Well the title sums it up really.

My Dp and I have been together five years and have one DS who is two. Our relationship was initially 'fine' on the sexual front, I enjoyed it, he seemd to as well. After the first year or so things tapered of quite a bit but there were lots of things going on which were putting stress on Dp and I put it down to that.

We conceived our Ds unexpectedly, I am to this day very surprised as our sex life had almost come to a full stop at this point so it must have been meant to be!

Since Ds has been with us, we have only had sex twice in the last two years. Both times I have 'asked' him to and then wished I hadn't as it was obvious he wasn't really interested. I have asked him what the matter is and he says he is just not 'that sexual', he is tired, lots of different reasons but it all adds up to the same thing.I have asked/suggested couple counselling as i really want our reationship to be complete, nut the bottom line is he does not wish to go doen this road and thats that.

I know people will tell me to try various things to get our sex life 'back on track' but the fact is my dp and i are not sexually compatible, if it were not for DS we would probably have split amicably by now.

But we do have a beloved son and, having come from a broken home myself I am prepared to do what it takes to avoid this for my son. My dp is so good in every other way, i just feel I cannot justify leaving him for this, it feels so selfish and possibly fruitless.

But on the other hand, if i eventually seek some sexual contact outside the relationship, can I/should I live with that?
I just feel despairing imagining being essentially celibate for the next 20 or more years!!
What are peoples views on this, has anyone gone down this road?

Yes, been there with you! There is no answer really, but you know what the moral high-ground is. Sex means a lot to me but not so much to my h. It has been the main problem in our relationship from almost day 1.

I would never encourage you to have sex outside the home. I nearly did last year and am so glad I didn't. Even the 'nearly' makes me feel bad.

I do totally empathise with you though.

Thanks dior

Its just so hard, isn't it?
I used to really enjoy my sexuality and it made me feel good to give something worthwhile to another person, if that makes sense. I had some great partners whilst i was younger and free-er, and I always looked forward to settling down and taking things a step further (sexually/emotionally) with someone I really loved.

I actually envy women who say their dp's nag them for sex! At least they must desire them and like them in that way.

I feel sad for my dp too as i know he feels he is letting me down, but if he doesn't 'feel' it he doen't IYKWIM.

Oh dear.

There can be medical reasons for low libido. Stress and depression can effect it, as can various medicines. Low testosterone levels can also cause diminished sexual appetite. It really would be worth trying to get him to talk to his GP about.

Yes, I know what you mean about the DHs who nag for sex. When the wives moan, I feel like offering to swap husbands!

There is no easy answer.

Ask yourself:

if you did have sex with anyone else, would you feel the need to tell DH?

Do you have to be "in love" to have sex and would you possibly fall in love with the other man?

Could you cope with any guilt whilst staying in your marriage?

Contrary to what other MNs might say, and there has been Sooooooo much about this lately, I think that for SOME couples, this arrangement could work. It did for the aristocracy for centuries- men had mistresses but they stayed with their wives, and possibly vice-versa.

It depends on your personality- can you lead a double life or not?

To give you a bit about me- I had a very long relationship with a man- we weren't married, but sort-of lived together, as well as having our own places. he had sexual issues and after some time I found someone else. I saw him for a year. I never told the first man until it was over. I coped with that double life better than I ever thought possible. HOWEVER- we were not married and we did have a discussion before that along the lines that if i met anyone else, I should go for it- which i did.

The OM and i were never going anywhere - it was a friendship with sex and it suited us both at the time. I'm not proud of it- but as i say, I wasn't married and we had spoken of the chance of this happening.

The reason I am saying this is that you MIGHT be able to have affairs if you don't get emotionally involved and IF you can bear any guilt.

How would your DH feel if you did- would he want a divorce, or would he accept that type of marriage?

I don't think my DP would cope well at all if he found out i had been unfaithful so it would have to be completely disconnected from my 'real' life.

I cannot say for certain that I wouldn't fall in love with another man, if I were to have a sexual relationship.If I want to have sex with someone I usually like them an awful lot generally speaking, so that would be very hard.

But the alternatives are no better!!

a vibrator? [hmmm]

A vibrator isn't really the same though, is it.

no- sorry.

Maybe he needs medical help- is he psychologically impotent or has a health issue that has not been discovered?

If not, and you really feel you will never hit it off again, you should break free- life's too short.

Maybe talk to your DH about this all and see what he thinks about you having a lover with his consent, just to satisfy the sexual side of things? This does work for some couples.

Maybe just talking to him about it might make him realise how serious the problem is, kicking him into action, either to see why he has a low sex drive or deal with other issues that could be going on. Is he just not interested in sex at all or sex with you?

OMDB- I think its that he isnt that keen on sex with anyone, or, i have wondered if he has leanings in other directions, but frankly he is far too anxious about sex generally for him to ever (i would imagine) take a different direction.

I just don't know. to be honest, and it upsets him and disrupt our life when I try to tackle it.

thats why I've come to this line of thinking.

Do you think he could be gay then? There are lots of married men who are- who won't even admit it to themselves.

You need to talk to him about it. You need to discuss the possibility of you seeking sex outside your marriage (not in a heavy, threatening way, but just as a possibility). Because if one partner is unhappy about an aspect of the relationship it's no good the other partner saying, well I'M happy - a marriage is about both of you getting your needs met.

YOu see, frankly, if he doesn't want to have sex at all, why on earth would it be a problem for him if you have it with someone else?

I asked my h if I could get sex o/s the marriage if he wouldn't come near me. He said the marriage would be over if I did.

I've changed my name for this cos I KNOW i will get flamed, however, I couldn't not respond cos you're original post could have been written by me.

I adore and fancy my husband and we've got 2 small kids, very happy marriage, he's my best friend, my rock and we have lots of cuddles and kisses but NO sex at all.

We have talked it to death over and over again, and when it boils down to it, he just has no sex drive, not interested in sex and when I do sometimes hassle him into performing I can tell the whole thing is just like some chore for him and he can't wait for it to be over - which results in crap sex for me. So now, I've just given up.

Like you say, when we talk about it, he gets very upset and feels bad that he's letting me down and then it causes loads of tension for a couple of days but nothing ever changes.

I've asked him if he's gay - NO
I've asked him how he feels about me getting sex elsewhere - NO WAY
I've asked him if he thinks it's ok that I just live a celibate life now - 'well no, but don't know what i can do about it'

I have a very high sex drive, I love sex and being fancied and having passion in my life is very important to be confidence and self esteem and stress levels.

So, I have finally decided to get sex elsewhere. I've found a fuck buddy that I see every couple of weeks. He knows exactly what the score is, I'm using him for sex. He understands that he NEVER contacts me at home or rings me or emails me and my husband and family come first. I can't and won't offer him anything else other than 'a shag' and if he doesn't like it, we call it off.

I have to say it's working out very well. No hassles, I get great sex and an ego boost and feel wanted and sexy. I come home in a great mood and am relaxed and feeling good. I don't hassle hubby about sex, which makes him much more relaxed and in my eyes everyone's happy.

Of course, I feel guilty at times and I know my husband would be devastated if he found out BUT I also truly believe that if I wasn't doing this my marriage would have fallen apart by now cos the stress of having no sex was making me angry/frustrated/insecure/ratty/weepy and I was totally obsessing about it.

I hope my experience is of some interest to you. Sorry, it's turned into a mammoth read!

JGU - You won't get any flaming from me. These things always get found out though, and are you prepared to possibly lose your husband? I don't blame you though - I nearly did exactly the same last year.

I was in a relationship like this for nearly six years. We didn't have any children together but he was good to my existing DCs. He never wanted sex. I tried everything, it drove me insane and left me with very little confidence. I wouldn't have minded so much if it was obvious he fancied me but there was some physical reason why he couldn't have sex. But he didn't fancy me. We got on really well apart from that but it was always there festering away.

I would lie awake at night and wonder how he could lie next to me and not want to have sex. I blamed myself, I blamed him, I nagged, I backed off, I tried sexy underwear, I lost weight, I read books on how to spice things up/improve the relationship. I told myself that being with him was worth sacrificing my sex life and anyway, not many people get to have a good relationship AND good sex so maybe I should concentrate on the good bits.

It was torture because I was utterly besotted with him. He was the most beautiful man I'd ever met. And he didn't want any intimacy with me. I gave up initiating anything in the end because the gentle rejection that followed would be too much to bare.

I eventually ended up having an affair with someone from work. I'm not proud of the fact especially as it took me away from my family but it made me feel human again and that's what I needed. I don't see how my ex couldn't have known as I didn't hide anything (I didn't tell him but I was out a lot and sometimes all night) but he said nothing and never asked where I'd been. If he had I would have ended it straight away because, although the sex fulfilled a need, I wanted to have sex with my partner and noone else.

Ironically, the other man ended up wanting sex more than me! I'm not that highly sexed really - a couple of times a week would have been more than enough. It wasn't even the actual sex act I missed as much as the feeling of intimacy, flirting, desire, anticipation, sharing each other's pleasure. There was a whole side of him that I didn't know about and he wouldn't let me be part of.

I eventually ended the affair to concentrate on our relationship. He always said things would get better so I lived in hope. Anyway, it turned out he had been seeing other people (he always said he hadn't slept with them though) and I kept forgiving him but I finally saw the light and ended it when I found out for certain he had slept with someone else. So it wasn't that he didn't want sex , he just didn't want it with me. I'm single now but so much happier on my own and, as a result, a better mother. I'd rather be a 'family' but not if it means sacrificing my sanity.

I would think long and hard about whether you can live without having sex or whether you can take the strain of having sex outside of your relationship. Sex isn't everything but when it's not there at all and one of you isn't happy about that then it's the most soul-destroying feeling ever.

My heart goes out to you. I hope you can make a decision you're comfortable with.

Ok, here goes. We have been married a long time, ( over 20 years ) and for around ten of those years, we got out of the habit of having sex. Many and varied reasons, but at no time did we fall out of love with each other. Eventually it all became too much for me. I love him and so desperately wanted him to want me sexually, so I tackled him about it. At first he said he wasn't interested any longer, but when I told him very calmly, but seriously, that if that was true I couldn't go on living with him, knowing I wanted him but heh didn't want me, he said he did not want us to split. He agreed we could try to get that side of our marriage sorted. I accepted that it wouldn't get better overnight, but was willing to give it time. Things haven't always been perfect since then BUT we both really want things to be right. We have got to the stage where we are sexual several times a week ( sometimes just lots of very erotic touching and sometimes actual sex ) most weekend mornings are spent in bed ( very decadent!) and only this weekend he suggested to me that we should go away for a weekend and ( excuse the language) 'fuck for 48 hours'. He tells me that his feelings about me are more sexual than he can ever remember and we both realise that in some way we were both at fault for what happened. The thing is, we both wanted to sort this out and have both had to change in some ways. He is much better in the mornings, so we don't usually go beyond the caressing stage at night, but the mornings are hot! He acknowledges that I probably still have a higher sex drive and he is more than happy to accomodate that even when he isn't in the mood for himself.
I suppose it all depends how much you both want to keep your marriage together as to whether you decide to find a 'bit on the side'. Personally, that was not an option I wanted to consider. I did get hold of a book, ' The Sex Starved Marriage', which whilst not totally appropriate to our situation, was still helpful in a lot of ways. You can get it from W H Smith website.
I wish you luck whatever you decide to do. I am only sorry that we didn't sort out issues out sooner, but I am so very glad that we are back on track now.

Thank you all for your replies. it does help to know i ma not the only one going through this! the medias seems to be full of the opposite problem (ie wives'girlfriends gone off sex etc) but when its the other way round you don't get to hear much about it.

I never thought i would have to contemplate being unfaithful, I have always taken the stance that if you are not happy then get out-but its not that simple is it!

At the moment I think I will have to accept that its inevitable that eventually I will have an opportunity present itself, and that maybe i will take it. I can't accept having a celibate life. On the other hand I'm not going to actively seek something out.

Justgaveup, I don't see how anyone could judge you since your husband seems to have a rather crap attitude towards your needs....if he's not prepared to lift a finger to try and work on the problem, then why should you feel guilty for finding a "buddy"?

Thanks so much for the support - I've posted on here before about my problems in the past and had a load of abuse hurled at me about 'wrecking my children's lives' and 'just leave him'...nice to read this thread and know that there are people out there who realise it's not all black and white.

I can really relate to your situation. I have a 17m old who co-sleeps and DH has to bugger out of the bed halfway thorugh the night . Our love life is in a mess but we still really fancy each other. When I make the move DH says he doesn't just want a quick shag but a real picnic on my body so to speak. But there is so much to do in the house when DD sleeps and we just end up clearing up or DIY. How rubbish is that? LOL. DH must be a man of steel to reject some of my advances, it is so hard!

I really do think that when one partner will not have sex and will not make any effort to discuss or resolve the problem, the other partner would be justified in finding a fuckbuddy elsewhere. A person who is married/in a long term relationship but does not want sex is being selfish and dog-in-the-manger if he/she also forbids his/her partner from seeking sex elsewhere (if you're not using it, why do you object do someone else doing so).

I have often wondered this sort of thing. Is it really better to break up a marriage, than to find temporary solutions outside and keep the marriage intact. It always seems such a black and white issue on MN.

I think it depends on the individual marriage. In some cases, a refusal to have sex may indicate wider and worse problems in the marriage and it may break up anyway: if someone has a really low libido and is happy in him/herself to live a life without much if any sex, then that isn't wrong and doesn't stop them being decent people, good parents etcbut they should have the generosity of spirit to agree to their partners having sex outside the marriage subject to mutually agreed rules. SOmeone who won't agree to this or even discuss it is being profoundly selfish.

Our children learn how a healthy relationship should operate from their parents so really it depends on whether you would like your son to grow up to emulate the same relationship.

If your hubby would be happy for you to have sex with other people then I guess it could work for you but if you were planning to go behind his back then I dont think its a great idea - solve the problem between you or make plans to separate (there is no reason why he cant still be a great involved Dad is there)

I agree. I don't think the issue is black and white. ideally you go to therapy and try and sort it out. if not then you get your partner's agreement about getting sex elsewhere. If that too fails, i don't think you should have to break up an otherwise good relationship so what are your options other than condeming yourself to celibacy or getting sex outside the home?

However, i think kids can see when there's no passion in their parents relationship (speaking from expereince) and it can def affect their own relationships in a negative way down the line. So staying together isn't necessarily the right thing for anyone.

Asking him about seeking sex elsewhere may just be what's needed to make him take some kind of action.

I really do sympathise OP- i'm in a similar position, and it's very lonely and frustrating. 'Luckily' i'm gutted i'm not having sex with my husband, not that i'm not doing it in general, so at the moment i have no intention of having it elsewhere- i want HIM.

IMO, it may be better to split if nothing changes and you are thinking about cheating. One day your child will leave home, and it will just be you two there. It's not selfish to want a full relationship, and you possibly have the chance of that elsewhere. I'm sure there are many people here on great 2nd marriages.

Aree with wilywombat. You really need to talk to you dh about it. If sex means nothing to him and he really doesn't miss it, it is possible that - so long as you can avoid emotional involvement - he wouldn't mind if you sought sex elsewhere. On the other hand, the thought of it might wake him up a bit. Tread carefully though. Good luck.

Well I think there's nothing wrong with showing children that there are a variety of ways to live and conduct one's relationships, and that you can have extramarital sex, for instance, without it being a disaster. It's when people tell their children that heterosexual monogamy is the only real option but don't actually behave monogamously, that the children have problems.

i agree madamez- i wouldn't do it for 2 reasons though 1. I only want my DH
2. Before we had kids, when i was younger, DH encouraged me to explore my sexuality with regards to women, as i'm bisexual. I had a few encounters, but then had a very bad experience when some 'friends' found out, and told basically everyone we know that i was a slag, taking advantage of DH (then my DP) and all manner of horrible rumours and comments. It was so awful, i wouldn't want my kids involved in any of that.
I want my kids to know there are lots of ways to live, but i've chosen to be monogomous since i was about 19 / 20.

I have a very low sex drive, I thought it was possibly related to my crap marriage...
My H works abroad, and comes home a few weeks a year. I found out on his last visit that I have chlamydia, so obviously he has a 'buddy'.
I am still contemplating divorce but am ok with things as I have wanted out of the marriage for a while.

However, I got myself into a situation last week where lust nearly took over. I amazed myself at the feelings I have, that I really have not felt for years.

So what I am trying to say, is that I believe a low or zero sex drive may be a pointer to bigger relationship issues. So if you want to save your relationship, look at the causes, not the sypmtom, ie lack of libido.

Hi White tulips
really sorry to hear that you have chlamydia.
Whilst I might be contemplating being 'unfaithful' (at this point theoretically) I would never condone anyone putting their DP's health at risk.
I do indeed think my DP has 'issues'but I genuinely don't believe it is the state of our relationship, I think nit is a bit more deep seated than that, and sadly he has ,made it very clear thst he does not wish to explore or try to resolve these issues.
At the moment its the lack of physical intimacy itself that is eating away our relationship. I really do believe that for most people sex is a normal, healthy, drive that we feel we want to satisfy.

I wish you all the best, I hope you can find someone fantastic to rediscover that goddess within!

Thanks advice please! I didn't know I still had an inner goddess, but am quite pleased she is alive
I just don't want to rediscover the goddess with my H.
I am only saying this to give you something else to consider.

tbh if he is refusing to explore his issues, and they are causing you distress ie with the lack of intimacy, it is going to be difficult to continue long term for both of you. And you do need to think about the impact on your ds.

It all sounds sadly too familiar, to me, it is just how my problems started, and we are now at the point that we do not communicate at all about anything.
I wish you well, and hope that you can resolve things somehow.

adviceplease... I feel for you so much. I am in your position but I am many many years down the line. How you wrote your OP is how I would have done after a few years without intimacy. I hadn't at that stage contemplated anything outside the marriage but I did feel like you.

It is soul destroying. Yes, of course, it is lovemaking/sex that you miss but you yearn for the whole package... kissing, cuddling, touching and intimacy. Without that you shrivel up inside. I didn't feel like a proper woman.. I put on a lot of weight and I felt ugly and revolting. My DH is a very decent man and a good father but he can't 'do' physical. I 'buried' myself as a woman and concentrated on being a good mother and wife/friend to my DH. This was not the right thing to do because the feeling does not go away... I learned how to not think of it and convinced myself I could be celibate for the rest of my life. (I have always had a very high sex drive BTW so not easy!)

Fast forward many many years (too embarrassed to say how many...) and it came back and bit me on the bum. I lost an enormous amount of weight and suddenly liked how I looked and then I met somebody. Before I get flamed... I know it was wrong but if you have lived without intimacy for an extremely long time, whilst in the prime of your life, it hits you like a sledgehammer. It was the most uncontrollable thing I have ever had to deal with and there was no stopping the inevitable. The first time I had sex I cried and cried as I remembered what I had missed. And as it is still ongoing, I have to live with the guilt which is so very hard.

DH and I have been to Relate. I have told him chapter and verse but he thinks the affair has finished. He cannot and will not get any more help so I have to live with a celibate life with him.

Before anyone says 'leave him',the truth is, I don't really want to. I like and respect him and my, now older, DCs would be totally and utterly devestated. Without going into detail which might identify me, he is also very very reliant on me and I don't know if I could live with the guilt if I left him. We share common values and enjoy a reasonable life but I think the love on my part has died because it has been killed by years of constant rejection. BTW I don't try and initiate sex any more cos there is only so much rejection a person can take.

After all this rambling.. the things I want to say are...
All you MNers whose DHs fancy the pants off you - please revel in that.
I wish on MN that posters would realise life is not black and white but shades of grey too.
And Advicepleasemums... don't do what I did and leave it for a great number of years. Tackle the problem with your DH now. I wish I had.

namechangealso-just to say I think you are brave to post here- I know it's anon- but just to see it in black and white.

I know you must feel guilty- but you seem to have found a livable solution.

Namechange thank you for your post, it made me for you and for myself too as I can imagine myself in your position X years down the line.

There is a part of me that thinks it would be 'best' all round if I left Dp, but realistically you don't just walk out of one relationship and straight into another, happier one do you? I could end up single long term or in another relationship which fulfilled the sexual needs but was crap in other ways.

And of course my Ds, I have to consider him above all else.

I know that my Dp would never 'agree' to my seeking fulfilment with someone else, he would not be able to logically think well I don't want to have sex with therefore it is only fair to let her find someone else'. I think he would go absolutely mad. His ex left him for another man and he really lost it over that even though they were (by all accounts) miserable together.

Hence it would have to be a secret, with no real way of him finding out.

This is so difficult.

Namechange- how did your Dh react when he found out you were seeing someone? have you felt you might fallin love with the other man?

hls... thank you. A liveable solution maybe.. but its not a proper solution. I just think of it as a sticking plaster solution.

Adviceplease... you are right, you don't just walk out of one r'ship and into another happier one and sex isn't everything BUT it is one you are not getting it! (I am trying to laugh about it all... not easy )

I was so so surprised at my DHs reaction to him finding out by me telling him. He told me that he sort of guessed I was having an affair because I was happier . Now isn't that a strange thing to say. From the day I told him to this day... he has not asked one question about it. How long it lasted, what it meant or anything. He knows no details whatsoever.. for all he knows it could have been a one night stand. He doesn't seem to want to know. I imagine he feels he has no right to ask as he has rejected me physically for so long.

I stopped the affair and tried to put my marriage right with Relate. I have poured my heart out to DH. He knows what this all means to me. But... nothing has changed and the relationship has started again with other man. I don't know about falling in love TBH. There is a big emotional connection for sure. I feel so guilty even typing this as I am a very private person.

I have lived with this on my own totally for many many years and kept up a facade of having a healthy loving sexual relationship with DH. It was The Great Unspoken Subject for a long time - not good. And it is becoming that again cos I can't find a solution to this unsolveable problem.

advicepleasemums... have you anyone in RL you can talk to? If there is no-one you can talk about it with, friends/family etc., I feel for you greatly. Keeping up the facade is so very hard.

NCA: it sounds like your DH has no libido and is in fact content for you to satisfy yours elsewhere as long as his nose isn't rubbed in it. And a liveable solution to a problem is a good solution. It might be the best you'll get. There's no guarantee of being any happier if you a)try to force yourself into celibacy b) leave your DH c) try to force him into increasing his libido and all of those three sound worse than the option you have chosen.

I don't think there can be any one-size-fits-all solution to this kind of problem, any more than any other kind of problem, because there are always so many other factors involved (is the celibate partner controlling, mean, selfish? Did the partners deliberately choose a comfortable, practical relationship over a passionate one at some point and now find it isn't so good after all? Is the non-sex-wanting partner getting it elsewhere? Are there depression or other health issues going on?) Sometimes ending the relationship would be the best choice, sometimes it wouldn't. But it's always worth being aware of all the possible options.

I agree madamez but, and its a big but... I feel cheated. When I took my marriage vows I didn't sign up for this. I have taken the best option for me at the moment but its not really what I would have chosen for me. All those years ago on my wedding day, I had no idea I would have this problem. Maybe I was just idealistic and imagined everyone had a sex drive like me!

I can force myself into celibacy because I have. I have given up the best years of my life to be celibate, not through choice.

I better stop now... I am beginning to sound bitter!
Thank you madamez for your perspective on it.

namechangealso- would it help to accept that we can't get everything we want in one person- we all need our girlfriends etc for what we don't get from our marriage.

You could look at it like that- except you are getting something physical, rather than emotional.

I know how you feel- if you look back over the posts, you will see that I had a relationship like this but wasn't married.

Now, I've got the opposite- a DH who cares deeply for me and wants me, but I just don't fancy him any more...and he doesn't "ignite me" mentally or emotionally either. But I do care about him, and wouldn't want to split for the sake of the kids- although they are now adults.

Human relationships are just so complicated.

I hope you find happiness- maybe something will come along which you don't expect and you will find an answer.

I am sorry advicepleasemums - I have hijacked your thread a little!

hls.. yes you are right. But it is not in my nature to cheat or deceive and I don't really like myself for it.
And there also has to be somewhat of an emotional connection for the physical to happen. And there is.
I have read your story and sympathise. In a way it is a similar situation, becaue I also care greatly for my DH - I must do or I wouldnt still be here! The same for you maybe.
I do analyse and over-analyse at times cos as you say ... human relationships are so complicated.

I can only repeat that I am so glad I said something to my H when I did and that he, like me, decided that he wanted to get things right. I fell for you all because I do know what you are going through, though I don't know how it must be to be rejected whilst being told you can't get what you crave elsewhere. I really hope things work out for all of you because the thought of being so unhappy for the rest of your lives must be unbearable.