Dear All,

don't know what happened yesterday - I accidentally asked for my thread to be deleted but I actually was removing posts which might have identified individuals.

Have asked MNHQ if it's possible to reinstate without those posts as I know some of you were finding it helpful, as was I, but it got a bit out of hand yestersay so it might be they decide it's better all round to keep it removed.

Sending you love,

mbb xxx

Is this another person mummybrains?

still me Irish - just put the two together to illustrate.

How are you feeling today?

Erm.. empty, to be honest.
Hurt, and lost and foolish.
I feel I have lost so much, but I have to stop wallowing in it for everyone's sake, there are so many other things that are more important than this.
I feel so sorry for his wife. I know they will be fine in the end - she is a sensible and intelligent woman, and will not dwell on this.
Mc feels like it's in the past. I think that was for the best.
Dad has had blood transfusion and is now on steroids in preparation for chemotherapy.
I must just get on. Hope they can restore the larger part of the thread though - there was so much good advice and creative writing here I regret that the others have lost that.

Has your ds got over his iron trauma?

He has thanks. I'm sure he will use it as an excuse when he is older to get out of doing any ironing!

That's good news that your dad is getting treatment now. Please God he will be ok. My sil is almost finished chemo. She had breast cancer, but is well on the road to recovery.

Are you going to look into some counselling?

I think you should.

I have had two miscarriages and although I thought I was fine at the time it was obvious I was hugely affected by them. They happened in my very early twenties and people would always say that I was young and would have more. How insensitive people can be at times.

Have you given up the play?

Thanks - good to hear about your sil - dad is 76 and has already had bowel and lung cancers in last 4 yrs - and I'm getting the impression from mum that there's very little they can do with livers. But he's being very stoic.

I didn't think the mc wld affect me so deeply - but I guess it does, no matter what stage it's at or how welcome/unwelcome the pregnancy.

i am about to ring the counselling service as it happens.

and yes, there's no way I can get out of the play. It's as bad for her too - we keep shooting each other encouraging looks. I think she just wants to move on.

I feel sorry for his wife as he seems to have had more then affair. Then again she knows what she is getting!

Does your partner know about the affair?

yes, not the details - but he knows that he and I have been twunts.

yes, not the details - but he knows that he and I have been twunts.

Does he know you were pregnant?

yep - but we have not really talked about it

Hi mummybb! How are you today?

Thanks for starting a new thread - was just resigning myself to the inexplicable disappearance of the ebb one, when fevered scrolling revealed SlagAnon beacon. What a relief.

Never had chance to tell you how brilliant -(and helpful) - your Bellocesque piece was. Made me laugh even more given ds's recent efforts to learn "Matilda" for a recital! Any chance of a reprint?

Wonder how gracey and rascal are?

I had another couple of calls from KT yesterday; managed to ignore both, but couldn't stop them affecting my mood. Chatted through problem with dh. He is adamant that I should talk to KT, if only to ram the point home. I've already done this, many times. Lovely dh: can't see that KT always extracts entirely the wrong message from any response at all. Depressing to think that he's probably a sex addict.

Seems to be no choice but to maintain my stance and allow time do its thing. It has been months though...I suppose some would say it's no more than I deserve, but I have learnt my lesson and wouldn't contemplate going there again.

Meanwhile, KT's wife insists on dipping in and out of our lives at whim. Interestingly, she too is training to be some sort of counsellor/therapist. Unbelievable, eh?

Just need unilateral closure.

Hi mummyb, hope you're okay, was wondering where the thread had gone! I hope you and DP are managing to get along okay.

Stuffed Olivia - I'm okay thanks. exOM was waiting at my place of work again yesterday. I was happy but surprised to see him but I have worked so hard these past few weeks to get over him and obviously that didn't help. We went for a walk and I told him he is really unsettling me and it's not fair. I think - hope - he understood. But I have a terrible headache today because I couldn't stop thinking about the whole situation all night, I kept waking up and my mind was doing overtime. I hope you are okay, time is a great healer isn't it xx

really struggling today

Rascal, Suffed!

I have emailed MNHQ again this morning asking for resurrection of the thread.

In the meantime sorry to hear you are both still being plagued by the mantwats.

Rascal - I can't believe he was there again! How horrible for you. I do hope he got the message - but if he's anything like me - it'll take him a long time. Hope you got some sleep. What's getting to you today?

Stuffed - you and rascal are both alike - the man just doesn't get it does he! When you are obsessed with someone nothing will get through to you - even if the other person ignores you. I have learned this. It does take time. I cld probably remember the Belloc - but I'm still hoping that some of the thread will come back... Why is the woman still in yr lives?

dp and are I are ok - - he's very busy with work and worrying about me - ds has caught impetigo from somewhere and so we're stuck indoors with antibiotics and in the night garden.

saw wife at rehearsal again last night - I was still in a mess - told her i couldn't believe she was being so nice and how she could even bear to be in the same room with me. She said she was getting through it and just wanted to put this behind them. He never did get back to me with the Marcus Aurelius quote - I guess he thinks it'll only encourage me.

Hi mummybb

I felt really upset and down last night and unfortunately I made the big mistake of texting him. It didn't deliver for hours and then he replied saying he'd been busy and in this text he asked me a question. I decided to play it cool and didn't reply til this morning. Then he took hours to reply again and the text was somewhat arsey! All the time he didn't reply I kept imagining he was with someone else and I'm surprised how upset it made me - he has every right to be with someone else! But then I got angry that he had turned up to meet me just the day before, why did he bother? I don't know, I have really mixed emotions today. I can't do anything. I feel like I've gone back weeks.

Im glad you and DP are okay. My DS has had impetigo before, didn't last long though

His wife is being brilliant isn't she.

How are you feeling?

it's so cruel of him to surprise you like that. He must know that he still affects you and that's why he is so persistent, while he still thinks there's a chance.

Try not to worry about the text - we all have moments of weakness. i do hope you get back on track - hopefully each time he does this to you, you will be able to pick yourself up quicker. I'd hate to think you are really back to square one.

The fact that you imagine him with someone else is worrying, but understandable - he affected you deeply - and you're probably shocked that you still feel strongly enough to get worked up about that. it'll take time for you too. Just remember - be the strong one - the one who is superior - and keeps her respect xx

I just don't get him. We were getting on well in jokey way last week and I felt great about everything. But seeing him changed it all. What I don't get is how he is so nice to me when I'm ignoring him, and then when he notices I'm weakening he turns all strange again. All this should make me get over him quicker though shouldn't it.

I like those words you used...be the strong one, the one who is superior and keeps her respect. I will remember that, thank you.

I don't think I realised how deeply he really has affected me.

I'm afraid to say that every time you share a joke with him or even make contact - he will take it as encouragement. He must be fully aware of the power he has over you. You are so much better than that, keep strong. xx

Mummybb hit the nail on the head again! - It is power that primarily motivates these men. Whilst we resond to them in any way, we feed their craving and reinforce their belief that they still have the ability to illicit a reaction - positive or otherwise -
from us. To that end, they play mind games: coaxing out our vestiges of interest in them when they know it would be better for us if they left us alone, catching us off guard and then feigning nonchalance to try to keep themselves on our minds. It's all a game to them, which is why the 'I'm Not Playing strategy' is the only effective one.

Sorry to hear you're finding it tough today, rascal. I think I have a fair idea of how you're feeling; your moment of weakness reminds me of the moment last week when I foolishly answered the phone and you mummybb were so supportive. Try to keep in mind that a stable and happy relationship with dp and ds and any kind of relationship with ex-om are probably mutually exclusive.

You seem very together today, mummbb, which is heartening. Don't think you should let your dignity to take too much of a battering though; never forget that despite his history of affairs, twatman's wife seems never to have given him any particularly compelling disincentive.

Re- KT's wife, I suppose she's still lingering because - given the whole horrible history - we feel partly responsible for her misery. KT has a long history of infidelity, and remember she is Mrs KT no.3, poor thing... I do feel sorry for her; this a.m. she told dh that, were it not for dcs, she'd "top herself".I don't really know how to help her, apart from avoiding KT myself and giving a sympathetic ear to her woes in general. Don't want to take sides, but think it would be cruel to ignore her.

Where is gracey when we need haiku therapy?!

Dear Sinful Sisters

MNHQ are not going to put back the original thread.

I'm so sorry

Sorry to but in but i think you are giving these men too much credit.

I really dont think they are playing mind games - i really dont think men are usually that complex.

My h ow accussed him of just that - he was trying to get through it as much as she was. He didnt know what to do for the best. He felt bad because he knew he had lead her on and so in some ways wanted to be friendly - to show he wasnt the awful man she then thought he was.
But he also knew it was best to avoid her (difficult as they used to work together a lot) - but probably looked as if he was being nasty.

Once a man has decided to stay with his wife - and he really starts to see what he has done (because up until then - despite what he may have told ow it is just a case of having it all), i do believe the thoughts of the ow are gone.

Also - do not always believe what these men tell you about their previous 'unfaithfulness' it seems to be a bit of a pattern - a line they feed the ow to make the ow not feel so bad iyswim. It somehow makes the wife seem even more 'stupid' for staying with them. My h told his ow that he had strayed before and then she could throw that at me later. She now believes me to be a silly cow for still staying with him.

Anyway didnt want to offend just wanted you to see it from another point of view.

Mbb - i wish my h ow would at least acknowlege me and my pain as you have - just dont expect her to always be pally with you, she is probably struggling too.

Hello sorry have been too busy to sleuth this htread. What? THey are not resurrecting our haiku? ARSE! I will have to write some more.

SOrry SO anbd RAscal that you have been having tough times with your persistent OMs. MBB you sound much more together this week, but kind of subdued. You keep avoiding my question which is this - when does your therapy start? You have a big journey to go on....but your wayward sisters will help you. I ain't a slag, so I'm not signing up for that moniker. In any sense.

Have been a bit preoccupied as my dd is very ill. I have a thread about it on here.

Watch out for poetry later, I am still on holiday and returning tonight.

take care minxes

Oh Grace - I just read your other thread - I hadn't seen it. I am so sorry to hear what you are going through with dd. I have nothing useful to add to this subject - as my experience of this is as an adult - I had CBT about 10 y ago and found it helpful for my dysmorphia - but other than that I am sending you love and support. I don't know how you manage to keep it all together with everything else that's been going on, and you are so good humoured and lovely and sharing with your time and support for others.
xx

and I have my first sesh with counsellor on tuesday - have lost the ability to sing - i guess that's connected - hope it's only temporary

It isn't power that motivates them
it is ego

They have crap self-esteem and need their egos massaged

Awful news about your voice mummybb - good job you've got the counselling sorted. Hope you're feeling upbeat and together today. Any chance of a Bellocstylie reprint - did it have a title?

Are you ok rascal? Suspect you may be going through one of the toughest parts. Stay strong; it will be worth it.

Thanks for trying to help HappyWoman. Unfortunately, some of these situations aren't quite so straightforward:

- Rascal's om is currently single.

-My om is constantly trying to convince me to leave my family to be with him.

-I know about om's ows from his wife. Her story concurs with his.

-Part of the reason wife wants to remain my friend is because he is trying to do to me what he did to her some years ago, (she is wife no.3 btw). She realises that I know what a b-s---d and a charmer he can be, and that mind games are indeed his speciality. In a way, we are allies: he has duped us both.

Sorry to hear about your dd, Grace. Haven't read the thread yet, but hope she's going to be ok.
Btw, I don't consider myself or anyone else here to be a "slag"; assumed it was tongue- in-cheek....!
Anyway, looking forward to more haiku!

I thhink it went something like this..

(didn't have a title maybe you can help)

The saddest Tale I ever heard
Was of a poor romantic Bird
Who loved and lost, and, here's the spoiler,
Became an ardent Bunny Boiler.

She was not beautiful - or gross,
She was not Glenn - or even Close,
But caught offguard by Handsome Twat
Believed she might just be 'all that'.

He was the most almighty Flirt
Perfection ironed in every Shirt,
And Sloaney Wife and big posh House
Could not contain this heartless Louse.

Upon our Heroine he preyed
Relentless in his lust crusade,
And soon she fell for his great charm
Despite her inbuilt Twat Alarm.

Into romantic Trysts he dragged her
Eventually, of course, he shagged her.
And all was well, as was his Whim,
Until she fell in love with him.

And from the moment that he knew
She wanted more than just a Screw
His Ardour cooled, his Courage slumped,
And very swiftly she was Dumped.

Of course she suffered, quite confused,
She realised she had been used
And turned for solace to some Mums,
Who acted as her Virtual Chums

And helped her overcome her Rage
With Words so witty, sane and sage,
That soon her Pain had been obscured,
Her Bunnyboilerhood quite cured.

And if you're sure this Tale ends well
Remember that there is in Hell
No Fury like a Woman scorned.
All Twats beware - You have been warned.

---

Yes, the Slag thing is firmly tongue in cheek - based on my experience of posting on this topic back in Feb. we can rename if it offends - gracey - perhaps you can suggest summat funny.

HappyWoman - I am truly grateful for your words here - I believe that you a right in that once he has decided he is able to put other thoughts behind him fairly easily.

It's not offensive to hear this. I know in my case that OM has only had one other affair in 22 years - but I think that was not for the want of trying - just that two of us were crackable. He comes on to every woman he meets - as w acknowledges to me last week. I don't feel she is daft for staying with him - she obviously loves him -for all his faults.

(Name)
who loved a louse and lived to love again.

Thank you so much mummybb - cheered me up no end!

Maybe that should be,

"Who Lov'd a Louse, but Learn'd to Live again" ?

That's brilliant. Just dropped by as I have a visitor, but am now officially a MNAddict.

Hi everyone, hope you had a good weekend and just dropping by to see how you are all doing?

I'm not doing so good, exOM won't leave me alone and I'm so unsettled and restless. I just want things to go back the way they were.

sorry to hear that rascal - what's he been up to now? more texts? calls?

Stuffed - I understand what you say about Mrs KT3. I think that's what his wife was trying to do before she learned the truth - stay friendly and hope nothing else will happen. he sounds like another right charmer.

Mine told me we have the power to change the thoughts that give us pain at any moment. I've decided that I just don't want to change enough to do it. But girls - we must!

yeah, texts, calls, emails, going from one extreme to the other. Really over the top, then hateful.

I mean what Toryboy's wife was trying to do - not expressed v well. sorry.

oh rascal - he's trying everything he can to win you round. I know the signs so well - he is doing what I was doing to toryboy last week. You have to cut him off. He knows your weaknessess.

He'll throw everything he can at you to get your affection back - it sounds like desperation. Take it from me.

Now the hurtful stuff - that's not good - he must know this will be horrible for you, but he's running out of ways to make you take notice of him.

Do you have to go to that place tomnorrow?

hurtful = hateful, not doing v well this morning.

yeah I do, but I'm going to go late afternoon instead of early morning I think.

How are you feeling?

empty - even went to church yesterday to see if it helped. I just sat there blubbing. . Saw him coming back from what I imagine was him playing organ at another local village church - he didn't see me thatnk goodness - but I did end up sending him a hastily written haiku thus:

Returning from church.
Spring morning, pink shirt, sins cleansed.
I wish I believed.

Now he'll think i'm stalking him!!

oh. Did he reply to you? I'm sorry you're finding things really hard at the moment (hugs).

no reply - sent it to his work so I imagine he's only just got it - he won't reply.

I think your are v wise to go at a different time - I really hope you don't see him. Althoiugh I am on the opposite side to you (sort of) i feel for you. Are you worried his behaviour will get worse?

Yes, I am worried but then part of me thinks that it's all games again. I don't think he can like me that much as he messed me around so much when I was totally besotted with him. Also, it's affecting my relationship at home. DH wonders what the hell is the matter with me (although he does know part of it now) and I'm really snappy with the DC's. I want to be on my own a lot.

I wish it would all go away, I can't believe how stupid I've been.

Plus, I can't handle the thought of him being with someone else....how flamin stupid is that?!!!

how much does your dh know? I only ask because it was such a weight off my mind when I told dp a little about it. i know you say you want to be on your own but now is the time to really start showing dh how much you want to be with him - so do try and make some time for this - I remember how lovely he sounds.

I like that you say 'when I was besotted with him' . All that past tense is good.

I can see you still must feel something for him because you've always said the idea of him with someone else disturbs you so much -

it's lovely to be desired, and I don't think it's easy to let go of that feeling - even if the larger part of your brain is telling you that's what you must do.

It's so complicated for you - I can see why you crave your simple life back.

somewhere there must be some scientific research into why women go for b'stards - at a very basic level. Any of you anthropologists/psychologists out there point me in the right direction??

Hi mummybb and rascal,

sorry to hear time is taking such such a long time to heal things.

Had a plaintive text from KT on fri; think I must be recovering because compulsion to answer is barely there anymore, but I must stress that this has only come from months of practice. I really feel for you rascal - sounds as if you're experiencing what I was until quite recently, especially the "going from one extreme to another". I've had to deal with a lot of that; don't think they like us very much; they just want us.

It's very telling that you can't yet handle the thought of him being with someone else. It's not stupid in the least - quite understandable - but until you have fully convinced yourself that you really are far happier overall with lovely dh, this will not go away. It's natural to crave the high that om used to fulfill. try reminding yourself that he was fundementally just taking what he wanted from you because it suited him; he would never care about you or consider your welfare in the way dh does.

very well put as usual stuffed - nice to see you so together today.

Now for the science bit - one explanation found here

I note it was a conference on amimal !behaviour..

Fascinating stuff, mummybb! - yes, surprise suprise: all comes from our primitive beginnings. Another reminder that all this type of man really wants is to perpetuate his genes. Had almost forgotten how KT used to plead with me to have his babies!!!!!!!!!

btw fogot to congratulate you on another excellent haiku!

thanks olivia and mummybb.

Olivia - you say the compulsion to reply is barely there anymore. I too felt like that a couple of weeks ago, until I saw him again. I really don't know why I even like him. He's not a nice person, he's no oil painting, but for some reason he's sexy, really sexy, and that's what I think I was addicted to. It's true that he doesn't care for me, or he would be leaving me alone now. When I fell in love with him all those 20 years ago, I walked away completely, because I knew he had a family and I cared about him enough to respect that. Obviously he doesn't. I am glad you are finding things easier now

mummybb - I can't tell DH all of it. He knows I've seen him and he knows that he now won't leave me alone. But I have stressed and stressed to him again that I know who I want. He is struggling a bit with it but we are making an effort. We had a lovely weekend away together. And we are planning things, and spending time alone together, which is lovely. DH is a wonderful person, in every way, I honestly couldn't wish for anyone better (gosh, I'm crying writing this!). exOM is a bastard, who only cares for himself. He's totally selfish and doesn't care of the consequences of anything. He is like a spoilt child. But yes, women do tend to go for these men!

Sorry rascal. He's never going to stop being sexy.
You could be describing my situation. We just have to keep away from them.

yes I know we do, time is a great healer! At least it gets more bearable anyway, even if the thoughts are still there.

It must be worse for mummybb though as she lives so close to him. I know that I can totally avoid him, quite easily.

Does yours live close by?

Yes, less than a mile away. It can be extremely tough at times.

Not sure what prompted it - but I've just had a glimpse of myself in the mirror (metaphorically) and I just see a needy, deperate, attention-seeking, pathetic woman.

what a wake-up! looking fwd to first counselling session tomorrow followed by play rehearsal from hell.

god he must hate me.

I think what prompted it was seeing how unhappy your exOMs have made you two - and how their actions must seem to someone on the other side.

somehow it seems worse for a woman to lose her dignity in this way than a man, but it's the same thing.

just feeling real now.

if they are anything like me at all - they will stop eventually - just you keep avoiding. It IS the only way. It's so simple it's painful

One gets to a point where one is just in a pit of one's own making. And the only thing to do is keep digging. Eventually you realise you cannot turn the clock back and undo the mistakes, especially once you know that they are personality traits of your own and not influenced by what the other person said or did. Quite likely they will be able to ignore everything they are told about it being over - because they do not want to believe it.

My goodness, I'm actually feeling sorry for them now because I am one of them!

Until they see this for themselves, that all is lost as far as this relationship is concerned, they will keep digging at you - hoping in vain to turn your thoughts back to how they were.

ah mummyb, I don't think you are like my exOM at all. It is obvious you genuinely care for this man. Whereas, mine I don't think either wants me or doesn't want me, he just wanted to know he could have me when he wanted me. I don't doubt he has feelings, but I don't think they are driven by love.

Let us know how the counselling session goes, I am contemplating it myself.

cheers rascal - I 'll definitely let you know how it goes. But you have said something interesting there - now I am questioning whether I do love him at all - or ever did. Maybe I just got off on the feelings of being desired and now refuse to let it go. Perhaps in my head this was transformed into 'love' - but I think others wld describe it as obsession.

Ooh I can't wait now for the counselling. And deeply regretting the sunday morning poem. x

Perfectly summed up, rascal.
Fwiw mummybb, I don't think you're anything like the ex-oms; I think you have more in common with me,(sorry if that's worse!).

When you come to terms with the fact that in an extremely needy moment you allowed yourself to be made use of -(I don't simply mean sexually) - but that this tosser doesn't have it in him to make you or anyone else truly happy in the long term, you should feel a lot better. No doubt the counselling will help with this - wish I'd had some!

You make it sound so much better - thank you

Still wish you could all come and see the play, and hurl drinks/abuse at torytwatorganboy - but it's really not that good - def. not worth £10. Unless i have a full blown breakdown on stage and start ranting and tearing the set apart and hurling props at him. That might be worth the ticket price alone.

That would be good value, mummybb!
But trust me(!), it's not going to happen: you've already realised that your dignity is worth far more to you than a bit of (negative) attention.

Anyway, now that we know he plays the organ, plenty of scope for some smutty innuendo and sme dodgy haiku, non?

Which reminds me, hello Gracey, if you're lurking; hope you're feeling more optimistic about dd's future. Miss you.

ooh you just reminded me of an old one:

cathedral organs
when played by the devil's hands,
don't sound heavenly

ta!

and unfortunately - he has a lovely one

that's if dw hasn't cut it off - I hope she has!

... come to think of it, KT's is rather wonderful too... maybe that's part of the problem. AAAAAAAAARGH

he sounds ideal - can you give his address

rascal - was thinking of you with it being Tuesday - hope he wasn't there x

Hi - was just about to post!

Yes, he was there. He was working in a building a few doors up and kept popping down to see if I was there. I couldn't see him as I was looking for his car and it wasn't there, but then as I left my work breathing a sigh of relief, he ran up from behind me and picked me up and ran with me away from the building. To be honest I whacked him I was so shocked but then we both started to laugh, until we both nearly started to cry....I don't do emotion infront of anyone though - and neither does he. So we just started joking about and then I went

How are you?

oh that's awful of him - I expect you left feeling totally confused and annoyed and thrilled all rolled into one - and he went away knowing he still has you in his power.
Grrrr... MEN!!!!

Can you go there on a different day??

I'm ok - actually I have been busy all day which is unusual - and now I have to go out to my 1st counselling session, tbh I won't know where to start

yeah I am totally messed up again now. It just made me realise how much he made me laugh and how easily we get on together. Even though I've been telling myself for weeks that he was wrong for me.

I can't go a different day unfortunately.

Are you going to the counselling alone?

DH said he was leaving this morning. That he can't stand what is happening. Turned out he'd been texting him from my phone, pretending to be me exOM didn't give anything away though, thankfully. He didn't go in the end, but he said he thinks we both need counselling, or that he will go on his own.

Oh my goodness! I am so sorry to hear about what has happened with Dh. You have been lucky there - and I think it's a good sign he has talked about counselling - this is a good opp for you to show him it's him you want. You really need to make the break - if you are strong enough and want ot badly enough I'm sure you can do it. Sending you hugs and strength!!! x

I am going on my own - dp is away - but it's just for me to help me cure my addiction to attatched men.

Thanks mbb, it is what I want - definitely -but I still miss him, you know. After my few weeks of feeling good about things, this past week has left me reeling again.

Did your GP arrange the counselling or did arrange it yourself? x

the waiting list was too long - I have arranged myself - someone in the village - it'll be just my luck she's best mates with Mrs Torytwatboy

hello minxes

Just dropping in on y'all. Not feeling very haiku-ish at the moment as am somewhat tied up with dd - mb did you write yours out in ROUGH first how come you can remember them all? but wanted to send good luck vibes to mbb on your counselling - have you managed to stop drinking and valiumming?, and rascal I am feeling for you...your h was v naughty to send texts to om, but he is obviously hurting, and I think counselling for the both of you is an EXCELLENT idea. Hello, stuffed! How are you?

MY ex om is now back in the smoke after a time away. He has been relegated to the back of my mind as a result of dd - an odd but fortunate side effect - but I am VERY AWARE that he is now within reach, and it is somewhat destablising.

Sounds like we're all going to end up on the couch.
What a day. Spent a.m. trying to work despite both phones intermittently ringing - guess who? Never leaves a message. Turned music up and managed to ignore. Stressed out by lunchtime and told dh, as agreed in counselling etc. Dh sympathetic, but persuaded me to phone om, with dh there, mainly to avoid contantly ringing phones during the afternoon.

After much discussion and deliberation, I went ahead, telling myself I was simply wresting back control of the situation and of my life(!). KT answered, sounding really pleased, and I felt a load lift off my mind as the conversation was quite amicable and fairly mundane. However, he wrecked it all by reminding me of how things used to be between us. When I reiterated that I love dh and that he (KT) and I certainly can't resurrect our bad old ways, he said, "Well, I'm just wasting my time then!" Needless to say, my self esteem dwindled at this since I was under the impression that I might be worth talking to anyway... Clearly been used.

Dh's reaction was a revelation from which I'm still reeling, that may have to wait for another post.

stuffed........oh no.........he really is a KT ain't he. What on earth did dh say. You are the mistress of the cliffhanger.

Nice to hear from you gracey; hope things are looking up with dd.

Sorry about suspense - not deliberate, I would love to have got it all off my chest last night - but dh hovering. Took several hours on and off to post what I did, hence lack of comment on rascal's unsettling afternoon - sounds like one of my nightmares Re- dh, would highly recommend Relate; think we might have to go again...

Hope counselling was helpful mummybb.

Back with update when I've got more time.

Morning all.

Olivia - I would hate to have to answer the phone with DH there, that must have been tough on you. I hope things are okay, update us when you can.

Grace - yes, it was naughty of H texting, but in the circumstances, I didn't feel that I could say anything really. But now I feel I need to keep my phone off or out of reach and then that makes me look more guilty! So it's a no win situation really with that one. Gosh, it is going to hard for you with him back around, stay strong girl! Best wishes to you and your daughter.

MB - how did things go last night?

Blimey everyone - how do we keep it together?
rascal - i would definitely go with your dh to counselling. You have to keep him in the loop and show him you have 'nothing' to hide - even if you do iyswim.

stuffed - waiting expectantly for the next installment. You still sound v much in control. And you never gave me his number ;-)

quick update on counselling - yep she knows them but only very vaguely - and she agreed with me about what is like with women! My problem - it's all Oedipal - apparently - but enough about that - I think I will find the sessions useful and would recommend to all of you and dps/hs.

Went to rehearsal - mild hysterics - w barely spoke to me. scraped car. mine - not hers.

Grace - not surprised you don't feel like haiking atm -
forgive me if I'm way off the mark, and I've just realised i don't know the age of your dd but does your dd ever write about her feelings? just wondered if she's inherited yr talent for writing and could channel it creatively??

xxx

Barely keeping it together and don't feel very in control, I'm afraid.

Dh's reaction was to reiterate that maybe life is too short and that therefore perhaps i should aquiesce to KT's demands, but without keeping it secret from him, dh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

- Yes, I too was incredulous. And Hurt. Then I realised that he doesn't really mean it; it's just a little game he plays to see how I'll react. He genuinly doesn't appear to realise how cruel and potentially destructive it is. Stalemate.

If anybody gets this tonight, please respond because I just can't stop crying.

Sorry if that last post sounded self-pitying. what I'm trying to convey is that the more I try to sort things out and make amends, the worse it all seems to get.

Hope everyone else is holding it together. xo

I think the others are off crying into their pillows.

Or flogging a dead horse.....

no, stuffed - I'm here tonight.

what exactly has upset you - is it that your DH can play games? Can he not see how you have rejected KT and are involving him in this.

Rememebr once I said my dp was always joking about me and torytwatboy - because I think in the back of his mind he knew i had feeling for him and maybe it was mutual and it was almost like he was pre-empting the worst consequences. Is your DH doing this - because he still feels threatened by KT?

xx

no, stuffed - I'm here tonight.

what exactly has upset you - is it that your DH can play games? Can he not see how you have rejected KT and are involving him in this.

Rememebr once I said my dp was always joking about me and torytwatboy - because I think in the back of his mind he knew i had feeling for him and maybe it was mutual and it was almost like he was pre-empting the worst consequences. Is your DH doing this - because he still feels threatened by KT?

xx

I'm convinced there is an email/post alarm in your house! Your here mins after there is a post!

it was a bit of a fluke - but I'm here a lot - so I can see what you mean Irish. i have become a MN addict.

Thanks mummybb - hadn't thought of that. You may well be right.

I just thought that since everything had been good between us for a while - even made love at the w/e - this wouldn't happen again. Thought, given all the counselling, dh had made more progress than this. So disillusioned. Don't know where we go from here.

You seem to have an addictive personality.

Your dh sounds like a decent bloke (unlike kt), I wouldn't be surprised if this was some sort of damage limitation on his part. he must have been very hurt at some point. i do hope that you can get over this - hopefully it's just a blip. your poor nerves must be raw right now and everything seems bigger and more damaging than it might be. talk to him tomorrow - be lovely to him tonight - and let him know you love him x

yes - I think I do Irish - and I just paid a therapist £38 to tell me the same thing last night

I would have rounded off to £40.

plus a few quid for the babysitter - I hope the cure is quick and permanent - it's gonna cost me a freaking fortune.

Prevention is better than cure.

And I think some things can't be cured.

in that case I think someone had better lock me up - it'll be a damn site cheaper

I have to go to bed - but stuffed - if you're still there - you keep calm - things always look worse at night - and I have seen a few of those myself lately.

keep strong x

Wish I could...he's gone off to sleep in another room. But thanks for re-setting my perspective. xo

then give him a lovely treat in the morning perhaps ?

talk to you tomorrow - pls let me know how things are - i'll be around p.m. x

stuffed -what your h is feeling is very rejected. He wants to know 100% that it is him you want. It is not a game he is just needing all the reasurrances that he can trust you.

By 'telling'you to go off he is 'pushing' you to the limit and if you do then he will have been proved right (and in some small way feel good about himself). Of course that is not what he wants but he is scared of giving you his trust in case you misuse it again. Hope that makes sense.

It is a long journey you have ahead of you and he will want to get every bit of comfort from you he can - even though it is so very hard on you. This is early days yet - if you are questioning your relationship imagine how he must be feeling - he dare not get his hopes up just yet.

Good luck

Hi Stuffed - hope you're feeling a bit better this morning?

Long lazy boozy lunch by the river is what we need....wish we all lived local!

Hi All,
Thanks for support; not feeling quite so bad this morning.

How are you, mummybb, rascal, grace?

HappyWoman, thanks for giving the other pov so honetly and non-judgementally - it really helps. I guess it may well still feel like early days to dh, even if it seems quite a long time to me. As usual, the only solution to the whole sorry mess is simply(!) to allow time to to do its thing, I suppose; can't be speeded up, and unfortunately everyone's timeframe is different. I must accept this.

Ironically, dh was far more moody before the affair, so I shouldn't be finding the ups and downs so hard to deal with. Perhaps the hardest thing is that when I instigate any shows of affection, (I am naturally demonstrative, rather on the touchy-feely side), the response I get is usually lukewarm. However, dh - as you've probably guessed - expects me to be full-on at the drop of a hat if he makes the first move.
Other areas of our life seem to operate in the same way. Is the some way in which I can make dh feel more secure without being trammelled and trampled myself?

Back to bury myself in work. Words of wisdom sought.

All i can think is to try and be as open and honest as possible at all times. Make him feel you are thinking of him.

Sounds slushy but give him a call/email just to say thinking about you. Buy him a small gift - treat him to something nice.

Run him a bath and pour him a glass of wine.... you get the idea.

Think of something that would excite you and try and do that for him. He will fee so much more valued - albeit for a short time.

And the tricky bit is to not make him feel suspicious - good luck with this one its a hard balance.

time is the best healer and we would all love a crystal ball to see what the future holds so we know what to do now.

Anyway take care and be good to your partners you will feel better for it i am sure.

Thanks for that Happy Woman, I have been trying all that with DH. The special meals, even booked a weekend away, nights out on our own etc. Now I know he's been texting exOM from my phone it's a bit difficult to leave me phone lying around incase he does it again but I suppose if I hide it I am just going to make him feel more suspicious.

To be honest, we are getting on okay at the moment

Glad you're feeling a bit better this morning Stuffed. I'm okay. Had a text off HIM this morning, really want to reply as I'm having a bad 'missing him' day but I'm not going to. I'm just keeping busy busy busy....

rascal - he probably did it because he couldnt believe you had finished it and 'needed' to find out for himself, you need to trust him too and it is not acceptable him texting from your phone without you knowing - try and be more open with though - but he needs to be open with you too.

Good luck

thanks - he has been going through my emails etc too. It is putting me in a bad mood bu