I have 2 ds (3 and 1), both of which have been v hard work. I would really love a daughter but am I mad to try when life is such hard work already? Is the jump from 2 to 3 even bigger than the jump from 1 t 2? Also, what are my chances of a 3rd boy? Don't think I could cope with that... Anybody any advice or experience? Any surefire ways of conceiving a girl

Well, I know quite a few people with 3 boys, where the mum confessed that the third was a very deliberate final attempt for a girl ....

My MIL. She has 4 fantastic boys!

I don't think the jump to 3 is as big as to 1 or even 2 (so I'm told), - but you're likely to end up with 3 boys!!!

There are things you can do to improve your chances but only really raising them from say 49% to 53% ifswim.

You can pay for private medical attention in the US where you go through something similar to IVF and they only replant the girl-fertilised eggs!

well i wasnt desperate, but i had always sort of assumed i would have a daughter one day. so i went for no3 and found i was daydreaming about her a lot... decided to go for the scan and find out as i didnt want to be 'disappointed' at all when s/he was born... and it was a third boy.

was pleased for my boy, but slightly heartbroken at realisation i would likely never have a daughter.

it was only when dp said that he would try again with me when/if i wanted to - and that it was not therefore a definite that it would never be - that i realised how much i had wanted a girl. now that its a 'possible', i dont lament my 'loss' and i adore my boys. (though whether id ever actually have another child is unlikely as i have neverending pnd and cant cope with the ones i have )

i think im gonna stick with my boys tbh.

Oh god, I was soooo desparate for a girl after 2 boys!!!

I got that book by hazel Chestermann Phillips which tellls you when to have sex. Apparently if you have sex at ovulation you get a boy cos the male sperms swim faster and get to the egg first. If you have sex a few days before ovulation, you get a girl cos the male sperms would have died before the egg was released, and the females, who swim slower, would be arriving just as the egg was coming out.

Whether this is remotely scientific or not, I have absolutely no idea, but all I can tell you is that me, my friend and my sil all followed the technique and got girls.

I have 2 boys, wanted a girl, but expected to have another boy, ended up with a girl, now 3 months old, am very pleased with her.

I think the chances of having another boy are high, and I think if you are going to be terribly disappointed if you have a boy then you might want to consider it carefully.

The jump from 2 to 3 feels big for me right now, but think I am still getting used to having 3.

Just be warned that you are slightly more likely to have another boy after 2 or 3 boys.

I thought statistically if you've had two children of one gender you're more likely to have another of the same.

I have two DDs and am pregnant with no. 3 and I'm 99% sure it's another girl - will find out next month for sure, though, hopefully.

I think if you have girls you have a better chance of conceiving a boy than if you want a girl when you already have boys!

Carrying boys can apparently change your ph levels, making it more favourable to boys in the future, but girls don't do this!

Blardy controlling men, - even at this stage!!! tut!

expat - You might like to learn that in fact, statistically, you have equal chances of a girl or a boy

This is because each outcome is independent of previous outcomes - not like drawing cards where previous draws decrease no of cards in deck and hence affect probabilities of new draw, but more like rolling dice, where probabilities remain the same at each roll.

So your chance of a boy this time is 50%.

Out of the eight possible outcomes for 3 children:
ggg
ggb
gbg
gbb
bgg
bgb
bbg
bbb

3 girls >> 1/8 probability
2 girls & 1 boy >> 3/8
2 boy & 1 girl >> 3/8
3 boys >> 1/8

so cote, and tired, if i had another - planned to concieve on 'right' day, i might get my girl afterall?
think i'll leave that for another few years... i really cant cope with any more atm (mine are only 4, 3 and 2 now) and im hopefully going to be studying soon so its going to be at least 5 yrs before i can think of another... i'll be 37 ish... thats not too late, no?

Starlight - If that was true (that having a boy makes it more likely that you will have boys in the future, but having girls has no such effect), then we would see a significantly higher incidence of boy babies than girls.

That is not the case. In fact, girls are slightly more frequently than boys, except in times of war, which has led some scientists to speculate that a restricted diet (i.e. near starvation) leads the body to produce more boys (so they go hunt food, presumably).

Actually, I thought that the environment of the mother's body made a difference as to whether X or Y sperm were favoured, as they are different (Y are lighter as they don't have as much genetic material in them). But nothing is 100% and it's still a crap shoot, however you look at it.

PS - DSS girls are not necessarily easier. I speak from experience.

NappiesGalore (now I see where you got the name from ) - I believe in the theory that tired wrote about. DD is conceived on 11th day of ovulation on a 32 day cycle . I didn't think I could get pregnant on 11th day.

Since then, I've been asking friends for their conception dates, and sure enough, girls are conceived early in the cycle and boys are conceived later, after ovulation.

My mother said that is how my brother was conceived after me, so this theory is not new.

We were discussing this at playgroup, someones parents were one of 11, their grandma had had 11 boys before getting a girl, can you imagine? A whole football team of them.. There was something in the news recently that said if you ate more cereal you are more likely to have a girl, girl sperm swim slower but survive longer so you can time sex to improve chances of getting the sex you want.

Cote DAzur: (relating to your first post, not the one to Starlight)

That is assuming that each couple has an exactly 0.5 change of a girl or a boy being conceived/born each time, isn't it?

If, say, some factors (say the maternal cervical pH thing, or some undiagnosed chromosomal factor in the father) meant that for any particular couple the odds would be naturally skewed very slightly one way or the other, then if you had two of one kind already it could be an indication that you were skewed one way or the other, or it could not. You should then be able to do some kind of Bayesian analysis that would show that if you have two of one kind then your chances of having a third of that kind are very slightly more than 50%.

That is assuming that there did exist innate factors to skew the likely gender, on which I make no comment as I have no idea. But if there were such factors, then you would expect a gg or bb family to end up with ggg or bbb very slightly more often than ggb or bbg. Whether that is in fact the case ought to be able to be established as a matter of fact.

Mrs - I agree with you that girls are not necessarily less work. Mine is a handful, and has been from day 1.

I'm not sure about your statement on 'environment' of mother's body, though. What does that really mean? I read a bit about pH levels and how what you eat can change them on some baby websites, but never in any scientific source. If it has any real effect whatsoever, I doubt if it is as noticeable as claimed in some websites.

Male sperm have exactly the same amount of genetic material as female sperm, by the way. They are both gametes with 23 chromosomes - i.e. they are haploid, as opposed to the other cells of the body which are diploid.

my parents did.they had four girls.

The Y chromosome is a lot smaller than the X chromosome. It may not seem much compared to the other 22, but it's how sperm selection was done (so they still do it?)- using the slight difference in weight.

(although, relating to your post to Starlight, significantly more boys than girls *are* born each year in the UK.

i have no idea when in my cycle i conceived. i had only one cycle after my ERPC and it was llloooonnggg.

i have no idea when in my cycle i conceived. i had only one cycle after my ERPC and it was llloooonnggg.

No
And to be honest it pissed me off when I was pregnant with DC3 that everyone nodded sagely and said 'ooh are you hoping for a girl now'
I wasn't . I actually probably would have preferred another boy. But I just wanted a happy smily babe.

( yes. DC3 was a girl)

Port - I would be interested to see any real studies on the maternal pH theory. Are there any? I've only ever seen references to it in baby websites, never in serious scientific sources.

"Innate factors" - like what? I'm not sure if any propensity to make babies of a single gender is ever diagnosed. I would be interested to read about it, though, if anyone can post a link to a reputable source.

As I said before, there is a 1/8 chance of having three girls in a row. That doesn't necessarily mean the mother has a rare condition, it just means that she is unlucky if she wanted a boy or two.

When you roll dice, you have 1/36 chance of getting two 6s. It doesn't happen often but it does happen. And not because the dice have an 'innate factor'

have conceived a boy and a girl 5 years apart, at the same time in my regular 28 day cycle.

i did want a girl, especially as we had decided we did not want 3 children, and i have a lovely strong relationshp with my mum whihc i very much wanted to have with a daughter of my own

when we started TTC, i realised i just wanted a baby!

was blessed with a lovely little girl, but had i had another boy , i would have actually been more inclined to have anotehr as i think 3 boys would be ace !

it is lovely doing the pretty clothes blah blah blah but that is not the be all and end all

have a 3rd if you want a 3rd child not a girl, IFYSWIM.

Mrs - Yes, Y chromosome is smaller. No, it does not contain less genetic material.

Aha! Just checked and now it's more common to use flow cytometry - where they use a dye that binds to DNA and then sort the sperm according to how much dye is taken up (the X sperm take up more, obviously).

cote - actually there really is a statistically slightly higher chance of having another of the same sex when you have had 2 or more of one sex (either sex), despite the fact that the chromosomes should always segregate independently. It's not clear why this is - but there are a number of studies on it. The odds are only slightly altered though.

I once knew someone who tried the have a baby girl diet and now has 3 boys!!! My dh's grandma was one of 12....11 girls and finally 1 boy. An old work collegue gave up trying for a boy after 6 girls.
With each pregnancy you have the same odds of concieving a girl or boy as you did with the last and will do with the next. What sex you had last time has no bearing on what you will have next time.
A Mother and Baby magazine I bought when I was execting ds2 had a chart in it which predicted the sex of your baby based on mums age at conception and the month of conception. Don't know what happened to it but it was acurate for everyone I tried it with.

Cote - the Y DOES contain less genetic material! There are over 10 x as many genes on the X.

I am aware of that, CdA.

But take an obvious example -- the mother is a carrier of something x-linked that is fatal to a male foetus. Each male embryo will have a 50% chance of being affected. So you'd expect that couple to have more full-term live birth girls than boys. No reason you can't have other genetic factors that aren't so cut-and-dried, one-way-or-the-other, definitely-live-or-definitely-die, but that skew the odds very subtly one way or the other (say 48-52, or 49-51). If so then there would be an overall statistical effect that would make it slightly more likely that a family with two of one sex would have a third child of the same sex than that they would have a third child of the other sex.

You state that there is a 1/8 chance of having three girls in a row. That is true if the odds each time are exactly 50 - 50. If they aren't -- if they are very slightly skewed for some reason -- then the odds could be 0.1248 or 0.1252.

Given that the overall odds do seem to be skewed, with 1.02 boys being born for every girl, it seems unlikely that the odds of having three girls will be exactly 1/8. They will be as near to 1/8 as makes very little difference, though.

I think the route to happiness would actually lie in being happy and content with the children you have.

I have two boys. Before I had them I would proably have liked at least one girl, but now I have accepted that life has given me somethng else, not what I would have ordered, but so wonderful it would feel churlish to me, to hanker after somethng else.

I know this won't make me popular, and I don't mean to say it harshly, I genuinely believe you will be happy if you can appreciate what you do have rather than longing for something you don't. Truly.

So only have a baby if you wany a baby, a child, a person, otherwise you set yourself up for more disatisfaction. What if it;s another boy? Or a really difficult girl? or a tomboy? or another bot after that?

Our ideals are rarely fulfilled, so it's much healthier to enjoy the blessings you do have.

Easier said than done I know, but I would throughly recommend striving for that rather than 'a girl'.

I read something recently about the levels of maternal testosterone having an effect on the gender of her baby. Women with higher testorerone levels are more likely to conceive boys, those with low levels will have girls. Most women are somewhere in the middle and slight hormonal fluctuations mean they can conceive either boy or girl.
The media framed it as 'stronger, more aggressive/successful women have boys, 'softer', more empathetic women have girls'. I'm sure the sociologists will have a field day with this explanation...

I am a stroppy successful woman with 2dd's and expecting dc3.

Quite happy to have a boy or a girl - although would be easier to have a girl as have all the stuff. My sis has 2ds's and isn't putting her stuff on Ebay in case I have a boy!

Is it just people who have 2ds's hanker after a baby of the other sex - or are there some people with 2dd's that want a boy.

(pondering emoticon)

Everyone will assume you're going for the girl whether you are or not.

Friends of mine with 2 dds or 2 ds who were pregnant with the 3rd got fed up of all the "so is this the girl/boy this time time?" comments.

We were glad to have a dd and a ds, only because when pregnant with number 3 (another dd) we didn't get those silly comments. We did get "Why are having a third when you've already got a girl and a boy?!" Because we actually want another child....!?

Only read your OP but you must not do this unless you can love and accept a third boy - there is at least a 50% chance that this is what you will have. If you are desperate for a girl, consider adoption.

Wow, what an interesting lot of replies. The general consensus seems to be that I'm quite likely to have another boy... Lavenders, your message struck a real chord, as I know I should really be counting my blessings having 2 healthy children. DH is always saying this to me and thinks I'm becoming obsessed with the girl thing. How do I let go of it though? I can't bear the thought of being the only female in a houseful of men for the rest of my life

Isn't it funny how differently people feel about being outnumbered? I only have a son and won't have any more, but if I'd started younger I'd have loved a houseful of boys, having grown up with three sisters.

I only wanted girls and DC1 was a girl. She was followed by DS1, DS2 and DS3. DS3 was only born because it was our last try for another girl

Flash forward 15 years. Experience of having 3 teenage boys very positive, and teenage girl very negative. Cue accidental pregnancy. Expecting DS4 but out comes DD2. Initial reaction was disappointment

It is human to have a preference but you need to be sure you will be happy with the baby if it turns out to be the "wrong" sex. (It's bizarre to have a girl again, but we're enjoying it)

TwoCurlyWurlies - I have had this comment too. Have a DS and DD and pg with 3rd and some people seem surprised that I want another as I have "1 of each". Though I suppose this is not as annoying as all the comments if you have 2 of one sex and everyone assumes you are trying for the other. I get lots of comments like "I suppose you don't mind what it is as you have a boy and girl" - I wouldn't mind either way anyway though.

To the OP, I can understand why you might be afraid of being outnumbered by men, but little boys are so affectionate and sweet. My DD, although completely lovely, is much harder work than my DS. Having a DD doesn't mean they will be less of a handful! YOu will just have to make sure you are a lovely MIL to your future DILs and you can have some female company later on!

Well I have a DS and a DD and when I got PG with my DC3 lots of people assummed it was accident wheninfact I really wanted another baby. Plenty of people with 3 or more kids have them because they want them, not because they have 2 DC the same sex and want the other sex as well.

If you want another baby, have another baby but not jsut because you feel fate has you hard done by.

I've got two DDs and am pregnant with number three. We've always wanted 3 DCs, irrespective of the sex, though I was very happy to have girls. If I could choose the sex of the third, I would choose a boy, partly for novelty sake, partly becasue the idea of three teenage daughters seems quite scary and partly so I could knit some cute little boys' clothes

But really don't mind, as long as baby is healthy )

If you're really having a third in order to have a particular sex, you are possibly setting yourself up for major disappointment!

DSS, it's hard to let go of something once you have become so focused on it, I know just saying it dosn't mean you can do it.

I wonder why you are so disastisfied? You mention your boys are hard work, maybe it's your experience so far with them that you are struggling with and have an idea that it would be esaier/better/happier with a girl? If there is some truth in this, then it would be better to think about how you can become more satisfied and work towards making things easier and more enjoyable. The more you can enjoy your boys the less you will feel you are mssing out.

I also think you have to start to accept the life you have and stop focusing and dwelling on the things you don't have. Stop the thoughts about what you are missing and daydreaming about what it could have been like and start focusing your thinking on the good things about what you do have.

Are your boys affcetionate? think about the special bond mothers have with boys, how often they are more vulnerable and need you more, about what simple and striaght forward ceatures they are, about what funny strapping young men they will be who will compare all women against you and how you will fiercly defend them against all potential heartache, how as men they will want to protect their Mum and take contraol and sort things out for you etc etc (others feel free to add to this list).

there are things you won't get to do if you don't have a daughter, but let them go and try to focus more on all the wonderful things you do have.

become more concious of your thougts, try to stop the dwelling, it will be hard at first but if you can start to change how you think about your situation you will start to change how you feel about it (ask any CBT counsellor) and will find you can become happy with what you have.

If this sounds flippant, it is certainly not meant to, I know how hard it must be

i have three boys after hoping for a girl(but not fiercely). I had a lot of ups and downs when PG (knew sex 'cos of amnio results), the main cause of angst was that I know lots of couples with two babies of one gender who had a third of the opposite gender around the time I was expecting DS3, I am the only one who had three boys! I now realise that what i wanted was a child who was even a little bit like me in personality and interests(DS1 and DS2 are like DH), as DS3 has grown older I realise that he is much more like me than the other two and I really enjoy this, I rarely daydream about girls now.
One problem we have tho'(was just about to post about it when I saw this thread actually) is that having three boys causes problems as the oldest boy contrasts the amount of time his friends (who are only sons) spend with their dads compared to the amount of time his dad manages to spend alone with him. This time is limited becuase DH is shared between three boys. His friends seem to come from families where Mum goes off with the girl and Dad goes off with the boy, DS1 gets very cross about it and makes DH v. upset

the jump from 2 to 3 is pretty big I think, with 2 you have one each to look after but with 3 there is always this extra one to deal with!!!

BTW wasnt desperate for a girl but thought it was worth a try, think my name gives away how successful I was!

deperatelyseekingsleep, I have a girl after 2 boys, and she insists she's a boy, will ony wear boy PJ's, and says dresses are for babies. She's not yet 3. If you want a girl for girly reasons, you could be disapaointed.

Also, I know someone who was desperate for a girl, so had a 3rd (boy), then a 4th (boy) then a fith (boy), so she tried again. You've guessed it, she now has 6 boys.

If you couldn't cope with a 3rd boy, don't go there! I found the jump form 2 to 3 HARD.

just flew in to say I misread girl as 'pee' (WTF?)

I'll go now.

<3 boys>

I was my mums token girl after 2 boys, and wasnt the least bit girly, wouldnt wear dresses and played with my brothers toys. dont think my mum has ever forgiven me!

Cote the Y chromosome DOES have less genetic material. This is why you can have sex-linked conditions that only boys get as they have a geen for that condition on their X chromosome that is not also on their Y chromosome and therefore they have the condition - in girls if they have that gene it can be counterbalanced by an opposing one on the other X.

I have 2 boys. I tried Hazel whatever her name is method to try and get a girl the second time and it didn't work. Actually coming up to my 20 week scan when we found out I started to think that actually I would like another boy as I think in a lot of ways having 2 the same is lovely for them. Sure I would have been happy with either.

I do think about trying for a girl. But I think you should really only do this if you would be able to be happy with another boy. Nothing wrong with having a prefernce and grieving for the daughter you will never have. But I think you need to know that you would get over it before the baby arrived and not be in a position where you felt you couldn't cope with a 3rd boy. Hardly fair on that child is it?

There are theories about how diet and douching - as well as timing and position - can change the vagina's 'environment' and make it more hospitable to either xx or xy sperm. However, whilst it might be ok to lightheartedly try to manipulate the outcome (as I admit I did in the first month when ttc 2nd dc), I knew I'd be delighted with boy or girl as long as they were well.

Its a gamble. My aunt had 7 children. The first 5 were girls and the last 2 boys. I think if she'd had a boy sooner she'd have hd less children overall IYSWIM

Hmm. Would rather like a girl, I think, not sure, don't feel complete with just two boys.
But I am afraid I wouldn't like her, I always think of myself as a little girl and I didn't feel like I was liked

I know someone who has just had her 5th boy because she keeps trying for a girl. He is 2 months old, and she is now talking about number 6!

I think you need to make sure you really want a baby rather than a girl or a boy, or you could end up very disappointed.

Yes, the emphasis for me now must be to concentrate on being happy with my lot and stop grieving for the girl I'll probably never had. If I go for a 3rd I need to be 100% sure I wouldn't mind what sex it is. Think I may need counselling to get over this! My two boys have both been very hard work so far, and I'm sure this contributes to the feeling that if they were girls life would be a lot easier. Also, I'm not a very outdoorsy/physical person, so all that running around to use up energy doesn't really do it for me. I'd much rather be sitting inside playing with barbie dolls...

Desperatelyseekingsleep, Not very helpfully, I just wanted to say that I completely empathise. I have 2 sons. When I had the 20-wk scan for my DS2, I asked to find out the sex and they said, "I think it's a girl." I burst into tears! I realised how desperately I'd wanted to have a daughter. Then my tears were interrupted when he said, "Ooops, nope, sorry. Definitely a boy."

I also hate all the sporty stuff, and boys' fascination with things like torches, insects, magnifying bloody glasses, their willies, hitting, Transeffingformers, etc.

I don't know if I have time for a 3rd (I'm 37 now), so am trying to think of myself as the Queen of the house. They all need me so much.

I have a wonderful relationship with my mother, and I'll miss not having another female around to giggle with. But I don't think girls would necessarily be easier so we should both stop moaning and instead, concentrate on turning our sons gay.

We know of someone who had 3 boys ... tried once more as 4 boys would have been ok but were hoping for a girl ... and had natural triplet sons!

I have boys of 11 and 8 and an (adopted) daughter of 3. The boys when little were much as you describe, but are really interesting creatures now and we have great conversations.

My daughter, whilst not as physical as the boys is challenging in a very different way that I think is quite typical for little girls and that is that she TALKS non-stop and expects answers the whole time. She finds it difficult to go into her own little world to play as the boys used to, because she is so curious about other people and what they're up to or what she might be missing. In some ways it's more exhausting, though it could just be that I'm a lot older this time round.

I think it's a mistake to assume that girls are easier!