He left a whacking huge red mark on her arm. When she'd stopped hitting dd2, she hit H. I just don't know what to do.

does anyone need to be right? can everyone be wrong and a bit cross and all say sorry?

H is wrong, IMO. A 9 yo knows that they are doing wrong by hitting someone else, but they may not have the self control to stop doing it. Your H should have removed himself from the situation rather than hitting her. That's just my opinion though - I am strongly against adults hitting children.

FIS, thanks for the reply. Yes, agree with what you've said, just doesn't seem right. A woman abused in that way would get help - just don't know how I can give it.

Sounds like everyone was wrong,
IMO.

If he's left a whacking huge red mark on her arm, he's broken the law.

I doubt if she has broken the law.

Therefore, it's likely that he is far more wrong than her.

Who is the adult?

He's in the wrong more that your DD. He's also not exactly setting the right example is he if he wanted her to stop hitting DD2 right?!

are you talking about the 9 yr old?

I think if dh is in the habit of hitting/hitting that hard then you need to do something.

If this was a bit out of character and a one-off response to the situation, then an apology and perhaps a chat about losing tempers might be in order (for everyone).

Does the 9yr old have a temper issue?

Is this a regular occurance?

No-one is right.

H is not setting a great example imo. Hitting is an odd way of punishing a child for hitting.

Can you both sit down and agree on a way of dealing with physical aggression from your children, and stick to it no matter what?

A united front will help.

Agree with foxinsocks, if it was a one off then a good heart to heart chat for everyone is in order.

FM, I'm assuming that was an ironic question. Her father

Yes, it's a regular occurance, but the saddest thing is that dd1 frequently asks why her father favours dd2 over her. I just don't know what to do about that.

he regularly whacks her that hard? hard enough to leave a mark and regularly?

jeez 2 sugars, can't see much in a man who does that to a child I'm afraid

and you wonder why dd is aggressive?

can you have a word with your GP or put an anonymous call to the NSPCC or childline and ask them what they think you should do?

So he regularly hits her?

Can you not talk to him and come up with some united strategies for him to deal with her without resorting to violence?

have you spoken to dh about his temper?

sorry I sounded a bit harsh there

you know there are courses and ALL SORTS and loads of help for people with temper/anger problems but he has to recognise he has a PROBLEM and want to get better

I've only read op and I'm already confused

I wouldn't let any man hurt my child deliberately, even if he was the father

Obviously it's a delicate situation though.

who hit who?

Agree with foxinsocks. Do you feel OK about watching your H do that to your child?

the dad hit DD1 for hitting DD2 Kerry, then DD1 hit the dad. That's what I understood anyway.

What do you say when your H hits your children - do you intervene?

2sugarsagain, I wasn't being ironic. It was my answer. He is the adult. Adults don;t hit children in my books.

OMG, no, it's only as regular as dd1 hits dd2. And subsequently her father, which, thankfully, isn't that often

2sugars have you talked to your DH about how DD1 feels?

pinkteddy, of course not.

has he been carted off by police yet and children taken into care?

oh right! Srry, so it's dd1's hitting that is regular?

Do you think she's lashing out at DD2 because she is gealous of the percieved favouratism?

I thkn your DH needs to spend some serious quality time building up his relationship with DD1 so she feels more secure.

are you drunk ?

this is all very confusing

Right. So dh doesn't hit dd1 very often. But dd1 hits dd2 more often.

And who are you worried about? dd1?

I think all of your family needs to find new ways of dealing with disputes, that don't involve violence. As soon as your DH hits DD1 he is sending the message that hitting is fine, therefore she will not stop hitting DD2 as long as he is hitting her.

I think you all need to sit down and have a family meeting where you all agree to find different ways of dealing with disagreements - and then you need to police the hitting ruthlessly - they lose something very, very valuable if they do so - DH included!

thought you were saying it was a regular occurence that your H hit dd1. Still don't agree with hitting children, especially if its calculated.

Does DH hit you too, by any chance? Or is he only brave enough to hit children?

make a new rule: No one, adult or child, is allowed to hit or be otherwise violent to anyone else, even if they are really angry.

OMDB, I've told him that.
FIS, no, I wish! Actually told him tonight that I was advised to see my GP tomorrow with a breast cancer scare, but that seemed to wash over him. And I'm not the kind of person that wants anyone feeling over those bits at the best of times ....

yeah but if the 9 yr old has got into the habit of solving problems that way, she'll need to learn how not to hit imo. And that is actually quite tricky because hitting is immediate and in many ways, the easy way out.

You can do all sorts of anger stuff with kids that age. Recognising when they are about to tip over and start hitting (ask her how she feels - you get a sort of welling up of emotion inside, like a big ) and then ask her to focus when she gets that feeling and start to try and divert it by maybe going into the garden and kicking a ball or going for a walk or drawing a picture (whatever she finds easiest to get her feelings out).

But obviously, you must get dh along with this too.

please tell me you've ripped his balls off and booted him out of your house?!

oh sorry, you just stand around feeling bad about it all

grow a spine woman. she's you're daughter, it's your duty to protect her, even from her father. of course she hits dd2 if she gets hit herself hard enough to mark.

he needs help for her sake or else he needs to go. simple as that.

FIS, I kind of know that, but if I told her that, she's at the kind of age where she'd tell me to 'get real'.

Sorry but if your H hits your children, then he's teaching them that hitting is OK.

If you want your children not to hit each other so much, then the adults in their lives need to stop hitting them.

Can't see any way round that, really.

So does he acknowledge that there is a problem that needs addressing by him? Or does he just not care?

that he's shown no support for you ewither, is he always like this?

Do you really need to ask that question? ...

lol 2sugars. Sorry to hear about tomorrow - hope all is OK.

Maybe it could be a project that her and dh could do together? That might be nice for both of them. He could admit to her that he needs to get his temper in check and they could both learn together? I don't know what type of man he is. Some would hate that I'm sure but if he's willing to change, it might be a bonding thing for them to do.

Even if they didn't do that but just spent more time together, with each other, on their own?

PT, yes, I have kicked him out of my house before. But it's my house, and they are his children, and no matter what, they love him.

Am sitting here head in hand wondering what to do. They love him, he's a 'Pillar of the community. No excuse for his behaviour, but PLEASE, PT, don't think I haven't thought about this before.

2sugars it sounds like a horrible situation to be in, but you need to be more assertive. If you want change i your family you have to be more assertive in demanding that it happen.

You can't tackle DD's aggressive outbursts with her father hitting her. He needs to lead by example.

OMDB, I suppose that was what I was asking. Where should I go from now, do you think?

2 sugars - thinking about it really isn't enough - you need to act. I know it is difficult, but you cannot allow his behaviour to continue.

Just remember that nothing is ruled out - there is nothing that you cannot do, if you want to protect your children enough!

So what does he say about it?

you've got to tell it to him straight 2 sugars

tell him how concerned you are

are you worried he'd hit you?

Take charge 2sugars

Be assertive, make some new family rules that everyone has to stick to, and make sure they do.

I agree with what everyone has said - if kids are hit they will hit, if kids are regularly screamed at, they will scream and shout. Your DH really needs to understand that.

Don't just 'suggest' things, or talk about them, or worry about them , insist on them. Your house, your rules. If he doesn't like it leave. Work out consequences for rules being broken, and stick to these no matter what. No compromise.

Take charge.

Does he understand that 2Sugars?

He can't leave, I'd have to buy him a house and he would get part custordy.

He has hit me in the past, had two nights' in custordy for doing that.

why would you have to buy him a house? And think he would be struggling with custody if you can prove the violence.

Bollox he can't leave. Are you saying you'd stay with him no matter what because he has no where else to go?

Do you want to live with someone because they can't leave?

Well there's a pretty obvious reason why your DD is hitting her sister, then, isn't there? She's being shown, time and time again, that hitting people smaller and weaker than yourself is the way to behave.
Yes he can leave, 2sugars. No matter whose house it is, he can be removed from it and refused access to it. Immediately. He's violent to the children whose home it is. What are you waiting for? Him to kill one of them? (Oh, and this 'pillar of the community' crap - it's very often the men like this who don't just hit their DDs but rape them too.)

madamez, I can't leave, it's my house, just wondering if anyone on MN knows how to take this further.

He won't get joint custody if he has been abusing the children - take a photograph right now of the mark on DD's arm and keep it somewhere safe.

You will also not have to provide him a house - you may have to pay maintenance to him if you are the higher earner, but dear god, I'd give my entire life savings to protect my children from such an odious influence in their life!

There is no choice here he has to go.

If he has hit you he is going to carry on hitting your daughter.

Have the school noticed yet?

It will count against him if he's been violent 2sugars, especially if you've reported him in the past.

Have you called women's aid ever? Or the refuge place?

2 sugars - open a new email account and keep it secret! Then CAT Freckle.

Try CAB? When you say take it further, do you mean legally? Loads of useful info on legal/money threads.

Yes you can call the police and report him for assaulting his dd for a start. That would take it further. Get all these incidences of violence on record.

You obviously can't negotiate with him. It's clear that he believes he has the right to hit smaller, weaker people than him, not just that he snaps in a moment of weakness and feels guilty and ashamed afterwards.

And the last time the police took him away he kept his keys, and I woke up to him in the house the next morning.

Get a locksmith and change locks!

have you told someone else about this in real life? a friend or family member? someone who can help you through this?

Sanctuary - there is a choice - there is always a choice. It is making the right one that is difficult

The OP's DH has a choice - he deals with his anger problems (and I would insist on a proper anger management course) or he ships out.

2 sugars could put that choice to him right now if she chooses to.

good idea of soapbox to take photographic evidence.

yes take photographic evidence.

What do you want to do 2sugars? Do you want to stay with him? Call the police? What? Because you need to make a decision.

Do you want to live with him the rest of your life?

Thank you all so much. The trouble is, they LOVE him, big time.

sb, thanks for the advice. I'll do that, though I'm running out of tea-related items to call myself. It's just so sad - they're missing out on their childhood, I'm missing out on them being children.

Am going to get my head down now in preparation for tomorrow's visit to my GP. Thank you all so much - I know it sounds weird, but I can't tell you all how much better you've made me feel

Photographic evidence would worry my 9yo Soooo much. She'd ask why.

2sugars he's their dad, of course they love him, but this situation is going to leave them damaged, scarred, insecure and confused and if you love them you won't let that happen to them.

Good luck tomorrow. It might be worth talking to your GP about it while you're there too, they will be able to offer adivce and support.

Stop putting up obstacles. I'm sure being hit by her dad also worries her. Just say you have to take a photo of it to make sure it doen't happen again.

The next time he's removed by the police change the locks. Then apply for an injunction barring him from the house because of his violence. Once a person has been removed from the house because of violent behaviour, the person forfeits the right to live in the house and how that person is housed is no longer the problem of the people who have been suffering from that person's violence.
DOn't waste time with counselling: this man thinks he's entitled to hit you and the DC because you are his possessions. He won't change. Get him out.

children always love their fathers, it's instinct. it doesn't make it safe for them to be around them.

i'm sorry about you're health scare 2sugers, hadn't read that when i posted or i might not have been so snappy.

agree with the others, with a record of violance at best he'd get supervised visitation. you do not sound like you want to be with him, staying because it would upset the kids isn't good enough reason if they are in danger from him, and you and dd1 certainly are in danger.

please call the police, for all your sakes.

My father was a miserable git. I didn't love him and I don't love him now, even though he thinks he can suddenly be 'daddy' to a daughter in her forties, when he was horrible to us all as kids.

Sorry, i don't buy that stuff about automatically loving a parent because they are your parent. It MIGHT be that this dad is actually quite nice a lot of the time and that is why the DDs love him, NOT because he is their dad.

It sounds like you're trying to talk yourself out of doing the right thing 2SA. You know what it is, and you are strong enough to do it. Believe in yourself and do it for your daughters.

Sorry, just got back to this thread.

No, don't intervene, but only because I'm a bit scared of him myself. I just have to say, in case I've pointed the wrong picture, he doesn't do it very often. But it still worries me enough to ask you about it.

0808 2000 247 - Women's Aid will know everything you need to know and do if you want this change permanently

Take care x