My DD is almost 10 and my DS is 18 months. He is no longer in his bath seat, so I have invested in a bath mat and pop both kids in the bath together. My lil boy LOVES playing anf splashing his sister, and he never stands up or messes about - she just plays with him. I leave them in there for around 15 minutes whilst I fly about the house making milk, popping tea on, tidying up etc.. ( single parent, so only me to do it! ). My DD is very sensible and they love having a dip together - as soon as I get him out, she tops up the water, grabs her book and has a soak.
I have done this for some months now and can always hear them, would be alerted in a moment if there was any problems and am always in close proximity. However, I mentioned this to a friend who was horrified! She thinks I am taking a risk. I don't - well, obviously I don't, or I wouldn't be doing it! But, it kinda made me curious... what would YOU do ??

I wouldn't leave them totally alone for 15 minutes but I might potter about and talk to them the whole time asking if they are both okay.

I'm sure they'll be fine, sounds as tho' they're in earshot so you'd soon know if thre was a prob

Nah, they're not totally alone - I'm around and about. I mean, you know your own child don't you ? I trust her.

Mine are roughly the same ages-Ds 9.9 and Dd almost 17 months. Single mum too. Yes I would, though I haven't as Ds has showers, but I would definitely do it. Almost 10 is quite a responsible age for a 15 minute splash about and it is old enough that they know right from wrong, as in if the lo slipped or the like, they'd know to call you. I think it's fine...Just my opinion though, it's got to be an individual decision.

I do the same thing. flip about tidying up rooms, never far from the bathroom and actually the only tiomes thgere has been an incident dd2 fell into the water i was actually in the bathroom and ds had sorted it before i got to the side of the bath, bathroom very small, being in DCs room probalby nearer than other people's bathrooms!!!

I leave my nearly five year old and 2.5 year old in the bath while I tidy up, start dinner etc
I am popping up and down the stairs all the time.
dd1 would shout if there was a problem and I can always hear them.
I wouldn't pop to the shops or anything
so your situation sounds fine
can't see why your friend was horrified tbh

yes I would leave them in the bath together.I'm sure you would hear/ your 10 year would let you know if there was a problem

I leave DD1 (5) and DD2 (14 months) for a minute or so at a time while I get pajamas etc.

I think it sounds fine.
Lovely that your DCs get some fun time together.

I think that it is VERY irresponsable to leave two young children in the bath alone while you potter about tidying up.Especially as it only takes a few inches of water for them to drown!

Yes I would & I do! Not exactly a lone parent but DH gets home very late so sounds similar. Its not like you leave the house and go down the pub!!! (post above)

Trust your instincts and as long as you're about and listening it's fine. Let the bath fun continue...

shazabogle

you wouldnt leave 9 year old in the bath???

<<<<faints>>>>

I do that. Similar ages, and have been doing it for a while.

shaza....the older one's almost ten

I leave my nearly 5 year old ds in bath alone, I'm upstairs in bedrooms or whatever. My 16 month old though, no, not even if in together because she keeps standing up, so she might slip. DS is very sensible, sits playing with whatever he's got in there. I can hear him and I shout to him occasionally. I think it's fine (obviously).

I would.

Sure they could drown in a couple of inches but they would have to both fall and bump their heads and flounder about until they drwoned and you would hear them by then anyway.

A sensible 9 year old is more than capable of looking after an 18m old in the bath

yep, id be fine doing that.
you said you can hear them fgs - a mother has razor-sharp danger radar hearing.
i leave my 4, 3 and 2yos in the bath together for short periods too. so there you go.

yes i would
I think your friend is going by one of these kneejerk reactions eg "you must never leave a child alone in the bath"
without thinking the actual risks through herself
it is incredibly unlikely they would come to any harm
they are as likely to drown while eating a bowl of soup IMO

A nearly 10 yr old? Of course! I would more than trust her with her baby brother. My ds is 9 and I often leave his and his younger bro in the bath for 1/2 an hour or so. Periodically I call up the stairs, but that's it.

No!

My just 7 yr old dd recently pushed 4 yr old ds' head under the water. To be fair it was a one off.

lol at Franny, there will warnings on the side of the tin next, 'children can drown in a few inches of soup'...

I leave my six and 15 month old in the bath while I nip and get something. I can hear them, and yes, they could slip or have a fit or any number of dangerous things but it's pretty unlikely really.

no i agree with shaza what if something happened and the nine year old panicked and didnt know what to do.

Plus dd is nearly 10 do you really think its appropriate to have her in the bath with her brother anyway supervised or not?

yes with ear out

Mrs Carrot its pretty unlikely your 4 year old would be abducted or the house would burn down if you went out and left them with out a baby sitter do you do that?

I can't believe your post dylanthecat. What is not appropriate about a girl and her BABY brother in the bath together? What the hell do you think is going to happen?

nothing but she is starting to becime more awear of her own body puberty is iminent

dylanthecat a child and her baby brother. You have a twisted mind.

she should have her privacy respected

"what if something happened and the nine year old panicked and didnt know what to do."

I imagine she would shout "MUUUUMMMMM!" which is why the OP stays within earshot rather than going down the shops

the thing about the children being in the bath together being inappropriate is just mad

dylan if she wanted privacy do you not think she would say she didn't want to bath with the baby anymore?

not really you twisted it not me I was thinking about the nearly ten year old not the baby brother

No
Dh's friend's 2 year old drowned in the bath after being left for about a minute

not neccissarily especially if she was embaressed

it wasn't actualy aimed at dashboard it was aimed at harpsichord leaving a five year old to look after a two alone and YES they can drown in a few inches of water you lot are having a laugh!

I don't know why you are projecting all this onto a 9 year old who has said nothing to her mum about not wanting to bathe with her brother.

I agree with TheProvincialLady - what on earth are thinking might happen dylanthecat??? My dd is 10 and is totally responsible and enjoys baths with her siblings. I am totally comfortable with that and to suggest that it isn't astounds me....

But nearly 10 shaza, nearly ten?

all i am saying is it has to stop at some point and her body is changing and she may no longer be comfortable with it or she wont be soon and you cant garentee she will say anything

ewwww, how creepy that dylanthecat thinks there might be something 'inappropriate' about children bathing together.

I think I am too young to be left in the bath on my own

really I feel very unsafe I am only 38

I always make sure my mum is in the house

and if your 9 year old is having sexual thoughts about her baby brother I think the least of your problems is the small likelihood that he might drown

god some of you lot are barking

I think it would be better to foster a relationship where she could say something, rather than decide on an arbitrary cut off date on her behalf. I used to bathe with my 6 and 7 year old (girl) cousins up until I was about 14. Never occurred to me or them to be embarrassed. Some people are happier with their bodies than others and it's not a great plan to be jumping in with adult ideas of what is appropriate, when the result is likely to be upset and feelings of shame.

<breathe of sane air> thanks capp! thought id wandered into the twilight zone there!!

Sexual thoghts about her little brother?! thats your twisted slant not mine! I just think she is getting to the age where she need some privicy

dylan, I think it's fine for them to bath together, really
and I really think if she felt uncomfortable about her body she would say something - meanwhile it's good not to make her feel perhaps she SHOULD feel self-conscious, by changing this nice time in the bath with her brother

I think Dylanthecat ment that she would be more embaressed than anything else so it shows who has got the dirty minds!

absolutely franny

saying 'oh I am sure you want your privacy now and think this is inappropriate' is just going to confuse a girl

there is no point making her feel uncomfortable about her body if she does not feel that way herself

other people said yes nappies, you just didn't notice

my adorable children opened the front door this morning and before I knew it, I had three of the neighbourhood kids standing talking to me while I was in the shower (over the bath, so full frontal view grrrr) including an 18 month old. Thank goodness, none of them seemed scarred by the experience. I think 18 month old children are not bothered by who is nude and who isn't and I'm pretty sure a nearly 10 yr old wouldn't do it if she didn't want to!

I can't believe people think a nearly 10 year old wouldn't know what to do if there was a problem - how are our children ever going to grow up into adults when we give them NO responsibility?

And what could happen? The baby could slip under the water - in which case the sister picks him up again. Even my 4 year old knows that. If the baby had a fit or something, she could shoult for mum.

MN really depresses me, how we mollycoddle our children, and think it's unacceptable to leave 16 year olds for 5 mins at a time. I would leave my 6 year old for up to 20 mins or so (if he wanted - so far he hasn't wanted to be left). At 10/11 most children will be getting themselves to school on their own, crossing roads, getting buses. If they can't manage to look after their brother in the bath then they've got no hope.

So, I think it's fine DC! And as to risk - well unless you never leave the house and never do anything in the house then everything is a risk. Taking the kids in a car is probably one of the riskiest things you can do, potentially fatal, but nobody suggests you shouldn't do it. I bet your friend takes her kids in a car - and that is far riskier!

I left ds and dd in the bath when they were this age (same sort of age gap), they were fine.

10 year old is big enough to haul her up out of the bath and simultaneously shout for you if 18mth old falls backwards and submerges (which is what we are all worried about - right?)

I've been doing this with my dd1 and dd2 since about 18 months - when dd1 was 9. Also v sensible girl.

Key thing is to stay in earshot so you can be in like a shot if 10 year old starts shouting

oooh have just read the whole thread
dylancat you are a wierdo. my 10 yr old dd often chooses to shower in the privacy of her own (well, my) bathroom, but often chooses to have a bath with her 2 year old sister AND (shock, horror, faint) her 7 and 4 year old brothers

and for you to think there is anything wrong with that is actually pretty creepy frankly

what franny said re 'inappropriateness"
I've left dd with ds 6 since she was about 19 m , always within earshot. DS is not going to watch silently while she slips under the water, I'm pretty damned certain.

I dont think it is wrong to be aware that a nearly 10 year old is entering pubity I started my periods at 10

it's not wrong to be aware of puberty

it's wrong to start making a child feel as if they should hide away when it starts

but it doesn't mean that the 9 y o will be ashamed of her body or should be, dylan

I've started my periods also but I still bath with ds

she may feel embarrassed soon, or in a year, or five years, or never

wait for her to decide, not us

yes so do i but my dds four not ten

Sorry had to lol at a 10 year old and younger sibling having a bath together as something inappropriate

I dont think that dylanthecat is a weirdo.YOU lot are wierdos thinking sick things when dylanthecat was trying to say that the nine year old could be embarressed.I think you should pull your heads out of your butts and stop being pompous pigs

we're talking about the 9 yo feeling embarrassed of the 18 mo seeing her, though, aren't we? I think this is getting confused

IMO the dd is the one to decide when it is inappropriate
this seems obvious to me

thanks shaza, for sharing those charming and erudite thoughts

of course i would. as long as they are in earshot then why not?
ds is 2.8 years and i pop in and out of his bedroom (directly opposite the bathroom) to get his pjs and towel when he is in the bath. he chats to me while i am doing it and i would hear instantly if he slipped, so dont see a problem!

oh I am a sick weirdo

I'm not the kind of woman who jokes about these things at all, oh no

I kind of see what dylan might be getting at. I found it hard to explain to my parents that I didn't want my younger brother to see me without clothes on etc (seven year gap between us). They were weren't shy about such things but seemed a bit baffled at my reaction.

But I'm still not trusting my 7 year old for the time being after what she did to ds!

Mumsnet is mad at times. Only on here have I learnt that you cannot drink alcohol if you are the only person in the house with a child asleep(in case the child spontaneously combusts and you have to rush it to hospital) and now that I can't leave my kids in the bath while I potter about within earshot.

Bathtime used to be my 10 minutes of sanity as they weren't actually able to cling to my leg whilst sat in the bath playing. Bonkers.

your welcome franny

why would you not be able to drink? I dont drink but as long as you are sober enough to react to anything that happened why would you not be able to? as long as they arent in the bath obviously

I would leave them within earshot. And I think the 10 year old would say if they didnt want to do it

By dylanthecat on Sat 17-May-08 15:30:12
Mrs Carrot its pretty unlikely your 4 year old would be abducted or the house would burn down if you went out and left them with out a baby sitter do you do that?

Yes, dylan, popping downstairs to get a towel is exactly like leaving them in the house without a babysitter, silly me.

But he's a baby dylanthecat! I think that's really sad

Am I allowed to drink in the house if we don't have a car, on the basis that I couldn't drive anyone anywhere anyway?

motherhood is very complicated.

my 12yo niece still loves to bathe with DS (2.1) and we have no problem with it. My DH and her dad don't come in when she does though, to respect her privacy, even though she hasn't asked for this. Them coming in would be inappropriate - her bathing with a 2yo really isn't.

IMHO.

popsycal - I'm sorry to hear about your friend's child. But was the child on their own? This is not leaving a baby on their own, it's leaving them with a much older sibling.

Well if you want to drink while you are in on your own with a child thats fine but i dont think its right.And spice it was aimed at harpsichord as i don't feel that leaving a five year old looking after a 2.5 year old while you tidy up is responsable!

I think maybe you make life quite hard for yourself shaza with all these rules that don't seem to have much basis in anything concrete
just that you feel it is wrong

I think it depends on the 9 year-old. My DD and an 18 month-old yes. My DS1 when he is 9 and an 18-month old no way. I think what you are doing sounds absolutely safe and fine!

I happily let my children bathe together.... ALONE

Similar ages too.

I would - popping head round door or calling up every few mins.

no my lifes not hard at all its just i use my common sense more than you obviously.

well you see I would disagree there shaza
I think I use my common sense to judge the inherent risk in every situation, and weigh up the advantages and disadvantages before I make a decision, based on my knowledge of my own child

it sounds like you make knee jerk decisions based on arbitrary rules - 'children shouldn't be left alone in the bath' - 'adults in charge of children mustn't drink' - without actually considering the situation or using your judgment at all. You aren't able to explain or justify your decisions to us - it's just 'wrong' to do what we do in your opinion

you also want to apply your rules to everyone else regardless of the abilities, age, or general maturity of their children
this doesn't sound like common sense to me

applying your own rules to others is not a sign of good sense.

but to be fair, a person should be able to act on an instinct, a feel for whats right without necessarily being able to intellectualise and communicate their reasoning. not everyone has the capacity for the communicating bit.

wouldn't leave them alone as the 9yr old isn't grown up enough to supervise a 1yr in water.

shaza seems to have a good capacity for communicating what she thinks of us Nappies
no you are right there, I do see what you mean

yes well, social skills are a whole different ball game

Would not leave a child under 6 in the bath without very regular checks on it. Would not leave a child of under 7 unsupervised with a younger child in the bath(I don't think). That said, my Ds has always been a mature soul, so I may have felt differently had he had a sibling earlier than he has...
Here in the solo household, our bathroom /toilet door does not get closed. Nudity is not an issue here. I wasn't in a position to have privacy from Ds due to being a single mum. But! when my 9.9 yo gets to the stage/age where he wants to close the door/bathe alone/not see me naked etc, then that would seem the appropriate time to start doing the 'privacy' thing.
I shared a bedroom with my brother of 3 years my junior until I was 11. I started to have issues about him seeing my flat ' breasts' and we were lucky to be finally rehoused and the problem no longer exsisted.

I have a drink on some evenings sitting here on my own, two kids in bed...I don't get drunk though...wouldn't even if I didn't have kids.

I do the same (pottering about within ear shot, although I stay on the same floor and keep asking them how/what they're doing) -mine are 4 and 2. We've done baby swimming with both since they were 6 months old, so they're fine with being under water, but obviously we still have to be careful.

I too am confused by dylanthecat's post. What a sad world we live in if two pre-teen siblings can't have a bath together without comments like that (especially with one being a toddler!)

Ok, I've just read the whole thread - yikes, I never knew this parenting thing was this fraught with dangers!

what a very entertaining thread. thanks ladies.

(Except popsycal's story - that's so sad )

Oh, I LOVED the post from dylanthecat...

Hmmm.. overactive imagination ? Looking for a ' weird ' element to two kids being in the bath together ? Who knows ? Would love to though!

To everyone else - thanks for those views ...