and i feel really bad about it because she is a lovely person. We've been pals for a couple of years now btw.
She is always late for our meet-ups, which I wouldn't mind if it weren't for my toddler who I have to keep hanging around whining because he's fed up waiting. Also, she is just so unorganised it is infuriating. You know, one of these people who is always in a flap because they haven't got things togethter in advance. It drives me nuts! I mean, other friends I have have different ways of doing things to me, but we seem to be chalk and cheese and I'm wondering what to do because it stresses me out seeing her, yet I really really like her!?

If she's always late, why not arrive later yourself?

I sound like your friend, with the best intentions I always seem to be running late dragging my DD behind me

Tell her to arrive 30 minutes before you want her to turn up and count your blessings that you are so organised (I wish I was)

I have a friend just like this but I have years of practice in dealing with it because my sister is like this too.

If I make arrangements with her I assume she will be mega late so I keep it all very fluid and have a backup plan. So if we have agreed to meet up I will plan to do something else first and just agree that we will keep in contact over the phone so that I know when she has left home. We then meet up after that.

the key thing is to always do what I want to do so that I don't feel resentful waiting for her.

So for example- I would generally arrange to meet her somewhere that suited me (so for you it would be somewhere toddler friendly) so that if she was late it wouldn't matter too much.

Also if the meeting time is say 10am I might get my shopping done first and then call her at about 10am and say 'I'm just finishing shopping' and will meet you in a bit. She would then probably say either 'Oh I'm behind but I'm planning to leave in 30 mins' this would mean I have at least 1 hour before she leaves {grin} so I might take my shopping home or go to the park for a while. If she has already left I'd make my way to meet her.

If this all seems too much work then you need to see less of her. You could ask her to be on time more but in my experience this rarely worls for long.

Thanks for the ideas. I have tried giving her the earlier time, but I was still hanging around for ages. I just find continual lateness really rude. Maybe I need to lighten up a bit...

I take the same approach as Lazycow with all my friends, which means that any meet up I have is really smooth and pleasant.

I know people like this and I think you just have to learn to live with it. I find that slightly disorganised people are usually very likeable. Arriving a bit late and keeping things fluid are very good suggestions. Or maybe tell her to call you when she's leaving so you have a idea of when to arrive at your destination.

Just use your phone more, or ask her to meet her at the park, in the playground, etc, and go to the final destination (cafe, lunch, shopping) etc from there. I would also ensure to carry a packed lunch of sandwiches and some fruit for dc and a drink.

I will try because, as I say, I really like this woman.

Have you tried to tell her how you feel- in a jokey, friendly way?

Personally, lateness drives me nuts as I feel it's disrespectful. I have friends who does this and it really gets tome as I have made a HUGE effort to get there on time and would feel so bad if I kept them waiting.

Don't know the answer- just maybe say how you feel?

Is there anyone out there who is like the late friend? What is going on in your head? Like his above, I feel it is very disrespectful, we all know how hard it is to get out of the house on time, but if we make the effort, why can't they? And if they really can't then, why can't they phone to let you know? Bloody rude, selfish and childish I think.

That said, I think there are some good suggestions here but it's really like dealing with a four year old isn't it? If you know you are disorganised can't you think of a realistic time? Rant over.

I was never like this pre-dc, but I find myself late on occasion now- sometimes it's very difficult with a 2yo in tow. (Why do they always poo as you're going out of the door? ) It is highly annoying though, and your child cannot understand what the problem is.

Would it be a good idea just to have her come to your house? It won't matter how late she is then- you can just do things as usual until she arrives.

Thanks Elf- we agree

What annoys me, is that it DOES take effort to arrive on time, unless you have the sort of life where you do sod all, all day long.

So if one person can- why can't the rest?!!

If you think it takes you an hour to get ready- start an hour and a half before, next time! If you allow 30 mins for the journey, allow 45 mins next time! If your kids need a poo, then at least have the decency to phone waiting friend and say you will be late.

Basically, aim to be there 20 minutes before you have to, and you might get there on time!

Have a friend just like that

Now I tell her 30mins before the "real"time so that she turns up on time and I am not hung around waiting

I HAD a friend like that, I just don't meet up with her anymore, I too found it totally disrespectful.
I don't have much spare time and don't wish to spend it waiting for someone who can't be arsed to make the effort to turn up on time. (obviously was a recurring theme, not just a one off)

I do just find continual lateness really rude! I can feel my BP going up just thinking about it!
I genuinely cannot understand how an intelligent woman such as my friend can't learn how to adjust her schedule in order to be on time. We're all late from time to time, especially with los and their wonderful toileting habits, but always? I don't get it.

My sister is like this. I dread to think what she'll be like when she has kids! She seems to just have a skewiffy sense of time - like she cancels out in her mind the time it takes to get ready or get anywhere. Really weird!

I find it infuriating too, but like Lazycow said, I plan things differently with her now - I tell her a time at least an hour earlier than I'd actually like her to meet, even then she is usually later than expected!!

tbh quite a few of my friends are a bit like this - every time i invite them over for a party that involves dd, i.e .in the afternoon, they trickle in early evening at her bedtime. i've stopped making promises to dd when it involves anyone else... i guess they don't have kids themselves, so they don't really know what it's like to hang around waiting with a young child.

I cannot abide tardiness. It's just rude and there is no excuse. My DP is like this, habitually 20 mins late, usually because he only starts getting ready at the time he's meant to leave. It really winds me up.

People who are habitually late are lazy sods. That's all there is to it.
There is never any reason for being habitually late.
I couldn't stand to be with someone who was such a sloppy personality.

hi. from a late comers perspective here!
i am always late...often no more than 5 or ten minutes.....but late none the less....

i can't help it...its not me being rude, nasty, purposely trying to annoy or whatever...its just me.
i try to be on time, but somehow, i don't know how, i'm late.....

in the same way as some people are incredible organised and well prepared, i am not....it doesn't seem to be in my nature.

as it goes, i'm always hugely embarrassed about being late...it makes me feel a real dick to be honest, but its just me.

i can completely understand your annoyance at your friend, but sometimes, if you really do value her friendship, and enjoy your time together, you just have to let it go.....

arrange for her to ring you as she's leaving, or you offer to call over at her house, or her to come to you so you can potter round while you're waiting....

and kitty...i am neither a lazy sod, or have a sloppy personality.....just for the record.

I like to be on time but my friends are all likely to be half an hour late on average. But the lateness 'winner' in my life is dh who is usually 3 hours late on average.

I am used to it but making arrangements with other people is difficult.

I remember when his good friend was getting married, the friend knowing dh was really trying to appeal to him to get there on time, And dh really tried his very hardest that day. We arrived just after the bride but at least we didn't miss it.

Dh doesn't like to be kept waiting (of course!)
He is just the most reliably unreliable person I've ever met and for some reason I chose to marry him!
He is very annoying but life would be less colourfull without him.

I think if you can it is worth accomodating late people for the fun of it but don't try to depend on them! that would be silly

mellyonion, 5 or 10 minutes? that is 'on time' to me!

I am often late - perhaps by 5 or 10 minutes. I always feel bad about it, but then I don't mind in the least if people keep me waiting for a few minutes. Sometimes I'm on time, sometimes early. There doesn't seem to be any particular reason why. Things that should be in place (keys, shoes...) often disappear in my life!

(rosy...i was bigging myself up a little....its usually more like 15-20 minutes if i'm honest....but didn't want anyone here to hate me!)

mellyonion, what tosh. Of course you can help it. You are in charge of when you arrive. If you know you are not organised enough to arrive when you said you would then leave earlier. It's not rocket science.

I think it can be a cultural thing.
I'm in NI where 'easy going' is a common trait. And dh is from Pakistan where 'laidback' and 'fluid' is the norm.

Kitty I've made a mental note to arrive on time if I ever meet you

yes, she's rude! I have a friend EXACTLY like this so I dealt with it the following way.

I said to her that I found it frustrating that we had such different attitudes about time (without blaming her for being rude or pointing the finger, just acknowledging that you're at different ends of the time-scale), so asked for her help in trying to stop me feeling so frustrated in working out a solution.

Our solution was that if we were meeting somewhere she would phone me when she got there and I would then get there (having been ready for ages -I'm like that ) So, if we were meeting in town, I'd go off shopping and use that time well and then she'd text when she eventually arrived in town.

She soon got the idea that I found it frustrating and though she couldn't change her late behaviour was willing to work a way around it that suited us both.

Blimey, that sounded like a moral of this story book hey? Basically, though bring it up sometime (not when she has just been late or it'll seem like a personal attack); sometime when your BP is not sky rocketing and just find solutions together. Makes much more sense than biting your tongue while your bloodboils!

Good luck

I want to link this thread to my sister, do you think that's a good idea or would she feel got at?

lateness really gets to me as you can tell!!

What gets to me MORE is the attitude that you can't help it!! Now that is the height of laziness.

Yes you can help it.

Habitually late people are making the choice every single time that they will be late. They cannot be bothered to organise themselves because it is too much work for them. They would rather waste someone else's time then put in just a little effort.

Don't say "I can't help it" because you can, you choose not to.

kitty I don't think it's a simple as you say. I agree with the fact that yes they can help it, but I disagree that it's to do with being lazy, or that it's as personal as you're making it out to be (choosing to waste your time).

One day, when I'm actually with my sister when we have to get somewhere, or she does, I am going to talk her through the whole process and work out what goes on in her head!

That would be an interesting exercise caprica, tell us know what you find out!

I know my dh is useless at estimating time. He plans to do loads of things in an impossible amount of time.
He thinks he has loads of time when he really doesn't.
Once he is engaged in something he focuses totally and gets lost on that.
Then he forgets things and has to go back, loses his car key, takes phonecalls and gets engaged in conversation.
Presumes that no one really cares what time he arrives.

'Presumes that no one really cares what time he arrives. '

you see,its a self-esteem issue,i thought it was.i am not a 'late' person as such,but a 'just on time' or maybe 1-2 minutes late person.no matter what time i get up in the mornings i always have to run to school.i have everything organised the night before,but i always think 'oh,i have 5 mnutes spare,i could do x or y' rather than thinking 'oh,i'll leave early and have a pleasant walk rather than legging it'.

i dont know why i am like that,though.really.

dh is an early person,which i think is just as rude as being late.the first time he ever came round to my house he phoned to say 'im going to be half hour early' i said 'no you're bloody not,i havent hoovered yet!'

I'm often late for meet-ups. Mainly it's because I am not very good at asserting myself so will agree to meet at times that make life very difficult for me as I don't want to say no to the person.
Some of my friends with children in nursery will ring up and say ' just picking kids up from nursery meet you in the park in 30 mins,' and I have to drop everything, get children ready (dd always fills nappy just as we are leaving the house) and hey presto I'm 15-20 mins late, and they are tutting.
Other friend who I go out for the day with, we'll meet up somewhere but only give ballpark times, say between 10-10:30 and that is doable for all of us, with two toddlers and buses to take.
We also use texts to keep track of each other's progress.

I am usually a very punctual person, and have some friends who are always late and some who are bang on time. I find some of the 'aren't I so wonderful for being so organised' posts on here a bit daft, TBH.
"I love my friend, she is always so punctual" I can't see that realistically being on the top of someone's 'things to look for in a friend list'.
Does you friend love you and think of you and care about you? Do you enjoy their company? Then take the rough with the smooth- it's what friends are about.

Friends who are always canceling at the very last minute, now they are annoying.

pinky, occasional latenesss is understandable, persistant lateness is crap.

I just think it's a bit harsh. I was always taught to be punctual, and my goodness when I was at art school, if you were late you had to wait outside til the end of the session and got a serious telling off. I'm not a naturally late person.

I have an absolutely adorable friend who is always late. If we are getting a train or somesuch, I always tell her a much earlier time to give her a chance of getting there. But she would lie down in a the road for her friends and always sees the good in people- so is she crap?

I can see why it's annoying for people, I just wouldn't judge a friendship by it.

divastrop - mellyonion
you guys sound like me. Especially the "i have 5 spare minutes, I can do x,y,z" But generally x,y,z takes more than 5 minutes. I choose to think that i am optimistic
I am only usually a few minutes late -i have a friend who gets really annoyed by this, so I try to be early with her, and I feel just the tiniest bit triumphant when I arrive before she does.

I do think sometimes it is a self esteem issue.

I have problems with low self esteem, too. I end up trying to please everyone, and that is when I come unstuck with punctuality.

Pinky I think then that if you feel that the timescale given to you is too tight, tell you friend that you'll try but will prob be a bit late.

I don't have a problem with lateness if people are upfront about when they will realistically arrive, then it's not lateness iyswim

oooh oooh, pinky and purple (don't you sound great together!lol) so glad i've got some buddies on this thread.... i do the i've got spare two minutes thing too......and yes, i can say that i will bend over backwards to fall in with everyone elses plans, rather than put anyone out.....

i posted initially on here because i thought it may help the op understand her late friend a little...was not asking for nastyness from anyone....

i think i'm a very giving friend tbh, and i'm very very rarely a taker.... i hope that my true friends see through my lateless and love me for me....

i have a very organised friend, she unintentionally makes me feel hugely inadequate about lots of things....but i know, she can't bear to not be in control of anything....so thats why she is so punctual.....she also gives her kids no leeway, is completely inflexible with everything, has her kids in bed by 6 pm because she wants to be able to tidy her house and sit down "relaxing" by 7, will leave an outing because her baby must sleep in a cot in a darkened room in the day, barks at her children if they get dirty, tidies toys away as the children are playing with them etc..... our time together is sometimes tense because we are opposite ends of the scale....but we get on, and we like eachother!

i find all of these things hugely irritating, but ultimately, she is really one of those people who i know i can call on at any given moment if i am in a bother, day or night.......surely, that is far far more important than a small timekeeping issue????

Too right Melly