What do I do.

contact a womens domestic violence group in your area and ask for advice.

Oh you poor thing! How are the children now? How are you? Is there anyone you can go and talk to? Are you or your children hurt? Sorry I'm asking you so many questions and haven't given you any advice

you need to leave.

go to your local housing office and ask them to house you tempoarily.

do it now whilst he is asleep

i'm sorry i havent seen any of your other postings but that sounds very scary esp for the kids.

i think you know what you need to do really dont you?

{{{{{{}}}}}}}}}}}}

my mum used to do things like this

the best advice I can give you is to show your children that you are trying to make their situation better or they may not forgive you for making them suffer through this. Sorry if that sounds harsh.

I am ok - just tidying up and trying to work. The children are ok they are at school and nursery (5 & 3). They seem fine - and I tried to get on with things as normal.

yes they will seem fine

I used to help my dad clear up then look after my younger siblings whilst simultaneously doing brilliantly at school

it can really fuck you up

has he done this kind of thing before?

Is this a sober rage, or a drunk/drug rage?

Jazzicatz I think you should really listen to Enid! I'm so sorry this is happening to you but you can make it stop

Does it matter what kind of rage?

You must get him out or leave yourself for your safety and the kids.

I'm so sorry to hear you're going through this. There are people who can help you. Women's Aid.

I know - just not sure really what to do Dp suffers from depression - which he will not admit to. He can be fine for weeks and is the best dad. Then the depression takes over and he flies into rages. He hasn't done too much damage just a couple of broken plates and a cup - but it is what it signifies. Just don't know what to do

If he was mine he would not now be asleep in bed.

He would be either packing his stuff to get the hell out, or in police custody.

If you love your children get him OUT. They don't need this in their lives, honestly they don't.

Jazzicat-I lived in this sort of environment as a child and it is very scary-it is the unpredictability that causes such huge amounts of stress. I know that you must be feeling utterly helpless but you have to act for the sake of your children. Unless this behaviour stops you need to remove your children from it. As they get older and more aware of what is going on the harder it will become for them to deal with.
I really feel for you and I hope that you can resolve this quickly for all of you

I'm not sure you'll want to hear this but my close friend who is now in her late 40's has never forgiven her mother for not leaving her violent father.

Worse than the physical abuse was the mental - she described sittig at the top of the stairs scared to come downstirs in case her fatehr was in "a mood". She is terribly insecure and needy with men and as a result has a history of fractured relationships and now a single mother herself.

When he gets up how is he likely to explain his behaviour? Could you threaten him with an ultimatum - not nice I know! Either he seeks help or he leaves?

you are the only person who can protect your children and they have the right to expect it from you.

Depression may explain it but it still doesnt mean that your childrne should be expected to live with it. Perhaps you could move out (move him out) temporarily with the condition that if he gets his depression treated you will reconsider.

Jazzi, my dh gets depression too. The first time it happened I eventually told him to get treatment or get out. I meant it. It's tough love, you have to MAKE him get treatment.

He went on ADs, and life got easier. Since then he has had two more bouts, but now trusts me to see him on the downward spiral, and will go to Drs (after a couple of rows) when I tell him he needs to.

I have just tried to speak to him and it culminated in an argument - he will not accept responsibility and is trying to blame me for his mood. Can't kick him out - it is his house.

Kew's last post sums it up.

my dad was like this when we were little. i can always remember having a sick feeling in my stomach when he was due home in case he was in a mood. i lived, day in, day out under the most enormous stress. i was a child.

when i got older i was angry so i got drunk, slept around, got pierced/pregnant/arrested

is that what you want for your children ?

please get out. it doesn't have to be over, just get you and your children safe for now and then get him the help he obviously needs and maybe in time things can be good. but for now, the situation is unhealthy and as their mother, you need to protect your children and their well being

Yes my mum was depressed - well, looking back on it she was probably quite mentally ill. Unpredictable violent destructive outbursts then periods of calm when everyone was so pathetically grateful we'd all be lovely to everyone. Then she would lose it again and throw all my stuff out of the window/smash up the kitchen/break every plate in the house etc etc. My dad could have made lives easier for his children but he chose not to. I therefore have understanding, but little tolerance, of people with children who choose to live their lives in this way.

Ok, do you have somewhere you and the children could go? Family, close friends?

You are NOT responsible for HIS mood, HE is responsible for how HE feels and if it is out of his control he needs to accept he needs help not find someone to blame.

You do not need this, you need all the strength you have to care and protect your children. You can do this!!

Jazzicatz

I am so sorry (but unfortunately not altogether surprised) that he is still being awful towards you and the children. Such men rarely if ever change and it is not down to you to "fix" or "rescue" him.

Your children do not need such a man around in their lives. Why should they have to see all this crap at such a young age, bad enough at any age. They are taking all this in you know - do not kid yourself that they are not (not suggesting you are btw). You can clear up and make things "normal" again but you cannot yourself solve the underlying problems.

On a wider level what are you both teaching these children about relationships?. Would you actually want them to grow up thinking that smashing up the kitchen in a rage is somehow normal?. Of course not!!. A child's house should be a sanctuary, not a warzone.

You are only responsible for your own self and your children. Not him.

I would agree entirely with the other responses; I think you know what you have to do. Womens Aid would also be able to help you.

Blimey Enid, you'll have me in tears in a minute

He is projecting onto you by blaming you.

No, he is responsible for his own actions. You did not cause him to fly off in a rage.

You are only responsible for your own self and that of your children. You have to keep your children safe.

"I have just tried to speak to him and it culminated in an argument - he will not accept responsibility and is trying to blame me for his mood. Can't kick him out - it is his house. "

Of COURSE it becomes an argument. If he's depressed he isn't rational, he can't reasonably explain his behaviour, nor discuss it, and everyone and everything else is to blame. Don't argue, don't try to reason with him. If you can't kick him out then go yourself, and take the children. Just go,shake him up, and make it clear that he either goes to get treatment, or you don't come back.

In a few weeks time the 5 year old will be off from school - I expect school and nursery feel like a safe place for them right now. If you can't do something today can't you plan to stay with someone and give you and your children some space and somewhere safe to stay, when the school breaks up? It could really lead to much more when they are off.

But agree very much with the advice and what Kew put.

What Enid said.

As a child in this situation you have no choice or control in the matter -- you turn into a super-coper in the vain hope that if you're good enough, things will come right in your family. Needless to say it doesn't work, and you assume it's because you're not good enough, which follows you throughout your life.

A very destructive pattern to impose on a small child with a vulnerable developing mind. Yes, you are a victim too, but YOU HAVE A CHOICE and your kids don't.

Deal with it or get out. It is NOT okay, whatever excuses he may make for his behaviour.

I think you know what you must do deep down - but are not going to ever do it

I cannot afford to go anywhere - we have no money and he is saying that he will not move out. If I don't like it then I must go. How am I supposed to do that with literally nothing?

What frogs said.

You do not want to become super responsible for this man. It will not work and will only drag you and your children down with him.

What's caused his depressive state?. Does he drink, I ask this as alcohol also acts as a depressant.

I feel very sorry for the children, Really I do.

If you love them, show it. Move them away from this situation.

Get him to see he needs help. Then get the help.

When he's able to behave in a more reasonable manner, take the kids back. But until then, move them away from this distressing situation.

Women's Aid.

if these outbursts are heard by neighbors someone will call social services eventually.

You could lose your kids.

I think you need to go to some kind of rescue centre. You need to be strong for your children here you just need to do it - get away. YOU are the adult and they are vulnerable children, do you think these frights are doing them any good?

Womens Aid etc will be able to help you work out how to leave, regardless of whether you have any money etc

"I cannot afford to go anywhere - we have no money and he is saying that he will not move out. If I don't like it then I must go. How am I supposed to do that with literally nothing?"

Other poster's have already said, you can go to women's aid, or ask the council for re-homing.
Do you have any family? Won't your children's grandparents/aunts/uncles/godparents someone offer them somewhere to stay temporarily so you can get your dp sorted out?

I would take him up on his offer and go. Better to leave with your ownselves intact than to spend yet another night in his house of awfulness.

Having nothing is not in itself an absolute barrier to leaving. Don't use that as a reason for staying.

Act now, get on the phone to the council, Womens Aid - they can help you find a place of safety. You owe that much to your children.

im really sorry you're going through this, but it realyl ISNT a case of being able to afford to leave, you MUST leave, like people have suggested womens aid and other areas WILL help, you CAN NOT stay here with your children

The irony is I work within the field of domestic violence. I know all of the procedures and what I can do etc. I just don't think this warrants such an extreme reaction. and I certainly do not want to take away resources from those that really need the help. I I know I am being really crap I just feel overwhelmed with it all. Sometimes I just fucking hate him for doing this to me and my gorgeous boys.

what sort of reaction does it warrant then?
If you were a 'case' at work, what would you advise?

You have tried to discuss it with him. He turned it back on you.
He has basically told you to live with it or leave...

as well as yourself you must think about you absolutely MUST put your children first!, theyre old enough to understand and you also sound wise enough to know what you must do, you already know a lot about this kind of thing, so you will have contacts..you dont think its 'that' extreme..imagine what it feels like to your two tiny children

Right then you have made your decision. If you think this is something you can live around like the proverbial elephant in the living room. Just don't expect your children to thrive emotionally and physically from the decision you have made.

Jazz, this does require such a reaction.

Several adult members here have told you how this sort of behaviour affected their lives and their relationships.

Please, please reread their posts.

A person who does this and blames it on you is abusive.

Of course you have choices. The less you have now, the less you have to lose. Phone Women's Aid, phone a solicitor, call the police on him, go to a refuge, whatever it takes.

As kids we would have far preferred to live in a bedsit with a mother who chose to protect us than in a 4-bed detached house with a mother who stood by while we were all tyrannised and terrified by our father's violent moods.

By doing nothing you are effectively making a choice to put your dp before your children. One day they will understand the implications of your choice, and they won't forgive you.

so true frogs, so true

And KM makes a very salient point.

If I had a neighbour from whom I kept hearing disturbances like this, I would report them to SS.

I really would.

It is never good for children to be living in such circumstances.

I've been depressed myself, still am. But if my behaviour were causing me to lose control like that I'd get it treated OR leave myself rather than subject my kids to that.

Well I am obviously as rubbish a mother as I am a parter.

what you have to ask yourself is this - where is that line where he takes your dignity.

its diferent for everyone.

worse than that

much much worse

where is that line where you continually allow him to do these things and you know you have no dignity left, no pride just cowardlyness.

how bad does it have to get before you will use the resources - one punch, threaten, hair pull, shove?

you are abused, jazz.

and i think on some level you know that.

sadly, in abusive situations, there comes a point where you either chose to live with it or get out.

there are MANY, MANY posters on here who have been in abusive relationships.

Jazzicat,
I know, you think that "This doesn't happen to people like me"
Well it does, it is happening.

And your gorgeous boys don't deserve this.

Now you haven't answered any questions we've asked. You come on asking "what should I do", but don't want to follow the course of action we suggest.

Then why did you post? What do YOU think you should do?

If it was me, I'd be asking my family for help. Not saying "I'm a victim of domestic violence", but saying "dp has a health problem, I need to move the children away from him to encourage him to sort this out. Can you help us please?"

Can't you do that??

my mother was the same enid

my childhood spent under a fearful cloud

depression does not excuse it - your dp needs to get help

Yes you are all right. Thanks everyone.

You are not a rubbish partner - he is.

What else could you do? You could leave, issuing him with an ultimatum, that he either gets help or you and dc do not come back.

You're not a rubbish mother. You have the option to show your children that you value their needs and safety above all other priorities.

Take it, by whatever means.

I believe, albeit contravercially, that if you stay with men like this it makes you indeed a very bad Mother. I also speak from bitter bitter experience.

"The irony is I work within the field of domestic violence. I know all of the procedures and what I can do etc.

Even more reason to take a stand then against him.

"I just don't think this warrants such an extreme reaction. and I certainly do not want to take away resources from those that really need the help".

Okay so what to your mind does warrant an extreme reaction?. Hitting you and the kids?. You being in such a toxic environment have become conditioned to his rubbish, you are not yourself to blame for thinking like this. You will NOT be taking any resources away from other women.

I think as well it is only when you and the children are fully away from him will you realise how awful he actually is. He cares for no-one but himself.

"I know I am being really crap I just feel overwhelmed with it all. Sometimes I just fucking hate him for doing this to me and my gorgeous boys".

He has made you feel overwhelmed; women in domestic violence situations often feel overwhelmed. You see that these situations played out again and again in your working life. Don't just react and tidy up around him - ACT!!!. Don't let him do this to you all anymore. Take some power back woman!!!.

Don't let your boys potentially become physical and or mental abusers because of what they have seen as children. If you were ultimately to stay with him they will not thank you as adults for doing so. They will likely blame you instead for putting him before them. Other posters have posted along the same lines and they themselves saw this when they were children. Take heed of their words.

He

Also, by putting up with this unreasonable behaviour, you are NOT helping your dp.

He is obviously not happy with his life, he can't cope with it. He needs treatment. You must force him into some sort of treatment. Losing his family may be the spur he needs (it was for my dh).

My exDH was like this - mainly verbally and emotionally abusive, and the occasional shove or throwing things in my direction. I didn't class it as domestic violence as he wasn't really hitting me. I also made lots of excuses - young children are hard work - they were 3 and 1 at the time etc etc.

The turning point for me came when he did start hitting, kicking and punching me - not often initially, but the frequency gradually increased. When my 3 yr old DD pushed his drink over trying to get him to stop shouting at me and he shouted at her instead, I knew things weren't going to get any better.

I was fortunate in having a well paid job, and I made him leave, and I have never regretted it. He was a right pain for a long time - blaming me for taking his children away from him etc.

This was 10 years ago now, and I am now remarried to a wonderful man with a 20mth old, my 2 DDs are lovely well-adjusted and happy girls. They still see their father and have a good relationship with him - he has never been violent towards them. With hindsight I can see the relationship hadn't been healthy for a long time before we split - but I ignored the warning signs, even though I had tried to get him along to Relate.

Ironically he was very keen to go to Relate once we'd split up - but it was too late.

My advice would be that you do need to leave - he has no incentive to change if you stay and put up with it. I found it a great relief to be on my own and hadn't realised quite how stressed I had been tiptoeing around him.

jazzicatz, there's some excellent advice on here, wishing you strength, x

My mother is 54, married at 17. My father still bashes up the house and even bit her until she bled the other night.
I have no feelings for him but resent her for staying with him whilst he roared in temper, smashed up our house including my stereo that I had saved up for for 11 months when I was 11.
I am really sorry about your situation but feel you must get out, now.

clumsymum makes a good point - you're not helping yourself or your children by staying. Do you think you're helping your DP?

He has gone to work now - I am grateful to you all for sharing your advice and experiences with me. I know things have to change and it is down to me to do that. I have a job interview for a job away from here that I will take the boys. I cannot live like this anymore. The most important thing in my life are my boys and their well-being. I have to acknowledge that he will not change and is unwilling to accept reponsibility or that he needs help. Thanks again everyone.

All the best.

good for you!

and remember it's not just your boys' wellbeing - your health and happiness is crucial to your children's development too, xxx

To be honest I don't care about my dp anymore - I haven't for a long time. I just don't want to deprive my boys of their dad. As I said he is normally a fantastic father. Thnigs between him and I have not been good for a long time, but as a father he is great. But I don't want my ds's to believe that this is acceptable especially as he has not apologised.

Well done jazzicatz. An exit strategy is a good idea.

'as a father he is great. But I don't want my ds's to believe that this is acceptable especially as he has not apologised. '

a great father doesn't behave like this and blame it on his wife.

a great father gets help when he's ill and can't cope because he doesn't want it to impact on his kids lives in a negative way, or as little as possible.

his behaviour is not acceptable. you can't say 'sorry' and then continue to behave like this.

did you ask your boys when they were scared of him how great a father they thought he was. He will still be their father - he just needs to sort his shit out because if he doesn;t they will end up spending as much time apart from him as they possibly can as they get the opportunity when they get a bit older.

Yes I know - the children wanted me to take them to school this morning. Normally dp takes the elder boy. Ds1 wanted me to take him which is a first as he loves being with dp. I just think that we all lose our tempers sometimes, and it is important that children understand the consquences of this and that saying sorry and explaining can help children to understand how to deal with conflict. Dp hasn't and won't and I feel this is unacceptable. It is bad enough he has lost his rag - but an apology and explantion to me especially would go a long way. All dp could say was that it is my fault!

Jazzicatz, there are lots of people who work professionally with people affected by domestic violence who think 'it can't happen to me'. And are too embarrassed to seek help themselves - including some who have posted on this site.

It can happen to anyone - don't let pride stop you seeking help, sweetie.

I do hope you get out to a place of safety - for you and your children.

There is a big difference between just losing your temper, and bashing up the kitchen in a rage.

He needs to get help.

Jazzicatz - You should get out if you feel you or the children are in danger.

BUT, my dad was like this and never hit us and I would not have wanted him off the scene because of it.

He was lovely and cuddly and played with us. But he would lose his temper in a flash, shout and throw plates about. It was scary, and it has affected me. I really wish he had realised how bad it was and had got help. My parents ended up divorcing.

Now I have two young children of my own (5 and 2) and I can see how easy it is to become detached from your partner, and how easy it is to become depressed. My dh, who is a SAHD, often feels gloomy and can be very grumpy sometimes. He will always apologise for inflicting his mood on other people - not that that makes it OK!

Anyway, I'm just saying that your dh needs to realise that it is unacceptable, serious, and he is in danger of losing you and the kids if he doesn't get help. It's OK to have an exit strategy but could you not also consider that he could get help and become a happier person for himself and his family. Things might even improve between the two of you if you discuss it without blame and honestly. I know that I can get into a situation with my dh when he is stressed out where I think I could do without him. But when we talk over what's happening and why I find the friend I fell in love with in the first place is still there. Bringing up small children can just be v. stressful.

Although what my dad did was wrong, I love him dearly, and I think if my parents had been a bit older they might have sat down and talked about it instead of my mum unilaterally making the decison that the family was splitting up.

BTW I say this because although you originally said 'he bashed up the kitchen', you then said it was 'just a couple of broken plates and a cup'.

Although it is an aggressive act, and not a nice one, to me it does not necessarily mean he would hit anyone.

Fondant - thank you for your post. you have summed up what I was trying to say totally - but am too rubbish at. I cannot say I love him anymore as this has been going on for so long. But he is the father of my children and for that he will always be very special. I don't want to split my family up - but think it may be my only option.

He threw stuff about, which led to those items being broken. It could have been far worse, but it was enough to frightn the boys and the dog and the cat.

Mmm - that is pretty scary. It would probably be enough for me to call a time out! eg ask for time apart so you can both think about things.

Is there somewhere he could go for a few days (relatives)? Maybe then you could start talking about how you are feeling and how you see your future together.

I would def consider what the exit options are, but leave the door open to the possibility that he could confront his demons, get help, and change. It would make his life better, and help the kids, even if you end up splitting up!

you're not splitting up your family - he did that when he behaved as he did and then had no remorse

the status quo will only reinforce his belief that his behaviour is normal/acceptable

As I'm sure you know, violence can escalate. My mum's friend went through something similar (albeit alcohol-fuelled); it started off with breaking objects and one day ended in rape. When they finally divorced they were in family therapy for some time (the older child who was about 9 or 10 at the time was particularly affected).

Good luck, I'm sure you will find the strength to act positively for all of your sakes.

If you leave him now, then once you're apart he may be able to establish a good relationship with the DCs. If you stay with him, then things will inevitably escalate and the chances are your DCs will end up hating him.

It's so hard, isn't it. My mum is still with my dad, despite him being a violent brute. She denies how truly awful he is, and forgives him for his threats and bruises. I have suffered from eating problems and severe depression because of my parents behaviour. One brother beats up his wife, and the other is being treated for depression. All of us have suffered from problems with jobs/money, and in terms of relationships.
The Domestic Violence helpline is fantastic. They also understand that some people will not leave or cannot easily leave. They also said that there is little point in trying to diagnose someone who is violent. Unless they seek help for their behaviour, it will continue unabated and unchallenged.

Whatever else, please keep both yourself and your children safe!

jazzicatz - hope you are OK. What is the latest news? Have you decided on a course of action?

In answer to the OP - leave - what else?

Oh, I suppose you could ask him to leave.

Jazzi, I first read this article in Oprah magazine a few years ago. And it was so powerful I saved it for my own daughters to read.

The writer is the daughter of an emotionally abusive man with a temper like your husbands.

Her mother made excuses for him for years before leaving him.

Please read how this affected hers and her siblings lives and make a decision for you and your children:

allthewrongmen

sorry, try this one.

it's actually an excerpt from her book, If I am Missing or Dead, in honour of her sister, Amy, who was murdered by her boyfriend.

fromaletterfoundtapedunderAmyLatusdesk

women's aid virtual online refuge

Jazzi you've got to get out. I can see it would be easy to settle in again because his temper will ease BUT you know it's going to come back. You can't let anyone frighten your boys in this way. They don't deserve it and you need to make sure they don't suffer lasting effects.

Also you may well be doing your DP a favour because it may force him to get some kind of serious help for himself. I mean, why would he bother to get help if you and the boys stick around for him anyway?

Thanks all again for your kind messages. Found that dp had also bashed a hole in the downstairs loo which I have only noticed today. I am trying to get sorted out for my interview next week which will provide me with an exit strategy - if I don't get it then I have arranged to stay with my parents. He is still at his mothers and so far we haven't spoken.

Jazzi, if you work in the field presumably you are aware that you can apply for a non molestation injunction and an occupation order in order that you and the children are protected and that he can be forced to leave the house, irrespective of the fact that it's in his name.

If unsure, get yourself a free half hour with a family solicitor. All good family lawyers belong to www.resolution.org.uk