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I know I am a dreadful person. I am one of the ones who has a toxic sister. Without going into the details, she was really abusive to me when I had just had my DD, 3 years ago. She has spent the time since then slagging me off to anyone who will listen, I have spent it waiting for an apology.
She gave birth 2 days ago to her first child, prematurely, and had an emergency C section. Everyone else in my family is saying 'Oh poor XXX, what a hard time'. I just try to look neutral, but actually, I am glad she had a horrible time. The sad bitter part of me thinks that she will perhaps start to understand how difficult it is being a new mum, and she will maybe rethink her abusive behaviour towards me.
At what point do the people with toxic siblings become toxic themselves?
wow, thats pretty harsh. i hope that she and the baby are ok. you could be the bigger person here and offer your sister some support, but it doesnt sound like you want to.
Some people never change Blueskythinker, no matter what they go through in life, BUT you can be the better person, rise above it, and not become toxic yourself. Bad feelings will only eat up inside you and effect you negatively, not your sister, so don't give her that control over your feelings.
I really hope that the experience your sister has had does go some way to improving understanding between you.
May I sugest though, that if she is feeling ashamed of her behaviour towards you now, she will probably not 'approach' you first. Once you have calmed down a bit, do you thin you can find it in you to offer an olive branch first? Just a little baby gift and a kind word? If she is feeling sorry, she might be able to say it if she knows you are up for patching things up as well.
Bluesky .... so much hurt and anger between you both. I think you'd benefit from talking this through with someone because you don't want to be carrying this around with you through life.
I'm so sorry. You're not a bad person but it's good you recognise that it's not ideal to be feeling this way and that something is deeply wrong. She has obviously hurt you badly somehow and you need some help to process the feelings.
Also these things can so easily be passed onto the next generation if left unchecked. They probably came from the previous generation after all. It would be great to be the one to sort things out and stop them from being passed down the line.
"Bitterness is like cancer. It eats upon the host. But anger is like fire. It burns all clean." Maya Angelou
You have a right to be angry but to be bitter only hurts you, as you yourself acknowledge in your last sentence.
And there is a new person to love in your life, your innocent niece or nephew, who may have a battle ahead if prem & who in years to come, may appreciate having a supportive aunt who'll listen to them.
I can understand why you feel this way. She now understands how you felt. As nobody can understand until they've gone through it themselves. She perhaps will think about all the things she's said about you since the difficult birth of your child... . . .. .except she probably won't.
She said all those things about you because she has huge issues with you. I don't know what they are but the underlying seam is probably jealousy.
Now she has had a hard time means that she is very vulnerable and believe it or not, more vulnerable than you were because she is already addled with insecurity and frailty.
You are not a bad person for feeling like you are glad she now knows how hard it can be. But this could be an opportunity for you two to be close and supportive? You could offer your unconditional support and an ear. A new mum would really really appreciate that.
But I don't know the full extent of your sibling history of course. The negativity could go back a long way... . . .But try to get something positive out of this.
I know, I know, I am bitter and spiteful, and that is why I can't tell anyone in RL. I genuinely feel confused and upset by my depth of venom towards her - I think it is because she capitalised on such a vulnerable time for me to be so vicious towards me.
I have bought a pressie and card for her & the baby, but have been too scared to go round to her house, as her new husband has made it pretty clear to the rest of my family that he hates me (without having met me) due to my sister ranting on about me for the last 3 years. I suppose I could always post it.
I can never imagine getting over the hurt and betrayal I felt, so although I know I should offer an olive branch, it just feels impossible.
Blueskythinker, as a mother who has had a premature birth, I believe your sister would would probably welcome your help and compassion right now. I'm not getting at you but nothing changes a person more than when their child is in trouble. You don't know how heartbreaking it is to see your baby in SCBU. Hand out the olive branch and if she doesn't take it , you're the better person. If she does, then you still are.
Very briefly, I have supported my sister financially for several years - she lived with me rent & bill free for 6 months, then moved into a rental house I owned for 2 1/2 years, at a massively reduced rate - (didn't even cover the mortgage, but I didn't mind, out of family loyalty).
I helped her to buy a house, and she moved out of my rental house - and left it in a complete mess. I have been in property rental for 13 years, and have never had one of my properties left like this - it was horrendous. I phoned her and asked her if she could help me to clean it. My DD was a few weeks old, I had had a very traumatic birth, and had severe injuries from it. Instead she arrived at my house and screamed at me to go fuck myself.
Since then, she has ranted at anyone who will listen about how dreadfully I behaved towards her. She is not above inventing complete lies in order to justify her dislike towards me.
I've just re-read my rather long message below - I'm sorry if I sound like the bringer of doom, but I hope my words give you a useful perspective. Good luck - MrsTHxx
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Wow, Blueskythinker. What a complicated situation. Why do you think she's been so awful to you in the past? Has there been a long-term problem between you which has never been resolved (i.e. something that started before you had a baby 3 yrs ago)? It sounds as though there may possibly be something which she's aware of, even if you're not. It's very rare that such animosity springs out of nowhere, and it's even possible that you may have done something innocently which may have hurt her a great deal.
As for your BIL, he sounds like a total moron. Is he totally incapable of independent thought? His responsibility (were he mature enough) is to play a conciliatory role - supporting his wife within reason, of course, but ultimately aiming to bring you both together for a thoughtful heart-to-heart. He deserves an almighty slap for inflaming the situation. I only hope his LO's don't learn from him.
Think about your life in 30 years' time. Children grown up and separated from their cousins because of silly bickering between their folks. Not only that, but your children will end up falling out with people they love and have no understanding of how to handle it maturely - because YOU chose not to teach them how to do it when you had a chance. Not only that, but imagine that you and your very own flesh-and-blood sister are STILL not on speaking terms 30 years on, and probably can't quite recall why. Is that really what you want for your lives?
At the moment you have the luxury of imagining your lives 30 years on. But what if you don't live that long? I have lost 3 members of my immediate family (we used to be 6) - two of them died aged 56 and 35. I can tell you now, hon, that when people die, that is it. No second chances. And no matter how pure the hatred you feel towards your sister today, if she passes away first, you will grieve and grieve and you will never be able to mend that relationship. I tell you this from personal experience.
I also had a very difficult birth 17 months ago, which left me in lots of pain for the first nine months. In a couple of weeks I'll be having an op which I hope will finally sort me out for good. My body has been such a source of stress and trauma for me as a result of that birth, and if I'd had a sister (only brothers, no mum around anymore either) who had come around and given me any kind of support it would have meant the world to me.
I hope you can see now that this is not just a straightforward falling out between two people, but an intense and complex situation which can potentially have a lasting impact - for good or bad - on you, your sister and even your own children. I know things have been AWFUL and in one sense why on earth should you be the one to make the first move? But on the other hand - what an opportunity. Are you really going to let it slip by?
First of all - is she the younger sister because she sounds very immature? I've put up my own younger sister sometimes, even though we fought like cat and dog, out of family loyalty although she's never been so disrespectful as your sister sounds. Has she child before you did? Maybe she didn't know how hard the birth is on a mother and being silly and immature, screamed at you (but I'm sure she'd understand now). I can honestly see how you might feel like she's got her comeuppance but you have to realise that there's a little baby at the centre of this. No matter how badly your sister has acted towards to you, she loves that baby so strongly and needs every bit of support she can get. That's my two-pence worth anyway. I wish you all the best..
Bluesky, I feel like I came down really hard on you - I'm sorry! I just believe it's SO important for families to go the extra 1000 miles to keep their relationships strong. Having said that, I should probably call my brothers as it's been a while...
I had a thought - as there's clearly a huge fortress between you. How about taking a leaf out of the book of whoever got the Northern Ireland discussions going? They took politicians from both sides on a golfing trip, and banned them from discussing anything political all weekend. As a result they got to know each other and realised that they had things in common, they were actually jolly nice chaps, etc etc.
Is there some way you could do your own version of this? I think the key is to make it an activity of some sort so there's a talking point and you're occupied doing or making something. I realise that this is very difficult with your sister's baby in SCBU, but it could be something simple that you could do indoors. The suggestion will certainly surprise her, and though she may make excuses at first, hopefully she'll (eventually) agree.
Whatever you do I send you lots of blessings and good karma and I really hope and pray that you both learn to appreciate each other soon.
bluesky, I don't understand why people are so obsessed with forgiveness and being nice to people who are shitty to you. I completely understand why you are so resentful. You were treated like shit by your sister when you had your baby and now everyone is making a fuss of her - you feel that no one gets it how unfair she was to you. I understand completely.
If it were me I would never speak to her or have anything to do with her again - I am very patient but once someone pushes me beyond my limits that is the end of it. Something breaks inside you. And for me, laying rightful blame at that person's feet helps me to heal - not blindly forgiving them - especially when they are not sorry. If they are sorry it is a whole different ball game. But they have to mean it.
Forgiving people who are not sorry is like saying come on, slap me again. It turns you into a doormat. Your resentment will protect you.
Anorak - it is incredibly painful when people treat us as badly as you appear to have been treated. You are protecting yourself very well by cutting people off when they have hurt you. But it's at a price. You quite possibly don't realise what that price is. I'll give you an analogy, and my thoughts are based on my experience of choosing to forgive my father a great, great deal.
You know the old adage about how a caterpillar needs to struggle through a chrysalis in order to build the strength to become a butterfly? And if someone helps it open the chrysalis, it dies?
Of course we humans can live very well by avoiding those who hurt us, but by facing them and doing the hardest thing - forgiving and choosing to make that relationship grow deeper - we can live far better.
There's no such thing as 'blind' forgiveness. People who choose to forgive are the ones who feel the pain the most keenly, whose insight is the deepest - because it is impossible to forgive if we numb ourselves against pain in the way you appear to have done. The only way you can possibly experience that kind of insight and depth of self is if you ever decide to do it yourself. Otherwise it is you who will always be blind one.
That's all very worthy MrsTH and I am all for the road less travelled approach if it is ever going to do any good and the person in question is ever going to respond to your kindness.
But if they don't and just remain a tosser then you are lying down and inviting them to walk all over you. That's not an experience that builds your insight and depth of self - it's more the kind of thing that turns you into a downtrodden and broken-spirited bully's victim.
i don't think blood is thicker than water- for me that is. people get two chances with me. after that they've shit it. and i mean it. i just don't entertain them family or no.
Mmm...what a positive contribution, Sandcastles. There's no such thing as a good or bad person...just people who do good and shitty things from time to time. Haven't you ever hurt someone in the past? Or thought badly of someone? You may try to justify your past actions or say that what Bluesky wrote is worse than anything you've done, but how would you quantify that?
The fact is that Bluesky has started this thread because she's NOT happy with the way things are. She realises that she's a good person with shitty feelings and she's not happy to stay that way. So who do you think you are assassinating her character like some imaginary Little Miss Perfect?
Anorak, it sounds like you've been through some awful experiences and I don't know what they are. All I can say is that sadly these things never leave us until we face them.
When I chose to forgive my father I never told him. He was too proud to listen to that sort of thing. But I did it internally, and it transformed our relationship, it made me stronger, and it meant that when he died my grief was not complicated by regrets, bitterness, anger, or any other feelings related to past hurts.
Some relationships are far too painful - and in some extreme cases, too dangerous - to revisit in person for the sake of closure. However, even in those cases, forgiveness can happen without the other person being around - it is essential for the 'victim' as you put it to heal.
You mentioned that you find your approach is the best way to heal. You may possibly discover much later in life that in fact the wound is still there but it's just been latent for many years. This is not psychobabble or any other sort of bullshit. If you ignore a physical wound it will most likely become infected and get worse over time. Our bodies and minds often work in similar ways.
Unforgiveness (believe it or not) is a way of imprisoning ourselves because it's ultimately an avoidance strategy. I really hope at some point for your sake and for the sake of those who depend on you, that you are able to free yourself from whatever's happened to you.
Anyway, this is Bluesky's thread, I don't want to take lots of attention away from her issue.
It would be easier if people could segment their feelinhs and make clear decisions, wouldn't it? I think BST probably would struggle with an absolute
Bluesky, I understand you feelings and your confusion. I t isn't as easy as cutting a stranger out of your life, is it? Your sister for better or worse as been around you for a long time, you have all sorts of unresolved issues with her.
You have a choice.
You recognise this relationship can go nowhere positive and distance yourself further, albeit politely and respectifully to the rest of your family. or You hold on to the hope of reconciliation and work towards that. If that is what you'd rather then look for ways to retain your dignity and strength and find a way to regain the relationship you used to have when you were both younger.
YANBU for feeling the way you do, what you do about it is up to you.
Your not a dreadful person. You are just very angry and with unrequited anger comes the need for revenge. And the reason you are angry is because you are hurt by your sisters behaviour. I'm sure this is not the first time she has behaved this way towards you?
I too have said dreadful things like the above about my sister and family, when I felt that no one validated my feelings of anger towards them. And it is and was justified anger.
Come on to the stately homes thread... we're good at validating peoples experiences, no matter how 'unjustified' their feelings may seem to those who have no experience of the toxic family member.
I'm also guessing...tho you may not agree, wish to acknowledge or even think about...your mother and father may have helped make your sister this way? And you the way you are? And I'm guessing the huge anger comes because your mum and dad did not validate your feelings/listen to you or just side with your sister? You don't have to talk further on this one. Just know that your feelings and experience are just as valid as those of your sister.
This sounds like it could be the perfect time to build a few bridges with your sister. The past will always have happened, no one can change that but you now have the opportunity to accept a new member into your family.
Hate towards a family member will eat you up inside, you either need to try to find some common ground or you will have to walk away from her, better to have someone out there for you rather then against you though.
She has just gone through a very frightening experience, offer her an ear, I am sure she would prefer that you got on.
Just read messages above...you really need the stately homes thread!!!
Forgiveness/olive branch = sweeping under carpet.
NOT HEALTHY!!
That saying about rightous anger is a good one...
You could try talking to her with relate(?) or a councellor but she does not sound the type to listen to your side of the story and you could end up more damaged and hurting than you are now...
And BST is NOT a bad person...this is just ONE individual she has a problem with, not just a random woman off the street. No its not a good thing to wish bad things on people...but it does happen when you have suffered at the hands of that person. And I'm sure BST feelings do NOT extend as far as the baby.
I have followed the forgive and forget line of thought for most of my life, but there are people in this world capable to cause such hurt and damage if you continue giving them the opportunity.
I have handed the olive branch to my now ExMIL and xSIL so many times that I had even had to had couseling to be able to deal with the beating they gave me with the same olive branch.
Despite my years long "forgive and forget" aproach, I have never felt more at peace than at the moment I decided to give up and get them out of my life. They can't hurt me anymore.
I'm with Anorak in this. When you are dealing with a really bad situation removing yourself from the situation is actually your best bet.
I think there is a time when youcan forgivefor your own sake - but this does not have to mean that you try to stay friends. You can forgive without telling them, to end bitterness and bad feelings but you can still decide that any relationship between you is toxic.
Your sister sounds dreadful. I'm with custardo- send the present/card then leave it. If she's grown up realised she behaved appallingly she'll hopefully follow that up.If she doesn't reply then there's not much you can do with her.
MrsThierryHenry, extremely insightful & mature post (about regrets once people die). I think if everyone felt/acted like that the world would be a better place, not always easy in the moment though.
Blueskythinker, I do hope you manage to make peace about the situation in one way or another.
Very briefly, I have supported my sister financially for several years - she lived with me rent & bill free for 6 months, then moved into a rental house I owned for 2 1/2 years, at a massively reduced rate - (didn't even cover the mortgage, but I didn't mind, out of family loyalty).
I helped her to buy a house, and she moved out of my rental house - and left it in a complete mess. I have been in property rental for 13 years, and have never had one of my properties left like this - it was horrendous. I phoned her and asked her if she could help me to clean it. My DD was a few weeks old, I had had a very traumatic birth, and had severe injuries from it. Instead she arrived at my house and screamed at me to go fuck myself. hmm
Since then, she has ranted at anyone who will listen about how dreadfully I behaved towards her. She is not above inventing complete lies in order to justify her dislike towards me. Blue Sky
Was wondering exactly why you did help her in such a manner, were you obligated to as well by your parents putting pressure on you to do so?. Did you for instance have your parents saying, "oh we don't know what to do with her?". Were you told by them to "rescue" her and "help her out"?. Your sister seems like both an irresponsible and very troubled individual but you are not her responsibility ultimately. I think she threw your kindnesses back in your face and you yourself learnt a very harsh lesson in that enabling does not help the one being helped.
I reckon as well she has always been like this and both your parents have played a large part in shaping her behaviours as well. How are they towards her and you?. You're seemingly the scapegoat for all the toxic stuff in your family aren't you?. Children now adults of toxic families often have defined roles. The "stately homes" thread would be a good one for you to read and even post on. You will get support there.
I would also suggest counselling for your own self as you need a neutral person to help you with the understandable anger and resentment you feel.
TBH I would distance myself completely from all of them including your parents (do they also run around after your sister as well?) and concentrate instead on making your own family life a good one. Living well is the best revenge.
You would not let a friend treat you in such a manner so why are family members any different?. They should receive no special consideration just because they are "family".
On the whole, I agree with Anorak - except that because you're writing this, and have bought a present, card etc - maybe you aren't quite ready to cut her off completely.
I'd send the card, maybe with some kind of message about new beginnings, and leave the rest to her. I know I didn't grow up until I became a mother (I was never as foul as your sister sounds, just shallow, immature and self-absorbed) and maybe, maybe she will. Sounds like you want to give her that last chance.
I'm not surprised you feel resentful and angry at all! And if you can't admit those feelings on an anonymous website, where the hell can you?
You could of course offer the olive branch, offer to help her when she's in pain etc but always keep yourself emotionally distant. If she improves physically, perhaps then you can withdraw again, guilt free, knowing you've done the right thing but by withdrawing you won't expose yourself to more hurt.
Her past behaviour sounds terrible. She sounds like a nutter. And best avoided once all the drama and pain of her birth has subsided a bit. Don't kick her when she's down. Don't kick her at all but make sure you look after yourself. Never trust her again.
Have you told your parents what happened when you asked her to clean up? Obviously don't tell them now but maybe in a few years you could enlighten them.
Don't listen to the moos on here telling you you are toxic and nasty. You've bought a gift for pity's sake. That's more than she'd get from me.
they will die But you cannot pretend things are ok so you do not feel bad when they do.
You do not have to carry anger aroudn You can understand that at present being involved in each others life is not making either of you happy, infact it is very damaging.
And not having everyone tell you anything about the sibling is a really good move - that way you will not get het up by things they do.
You are not dreadful and to the people saying bad things about you, well when you've walked a mile blah blah...
To OP you are not being horrid being glad she had a bad time, all you are doing is maybe being a bit over zealous in your appreciation of the karma at work here. I think 'glad' was a badly chosen word to describe your feeling of what goes around comes around, as you sow so shall you reap etc.
Oh and I am sure I would feel this. Anyone who has repeatedly been shit on from a great height, especially from a family member, would surely feel that at least 'now they know what its like'.
Have checked in and am touched by all the kind words (and the sharp ones too). Thanks, I will visit the stately homes thread.
It was interesting to think about the link between my mother and my sister's behaviour - basically my mother indirectly encouraged my sister to behave in the way she did - my Mum had been acting a bit huffily towards me(I think the applecart gets a bit rocked when a daughter becomes a mum - but that's for another thread - everything is fine between Mum & me now), but she went to XXXX and moaned to her about me. I think XXX saw it as an opportunity to vent her jealousy towards me - kick me when I'm down so to speak. XXX then went running to my Mum about how dreadful I'd been, and there was a bit of a coven going on for a while.
And another salient point I think is that you don't wish her ill, I believe the reason you are glad she has experienced this difficulty is purely because you know she needs to learn what these things are like for you and other people so that she will treat them more kindly in future -and she doesn't appear to be empathic enough to learn it without personal experience.
I keep thinking that if you had posted that your husband had treated you this way everyone would be calling you a fool for putting up with it, calling him every name under the sun, and urging you to break up your family to get rid of him. Yet lots of people think you should put up with it from a sister, and I don't understand why.
Bluesky.. i'm sorry your Sis was such a shit and i really don't blame you for the way you feel.. different sitution but there was a LOT of resentment between my brother and I for a long time, i do know how you feel.. it took me becoming a parent and him getting wed to patch things up.
Send her the card and the present and if you think there may be the slightest chance of building bridges between you - maybe just put something like "you know where i am if you need me" in there and leave it with her.
I have a feeling the shock of her own traumatic birth and new motherhood may make her stance towards you change with her perspective.
Well, stop waiting for an apology and get on with something else. . If you can feel so pleased that someone has had an emergency c and a premature baby, your thoughts are corrosive.
You need to think about counselling, or psychotherapy. It really would help you. Carrying such hate with you will affect everything you do, and maybe even your children's lives.
There are two people in every relationship- and if you think your sister is "toxic" then that could not be so without YOU behaving in certain ways when you were younger, feeding or encouraging that toxicity. Even if you didn't know it or do it deliberately.
Try to forgive. You will be the loser if you carry this with you- get some professional help.
irisheyes, how can you justify name calling and nastiness like that when you are chastising a poster for far less nasty actions?
op merely feels this way and has come on to lovely anonymous MN to vent some very valid frustrations with what sounds like a vicious sister.
you're the one out of line here and i think ou owe op an apology for those comments.
Bluesky, for what it's worth i have no siblings myself so can't imagine how hard this must be but i do know SIL id so toxi, selfish, violent and down right nasty both dp and his brother and father have washed their hands of her. they've given her 200 chances each and she's spat in their faces, beat FIL up and dp had to kick her out of his car recently. she's had horrible things happen to her and i'm sorry to say it's only mad her more of a bitch, despite buckets of sympathy, understanding and forgivness from all the family.
some people aren't worth guilt tbh, they're toxic and will always remain so, the only way for you not to become toxic too is to keep your distance.
i think the posters advocating olive branches etc are well meaning but possibly haven't experianced the depths of nastiness and abuse that some people are capable of
Returning to the OP... I think it's so, so true as Ally said below, that people who have not experienced real family dysfunction will say things like "you must forgive and try to have a relationship because they're family" - and that's a very valid thought of course - but those of us who have experienced it know that sometimes for your sanity it's not worth it. Toxic family members often rely on the fact that you will be expected to put up with them because they're family. But sometimes their behaviour just goes too far.
I've had a very difficult time with my sister though I'm glad to say things are slightly better at the moment - largely I think because I've withdrawn from being a mother figure to her as much as I can. OTOH, I've cut off contact with my dad completely (after similar toxicity) and I'm not sorry. Only you can decide how to proceed with this but I do want to say I know about feelings like what you describe and I think they're totally understandable. And I admire you for listening to these feelings and trying to understand them. To me that says you're not becoming "toxic" yourself. You have an understandable emotional reaction and you acknowledge it and assess it and ask for support, instead of channelling it into unacceptable behaviour. That's the adult thing to do IMO.
Send the card and the present and then move on, you have made the gesture and the ballis in her court. It is sad when a parent encourages behaviour, DH's father is constantly bailing out his daughter icnluding the £25k loan that she and her husband took out by forging DH's signature which we were excpected to pay until we got a solicior involved.
My sister shat on me about once a year. I forgave her every time until four years ago when she tried her level best to split me and DH up and manipulated my vulnerable teenage DD too.
Life as been sooo much better since I cut the tie with her. You cannot chose your relatives but you can your friends.
My sister and I had a terrible year, she was very unreasonable, her DH was more unreasonable, and I was little unreasonable. We clashed and clashed and I slagged her off, and she probably slagged me off.
Then the second she had her babies 12 weeks early, all the animosity was gone, and we realised how much we love each other. I wouldn't wish any bad on her, despite all the heartache of the last year, and she's become very protective of me.
Try to use it as an opportunity to come closer together. Discuss your experiences and allow the kids to be proper cousins.
I wouldn't change my sister or her babies for the world, and I'd be distraught if ANYTHING happened to them. I know she feels the same about me and mine.
Making "peace" with a toxic sibling as well can in many cases come back to haunt the peacemaker. Many toxic people can use a peace offering as yet another stick to beat the peacemaker with as ultiamtely the toxic person is not interested in making amends. They likely think as well they have done nothing wrong so no need to apologise. People who have not survived a toxic family enviromnment or deeply divided family dysfunction can understandbly find this concept hard to fathom saying things like "forgive and forget", "she's your sister/mother" etc.
This whole situation that BlueSky talks about goes far deeper than expressing to her own self a sentiment about sister having a hard time at birth. I do not think though her sister will change her attitude because she is now a Mum herself.
It does not necessarily makes BlueSky toxic - far from it. She is herself someone who is finally realising she has herself come from a toxic family where sibling rivalries got out of hand because of the way it was handled by their parents. BlueSky has spent the last three years waiting for an apology from her sister. I think BlueSky will never get this apology because her sister likely feels she has done nothing wrong.
The only thing BlueSky can do is to help her own self (counselling can be helpful)and distance herself entirely from these people including her parents who have gone some considerable way as well to making her sister the person she is.
BlueSky - you write yourself that your own Mother encouraged her to act like this; she certainly did nothing to prevent this happening. BTW I would not let your Dad off the hook either as he did not curb his wife's actions. He was a bystander.
A friend of mine has a toxic sister. She suffered years of verbal, emotional and sometimes physical abuse. Now she has nothing to do with her.
Bluesky, if someone spoke to me and behaved towards me thew way your sister has to you then I would turn my back on them. family of not family. Have some respect for yourself and don't be a doormat.
She's a shit and is playing the 'family' card to carry on behaving like a shit.
Well, positive contrabution or not, she asked a Q & I answered it!
Some on here will know that I have a toxic mother, we haven't spoken for 16 years. She wished horrible things on me, did horrible things to me...
BUT in the end, I WOULD NOT wish a difficult pregnancy, nor traumatic birth, nor premature baby on her, nor anyone! And especially not after going through it myself!
Because that would make me as bad as her & regardless of what she has put me through, I am a better person than her until I start treating her & wishing on her awful circumstances.
I am not suggesting forgiveness, because I myself cannot forgive, but to be glad that her baby is here prematurely, under traumatic circumstances is, in my mind worse than her having left a rental preoperty in a mess!
The OP cannot I feel, bitch about her toxic sister after saying she is glad that her & her baby suffered during & after the birth!
to the OP I have a very angry and venomous sister who has made me the scapegoat for every thing wrong in her home life. I have spent 20 years endlessly offering olive branches, helping and supporting her. Everytime it results in a few weeks or months of 'normality' until she has a bad day and then I become the target for all her venom and frustration. People are telling you to forgive or walk away. My experience is that there is a middle way. I have just emotionally disengaged from her. I can meet with her, exchange gifts but i have let go of my anger and upset and hurt and by doing that I have taken away her ability to hurt me. She may choose to send me a vicious email - i delete it. She may choose top phone me to spit fury at me - I hang up. I am cordial with her but as soon as she turns I just walk away. As I am no longer responding she has gradually stopped attcking as it seems my reaction was the very thing she craved. Now she no longer gets it our relationship is low key and boring - which for us is much healthier. It means there is no family split - no difficulty at family gatherings etc. I have actually quietly left a couple when she has started looking for a fight. Mostly it has been great for me to take control of my feeling and regain some sense of control and some sense of dignity. She hasn't changed but i have choosen not to give her the power to upset me. You need to just accept that that is who she is. If she wants to respond civily to you then you can embrace it. If not just treat her with cutesy but no expectation of friendliness or kindness. Take away her ammunition and you can let go of your own anger. to be wishing her and her baby ill health and misfortune is not a good thing for you. You can't let yourself be sullied by your own resentment to her. Or she has won - surely?
Feelings like this are normal in some abused people. I have wished much much worse things on my own sister and mother. However acting on those feelings is not okay.
OP has done NO HARM to her sister. It is the other way round!
surely there is a difference between wishing someone ill and hoping that they finally understand you? ("The sad bitter part of me thinks that she will perhaps start to understand how difficult it is being a new mum, and she will maybe rethink her abusive behaviour towards me. ")
I have a toxic sister who is about to give birth. I hope she has a perfect delivery and no troubles afterwards but i also hope that she finally understands me and my choices and sees how she has hurt me.
Like anorak said - if this had been a husband or friend would the responses have been the same? why do we let people treat us badly because we share a parent??
if i were you (and I will be in a couple of weeks) i would send the gift. though i'm doing it for my parents rather than my sister. I will keep up appearances for their sake. she;s not worht ruining my relationship with them.
send a card and maintain dignified no contact. obviously this is a fraught relationship. you need to protect yourself and not be drawn into any further potential altercations
try to distinguish her newbaby from your sister an adult woman. that baby is neutral and a NB who has no history with you
Wow, I have been spending the day in the garden, not realising I was getting up people's noses! MN has deleted IE's messages, so I am afraid I am oblivious to what was said.
I haven't wished my sister (or her baby) ill, I just hope that she will now have an understanding of how awfully she behaved, at that particular time. If she had behaved in that way at any other time, I would have been severely pissed off, but this was only a few weeks after my DC was born, and I was physically very unwell, on top of the usual shock one is left with after having their 1st baby, so the whole circumstances were somewhat aggravated. Actually, the baby is doing fine, and was just over three weeks early. I suspect that the premature labour may have had more to do with my sister smoking throughout her pregnancy than any feelings I have towards her (ducks, for when any smokers read this!)
I know that my sister is pretty unlikely to have a change of view, she is the queen of denial and self justification. I did try to sort things out with her at one stage, but I said to her that part of any conciliation needed to involve her recognising the impact that her actions had on me - I got a predictable response.
I know that my feelings are wrong, and corrosive, but they are there nonetheless. For those who posted indignant replies - do you never have Bad Thoughts? If you don't, you are fortunate, and if you do, but find ways of dealing with them, I applaud you.
Bluesky - sorry you have been getting random messages - I hope they weren't too cross.
Atilla - My Dad isn't around.
All others: thanks for your comments - I clearly have some work to do.
we're good at validating peoples experiences, no matter how 'unjustified' their feelings may seem to those who have no experience of the toxic family member.
at his 
beety
