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Just finished reading the Gina Ford Comtented Little Baby book and have to say that everything she says is very logical and makes full sense. She writes and explains everyhting in a very structured way and I found it is very easy to follow.
I am now looking at The Baby Whisperer by Tracy Hogg and I find that book so unstructured and random, but so far she is saying the same as Gina Ford bar the odd bit here and there.
I think I am going to try with the Gina Ford method, but obviously adapting for my and my baby's own needs, and without getting in a flap if I get behind schedule.
Has ayone else read these books or tried to work by them with their babies? Am I completely mad even mentioneing the name Gina Ford? I've had a lot of negative reactions from friends, who say she's a baby nazi - most of them haven't even read the book though.
I read bot books and i must admit I found the Gina Ford method a little too structured and governed by the clock a bit too much. I have heard people have had fantastic success and really settled contented babies using her method though. Just didn't fit with my lifestyle, I found it to be unrealistic and just couldn't possibly have followed it.
Tracey Hogg is a little more relaxed but again there is an element of how many hours they are awake for and when to feed. This is great if you have a baby that naps for an hour and half but my ds only napped (still does!) for half an hour streches.
She states how straight after sleep, you should feed the baby. However, my ds was fed and had activity time for 2 hours, napped for half an hour, and just wasn't ready for another feed since it was only 2 and half hours since his last one. I tried a lot of her methods such as shhh/pat and pick up put down to extend naps, all with no success. That doesn't mean that you wouldn't have great success though, my ds is awkward!
I think they are both great methods if you want to try Gina Ford then go for it. The only thing I would say is that you may have to be more flexible than she reccommends. For example, I've heard examples of people following Gina Ford that they become housebound as everything, even nappy changes are on a schedule. Also many of the babies are in such a routine that they will not sleep in a buggy or pram so mums have to be home to put them in the cot for naps.
I think both of the methods are great if you have a baby that will allow you to put them in a routine. For us, it was very much the baby putting us in a routine! Not a bad thing though as he naturally does nap and feed at the same times (roughly) everyday and has slept through since 10 weeks so I can't complain!
Yay for me. But you need Tracey's book to achieve the routines I think. She raises a really interesting point about listening to / watching your db and getting to understand what they need when. I found that gf's routines provide a framework for that to work in and help me understand what the most likely cause of crying was (ds1 cried continuously for 9 months). Both my boys are very happy in their routines and ds1 (now 4.5) in particular really seems to need it. The wheels do still fall off if whoever is looking after him deviates too far from what he knows. However that's the child. I have met children/babies who are really quite flexible. Just not mine! Personally I never thought my life would be so regimented and look forward to a bit more freedom as they grow older.
Anyway - where has Tracy gone? I think it's mn who want me make sure that we are all behaving. Tho - I actually like GF and adapted her routine to sort me and my ds out!!!
Hmmm, Gina Ford.... I'll go upstairs now and remind my 3day old son he needs to be awake in about 13 minutes so I can breastfeed him for exactly 17.4 minutes and then express for 11.8 minutes after brushing my teeth 5 times each side.
It's impossible. Let your baby guide you, they create their own routine and if you just fall into it and go with the flow then you'll be a lot less stressed than following any other 'method'.
'Methods' that have been written for profitmargins btw.
Ha ha - but still - isn't it a bit fishy that Tracy makes 1 post, asks a question that would in another life deserve to be answered - then she disappears Something isn't right
I used GF's routines from when my ds was about 3 months old. Worked really well for us, he is a very happy chap (now 7) and I was very pleased we did it.
However, I think it does depend on what sort of person you are. I very much a planner, want to know what is happening when, quite organised and structured about life. So for me it was ideal, and saved my sanity. But I think if you were more of a spontaneous sort of person who doesn't like to plan, then it would not be for you.
I have to stand up for Gina Ford actually, although I know you will eat me alive! Just cos it dodn't fit with my lifestyle, or my baby for that matter doesn't mean that there isn't so truth in what she says. I have heard some people say it has completely improved their babies temprement and even their relationship with their baby as things are predicatable and the baby knows what to expect. I could have never made it work for us though but I'm sure it's good if you can do it.
Gina sorted out 'sleeping all night' for my ds. We never had any real problems once we applied her strategy. Took a bit longer than the book said but we knew what to do.
It worked for me and I have an autistic son who sleeps 12 hours a night - some ASD children have terrible sleep problems. However I should say he was a good night time sleeper before we went GF so it may not be the reason. However ASD children famously love routines. But I can't imagine this being the decisive factor for anyone - 'Ooh maybe we should go GF in case he's autistic'
I think you need to decide on whether you wish to trust a woman who has never had children of her own and therefor has never had to put into practice (long term) her routines.
i see it a bit like taking driving lessons from someone who has only ever been a passenger.
But mothers who are into attachment parenting trust all these guys (as in male ones) who write the AP books - what do these mere men really know about babies?
Ahhh but the AP authour I am thinking of (but daren't mention his name!) does have 8 children, one of which was very fussy and high needs. At least he has an idea of what it's like to live with a baby!
Tracy - Gina Ford and Tracey Hogg's books do not reflect current understanding of infant needs or infant feeding. The 'logic' and 'full sense' you have found in the CLBB are spurious.
You are sensible to plan for not getting into a flap if your schedule slips, of course, but you might ask yourself if you need a written schedule at all - you already accept that babies and mothers are individual with individual needs, so it seems odd to think that a pre-prepared timetable could be helpful.
There are many other books around that support you in an understanding of your baby's needs - look for a book by Margot Sutherland called The Science of Parenting which puts into practice what we know about the best sort of caring for babies.
I don't think Tracy's a troll, really...if she's a newbie she may just not realise that Mumsnet forums get replies within minutes of the original post.
Read Dream Babies and you will not trust a "baby guru" again be they a routine fan or an attachment fan. Listen to their ideas but ultimately just do what works for you. Go with your instincts.
I know the one you mean and I think he might be fussy with high financial needs - but seriously I think everyone should do whatever they want with their children short of satanic sacrifice. I don't think being a professional nanny is necessarily a worse perspective than being a father. TBH I personally know very little about children and could not possibly advise anyone and I've been living with them for years now....
Meand - A troll is someone who posts specifically to cause a bit of controvercy. sometimes regular Mners will "troll" as a bit of a laugh but genuine trolls do it justto cause trouble and upset.
given MN's history with the GF, it is obviously likely to cause people to be suspicious.
Oh I totally agree, i'm not saying I follow his methods at all! Just that I find it hard to believe that anyone can write a book on children without having them. I personally think people should let the baby set the routine. These books are fine if that's what you want to do, or are capable of doing, which i am clearly not! We had no routine except bedtime routine until ds was about 5 months and even then it just sort of 'happened' and we realised that we were doing these things at roughly the same time each day. We didn't intend it to be that way.
Erm yes I guess I am a newbie - we all have to start somewhere, but I have started and finished all in one thread by looks of things and feel very very small indeed. I will go away and think about what I have done - with all the sniggers I guess something quite serious.
Bless you Tracy, I really don't think people meant to make you feel bad. In all seriousness, it's entirely up to you luv. If you think you can stick to a routine then go for it. You may see some of the benefits that my fmore organized friends have seen! How old is your baby?
You have done nothing wrong Tracey but given our quite highly publicised legal wrangle with GF many would jump to teh conclusion that you were aware of it.
No need for you to feel small. In fact you have just had your first flaming on MN, it means you are no longer a "newbie"
try jumping in on some less controvercial threads - maybe on the pregnancy topics for the time you are due?
If you didn't know the history between MN and GF, and why would you if you're new, then it's a perfectly valid question.
(Basically, GF tried to sue MN after less than complimentary posts were seen on MN. MN settled out of court, IIRC)
To your original question, i think her methods can be useful, but be open minde until your baby arrives. My baby was sleepy, and lethargic, with very little appetite. Her routines suited us as it prompted him to feed at regular intervals whereas he didn't on his own. Once he got to about 10 weeks old, his own routine evolved, which was slightly different to Gina's but it worked for us.
Many, even most, babies have a much clearer idea of what they want to do though, and this may or may not fit in with Gina.
Be prepared to go with the flow when your LO arrives and you'll do just fine.
hello Tracey it is my personal opinion and professional observation that neither GF nor TH's "routines" are geared towards the needs of babies, in particular their feeding/nutrional needs but more widely their emotional and psychological needs. it is my professional observation that following aroutine strictly, for example the routines suggested in GF's books, can lead to social isolation for some women. it is also my observation that anyone who tries to offer very specific advice about how to look after a tiny baby they have never met is trying to sell you something in the real world, women with experience of looking after babies know that babies are all different and have different needs. you will find out about how to look after your baby by observing your baby and responding to your baby's needs, rather than by looking in a book welcome to mumsnet!
Hmmmmmm, reckoning this is a troll posting, but hey if not.............. You need to work out what you need and want from having a baby. If the most important thing to you is that you can 'get back to normal' as soon as possible after the birth, then it is likely that you will need to train your baby to fit in to a very strict schedule, and perhaps GF is the one for you. If you feel that the most important thing is that you meet the needs of your baby, treating them as an individual person rther than an inconvenience, then I would suggest that a more nurturing, flexible, more relaxed pproach is called for. I agree that Baby whisperer is the same in essence as GF, but nicer! If you want a book, maybe have a look at Penelope Leach or What to expect in the first year. Having a new baby is hard, unbelievable so, but it's natural for it to be so. Go with the flow and ride the beast!!!
Really sorry Tracey, I wrote this post ages ago and was distracted by children, so just pressed post. Don't leave. You'll find MN to be a fanstastic resource and support especially int those early weeks. Welcome!
awwww dont leave....we were all just too scared to tell you what happened incase we got struck down i actually thought MNHQ would come along and inform away.....i wish id have made an entrance in the mumsnet communtity likeyou have
I used to use the GF site when DS1 was small - I left when I started to realise he was autistic and there is no special needs section on GF - at least not when I was a member. Yes, there were a few nutters who were taking it too seriously but the vast majority are just using the routines as a very rough guide to how to structure the day and are not forcing any issue ahead of time. Also some mothers may have ASD issues themselves - I find it very hard to act spontaneously and can only cope with fairly set parameters.
And if it helps - I got called a troll on one of my first posts and was seriously flamed. a couple of years later and a lot of vigorous posting - I was recently called "prolific" and likened to some of the MN royalty.
Admitedly i posted it myself but hey, all publicity is godd publicity
tracey possibly not the greatest start to MN life, but welcome anyway
I tried to go it alone for 4 weeks after DS was born but it was a pretty miserable experience, he cried and I cried - a lot. So I did the GF routine and it worked first day. See how you get on, you may well be fine letting baby set the routine if not you can just take little bits from the book as and when you need it.
Gina ford - for me it's a nay. It's not an approach I am comfortable with as it is my opinion that the relationship between mother and child should be a more spontaneous, tender and natural one, governed by instinct and love, rather than by the clock. My fear about approaches like this are that they create a distance between mother and child, prevent the mother from developing and coming to recognise her ownparentalinstincts and I really think that a child denied the natural, spontaneous, instinctive, responsive nurturing of its mother will fare less well emotionally. I worry that it may create a situation where they don't bond because the approach really is all about control and distance, when you should be loving and close.
Blimey, I really have offended on many counts. One thousand of my humblest apologies. But now my choice of name isn't ok. Hey ho. When I have a spare minute I promise I will think of something witty and clever, that I will probably end up forgetting next time. Hmmmmm. Either way, I will be in cognito next time as I can't have my notoriety preceeding me.
It's been an education, an interesting and amusing one at that. Does everyone have to go through an initiaition to be accepted on here.
But at least it looks like all your babies are in splendid routines given the speed with which everyone replied to this
Interesting what you say hecate. One of the things I found when I had ds, was that I just didn't have much instinct for what you do with the baby. Lots of people said to me "Oh, when you have the baby, you'll instinctively know what to do" but it didn't really happen for me.
I therefore found Gf's routines very helpful and reassuring. Having used them successfully, I would dispute that they lead to a distance between mother and child - in my case they helped me to become closer to ds, as I was able to relax a bit more once I could rely on the rourine working. I would say that ds and I have an extremely close, loving relationship.
welll I followed GF with DS, and he was fab. I did get a little stressed about routines, but I was also depressed (and following GF did not cause the depression, it helped me). DS was a happy, secure, easy, good sleeper.
DD has not been so easy, and I tried to follow the routines but she has had none of it. Now she fgoes through the night I find I have re introduced them, and she settles well during the day and night, and eats well.
Luck? Maybe. But for me, the routines gave me a lifeline to get things done.
funny you should ask Tracy, I was just thinking that on this thread after I stupidly got involved in a working/stay at home mothers debate. I swore, 6 months ago when I joined MN that I wouldn't but I did.
That thread is quite a good heads up for the landmines...
tracy i was told off by my name when i first joined.....due to numbers in it i just accepted that these netters were here before me so just went along with it....i am truly sorry if you have been offended....we aren't like this all the time...in fact this place is a lifeline for some belive it or not...just give us a chance, im sure you'll change your mind
By the way, welcome Tracy, sorry you have had a bit of a rough ride with your first post. You'll find Mumsnet has a real variety of advice from a huge range of people, which is great. They won't always agree with each other, though!
Unfortunately I think you unwittingly picked about the most controversial topic you could have done, but I'm sure no-one will mind. I hope you enjoy it, now you are here.
Lol Tracey - your name is fine but there have been many deabtes about screennames. it was decided that we like people to think of funny or witty names that show an insight into their personality.
Its mostly names with numbers or "mummy" in them that people dislike. and yet we have a great number of much respected Mners who have "mummy" names. Psychomumof5 LuluMamma MumofMonsters
Hi all, There's no question we'd pull this thread. Very happy for you all to discuss different parenting methods. Just do stick to our general rules - no personal attacks, gross obscenities, mention of Froot Shoots - and please do report anything that doesn't.
is this a joke ????? 
, but please be aware that gina is a sensitive subject! 
tracy i was told off by my name when i first joined.....due to numbers in it 
