Mumsnet members get a 10% discount from Boden (including free returns and free delivery), The White Company, sweaty Betty, Luxury Family Hotels, JoJo Maman Bebe, Siblu, Blooming Marvellous, GLTC, Bump to 3 (the official online shop for Grobags) and more. Click here for more info Join mumsnet here.
having read all the posts on princesshobnob's thraet It struck me (prob because I am one of them) how may women are living with addicts/abusive men (does one cause the other etc etc!)
thought maybe we could do with our own support thread.
I have recently kicked out my cannabis head husband. It has been hard, but not as hard as livig with his dope smoking and verbal abuse (to me) and physical abuse of the children.
So much of what other women wrote reasonated with me; the wanting another chance; the lying; the erratic behaviour; the blaming me (you) for their problems; the financial mess; the wanting sex when high - when tbh you hate them and have never wanted it less; the messing with your head until you think its YOU with the problem.
I am a bit further on than some of you - its 2 months since my marriage ended,
but my H says he has now stopped smoking cannabis, he has found a job and starts this week and he is NOW thnking hes 'done enough' to be given a second (read 50TH) chance.
I am expecting trouble whan I make it clear that some thngs cannot be repaired however Sorry you are that they are broken....
Thanks lemonstartree for starting this thread I was amazed to see that so many on here are going through the same thing.
Can I just ask how did you decide that enough was enough and ended the relationship I want him to go but I can not seem to stay strong and always give in to him which is making me feel so stupid for putting up with this.
there rae lots of threads on here that i wrote as 'sosickoftheweed' and other pseudonyms that I cant remember - so this has been going on a long long time.
I was always aware that my h smoked cannabis, when we met it didnt seem like so much of an issue - he was single, and it semed to me that he had a joint in the evening the same way I might have a glass of wine.
over the last 3 years especially it just got ridiculous, I found him smoking weed at 6 am, at lunchtime, more and more. he smoked in front of the children (became much more of an issue to me as they get older , obviously) he became increasingly agressive - both in his denial that there was any kind of problem with his drug use, and more generally. he kicked the children with not reason, was always shouting and was very agressive with me if i asked about his cannabis - or about where all our money was disappearing to.
about 18 months ago he insisted on stiopping work to 'look after the kids' . well you can guess the rest. im not actually that much of a controlling person but the whole thing just got completely out of hand. he was extremely abusive and agressive to me about that time - so bad I called the police - and that was his 'last chance' on the aggresion front. We went to counselling, but his drug abuse just escalated (oF course I did'nt know the extent of it at that time)
the last straw was him hitting our 5 year old son around the head (and I mean hitting) and screaming abuse at him ' that he was 'f*ing evil' and trying to control me by threatinging the children, I left that day.I was so lucky that I had somewhere to go- my brother too me and the children in, and offerred us stability and a home for a week.
it was very very hard not to go back - I too have 'given in' so many times. I seeemed to need constant constant reassureance that this was right - and I was helped by so may people on this - and another forum - who reassured me and e-mailed me telling me of their experiences growing up with an abusive addict for a parent.
I did it for the children because they get only one shot at childhood and I couldnt bear them to look back and think I didn't love them enough to protect them from him
Hello - Can I join your club? I'm supporting my partner as he gives up drugs, I've got a thread about it down the list called 'I'm tired of stoners' (sounds a bit like yours, Lemon, I'll have a look for yours, it sounds like it might be an insightful read).
I've got an update, but I'll put it into my thread so I don't confuse the two things, in brief, he had a few spliffs over the weekend after several weeks clean.
Anyway, let's see if we can help each other get through the tough times as there are plenty along the way, it seems.
Atilla wrote most eloquently on my other threads in the past - and I can honestly say that I did listen - I just wasnt ready to act at that time. One of my earliest threads is from November 2005 - when my youngest ds was 9 months old. It took me almost 2 years from recognising that there was a serious problem to acting. In one wa I regret that, but in another i now have the 'comfort' of knowing that i tried as hard as I could
And yes, the postings by Atilla and other did open my eyes and help me to see that his behaviour was NOT normal and that not everyone behaves like this...
it is very very difficult to leave an addict - actually I think you only can when YOU too hit rock bottom - ie enough is enough and you KNOW that nothing you have ever tried will/can work.....
0y current problem is that having ben 'clean for 7 weeks or so; and having found a job my h now thinks I should have him back because he is different.... I am reading the lundy bancroft book about abusive men and am inclined to believe that he may ( and I say may) have addressed his addiction problem, bt he has not addressed his abusive behaviour... and the two are not synonymous....
Lemonstartree I read your reply earlier and cried you are so strong I wish I could find the strength inside me to leave him but every time I find it he manages to convince me that he will change.
The situation at the moment is that for the third year running he has failed to pay the council tax because the money went on weed not that he has admitted that but they don’t do they. I feel stupid and humiliated that this is the 3rd time he has done it and I should have really kicked him out when he did it the first time. When I found out for the third time I really thought that’s it I am not having it anymore told him to pack his stuff and leave .I felt strong that this was it, but then the tears came begged me to help him get off the weed so guess what he stayed this was a week ago and I have not seen him roll a spliff and I am just hoping that he has stayed off it but I have a nagging doubt that he has been lying. His mood was awful last week but I ignored it because he was coming off it but on Saturday he was fine which makes me think he has had some and tonight I went in the garage and found Rizla papers on the floor and now I feel sick for once again he has lied to me again or perhaps I maybe jumping the gun and thinking the worst.
Sorry for the epic post but needed to let off steam xxxx
I'm glad someone has started a thread on this. I was thinking of doing it myself.
I threw my dp out on Saturday after yet another drinking binge. I've done it loads of times before and when he came back I always gave in, believing he really meant it.
He had been really good for ages and I really thought we'd turned the corner, but once again he let me down and this time enough is enough.
This time it was different in that he totally scared the dc. It took that to shock me into action - he could do what he liked to me, but if he hurts my boys that's another matter.
I feel really lost and alone - part of me wants him to come home, but I can't do that to the dc. They need to see me being strong so I am all day, then when they are in bed I can fall apart.
At least I know I'm not the only one going through this.
Attilla - I'm sure you'll be along soon. You were so right about everything. I'm only sorry I didn't listen to your earlier
can I join too please. my xh was never physically abusive but he left in March after finding out he has been abusing prescription and over the counter medication for 11 years.
I just couldn't take anymore. His behaviour was becoming more and more irratic, the kids couldn't breath without him jumping down their throats.
I had alreay took him back after an affair 2.4 yr ago.
I just can't belive I never saw any of this, I always thought it was me with the problem and me that was unhappy but it wasn't it was him.
Don't even know why i'm writing all this down again but hopefully it will help someone realise that they are not on their own.
I hope we can offer each other support here, its vrey easy to be prescriptive about how we( the partnrs ) should behave, but so much harder to put that stuff into practice.
I am lucky in that I am not economically dependent on my h (just as well or we would be homeless) so I can support myself, the dc and the house irrespective of waht he does/does not do.....
Hello everyone - just reading your comments now and it's making me so upset for you all, I want to say something that will help but I don't know what that is... but I have got lots of hugs for you all xxxx
Years ago, my ex-h cheated on me and from what I'm thinking about my own dp's drug usage/going clean and what you're also saying, it's reminding me of how I felt way back then... the lies, the promises it will never happen again, the when he's going out, I wonder if he's seeing who he says he is or is he seeing his drug friends, the never being totally sure whether he means what he says or if he's saying it to keep you happy - god, there's so many parallels.
Lemonstartree - you said something brilliant: we all have different limits and only we know when enough is enough, though I suspect we stretch our boundaries to accommodate their behaviour, which stresses us out more. And, when you suspect their useage is higher than they let on, I don't know about you but my worry goes into overdrive. Also, you said about whether they know they have a problem and if they want to change. I spent the past few months thinking his behaviour was something I could accept - it was normal in his world as all (every single one) of his friends use drugs. Beacuse he'd use at all times of day or night, in all circumstances, especially romantic ones with me, it just became more and more abnormal for me to see him doing it and I woke up and realised I couldn't handle it any more. Just so you all know, I don't use drugs, I like an occasional drink, but don't even smoke cigatettes.
Snowhite - your post is exactly how I feel, you see the paraphenalia (rizlas, or a mirror) and you get that sense of dread. It's unbearable that they seem to put their love of weed or whichever is their addiction ahead of you, I want to know if its a conscious thing, or if it's an illness of addiction thing and they don't know they're doing it. Or, like Atilla says in other threads that we are enabling them. God, it's all going round my head in a big unholy stew.
Ginneduppumpkin - hello, i'm so sorry to hear about yor dreadful weekend, how are you feeling and how are you coping? Do you know where he has gone to? Has he been in touch? How are you managing to keep going? You've been a great help to me on other threads, I hope you are ok. xxxx
I'm feeling so confused, and drained and beaten down. He says he wants 1 more chance, that it is totally clear this time, and if he does it again he'll leave without an argument. He promises to get help.
I feel obliged to let him stay and see if he does get help, but at the same time I just want to get on with my life.
Last night he says I'm wrong to not give him another chance, that I'm failing dd by splitting up the family, that he'll get worse if he's on his own, that we'll all do much better together.
I hate loking out for lies, for rolled up tickets / bits of paper etc. He's got better at lying I think as I've got better at working out what he's doing. It feels like our relationship has shrunk down to me acting like Poirot, and him doing his best to deceive me and do what he wants.
He owes money to his parents and they keep on at us both about when is he going to pay them back. The last month i reckon he's spent all his salary on it, and I'm paying the bills from some money my mum left me, luckily we have no mortgage or rent at the moment, but I feel so vulnerable and uncertain about the future. I just want to be happy!
it is so hard to make the break, because the addict is so skillful at manipulation. and so very skilled at making YOU feel responsible.
I think it is easier to set conditions once they are gone. fwiw I dont think my h believed me whan I said that if he did this again (the physical violence to our children) it would be over. he now talks about being given a 'second' chance!!
Princesshobnob - if he 'gets worse' on his own then thats his choice....
is your money safe from him phn?
why not tell his parents where the money has gone ? let them deal with him.
When I kicked my h out I gave him £500 and told him I would not support him when that was gone. Given that he was living with his parents and had no accommodation or food costs, I though that was ok for starters. he spent it in 5 mins and is moaning now because he has no money ... Like most addicts he has no idea of the consequences of his actions.
I had so many e-mails fomr people who had lived as children in a home where one parent was an alcoholic or addict of some sort. I think hth loss of ocntrol terifys children and if you DONt keep tham safe then who will ? Its an awful choic between you husband or your children, but I think you have made the right one.
It does get better - once he has found somewhere to stay then it will get better.
You know, Ginnedup, when I was little, we grew up in a disfunctional house, my father was a voilent alcoholic and the fear was immense. I wouldn't say my mother put up with it as she would lash out at him. Now I've grown up, me and my brother both feel a total lack of understanding as to why she didn't move out/throw him out/ask him to leave as we were at risk. You have done by far the best thing you can do and you know you and your dc will be safe. You can't control him but you can provide a safe home around you and he is not part of that.
Thanks everyone.
I'm lucky too in that I am financially independent of him (council house in my name, my job,CSA from ex and child benefit will just about pay for everything). The difference with us is that they are not his kids, so its easier for me to separate them from this.
I too grew up with an alcholic dad, although he wasn't violent, it was awful seeing what it did to my Mum and I hate that I've fallen in love with one too - you would think I should know better
(D)P phoned today - very sober, and said he wants to come over tonight and talk. There are a few financial issues outstanding so we do have to talk, but I know he'll try to wear me down. I have got to be strong and not let him worm his way back in or I know I'll hate myself for it, but I still love him.
If I'm on here tomorrow saying he's back you have my permission to track me down and slap me!!
Saw your earlier comment to me - please do not worry about not listening to me earlier. You just weren't ready to hear it from a stranger with her blunt writings, that's no bad reflection on you at all. I am very glad you have now had your own epiphany re him.
I hope you can find the strength, courage and conviction within you to keep him permanently at arms length from you.
You will though have me back on your case bigtime if he worms his way back into your life!!!.
Gosh, you are quite scary when you get going aren't you
I will be strong. I feel quite in control now. His stuff is out, once the money is sorted I don't need to see him unless I want to so it feels like a clean break.
I have some phone numbers to give him and a printout from a local alcoholic centre.
Your first sentence made me smile. I'm actually quite placid in RL but stand for no crap particularly now I am 40 years young!!.
Good on you GUP and with regards to him yes, that is all you can do. What he chooses to do with the information you give him is up to him, you are ultimately only responsible for your own actions.
You are right.
I do keep having a recurring nightmare in my head that he'll die and I'll be at his grave wishing I'd spent more time with him and not been so harsh. This is basically what happened when my dad died, I gave up on him and refused to speak to him for the last year of his life because he was constantly drunk or on drugs and his flat became a druggies hang out. I know I was right to do that really and he was no fit state to be a grandad to the kids but I still feel so guilty that I avoided him and deprived him of his grandchildren. I think that may be at the root of a lot of my problems.
GUP, you didn't deprive your dad of his grandkids - he did that himself, by making the choices he did. You were protecting your children.
But I know all too well, that while you can logically tell yourself what's right, it's not always so easy to believe it truly, or feel good about following that decision.
But congratulations on making the decision, keep up your strength.
Unfortunately I am financially dependent at the moment, sort of. I mean I have some money my mum left me, and if we sold the house I'd have a share of that so would then be OK. But would have to find somewhere to live and at the moment I'm a sahm, with a place to go back to uni next yr. If only he'd really get help and pull himself together... but I struggle to believe he will because up to now he's even refused to stop socialising with people he admits lead him into temptation (and he does it without their help anyway)
Its all too easy to blame the friends but they are their own men and quite capable of saying no - but they don't want to.
I've got friends who drink more than me, take things I wouldn't take etc but if I don't want to do something then I don't do it. End of.
He's just left. I think I took the wind out of his sails because he thought it would be the same old conversation, full of promises but I wouldn't let him stay until he's got help.
He's going to make an appointment at the doctors tomorrow and we are going to make an appointment with relate too. I should be happy about this, but I'm crying. He was so lovely tonight - his old self again and it took every ounce of strength not to let him back in.
Why do I feel so crap?
GUP - it sounds like you are both doing some really positive things.
When you experience their nice normal side, it's so hard to keep in mind the reality of the bad side. You just wish it could be like that always.
I don't blame his friends but I don't think it's helpful for an addict who's at the beginning of attempting to get clean (as he promises to do) to hang out with people who may ask him to contact someone to get some for them, or do it in front of him, or ask him if he'd like some. Cos think it would be hard for him to remain strong.
Anyway, he's just got in, about half an hour late (I hate that even that makes me suspicious) grabbed some porn and gone to watch it. He said he hasn't done anything, but I think it's odd to come in, and your first priority is getting some porn on. No hi, how are you, no dinner. So suspect he has had someting or he's just not on same wavelength as me AT all. Maybe both.
Oh dear phn I don't know much about how drugs affect people but you're right - that doesn't sound normal. I know what you mean about being on a different wavelength too. When you know someone so well your instincts tell you what's been going on and no matter how much they deny it deep down you just know.
I'm trying to feel positive and I believe dp wants to do this, but there's that voice inside my head that says he'll screw up again.
Someone said futher down the thread that if we drink etc then we know when to stop now I believe that is missing in an addict - they just don't know or don't have the ability to stop.
As for having dp, dh back because they seem 'normal' or that you see the part of them that you once remember as being what you fell in love with. It doesn't last and they become accomplished liars and will go to extreme lengths to cover their tracks.
my dh used to buy cocodamol take them out of the box, wrap them up in his hankie and keep them in his pocket so I wouldn't find them. He did this successfully for 11 years with me only finding them literally a couple of times.
But what you have to ask yourself is a) can you live with the wondering everytime he is late home or goes out what he is doing.
b) can you afford when dc get older to know that this is acceptable behaviour, or that the children might find drugs, porn etc.
In my case dp doesn't drink every single day, but when he does he really does iykwim!
So the majority of the time he is lovely but its the monster he becomes when he drinks that I can't cope with.
The blame for this latest escapade lies solely with Polish beer being so much stronger . Of course it took 20 bottls of it before he sussed that!
Evening all, do you think that even if your dp’s got clean would you ever believe them ? I asked myself this question today and I am not to sure of the answer could you forgive them for all the things they have done, the lying, promises, the heartache they have put you through. Also once they were clean would you always be suspicious of them looking for clues that they are taking it again. All this has been running through my head because he has supposed to have given up but he is just to calm being really nice. I would have thought that it would take at least a few weeks for him to feel normal and a bit calmer and all the cannabis to get out of his system that’s why I am suspicious, went back into the garage to if the rizla is still there and it is in exactly the same place so maybe he has given up I just don’t know ! The real test will be this weekend as he gets paid so we will see.
hmm i have been in the position of forgiving him after he is so called clean and tbh have believed him. At times I have questioned him but have been constantly assured that i'm being paranoid etc.
When he left and he became clean because basically he nearly killed himself it turns out that he had only actually been clean for maybe 4-5 months about 3 times over the 11 years.
So for me I will always wonder if he was taking again.
Snow white I haven't got that far yet so I honestly don't know. I think you have to forgive the past misdemeanours or you will never move on, but I honestly think you will never trust them 100% again, you will always have it in the back of your mind that they might be up to no good.
I don't think I'll ever trust anyone 100% again though, as I've been lied to or cheated on by every man in my life, so that's just par for the course with me. I've got used to it now
No. For me trust is gone. My H told me all the time that he was 'cutting down'; hardly smoked at al; never smoked in front of the children.
all lies
that the money I could, SEE disappearing was 'in my mind'
that the smell was 'me being paranoid'....
he is currently hung up on 'addiction is an illness; its not my fault'
any thoughts ??
I say bo**ocks its still a choice - not like getting cancer...he has had so many choices and chances...
Actually I am very angry with hi for trashing my family and hurting our children, and I wont have it swept away as " oh dear I'm ill"
Snowhite - I think the canabis come down takes 2 -3 weeks with irritability, poor sleep and agitation. Its not awful lik e stoppping alcohol, but psychologically hard I think..
Re your comment:-
"I don't think I'll ever trust anyone 100% again though, as I've been lied to or cheated on by every man in my life, so that's just par for the course with me. I've got used to it now".
You don't have to get used to it or accept that as your lot in life. This mindset of yours can change with counselling and emotional work on your part (and that is going to be very difficult). You will need to unlearn the destructive relationship patterns you saw whilst growing up. After all, we learn about relationships first and foremost from our own parents. I think I have written before that children who grow up in homes where alcoholism is present can often go on to find partners who are themselves alcoholic. Many of these people can become super responsible for the alcoholic.
Princesshobnob is on the money here - your childrens' grandad made choices of his own volition. You did not deprieve him of his grandchildren - he did that on his own. It was thus taken out of your hands and you needed to protect your children.
Know I bang on about counselling but I think it will be very helpful for you to see a counsellor on your own. I've also mentioned Al-anon - they could help too.
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward has a chapter in it re alcoholism. You may want to buy a copy.
dont really know why except that I am tired. I expect som of the adrenaline that has kept me going until now is starting to fad away and I am left in the position of being sole carer for 3 young children, having a FT job, being pretty skint as a result of havig to pay for everything AND childcare too ( at least I'm not paying hundreds of pounds each month for his weed)
just feel flat, short tempered and hopeless.
everything is too much effort
kids are great but I cant be bothered today
hope everyone else is ok esp GUP and princess HN - stay strong !
Hi alls, I listened to Attila a couple of months ago and contacted Al-anon. They put me through an ACOA (Adult Childrent of Alcoholics) meeting group and that was the best thing I've done for myself for ages. I wished I'd known about ACOAs so much earlier. I listened to the problem and cried in total shock. There are quite a few books and websites. I hope this can helps. I'm sorry to hijack, I really wanted to say thank you to Attila and offer my support.
I totally second what Attila said in her last post, and also wheredowegofromhere, so glad you found some support from those fellowships.
My late husband was an alcoholic and I recognise so many of the promises and the emotional blackmail that many posters have shared on here. Difference is that I'm also a recovering alcoholic and it wasn't until I threw in the towel and sought help from AA that I started to recover.
My husband carried out one of his threats: he committed suicide 3 years ago. I felt enormous guilt that I wasn't able to help him, and ultimately responsible for his death. I do know now that until he was ready, like me, to admit defeat, there was nothing anyone could do. It was a harsh lesson to learn but that is that reality for an alcoholic or an addict. It's progressive and terminal if left untreated and nothing and no-one can do anything but the addicts themselves.
It's important for loved ones to look after themsleves in this, there is a risk of trying to be the saviours/rescuers, which sometimes makes things worse. Some people find that they want to support their partners through the recovery but you need the tools to do so. The best thing you can do is go to a 12 step based fellowship (ACOA, Al-anon are fantastic) to learn how to look after yourself. It's not always easy to break away from an unhealthy relationship, but hopefully you may achieve a better understanding of how you can live a more contented life yourself.
Well I know he's done it again. Suspected earlier as gave me money he'd taken out of bank but had kept back £50, and was sitting in room watching endless porn - either taken something or has 2 addictions.
Then this evening went out supposedly to pay for electrician for tenant, came back, straight upstairs to porn again. I went to go to bed - have to be in with him as my sister is staying, demanded he turn it off, he refused, turned it off for him - he's gone downstairs to watch it, so i checked his pockets and phone - found paper it comes in, 2 train tickets issued at a time he claimed he was with electrician.
Although I am angry, frustrated and underneath the rage, also deeply sad, in some ways I am relieved that he has done it now, as I haven't had any time to start trusting him again or experiencing his normal side, so this time I am determined nothing will make me give him another chance.
Only problem is I have family around the next few days and would rather not ave big scene of arguments and chucking out in front of them.
Don't really want to tell them what he's done either. Not sure why.
Lemon - I think addiction is classed as a mental illness sometimes, but it's definitely about choices too. Of course he could have made different choices, but like all addicts he put his needs/desires/addicition before anything and anyone else.
I can imagine how hard it is for you, but at least you don't have to support his habit anymore, and gradually you'll escape from the emotional burden that an addict is. I tink it is exhausting just coping with the suspicion, the doubts, the blame, the behaviour and the lies.
I am so sorry he has done this again what a twat. and after everything you said....... I know you expected it , but its still had isnt it... like every time my h said he would 'not smoke for a month' and managed 1 day ........
Can I sugges that you ask youself WHY you dont want your family to know ? are YOU ashamed ? because YOU ae done nothing wrong......
I never told a soul about my h's behaviour until after the first time he became really abusive. Then I told only 2 very very close friends (one of whom I hardly ever see) I think I was ashamed and afraid to start a ball rolling that I wouldnt be able to stop... ie if everyone knew they would ell me to leave him, which I knew I should, but couldnt face. Does that make any sense??
when it all blew up in August I fled with the kids to my brothers and then Itold him and then my mum and then everyone else...and that gave m e strength to stay away. Could you consider confiding in your sister and asking her for her help and support ??
Lemonstartree - I recognise that feeling,its how I felt on Sunday and Monday, like a bit horrible ache inside. Much as you are doing the right thing, you are still grieving for your dh and what might have been. I don't know the answer to it - I think you just have to ride through it till you come out the other end.
Kokeshi - how devastating for you. I've looked at the link and it makes a whole lot of sense - it describes me to a tee.
Princesshobnob - I agree with LST about hiding it from your family, but I know why you do it. Nobody except my Mum (and you lot) know about my dp. In my case I don't want everyone to think I'm a failure (which I know I'm not). I want to keep the illusion going for a while longer.
As for me - well I slept with him last night. I know I shouldn't have but I was so down and lonely and miserable that it felt right. Its only now I'm thinking "why did I do that?". I've put myself back on the treadmill again and given him hope.
He's not moving back in till he's been to the doctors and we've been to relate though. I just hope he still takes me seriously.
Hello. ive just been reading this thread as it struck a cord with me. lemonstartree you might remember me from an earlier thread.
my dh is an alcoholic and has pretty much ruined our lives over the last year although ive only been aware of the alcoholism for about 5. amongst other things he has taken three overdoses, one of which landed him in intensive care. he has drunk a small russian state's worth of vodka, been generally unpleasant and smashed things in the house. by august/september i was absolutely resolute that was it and i wasnt going to take anymore. he wasnt living at home and was really getting used to being on my own. its so nice to get up in the morning with ds not having to resent dh for staying in bed because he is ill and by this i mean hung over or still drunk from the night before.
anyway he seemed to turn a corner in september. he was like himself again and i agreed to spend some time with him. he bullied me into letting him move back in - he said i either let him come home or ihad to end it completelely. i wasnt ready for that so he came home. Big Mistake - thigs were great for a few days and i was sucked back into playing happy families.
within a few more days he was drunk and nasty again. it culminated with him putting his fist through the back door of our house. ds got used to him being home again so confused him and i felt heartbroken and let down all over again.
A few more weeks down the line and hey presto hes sober again - telling me he has changed and wants to try to get our family back to the way it was. i have said he cant come home to live but have spent time with himn and he has come to the house to see us.
i feel as though i am setting myself up for yet another fall but its so hard to move on when he is acting like the man i married again.
do you think people can really recover from addiction or am i kidding myself?? he is going to AA.
hi there, I do indeed remember you ! I'm sorry you have had such a hard time.
I dont know how or why some people recover from addictions -in that they dont drink/use anymore and others dont. All the 'dry' alcoholics I know (and I know a few in my line of work) take it one day at a time, dont ever think they are 'cured' and KNOW THAT THEY CANT TAKE ANY mnd altering substances at all.
my h was an alcoholic before I met him, and although he gave up alcohol he just switched the addiction to drugs.
I also think that the acceptance that you are an addict, and the deniel. ansiety, grief that goea with that take smore than a few weeks to sort out. I think it probably takes a couple of years sober before the addict is 'stable' and in a better place. Sorry if that sounds awful But alot of addicts are the same in that its 'all or nothing' eg 'let me come home or its all over' and they are not prepared to wait for anything - ie Ive been clean for 6 weeks so now we can forget about all that.
Mickeylou I wouldnt dream of teling you what to do, BUT what about telling you h next tiem that f he choses to 'end all contact with you' that is HIS choice. You would like to keep seeing him and haveing contact with him, but noT with him living at home. Try not to allow him to bully you into doing something that you truly dont want to.
I think I am in a different place to alot of the other people here. I dont miss my h at all. i dont think I love him at all any more. His manipulation makes me SO angry - now I am away from him I see it for exactly what it is. Ive got nothing left for him. So its much easier to be strong.
Hi everybody, I was wondering how are your respective relationships with their families? Mine has been non existent ever seen I said I wanted out of the relationship for my sake and DS. It's taken forever to arrange the finances to buy him out, so I think that they do not take me seriously.
They do not support me at all, maybe they are in denial about his drinking, however MIL has attended al-anon so I find this hard to believe. This is what SIL last said to me 3 months ago: 'Have you any idea how dangerous alcohol withdrawal can be, it generally requires help and a drug called Heminevrin for any one who is physically dependent . I do not see how you have helped him in any way.' Putting all responsibility firmly on my shoulders.
This is sad, for DS's sake especially. How do you all get on?
do you all get on?
My h's family have been fantastic. I am very very lucky.
I know they probably think that part of it is 'my fault' in terms of the relationshi breakdown, but they are under noillusions abou his behavious to me and the kids. My MIL saw some of his abusive behaviour lasy year and told me she 'was astonsihed that I took him back that time' His dad has been very supportive.
I really eally needed that at the beginning. constant reassurance that I was doing the right thing.
I feel sad for you that his family cant/wont see that you need support....
It's sad all around because until they see he has the problem they will carry on blaming me. MIL went as far as blaming me for his drinking once, saying that I wasn't understanding enough of how emotional he was and that he had very low self-esteem. As if that was enough to justify drinking yourself up to 15K debt in 2 years...
My dp's family all rely on me to stop him drinking. When he's good they say how lucky he is that he has me, when he's bad they ask me what went wrong - as if I can control it!!!
We have relate on Monday night - don't know what to expect really.
He had to cancel doctors as he couldn't get away from work so that appointment is on Monday too now.
When they were still talking to me and he was calling them drunk they would always ask me what was the matter with him on that particular day? I'm the one being insulted but was told I was not understanding enough. There's nothing to understand - feeling a bit low right now.
Another week's gone by, I'm kind of dreading the weekend now. He has a leaving do tonight and an engagement's party tomorrow. He's going to be drunk all weekend, sorry 'very tired'. It's going to be fun, fun, fun.
hi all, my in laws are not speaking to me anymore. we are in lots of debt which they expected my dad to dig us out of. they offered to "lend" us half what they expected my dad to "give" (nb my dad lent dh £70K to set up his own business before we knew about the drinking!) their offer of help was conditional on me taking dh back. i told them i wouldnt be blackmailed and would make a decision based on what was best for me and ds. my dad was less polite.
also my mil used to look after ds for me three days a week - she doesnt anymore. mainly because she took him behind my back to the hospital after the serious overdose. ds is only 2 (tomorrow).
i have been letting dh have ds on a sunday at his parents (where he is living)on the understanding there is no drinking. they have made it clear they want him more but i've had it with them at the moment.
his mother especially has always been so in my face and over the top about how they think of me as a daughter etc - they dropped me like a bomb as soon as i started sticking up for myself.
wheredowegofromhere i can completely relate to what you are saying. i have also been blamed for his drinking - they think its all caused by the debt and that i should have been aware of the extent of this. when i have tried to sort the debt out they have told me to stop bombarding him as they dont want him ending up in the morgue.aaagh! what they wont admit is he had a drink problem before he even met me. i see that now and think it dates back to his uni days. they know it too but its easier to blame me!
Sorry for the rant the topic hit a nerve or ten!!!
i hope you all have a happy weekend without any horribleness. love ML
Hi everyone. Just a couple of things from my experience.
Alcoholics/addicts CAN recover although it is always going to be "one day at a time" my DH is a recovering alcoholic and has been clean and sober for over two years BUT we went through hell - and he went through 3 x detoxes and rehab! Life is by no means perfect, we are broke (he is freelance and it is very hard to get work after having been "off the radar" for a few years. He goes to AA about 5 times a week - can't imagine him ever stopping now.
Mikeylou I feel for you. I had no support - pil live away and didn't believe he was drinking (he said he wasn't and they believed him, todl me I must be lying). My mum and dad (both now dead) were no support. My dad was ill, my mum used to say "everyone likes a drink".
It is lonely, even now, living with a recovering alcholic, it's a bit like being divorced. Friends don't know how to cope, don't understand why you didn't leave, done't understand why he didn't "just stop" and you never get invited out anymore as people can't handle someone who doesn't drink at their dinner parties.
Wheredowegofromhere - I don't know if you go to alanon but they would tell you you didn't cause his drinking and you cannot control it. I have recommended the Getting Them Sober website and books before. They were a lifesaver to me and my children. However your sister in law is correct - it is VERY dangerous for an alcie to go "cold turkey". Last time we were desperate to get my dh in to detox he threatened to just do it alone and our gp very quickly got him in to hospital! AA sayings - if you lock up 10 drug addicts and 10 alcholics in a room for a fortnight after two weeks you will have 10 very angry but clean drug addicts but you will probably have two dead alcoholics. One of the hardest things I went through was the time DH was DESPERATE to stop, had really reached rock bottom and I was "prescribing" the lowest level of vodka to "keep him safe" before he could go in.
AA and alanon are wonderul as you realise thousands of others have gone through and are going through the same thing.
GUP, I know what you mean about not telling anyone because they'll think you're a failure. I know it's him who has the problem, but I suppose I feel it reflects on me that I'm involved with him, that I've put up with it etc. It's so alien to me, I've never even tried a cigarette, let alone anything else. I hardly ever drink. No one in my family drinks or smokes, so how did I end up with him. When I met him he seemed so lovely. He still can be that man, but my feelings have been gradually eroded. Sometimes I feel he is no more than a lodger, and a very strange one at that.
My family have all gone now. I'm pretty sure he probably did it again last night - met a friend to go to a film, then arrived home at about 8 this morning. Found a scrunch of paper it comes in in his pocket, saw he'd called a porn line at 1.30am... he denies it of course. I've asked him when he's going as he promised to leave without an argument if he did it again, and he admits he did it the othe rnight. He just asks why I keep going on about it. He's celebrating his birthday this weekend, so it's not convenient for him.
I feel like a different person. Constantly angry around him, suspicious, resentful, I want to be free of him. I think an addict is immensely selfish, and that makes them incapable of having any kind of successful relationship
In my case, I've been engaged 3 times now and every time its gone wrong. I feel like deep down everyone will be thinking that if its happened 3 times maybe its my fault. Dp always says I'm a nightmare to live with so I even start to question whether I am somehow to blame. That's how they manipulate us.
They say girls always fall for men like their dad's and although I've always fought against doing that, somehow I always end up with these men, so it is something I'm doing, subconsciously.
We've got relate tomorrow. I'm sure he'll tear me to shreds in there and make it all my fault, but I'm feeling like I don't care any more. I don't even know if I still love him even, definitely not as much as I used to.
I have read your message with great interest. Following on from that I would like to reiterate what I wrote earlier to you:-
This mindset of yours can change with counselling and emotional work on your part (and that is going to be very difficult).
You will need to unlearn the destructive relationship patterns you saw whilst growing up. After all, we learn about relationships first and foremost from our own parents. I think I have written before that children who grow up in homes where alcoholism is present can often go on to find partners who are themselves alcoholic. Many of these people can become super responsible for the alcoholic.
You need counselling separately from him and I do hope that some sessions on your own are suggested. I hope the counsellor can help you. It will be very difficult for you but I think you'll give it a bloody good go.
Hi I haven't read all the posts here but I thought I'd mention FAMANON a support group for families and partners of drug addicts. check out www.famanon.org.uk for more info.
It has been a huge support to me over the last few years
whilst struggling to live/ support my partner through the toughest time of our lives.
i am tired of being strong, I dont want this life. Its not what I chose.
he is out there, atending his NA meetings. living with his folks, lying in bed all day ( at the weekends) and looking 15 years younger , and ALL and I mean ALL the responsibility for the kids/house/finance everything everything is mine.
I feel exhausted , ground down and unsupported.
I dont trust him with the kids, hes been far too horrible in the past. si its supervised access; and dont get me wrong I wouldnt have it any other way, but I am under such immense pressure that I think I will explode.
Hi Lst, I'm sorry to hear you're finding things so hard. I guess the only way is to try and focus on what you have gained form him leaving. It's bound to be hard adjusting to life as a single parent, but I think it has to be better than what you were living with before.
my partner is still the same. Did it again last night - celebrated his birthday, paid for all his mates to go out, told me none of them had paid him back, then off he went to lock himself in his room, after telling me he'd come home early for my benefit as I'd been sad earlier. I did something deceitful, and wrong, and texted his friends from his phone, as if him, saying I'd forgotten who'd paid, who hadn't. They all had paid at least partially. Although don't think what I did was right, I found it so empowering to know 100% he was lying left right and centre. So many times I've been told my suspicions are wrong - no, that rolled up paper etc is old, I called that person for someone else, I've lent the money to someone, we'll get it back, etc etc - it's hard not to doubt yourself and your instincts. I told him what I'd done - when he denied doing it, said how could he without any money, said I knew he'd had money. We argued and argued.
Only reason haven't told him to get out today is his birthday. He still doesn't get it. Still talking about how will be nice to have another child (had mc not that long ago)
Sorry for long rambling. Just need to get it off my chest
LST - I feel for you so much you poor thing. But you have done the right thing for you and your dc. Princesshob is right, focus on yourself and the children and remember how bad things were before he left - and I bet they were worse than this.
Princesshobnob - Now you know for certain he's lied and you have absolute proof (I know how it feels not to trust your own instincts any more, they are such convincing liars) then use it to give you strength. He needs to face up to what he's doing, he is treating you like dirt and you deserve a better life than this.
thanks ladies.... and you are right , things were worse before he left - in one way.... now there is other, different stress - and I do feel very stressed....
Princeshobnob - what are you planning to do next ? I so know what you mean about doubting your own eyes/sanity etc. myex h was a master at this.... but hold on, what you know is right IS right and he is just trying to manipulate you...
lst - I know things can't be easy, but you have definitely done the right thing, especially with his violence towards your children. Try and concentrate on that when you face all those other stresses. At least you now have control over your finances, and no one to let you down again, and again.
Have you tried the single parent threads for support as well?
Dp said he was going out for a drink last night, asked me for £10. Came back 3 hours later, wanting sex - saw he'd taken £50 from his account earlier.... same old stuff. He denied it, claimed the building society computer playing up, hadn't really withdrawn any money!!!! Stayed in bed till 1.30pm recovering. Last week he said he'd taken time off work, and we could use time to go out as a family. He's barely seen dd from lunchtime saturday til lunchtime today, and even then would have sat upstairs on compuetr if I hadn't nagged him to attempt to be a dad.
Told his mum he was still doing it and that I wanted him out but didn't seem to be able to get him to leave. He knows I spoke to her, is now worried what I said. Says he likes being with us, doesn't want to go, he'll go to a ca meeting on Monday.... sound familiar?????
I cannot separate him from what he does because of his addiction. I say horrible things to him, he's inviting me to watch film with him, cuddle up - I say I hate him, and that he's done exactly what he wants since Saturday lunchtime with no regard for us, how can he expect me to even like him.
I don't think my response to his behavious is helpful, but I feel so bitter and angry.
GUP - I know what you mean. I know I need to get him to go, but it's hard to stay strong.
But I only have 1 life, I don't want it determined by him and his behaviour. I can't control his behaviour, but I can try and take control of my life more
Hello everyone - i am so pleased to find this thread and can identify so much with a lot of what has been said.
I spit up with DP in July after 14 years because of his drinking. Over the years it has been like a canker in our relationship and I have tried so hard to help him out of it. He had long periods when he was sober but in the end I could not live with the deceit of it or that crushing disappointment when I would realise that yet again he had had a drink.
GUP I can so identify with you feeling addicted to him and your feelings of hopelessness and anger that, as the child of an alcoholic you have chosen to be with one. My father was an alcoholic too and one huge motivation for me in wrenching myself away has been to look at my little dd and think that by separating hopefully she will not be scarred by the endlees arguments about drink that I endured when growing up nor, hopefully, will she end up with an alcoholic.
He left 3 months ago and it's been very very hard as initially he was sober and back to his charming lovely kind charismatic self. Now he has met another woman who will probably try to fix him too and is drinking again.
I have been going to REalte to try to deal with the anger sadness and grief that I am going through but it's very comforting to have this thread. i hope we can be a support to each other.
I am in awe at how fluent you all seem - even writing about it chokes me
Hi. I remember you Zookeeper from one of my old threads. I'm so sorry things didn't work out for you and your h.
We went to Relate on Monday night and got a lot of stuff off my chest. I think it helped and although dp tried to give me the blame for his drinking, the counsellor wouldn't let him do that and basically said he needs to control his drinking or walk away from us.
He went to the docs too and he told him to keep a diary of everything he drinks for 2 weeks and then go back for another appointment. I don't think this is the answer as he can go without drinking, so unless another binge happens in the next 2 weeks (which I definitely don't want) the doctor won't know the extent of the problem.
He's really making the effort to do something about it but its so frustrating. We badly need to have more Relate sessions but they are £46 a session, so we just can't afford that every week, even if we could there is a 6-8 week waiting list and a lot can happen in that time.
Welcome Zookeeper - sorry to hear what you're going through. How did you decide to split up in the end? Was it your choice or his? Are you able to feel any relief that you're no longer living with an addict, or is everything still so difficult?
GUP - I think that Relate do have the ability to offer free or cheaper sessions if you don't have much money. i think it depends on what funds your branch has available. I went once on my own about a year ago, and that's what they told me anyway. I found the initial visit really helpful, to finally have someone to just pour everything out to.
Might be worth checking out any other counselling organisations too, as I think there are some that charge depending on your circumstances. Because however helpful it is £200 a month is a lot of money if you go every week.
Dp still saying he should stay here, things will be fine, we should buy the house together... I've said that if he wanted this all so badly, then he should have tried harder to change, but he just says, oh, i won't do it again, it'll be fine. Now, how many times have I heard that....
Thanks Princess - I'll look into that, although I think we will have to find the money somehow if necessary. Its too important to miss.
Your dp seems to be totally in denial about his problem, and the only way he will face up to it is when he has lost you. If you throw him out it doesn't have to be forever, but just until he can prove to you he can be trusted to stay off the drugs. I don't know much about it, but I would say he needs to get professional help with this, its too big to just give up on his own.
hi princess hobnob - I ended the relationship which is why he is so furious - someone said earlier that theperson living with an addict had to hit rock bottom too and that's how it was for me - the crunch came when we had a row one morning and, having broken my neck to get the kids out of the door and into childcare I drove past our local park and glimpsed him sittting on a bench with a can of special Brew at 9 in the moring. I cried all the way to work becasue I knew that I had to stop this for my sanity.
I do have days where I feel brave and proud and strong to have ended things and other days where I feel weak and ashamed and wonder if I could have done more to help. I miss the lovely person that deep down he is .
I was very upset to find thast he was still drinking, albeit not much after he left - I suppose secretly I hioped he would staighten himself out, get a job and beg forgiveness for the pain he has caused me . He is very angry and his postion is that we had a good relationship(!?) and that we could have salvaged it with couselling but I had -and have- got to the point that I couldn't bear the disappointment if we got back together and he lapsed again.
In some ways he has made it easier for me to wean myself off him by meetin another woman three weeks(!) after his departure but I still find myself worrying about him and wishing he would stop drinking. He was my soulmate for many years
Ginned up mummy, we went to Relate some years ago and it did help us both enormously and maybe would have done again but I just felt that I couldn't and wouldn't spend more energy fighting it. I am going now alone to deal with the anger and confusion I now feel - the first session was £40 but they have said that they have some sort of bursary to reduce that although I don't know by how much. I hope you can still keep going as that must be a positive thing for you.
i don't know whether to think that you should give up trying to help him or to congratulate you for not giving up - it's mad isn't it?
It's interestin to hear some of you say that noone knows about the addictions. I thought that too and have been amazed at the amount of people who have asked me if it was the drink when I tell them we have split up. I know now I won't go back to him because if asked I openly say that we separated becasue he is addicted to alcohol. It is not may shameful secret any more and that is a relief.
Zookeeper, congratulations on being strong enough to leave him. I think the problem is that you know what they can be like when sober, and you hope they will change, and that keeps you hanging on for longer than is right. After all, if someone asked me if I'd ever choose to be involved with someone who lied to be all the time, spent all our money like it was his, with no concept of responsibility for a family, was unreliable, sometimes uncontactable for hours, barricaded himself into rooms, smoked in the house (when high) etc etc - I'd laugh. As if! Who on earth would live with someone like that??? Yet here I am, over 18 months of living with him, and still putting up with it. Even if I am trying to get him to understand I want him out now.
GUP I think it's really great you're so determined to get the counselling, I think it's very positive. A psychotherapist I know said if someone says they can't afford therapy, they wonder if that person doesn't value themselves enough to find the money. So, guess it shows you value yourself, which is good news for whatever you choose to do.
I've looked at the families anonymous website. They say you need to accept that you cannot change the other person, you need to let them take responsibility for their addiction, let the consequences of the addiction occur, and set boundaries for yourself for what you accept. (Hope that's reasonably accurate)
Of course if you look at it that way none of us would give these men the time of day, but they are not constantly like this are they. The 'windows' in between when they are so lovely are what makes us stick around.
Zookeeper, I know what you mean, I don't know if I'm doing the right thing by staying with him, its just that at the moment splitting up would be more painful than staying with him. I'm prepared to give it 100%, at least then if it all goes wrong I can definitely say I tried!
There are many people who suffer from addictions, and in some cases their loved ones actually enable the addiction because they want to help. Sure, you want to help the one you love to overcome addiction, but you definitely to not want to enable the addiction any further.
Take a minute to think about an addict. They intend to continue what they are doing no matter what. Why not go ahead and get someone to help him with the addiction? You see, without someone to enable him, an addict would need to start dealing with all the consequences that his actions cause, which could actually bring the addiction to an end. Unfortunately many well intentioned enablers actually help to protect the addict from the problems that are a result of the addiction.
In some cases family members actually help the addict get the drug in a safe manner to try to protect them. They are afraid that they will get hurt or that they will go with withdrawal and so they go on to help their loved one keep using, which does not fix the problem at all. Some of the actions that may signal you are acting as an enabler include making excuses, lying, and helping your loved one to get what they need. This means you are no longer helping them, you are enabling them to continue in their addiction.
Usually this type of behavior starts out quite slowly over time and in the beginning is just behaviour that is used to help smooth things over. People want to keep their family problems a secret so they keep their mouth shut. Also, many times denial of the problem actually affects the enabler and they rationalize things away to try and avoid the problem that is occurring. Sadly, the problem will not just go away.
Once a person starts enabling an addict, it turns into a cycle. The person who is addicted never has to deal with consequences, and so they continue in their addictive behaviour. Since their addiction becomes even worse, then the enabler gets drawn deeper and deeper into the problem. Soon this turns into more chaos in the home, which an addict will use for an excuse to continue using.
So, how can you get this cycle to end? Well, while the person who is enabling the situation may be fearful and full of shame, at some point this will probably turn into anger. While they may try to bottle it all up, at some point it is going to come out in an explosion. They will be sick of excuses and they will need to decide to lovingly detach themselves from the situation.
This means that now there are no more excuses being made by the enabler, and suddenly the addict has to deal with the consequences of their addiction. In some cases this may lead them to try and find treatment for their addiction. Usually people who go for treatment either get tired of the addiction or they end up experiencing a dramatic crisis that leads them to seek out treatment for the problem.
It is important that you never protect a loved one from this type of crisis because you may be keeping them from finding the treatment that they need for their addiction problem.
"I don't know if I'm doing the right thing by staying with him, its just that at the moment splitting up would be more painful than staying with him".
Hi GUP
Why do you think this is?.
I think that Relate will help you more than him as he still appears to be blaming everyone else except himself for his problems. He's never had to face up to the consequences of his actions.
I have no doubt at all you will give the Relate sessions 110 percent and it will help you but whether it will help him is entirely another matter. I don't think he wants to hear it.
I hope as well you have counselling on your own as you yourself have issues that need addressing.
I'm the daughter of an alcoholic father. I seem to meet nice men with decent jobs/career paths, no signs of any alcohol/substance problems etc and yet within a year of being with me they've given up work to sit around drinking/smoking weed or whatever.
It's not just once this has happened, it's EVERY serious relationship I get into and I don't understand what it is I'm doing to make them do it.
I too met a man who appeared to hav everything going for him. I trused him with my ds, we maried and we went on to have 2 more dc's.
then he turned into an abusive drug addict who hit his kids. he stopped working, stole our money, stole drugs from my bag ( i am a health care professional) and almost destroyed me with his lying manipulation and emotional abuse.
I cant believe that I didnt see it coming.
I could never ever trust myself to make another relationship because i clearly dont know my arse from my elbow when it comes to chosing men.
never again
If you find out what it is that makes them like this then let me know!
Zookeeper - well done for getting him out...
no energy to say more.
beginning to wonder if I may becoming depressed with my total lack of motivation/enthusiasm......
Lemontree , your posts so describe how I feel - I have three young dcs and on top of everything have days when i am simply worn out with the day to day drudgery of looking after them and dealing with the finances etc etc alone. I do have good days but I have some days where I am on the verge of tears all day.. It galls me to think of exdp having a childfree life dong all the things that we did before chidren but with another woman whilst I am struggling to keep everything together. He's even joined a bloody private health club - at least he'll be a fit alcoholic!
I cope by going to bed at seven with them some nights, and trying to get out on my own where possible. Any tips would be welcome.
I'm ok today - I do have glimmers of excitement that I have a potentially alcoholic-free future ahead of me but do get feeling of overwhelming sadness and guilt that I gave up on him but it was so awful towards the end I had to stop it .
. Of course it took 20 bottls of it before he sussed that! 
