy. my nephew behvaed like this at this age. i used to look after him a couple of days a week and he used to "square up" iyswim to other children to see if he could frighten them (he's very big for his age) and it used to work, or he'd lash out for no reason etc. in large groups he was the same as your lo he would literally walk up to someone and smack them one, they didnt know him, had done nothing to provoke it. used to hit his mum a lot as well. but he did pass through the stage, its very hard work and wearing but it does pass. my nephew is now a very sweet (mostly, just like other children) loving boy. always a hug and a kiss when he visits plays beautifully with my dd. as for having to go to nursery at 3, its not compulsory, its there if you want it but they don't have to go. i dont think i'll send my dd. if she goes at all it def wont be for 5 days a week. sounds as if you have done the right thing by taking him out of the pre-school am very at the "label" they have given your poor ds. my sis in law used to take nephew to toddlers etc, as did i when i had him, and if his behaviour got bad we'd leave immediately. as he got more used to the social aspect of large groups of children we were able to stay for longer sssions and he even went to playschool! so all tho its not an easy phase it will pass. just keep being consistent with him he needs the reassurance of boundaries that you set (as do all children) your doing a great job- keep it up
dylsmum - thank you, it's nice to know other children who have come through it.
I was searching on here last night, and found a thread about a ds hitting his mother (sorry can't remember the names involved), and the advice was to say no, it's not nice, in a loud, cross voice, then walk away, count to 10, and then go back and pretend it hadn't happened.
I've been doing this today, and I'm so amazed that it has completely worked! I think it's the ignoring coupled with the then going back and being cheerful as if nothing had happened. It's like giving ds another chance iyswim.
The advice you mention above is from Dr Chrisopher Green's book Toddler Taming. I don't have a toddler (yet) but it's a great book. It's top of the mumsnet book reviews.
You poor, porr thing. What horrible judgments for the preschool to make. He is obviously completely out of his depth, socially. Keep things very safe and simple - a familiar routine/carer. The rest will come. He does not yet have to deal with these group situations. You will know when he is ready.
Give him lots of love, affection and firm boundaries about what you expect of him and avoid situations which stress him out, for now, until he gets his confidence back.
I've been thinking about this one. I really don't think you should be calling yourselves rubbish parents, not yet anyway, reassess when he's 18 or so.
He's still very young, just a baby really, and I wonder whether you're looking ahead too much? I did that, DS1 was very rough (especially with his sister) for ages and ages and it seemed like nothing we did made any difference. Our punishments got harsher and harsher (a mistake i now realise, calmness and consistency is the key) because we panicked and thought we were raising a deliquent.
He's now nearly 9 and an absolute love, very gentle (although still prone to the odd violent outburst!) and very anxious to do the right thing. A bit too anxious sometimes, and so of course my parental guilt tells me we were too hard on him.
I think some children just take a long, long time to understand that hitting etc is unacceptable, especially boys. If DS2 is "punchy" (he's 21m) I shall just repeat, repeat, repeat, calmly and firmly until it sinks in.
In our area kids don't legally have to start school until the Sept after they are 5, although pretty much everyone starts after they're 4 so they go through the Reception year. Are you sure he has to start in Sept, because it sounds like he may not be ready and I don't believe in the "preparation" theory?. If they're not ready no amount of preparation will change that, and it may even make things worse.
Don't worry, worriedashamed, and please, please don't be ashamed. I bet he's bloody lovely.
Haven't read all the thread but am so cross for you. Your poor little boy. That place sounds awful. If a child is 'deliberately' soiling himself they should be asking themselves why they aren't meeting his needs, not labelling him as a 'thug.'
at the preschool
) 
). The only thing I have found is that the less attention I give it, the quicker it seems to pass. I usually forget that and start off getting cross with him when he does it, but it's actually when I start to ignore it (but move away from him so he can't carry on) that it stops. That definately worked when he was 2 1/2 but I did have some quite funny (now) moments when I would be walking around the house pretending to be very busy and preoccupied and he would be following behind me flapping his arms trying to hit me.
