I have been criticised on a number of occasions for calling the OW a slapper but recent comments on MN have led me to believe that this is true...am I wrong??

If they know the chap is married and has kids, they're not slappers, they're low lives.

i had an affair with a 43-year-old married man who had grown kids when i was 19 and i was an idiot and a low life for doing that.

i was later on a slapper as in i slept around, but not with anyone i knew to be married/with someone and had kids.

i mean, aren't there enough men in the world to not have to go there?

don't you have enough self-respect to walk away from guys like that?

being a dumb teen was as good an excuse i can come up with for behaving like a low life, which is pretty inexcusable.

I believe a slapper is someone who is... promiscuous, sleeps about, finds nothing wrong in doing so. Not a woman who lets herself get emotionally involved with someone other than their partner, which seems to be the case on here lately.

expat you have explained your past a number of times - I have utmost respect for your insight and remorse you seem like a totally decent person - it is those that seem to see no wrong in it AT ALL - chuckle about it and even slag off the W (whose side they clearly have not heard)....I mean FGS the men are clearly dicks but WTF are these women thinking???

but the man, who does know he is married, is the one to blame.

[though my own H, who has recently left, maintains that he wanted to end our relationship BEFORE he had an affair (he says no one in the picture - more theoretically) and tbh I am completely floored by it - and feel it would be easier to comprehend if there were someone else]

You are not wrong MacD - women who sleep with married men (or chase/text etc) are indeed slappers and I too include myself in that category, Expat Although also claim youth as (not much) of an excuse.

Have noticed that the slappers/low-lifes that act in such a way do not have any self-respect, and are generally unlikely to find a "free" man. Simply easier to take someone elses. GRRRRRR

'but the man, who does know he is married, is the one to blame.'

no, they BOTH are. if she knew his situation beforehand and has so little self-respect and self-control she can't say, 'i'm not worth this shit. if you're not happy, move on and maybe we'll hook up later,' or just 'no', then they're both to blame.

and if you're not happy with someone, have the decency to split up before you shag someone else.

people who don't see wrong in chasing or shagging married people - there are some people who actually seem to find it funny or entertaining or just, 'well, he/she fell in love with me' aren't slappers.

they're low lives.

Do you believe him squirrel > Seriously

I take consolation in the fact though, that if a married man cheated on his wife to sleep with a slapper, then how the hell could said slapper EVER expect fidelity? She would always be wondering....

OK we all know the men are arses there is never any debate about that...I want to discuss the womans role in an affair with a married man - why don't they just walk away - no kids no history no house etc etc ...why fuck with the lives of another woman and children why!!!
I would like to say that i personally have been involved twice with men in relationships - a one night stand with a married man I was absolutely mortified in the morning and ran ran ran as fast as I could and ignored him forevere more, the second was a relationship for a few weeks and I feel hard and fast for him (I didn't know he had a girlfriend) when I found out I was heartbroken, apologised to her (she confronted me) called him some choice names and ignored his calls )and sobbed myself to sleep for many months) - so I know how it feels but I walked away - if he really wanted me he would have left her (I cetrainly was not going to humiliate myself by chasing him).....so I just don't get the behaviour and then being proud of it

yes, the 'i was unhappy before i shagged around on you'.

then grow a pair and walk out and maybe i'd have a shred of respect for you.

but otherwise? nah.

i was there, too.

my relationship had broken down and i started to grow close to someone i knew.

called a 'talk' one night. most painful one of my life.

told ex h point blank, 'i am starting to think about having sex with other men (we'd been having problems because of an impasse we'd reached about having kids) and i don't know what to do, but i'd rather split than do that.'

so we went to counselling and decides to split.

two years later, we divorced.

and man, it HURT. the moving out, the finding a new place, selling our home, etc.

but ex H is a nice man. he still is (we're still pals and he's also happily remarried and childfree). he didn't deserve someone doing that to him.

i went out with a man who was truly separated. i even made him show me the papers and stayed at his house often enough.

he later got back together with his estranged wife.

i found out inadvertently from his best friend about 3 weeks later and chucked him.

should have told her he was fucking me, but at that point i just wanted to jack in my whole life there as a bunch of other stuff was going wrong.

do I believe him? I truely don't know, I think I do - but then I didn't believe that he would ever do something like this either.
TBH though it is irrelevant though - he no longer wants me, for whatever reason - the fact, not the reason, is the pertinent matter.

Macdoodle - can you please point me in the direction of the recent comments to which you refer. I would be interested to see them..

My position as such a 'slapper' on here is known - but I have only met others here in similar situations who have felt nothing but regret and unhappiness - and who are almost all in existing relationships with decent wonderful men.

Mixformax - I think lack of self-esteem may be a genuine reason that this happens - I'm sure that none of the SlagAnon sisters would say what they fell into happened simply because it was 'easy'. But at the same time low self-esteem is not an excuse for such behaviour and I am not seeking to justify such( I have to add quickly before that old line of debate gets pursued again).

Expat, separated man sounds like a right tosser for keeping him optiosn open with you and estranged wife, but you did good not to tell her anything, She'll have enough to deal with anyway

Squirrel, you can never guess whats going on in his head, cos he probably doesn't know anyway, so don't beat yourself up trying.

Actually though squirrels you are wrong - if there is some flippy dippy smoothing his ego giving him the time and energy that you don't have becaue you run his house/look after his kids etc etc...slagging you off listening to his sob stories - then the grass looks greener - my H thought he didn't love/want me - when he realised that his stupid tart wasn't a tenth of the person I was and that she wanted more than a fuck - he tried to get away (but she was demented stalker)he realised he did still love me and want me - too fucking late though ..anyway sorry what I mean is there are others on this site whose H's have realised what they are losing when they manage to escape the clutches of the OW...good luck there are those of us who have come out the other side both ways

It's a bit of a fantasy that it's the women doing the chasing.

In my time I've been chased by a few married/partnered men. When I didn't want anything to do with them I know they moved on to the next woman.

If men make vows to remain faithful it's their responsiblity to stick to it. Of course it's always easier to blame the OW than to admit that a husband/DP is a complete arsehole.

Well said Dittany!

( I didn't dare!)

Did I mention any names or threads ....purposefully kept this theoretical because I am genuinely interested why any one would be remotely proud of arranging to meet a married man - I personally am mortified by my dallies with attached men (also in my misspent youth) and both times ran away as fast as I could to avoid damaging anyone else

my pal and i got so weary of being lied to on the dating scene, we starting asking guys to show us their papers if they said they were divorced or separated.

but tbh, there really are women out there who think it's fun or some kind of conquest or 'i can have any man i want' to get in bed with someone who's married.

men, too.

You can only be chased if you want to be - so what if he moves onto another woman (we are all agreed the men are arses)...just wonder what drives someone into responding to being chased by a married man??

Maybe I misunderstood your op. i thought you meant that somewhere ther were women here actually proud of their behaviour. In my crusade to 'save' them, I wanted to know if I'd missed anyone

apols if this wasn't what you were referring to.

I think that in some cases the OW has issues which might make them indugle in self destructive behaviour or get involved with "unavailable" men. and often they are lied to and told that a relationship is over/breaking up when it isn't.

Doesn't make it ok but gives some more context into why people do these things.

In my case I am sure H did his fair share of chasing - but on one memorable night when he was desperately trying to prove to me he wanted me back - he sat with me and showed me every text and voicemail she sent - shall we just say there were a LOT ....soooo she was chasing a married man no??? Just wonder why???

WHy chase?

low self esteem springs to mind.

Maybe she got a "buzz" over getting an "unavailable" man to respond to her.

Still makes her a low life.

That's a good question. Would the attraction to him be the same if he was single??

I think I will put this one to the sisterhood...

You'd have needed to see every text he'd ever sent her macdoodle to get the full picture.

Where do you think "My wife doesn't understand me", "I'd leave her if it wasn't for the kids", "It's you I love" and "we don't sleep together" come from?

He was just trying to put the blame on her so you didn't notice what a prick he was.

MacDoodle, if someone responds to being chased by a married man, she is very likely not being chased by anyone available and so will take whatever/whoever she can get

Anniemac I think there are a lot of people who get into this because of self-esteem issues, and because their past history with fathers or partners has made them somehow needier. the self-destructive issue is a good one too. I present myself to you as exhibit A.

There is some paradox about trying to 'turn' an unavailable man - like the challenege will somehow prove you the woman is irrisistable. However, this is bollocks I am starting to think - because married man are 'easy' in that they are safe (i.e. if you don't want me it's just because you are married not becaus I am undesirable). Maybe I have contradicted my earlier point a little..

mummybb I seriously do not want a "fight" - I am trying my dammdest to move on from my H's affair (with or without him)....and trying to understand the OW and get over my quite vicious hatred of her (she met me and lied to my face as well, as well as about me to H)is part of it - personally I just don't get it all - I have never spoken about my 2 brief dalliances with attached men as I was so very of them ....I find it even harder to understand a woman who has children who breaks up another family with children ??

mix I cannot belive this is often true - it is a very sweeping statement about the OWs - I think the issues run much deeper.

Dittany I saw many of the texts he sent her - she relished shwoing them to me(I am very much not a fool and he is a prick I am aware of this we are working our issues out) but I need to work my issues out regarding OW or they will haunt me forever...on this particular night he did not respond at all (he was sat next to me all night) and she bombarded him (more than 50)- his best friend has told me that it was a regular occurence for her to text him all night if he was out with mates!

I think a lot of time the OWs believe the men's lies.

Obviously these men are good liars, they are already lying to their wives. It's incredibly destructive of them.

macdoodle - I certainly have no wish to fight anyone - sorry if I am giving you that impression (it's past my bedtime) - and I am very sorry that you have been on the other end of one of these relationships.

I cannot pretend to understand why women behave like this - only that I am sure that some people lose their sense of right and wrong when overwhelmed by a (fantasy)relationship which appears to offer them happiness. Such women ( me included) could be called selfish.Hands up to that. But I honestly do see it sometimes as a form of weakness and madness..

That sounds to me like the behaviour of someone whose been lied to MacDoodle and has thus become obsessed - he's dangled promises in front of her then taken them away. Not condoning her behaviour, it's totally out of order to go anywhere near a married man, but some women can be quite stupid about men.

It's going to make it easier to stick with your dh if you put the blame on her, but really it's down to him, not her. He was married to you and he betrayed you. It was his choice.

Also - when someone feels their relationship with a married person is threatened - they will become more desperate to prevent it ending - which can often hasten the end. hencde 50 texts, stalkers, and 101 rabbit recipe books.

Before I go to bed I have been wondering what prompted me to start this thread.
I think what I want is to know that the OW is sorry, that she is ashamed for what she did, that she didn't mean to hurt me or DD1, that she was wrong and should have walked away, that she was stupid to get pregnant on purpose, that one day I will be able to trust that my DD's will be able to have a relationship with their half sister without me worrying what kind of demented things she will say or do, to stop thinking that somehow she is more of a victim than I am, that somehow I am the bad guy....
I will never ever talk to her again - she has always twisted and turned anything I said and even accused me of harassing her (totally untrue I would like to point out)...but she seems to see herself as some hard done by victim and that I broke her relationship with MY H up ....so I think I was looking for some insight into her head some understanding to allow me to move on.....

MacDoodle, you really don't need to understand the OW - just put her in a box and move on. Raking over her history with you H will only hurt you. Maybe try distraction - every time you think of her, actively push the thought away with something else.

Sorry if I offend mummyb, only speak as I find

He got her pregnant? What a fucking prick.

Why do you want to stay with him? He's got the two of you fighting over him whilst he sits pretty.

Dittany H and I have been seperated 18 months - he still wants to get back together, I want a divorce - we are desperately trying to maintain a civil relationship for our DD's - I am trying to heal my heart and I guess getting the OW out of my head is the next step - H and I are dealing with our issues I am under NO delusions as to the part he played believe me......I am not excusing him - I hold them both to blame unfortunately I have 2 DD's with him so I cannot just walk away!

don't worry mix - i appreciate your words and belive me have heard a lot worse on here!



bedtime zzzxxx

Dittany I don't want him That was the first step - I did put her in a box for a long time it doesn't work I need to exorcise it I think (in my head that is not in RL )....

ok gotta go to bed - I started this thread really angry - and I'm not anymore so I actually think it helped thanks all for not letting it kick off

Well the way you might be able to do it is to see that he probably messed her about and lied to her and made promises that he had no intention of keeping almost as much as he messed you around, but you'd have to be a pretty big person to go with that. In fact you'd probably have to be superhuman or a saint.

It's a horrible situation he's put you in, what a nightmare for you.

Being nosey! Where is H now? with OW? Has she had child? Is it definetly his? Feel free to tell me to piss off

Oops, crossed messages! Sleep well then, I'm off too now

zzzz

We are seperated but amicable - he lives in a flat I live in our house with our 2 DD's (he comes up most mornings to take DD1 to school) - he is adamant he is not with OW (but obviously my trust in what he says is not so hot)...OW baby nearly a year old (pretty sure it is his she is obsessed with him baby looks like him he says)...tend NOT to ask about her or baby (hard to deal with)....I have DD2 age 4 months (his) conceived when we DID try to reconcile about a year ago now - didn't work for obvious reasons (but I have my wonderful DD2).....I would like a divorce and move on (we have a business together so complicated) he is resisting , I will never trust him again and will never live like that again (afraid I do still love him more fool me but not foolish enough to ever take him back)....ok really night now !

Your ow sounds like a nightmare macdoodle. I'm genuinely sorry for that.

i can appreciate why you want to understand her - but all of us are different. she sounds a bit unhinged and unreasonable and i don't think it would help you to hear anything from her when she is in that state. i'm glad you have got some of it out of your system tonight though - but I don't think she is worth your thoughts.

No, they're very nice women, otherwise why would our xh's leave us for them? Us ex-wives just give OW's a bad press, because we are bitter old hags

OOH, I'm sorry I made a joke of it. I've just read your posts, and you seem very upset. I think they are just incredibly selfish . Otherwise, how could you willingly cause a family that much pain? Then again, how could he?

This is difficult to understand.
One thing, though - after I had been someone's mistress for several years, I wrote the wife a letter saying how sorry I was and that I didn't understand why he had done it as she was gorgeous and lovely, and I was so sorry and knew I had done something terribly wrong. I had a call from her new partner saying how dare I apologise, how dare I contact them like that, she felt nothing about me, and never wanted to hear from me again...
I know, they had every right to say that but I still wonder if it maybe helped her, to be told I was sorry, or just made things worse.

I did know it was wrong, but what I still don't get, and didn't at the time, was why I didn't see what a shit he was being.
I was sort of blind to it. All I knew was that I absolutely loved him, down to the bad bits, I mean I loved everything about the guy, which leads me to thinking it was more of a construction in my own head - ie I loved what I made him into, I loved what he represented in my imagination...the real man was highly attractive, but he was still a shit and I just could not see him that way at the time. All I knew was that it hurt like someone was cutting off my arm when I didn't see him for a while.
This of course was utterly callous to his wife, who for all I knew felt that way about him too, but I just didn't bring her into the equation, it was like I could not afford to - to be without him felt like I would die, I felt I had no choice, it was really weird.
I've never felt that about anyone else, before or since.
Perhaps he reminded me of my dad or something...it went very deep, whatever the pull to him was. It wasn't ever a laughing matter iyswim - not spiteful to her or for the sake of it, or anything like that. If he was there I would never have turned him away.

Sorry not to be more help in deciphering. Just some thoughts if it offers any insight. I'm sorry you've been through such a lot of shit, macdoodle

Low self esteem probably came into it for me but it didn't seem like that then - I just felt like I needed to be near him, no question. I used to cry when he was hurt, things like that - want to feel the hurt for him, so he didn't have to, that kind of feeling. No idea if that was love or just weird compulsion on my part.

Sorry that first paragraph sounds like I think my letter somehow made up for the affair - of course it didn't, but I guess there is no way to do that. I guess I wanted to try and put it right but couldn't, and we both knew that. I hope she is in less pain nowadays
I was such a stupid fool.

hah! the ow in my case had the cheek to phone after she had a row with my exh last week and said yes, indeed she wishes she had steered clear. when i asked why the fuck she hadn't done she replied with a giggle 'you know what a charmer he is'
low life.
and they are still together.

I think to determinedly avoid getting involved with a married man that you really fancy and who is attracted to you, involves more than just 'doing the right thing'. It involves empathy. You have to feel that what you are doing is going to cause hurt and to want to avoid that. And the older I get the more I realise that many people lack all empathy with the real people around them. They can sob over Princess Di and get hugely involved with the storyline in Eastenders, but don't really give a toss for those who live around them.

Someone who does the things as described in the OP is not being a decent person.
I honestly don't give any weight to the term 'Slapper' or, come to think of it, slag, slut etc.
They mean nothing and show only disdain on part of the person using the words.
I wish these words weren't used as often on here (or anywhere else).
But I've seen a thread lately where the op is clearly in pain and distress and uses the word slapper to describe the woman her XH has left her and their children for, and I don't think that is an appropriate time to pull someone up on the words they use, although some did.

not at 2, althou my XH is just as bad if you ask me. But there was 2 women involved. apparently he's now told one of them 'it's not gonna happen' maybe he's realising what an idiot he's been & what it is he's thrown away.

I do not have the time of day for either of said 'women' and would rather cut of my own (well something v bad!) than I would be civil to the little bitches who helped to wreck my marriage. -Then again thou XH & they did me a favour really as i'm better off out of it after all of the abusive stuff he did over the years.

This is an interesting question Mcdoodle - not as straight forward as some make out though. If women who embark on relationships when the man is married (and they know he is) are all 'slappers' then my mother is a 'slapper' - please forgive me if I find it difficult to accept that wholeheartedly.

My perspective is that of the 'second family' my Father already had a family and a wife and met my Mother then went on have a affair which became a serious relationship (they married when his divorce came through). His first wife was already having other relationships neither was faithful. Mum was younger (but not a teenager) and had come from a horrendous homelife so I can appreciate (a bit) the appeal of an older 'safe' family man.

I know that my mum had a very difficult time as the other woman and I have no doubt his first wife (a woman I know well and like very much) had a horrible time. I was the 'bastard' and was pitied I think by Dad's Catholic family. Things only got easier for everyone when his first wife also had another child (not much younger than me) and was in a long term relationship herself. But now my Dad is dead (for many years) Both women get on pretty well and even lived together for a short time (due to illness). Mum did not enjoy a happy marriage (Dad was a great father but crappy husband) but they both love their children and all of us half and full siblings love being part of a big sprawling family.

Only time can give perspective to such a painful end to a relationship. As I am now married with children I can only imagine how I would feel if my DH did this to me. I would never have an affair either but I like to think if my husband did leave me for another woman I would be able to appreciate that things could be ok in the end. But I do not expect everyone to have this perspective it is so difficult to deal with betrayal I can only hope I never have to.

But you're talking about one woman who I agree sounds vile. But I think it's dangerous to take the POV that men have no willpower of their own. I would reserve the majority of your anger for the man who made promises to you and then broke them rather than for the woman he broke them with.

thank you big mouth that is brave and helps - I guess part of it is knowing that my DD's have a half sister that one day they would want/like/need to know - and that maybe it could work out in some way (though TBH it hurts a lot that she got a wonderful gift of a child from her behaviour almost like she has been rewarded IYSWIM??)

yes bigmouth it would apply to my mother too

who met a man who had been unhappily married for years, whose wife had got him into debt because she was unsatisfied with the wage he was earning and wanted a 'better life'

he was drinking a lot and was very, very lonely

my mum got him out of debt, stopped him drinking, and they lived happily until he got cancer and she nursed him till she died

not a slapper

not at all

nursed him till he died

my mum is still very much alive thankfully

I am sorry you are having such a difficult time Macdoodle

I have to say I am grateful that my Dad's first wife never showed me any anger she must have felt - she is always lovely to me (as far back as I can recall)and I have a close relationship with my older sibs.

She and my Mum were both at a family gathering at my house this christmas - and I am not saying that it was entirely comfortable all the time - but everyone got on well and I think enjoyed the day. I don't think that could have been imagined 30 years ago!

Very much agree with Ormirion (sp?). There must be a total lack of empathy for the wife. I got a text from xh's OW when he split up with her briefly (so he could work things out in his head about what he wanted).
I told him whatever he wanted, he could eff off because I wasn't taking him back. She texted me and said "yeah, well, nobody wins".
Exact words (only she doesn't know how to use commas ).

I was totally furious. 'Wins'? Is it a competition then? Or a game? It was very very clear to me that I was something that needed to get out of her path, that was all she saw me as.

I shouldn't answer these threads. I feel compelled to text xh and tell him what a C word he is - which will look a bit mental, 4 years down the line..... oh dear

I agree with BMSA and C, it's not quite so black and white. No doubt the betrayal and loss of stability hurt everyone involved but as much as you may hate the OW, it wasn't her that made the vows to the wife. In quite a few cases she doesn't even know the wife is still present and is certainly being given a description of the relationship by the man that might not resemble his wife's ideas of it.

What if he personally thinks that the relationship is loveless, what if it's a fact that there's hardly any sex and he feels neglected and lonely, pushed aside by the kids and social calendar of a wife he hardly sees because he toils to bring cash home? I think the decent thing to do is to be honest, sadly IME 99% of the men I've met are cowards as they don't want to 'hurt' anyone...till it all comes out and hearts and homes are ripped apart. It's so easy to vilify the OW and if they're being nasty to the wife they deserve a slap, but don't forget who promised to love and honour you, yet didn't keep his word.

Most OW don't stay with the man they had an affair with. You could call it karma. Very few stay together, some go on get married and have children together, having found their 'one'. BMSA's story gives hope that time is a healer.

I think, sadly, some people grow up in a world where all relationships are transitory. Committment means 'for as long as you feel like it'; and so, for them the fat that a man is 'married' is actually not important. They dont see that as a lasting committment anyway so whats to respect ?

sadly that often applies to their experience with children also, a man ( and we all know of plenty) 'can' leave his children.

I does not make it right, but some people are simply not coming from the same place as you.

My best friend was in a relationship witha married man for years, I don't think she was a slapper at all.

She was in fact a young, naive and stuid 17year old girl that met a guy who didn't tell her he was married straight away.
She later found out he was, and had two children of his own and a stepdaughter, she was devastated, but by now she was hooked, many a time she ended it with him, he always told her that him and his wife were 'just together for the kids' and other sob stories, so much so that even she thought him staying with his wife was the right thing

A few years in the wife left him, taking her two eldest children abroad and leaving the son, compounding what my friend had been told about how the wife didn't treat said son properly hence he couldn't leave.

My bf spent 6 months playing happy families with the boy, she then got pg herself, and wife decided to come back to England, bf became the partner and wife the 'OW'.

Thankfully bf had a termination (which 4 years later she still isn't over) and left him, but this went on for 7 years!

Yes she knew it was wrong but the picture he painted was one of an evil wife, that was a bad mother and he daren't leave for the sake of the kids.

He is still with his wife, and turns up at my friends work/house every few months, yet claims she is obsessed.

What I mean by this is we only ever have one side of the story, we don't know what horrors HE is telling OW, although it isn't excusable maybe we'd understand more if we did know?

Also, another spin, my dad left my mum for my babysitter when he got her pg. My mum then left Scotland so I didn't see my Da for years, him and the OW got married, and after having my first brother (who has SN, which is apparently what kicked dad into leaving my mum)they went on to have another, she too was with my Dad until he died of cancer a few years ago and is adorable. The reason my dad didnt leave my mum was her illness, he caught her trying to kill me and herself, so was petrified, only leaving when he thought she had got better.

My SIL was the OW for 4 years until his wife found out 2 months ago and he told SIl he needed to fight to get her and their kids back.(he should of thought about that before starting the affair)He went back and carried on lying about how long the affair was .Wot a WANKER he is still lying
My SIL was heartbroken (no sympathy given just listened)

Then a week later my other SIl (OW sister)husband said out of the blue he was leaving her after 20 years of marriage cos he did have someone else.SIL(ow) has now seen the devastion(sp) it has caused.Her sister the kids etc etc.

I would`nt call her a slapper just a very sad person who needs to find a man of her own

That's a really sad story WH. What a bloody life. Men, eh?

I really appreciate hearing everyones stories (especially the other side)....it is very hard for me to think of her with anything but anger and disgust at the moment - but we have children who are half sibs and I have tried so hard to protect my children (mainly my older DD1, DD2 still baby) and hate to think that they will pick up on my anger/bitterness or that any child (hers included) would be damaged by the fallout from H's behaviour
I come from a very dusfunctional family and my parents still hate each other 20+ years down the line which is unpleasant to say the least ...I so don't want that for my DD's ....
Part of trying to understand her I guess, is the hope that she will bear my children no malice unfortunately her past behaviour is not reassuring ...I know I am rambling but as the children get older there will be so many questions that I need to be sure in my head how I can deal with it....
Suffice to say I have plenty of anger directed at H - but am not prepared AT ALL to put my DC in the middle of a battleground I lives in one for far too long and it is bloody horrid

What's in a name?

Life is not black and white. Ideally, everyone should end one relationship before starting another, but life isn't like that a lot of the time, as we are all HUMAN- and that means we have faults.

I'm sorry you have had a rough time, but if you are to move on you need to stop being bitter. Have you thought about counselling?

Women get involved with married men because they are assured, or hope, there is a future. People do divorce- it's a fact! Some people divorce for another person, others divorce when there is no 3rd party involved.

As a fairly new-comer to MN, I do find most posts very castigating and intolerant, when it comes to OW/OM relationships. Whether that is because the posters have no experience of life, or have never felt tempted or whatever, I don't know,but many do see things as very cut and dried and have a very cynical approach to men.

I am not saying you have no right to feel angry- but labelling the OW, is not going to help, nor is understanding her. the sad fact is that your husband made a choice- not the right one for you, but there are 2 people in every relationship- he wouldn't have gone unless he wanted to be there.

I expect to be shouted down, but I just wanted to try to get some calm and perspective into this post.

"Yes she knew it was wrong but the picture he painted was one of an evil wife, that was a bad mother and he daren't leave for the sake of the kids."

This is the bit I don't get. Everybody, and I mean everybody knows that married men who want a bit on the side tell lies. Why is any woman stupid enough to fall for it, or rather why does she choose to be stupid and fall for it. Some women are so keen to believe the worst of other women, particularly if there's a man involved.

I had one friend whose long-term partner was constantly unfaithful to her, in her eyes it was all the other women who were "slappers". She seemed to believe he was a real a prize (even though he beat her up). He even made a pass at me - he shagged all her friends.

Rather than looking at what a wanker they've picked, either the wife/partner or the OW, they choose to blame it all on their supposed rival, instead of the man in the middle tearing both of their souls and emotions apart.

I am sorry you're having such a tough time.

However its isn't true that the OW is always a slapper. I had an affair with a married man. He had only been married for 18 months when we first started seeing each other. I had only been engaged for a month and thought I was very happy. We met at work and saw each other most days. It was very difficult to stop seeing each other although we both tried for the sake of our other halves.

We have now been together for 8 years and are very happily married with two beautiful boys. We both regret hurting our exes but it turned out that we were meant to be.

And DH isn't a b*tard either. He's the sweetest guy.

Things are very rarely black and white.

God I remember one married man who was trying to get off with me, telling me all about the troubles his wife was conceiving and how she'd been a virgin when they got married. I told him to STFU but he didn't have any problem betraying her like that to a woman she'd never even met. What a bastard.

HLS has a point.

This thread has become so negative, a melting pot of swear words and hatred. Things are rather black and white on MN and others have commented it in various threads.

I'm so for helping people who have been treated badly be it advice, answers or physical help but just to say all men are whack and all good relationships are adhering to certain rules does not represent reality and people's choices.

I think a line needs to be drawn though, when the OW shows aggression towards the wife or thinks it's all a big joke and plays the game to win, not because she cares about the man. No one deserves to be treated like that and it's not okay.

I agree Alexa- I read your previous post and agreed with it too.

I am speaking from personal experience- i fell for a married man- he told me at the start- whose wife had left him for another man. BUT she came back- and he didn't tell me as quickly as he could have. It was an emotional affair only. I was angry, but at the same time, I knew I was taking a risk with a man who wasn't 100% free- but there were no children involved. Interestingly, when the 3 of us met ( yes, in rather dramatic circumstances- ) she blamed HIM, and said she felt sorry for me, as I'd be duped.

I think it's great for women to support each other here, but I can't go along with the "all men are bastards" approach, or the "all OW are slappers " etc attitude. Life isn't like that sadly.

And Ihate the swearing- it's just crude.

I guess I think that destroying someone's life with physical and emotional incontinence is a lot worse than swearing.

Let's understand people who rip other people's hearts and families apart, but swearing - now that's really bad.

Also Alexa, how exactly can one be positive about affairs? How would a positive thread go? I'd love to see it.

dunno

i have some moral absolutes and shagging/ pursuing married men / women is one of those

i am not naive or lack life experience

people have a choice , whether it is to flirt, or shag or whatever. being in the grip of strong emotions or drink or whatever does not excuse the behaviour.

don;t start something if the end result can only be hurt and pain for yourself and others

i am married, of course i look at other men, of course it is nice to be fancied adn desired by other men, but would i ever take the next step? not a chance. i love and respect my DH and my DCs too much for that

if i was tempted, i would take a good long look at myself and my marriage

of course, having an affair , and keeping it secret is far easier than ending a marriage , especially where there are children

people want their cake and eat it and don;t want to be arsed investing time and emotion in relationships

i have little sympathy for the OW or OM. people make choices. and when they make the wrong choice,they have to live with the consequences, and not ask for pity when the consequences are so predictable and forseeable

Have to agree with HLS here that things in rl are not that black and white. I have been cheated on and also have been OW.

When I thought I was being cheated on (had v strong suspicion and evidence) the blame would have largely fallen on my DH. I think the idea of sisterhood is largely an illusion perpetuated by some feminists (of which I like to think I am one). I don't really think it truly exists in any areas of life.

If I met someone new and had no history with them and they were married I simply would not go there. So maybe that's my moral absolute.

However I have been OW with an former boyfriend. I know it was high risk, went in with my eyes wide open but my feelings for him outweighed all of this.

I do not consider myself to be predatory or particularly lacking in self esteem. Nor am I proud of myself. I would not have caused problems for him at home ie act like bunny boiler. I take a philosophical approach to it - if it is meant to be etc.

But I hate the name calling in this and any situation when describing (mainly woman's) sexual behaviour

i don;t think it is anything to do with sister hood . it is to do with doing the right and decent thing regardless of gender.

i disagree with use of slapper etc.. and thikn that women get more flack than men do in all of this.

Sorry only just joined this. i do not think it is always black and white but there does have to be a line that is never crossed. When people have made a commitment to each other then surely as a society we all should support that?

I do feel the ow has some responibility to wife and kids - its called respect. Doing something morally wrong is not made better just because you will not 'make trouble'.

I have a set of morals that i live by and i truely do believe i will stick to them, no matter what the circumstances are.

Here are some of them.

I would never drink and drive
I would help someone if i saw they were in trouble - i would not stand by and see someone hurt.
I would not 'smack' anyone elses child.(i have mine but do feel so very guilty and know it is my own failing before you all slate me).
I would not go with a married/attacted man.

These are just a few and i hope i am teaching my children the same.

Sorry but some things are wrong - full stop. However we try to justify it.

I know it happens - and i try and look at it as mistake - but we should never justify knowly causing pain to others.

I do think you can disapprove of someone who has sex with someone they know is in another relationship. But the chief offender is the person who is married/in a partnership.

Agree there is inequality here - the other woman is demonised while a man who has an affair or who has sex with a married/attached woman isn't. But that doesn't mean the person knowingly sleeping with someone who has another relationship gets off scot free.

Really tricky when you have children - God forbid but if dh and I split up over adultery, I would hate the thought of the other woman being around ds (and assume dh would feel equally furious at the idea of an 'other man' playing happy families with ds).

It is still a mans world whether we like it or fight it.

I do think men get an easier time of it - but we all know the score beforehand too.

I have just come across a case of the lost/malfunctioning empathy that I mentioned earlier. I am sincerely . I was talking to the mother of one of DS#1's friends at school. She told me that her DH is in the middle of leaving her (at her insistence) because he is having an affair with his second cousin (or some such) who was standing across the playground from us! She knows about his children, she even went to their wedding last year. Their children play together. He insists that his actions are not effecting the children - even though mum has been called into school several times to deal with incidents of fighting/tears/children running out of the classroom and hiding. He has told her he'll cut her throat if he ever catches her with anyone else. And he'll take the children.

Now I think it would be perfectly justified for her to use whatever name she likes about both her DH and the OW. In fact she didn't. I suggested politely that he sounded a little 'unstable'

She's probably too scared to say a word against him. It's not like some men don't carry out their threats .

Dittany, I dont get it either, really, I, as her friend, listened when she needed me, but told her time and time again that he was a user, a cheat, an arsehole,a nd probably a big fat liar, but she loved him and trusted him, more fool her I say, but these stories he would tell her were even confirmed by his friends!

The wife never went out, it was my BF he took out with him if he went somewhere, everyone knew about her, and what his wife would apparently do if he left her.
I honestly believe people thoguht they were like Romeo and Juliet, especially her.

As I said young, naive and stupid, yes, but human, and we all believe things we want to believe.

FWIW, she, herself would say she was in the wrong and totally under his spell and a proper muppet for believing him.

You know if women did take the "all men are bastards" line or rather "all married men who cheat on their wives are bastards" line (which is the accurate one and what has been argued here) rather than trusting them, the world would be a lot happier place.

To me any man who is thinking of cheating on his wife is by definition a scumbag (or for people who don't like vulgarity, untrustworthy), whatever lovely face he tries to put on it.

That must have sucked watching your friend being treated like that, VS, with his friends enabling him too (OMG). It used to do my head in watching my friend getting messed around by her partner whilst he slept with all and sundry. Mr Charming he was. On both sides women are getting hurt.

The fall-out after the termination was worse, especially as I got pg not long after, the one time I was best placed to say I told you so and desperately wished I'd been wrong.

I just don't think there is an excuse for it. At all.
Yes the men are shits, but certain women can be very very manipulative too and I just don't see any justification for sleeping with a man who has a wife and dc.
You can make excuses all you like, but imo it is absolutely 100% morally wrong to knowingly wreck a marriage and hurt innocent children all for what - sex? affection? love? all of which can be got from single men.
Sorry if it sounds blunt, but I really can't muster up any sympathy for women who do this, having seen first hand all the heartache it causes.

Dittany- I am never for one moment condoning affairs- all I am saying is that sometimes, an affair is a symptom of a poor marriage, rather than the cause of it or a break up.

There are genuine cases of "my husband/wife doesn't understand/love me" and in an ideal world they would split before they met anyone else- but it doesn't always happen. It's just daft to think it does. And can you try to keep the sarcasm out of the posts- that's what I hate about mn at times- the cattiness, and the inability to say something without resorting to sarcasm and plain nastiness- not you- but others at times.

it's a nasty thing to do, though, hls, to just basically think, 'well, in an ideal world he/she should have split, but oh well, he/she didnt. get over it.'

it's not cool to knowingly sleep with someone you know is married and has kids, no matter what the circumstances.

because people get so, so hurt.

His, my sarcasm was in response to your sanctimonious tut-tutting. If you can keep that out of your posts I'll do my best not to be sarcastic.

Going back to op -

My h's affair happened in another country with a woman he had worked with for 5 years. She knew of us (me and dc) but I have seen through texts/messages that she felt that they were "responding to something they had felt for years"!! As if this was a good enough reason.

I know I will never know the whole truth, but I asked h whether she asked about me or the dc and he says no. I believe it was a case of out of sight, out of mind. She really didn't want to know about us - but bear in mind that was told to me by my lying, cheating h!