I was about to post about yet another behaviour issue with my sons and then I thought - no. While I know everyone will have some great advice, it's not advice I need. It's commiserations.

We start each day with a cup of milk and each day they have the exact same argument about who's having which cup. And thus commences the day - interspersed with pooing in pants, peeing in pants, constant bickering, not listening, wasting food,tantrums, pushing boundaries - until they go to bed and I am frazzled.

So if anyone else out there needs a place to vent / have a virtual hug or glass of wine / feel like you're not alone in being a mother on the edge, then sign up here.

.
I am trying to remember the rows I've had today.
Sorry, can't, too many, they drive me mad!!
Oh yes... the long spoon, 8yo fighting with 3yo over a spoon at breakfast.
And so on, and so on, and so on...

You have my sympathies mloo. I just keep thinking - this phase will pass. But then they're into the next one....

can i join?

Oh let me join - otherwise I am putting them on ebay

Welcome all.

I've just had to deal with a 4 year old who was promised a comic for doing really well at swimming lessons only to have said child unable to make up his mind as to which comic he wanted, resulting in the shopkeeper eventually telling him off (he had somewhat destroyed the magazine rack), which then triggered an almighty tantrum (we had at this point chosen a comic but he was still changing his mind), we drove home with him screaming 'take the comic back' all the way, until I said that he wasn't going to be getting it anyway, at which point the scream changed to 'i want my comic' and then 'i want chocolate'.

And it continued thus......

I was on the bus today - hot and crowded with my 5 month old in the buggy and my 3 year old - managed to get a seat for my daughter - when we were getting off she started screaming hysterically. Thinking she had hurt herself I was being all supportive - but no she had left her twig on the seat - she had a tantrum all the way home.....welcome to my life

I feel your pain janx. Been there, lost the twig and the plot.

I was about to post a thread saying "Can I just come on to scream?"
My 4 yo refused to budge all the way home from school, by the time we got home we were both in tears. i have dragged her kicking & screaming once before & am determined not to do that again (felt awful about it afterwards), so today it was a combination of charging ahead to the next road we had to cross so she came running scared I'd cross without her, sitting down head in hands waiting, carrying her under my arm when i had to, and also getting down on her level to figure out what was wrong & trying to reason with her.

we've just had another row because she's demanding yet more snacks, just before bath/bed. she's in the bath now whining.

think it's just one of them days, she seems very tired i must say.

J&J - indecisiveness drives me mad too!
& janx, been there with the bus situation!

I went for an interview today - job I really wanted. Recieved phonecall to offer me the job and ds2's friend wandered in. I pointed at the door in an 'out now!!' gesture. He ran off and told ds 1 and 2. The three of them then proceeded to run in the room, laugh, run out, while I tried to talk calmly to this man whilst madly gesticulating at them to GET OUT. This went on for about 5 minutes. I was not a happy mummy.

well dd finally in bed thank god (battle getting ready) but i can hear her whinging, still saying she's hungry and wanting a cuddle. (I've got the monitor on.) I feel a bit bad refusing her food if she really is genuinely hungry (even after all the snacks she had ), but dd is such a creature of routine that she will try this on every night if i give in tonight. i think i'll bring her some milk if she doesn't shut up, a compromise. just realised i forgot to clean her teeth tonight anyway dammit...

it's so frustrating because the other week i read Alfie Kohn and was determined to start trying to be all alfie-kohn like & stop using rewards & consequences but it's bloody impossible on a day to day basis!

cornsilk what is it about kids when you're on the phone?

Stones, inthis family. Or more specifically, driveway gravel. They Collect them up, carry in plastic bags (swing bags around for good affect inside the house -- who do you suppose will get to tidy that mess up?).
When kids seem to have forgotten about the stones, I dump back on driveway. Only THIS time, DD remembered.

DD Went ballistic about her precious stones I had dumped.

I pointed out to her exactly where I dumped them, DD cries "But I can't tell which ones are the ones I collected earlier!" Er, yeah, no kidding...

lol mloo dd is the same, stone collector. I just don't allow them in the house unless i'm happy for her to keep them, thus avoid the upset when i try & get rid of them!

Hello, posted here about dd1 constantly wanting to eat but mloo pointed me in this direction so can I join?
to add to my gripes, today DD1 did a poo in the potty after stripping down herself after getting up but now screams and wails every time I suggest taking putting knickers on instead of a nappy.
Begged me the other day for a pretty bed, bought one this morning, that she chose, with pink (yuck) butterflies all over it and then refused to get in the fecking bed as it was the wrong way round.

Oh, and this morning we went to a friends, the whole way there she screamed and wailed 'I don't want to go, I don't like him, pleeeheeeheeeheeease'
Get there, and she runs up the path and is happy as larry for the morning.

Ooh, that's so much better!

Oooh, can I play? My dd is being an utter wretch at the moment, influenced in no small part by the very recent arrival of her baby brother I'm sure.

Was on the phone today when there was a chilling shriek of anguish followed by gulping sobs. I dropped the phone and raced to the hall expecting to find a severed limb at the very least. But no. DP had hoovered up a star shaped silver sequin and she could see it through the perspex cover on the dyson.

She's also taken against dp being allowed a wee. He tries to sneak off to the bathroom but she notices and screams "NO DADDY WEE NO DADDY WEE", races to the bathroom and slams the loo shut and sits on it howling until he goes away. (This doesn't make me laugh at all. Honest. )

Stones & twigs also not allowed in our house, doesn't stop them trying it on, though.
I find gravel chips in Dd's room and I try to clear them out -- cue tantrums about how she's going to make nests or crafts or sumwat with them.

DS3 had a screaming fit because DS1 put on the wrong shoes this morning (actually, that was useful, because DS1 wouldn't notice his own footwear if it jumped up and bit him).

But then DS1 was having MEGA-tantrums last week about school trip he didn't want to go on yesterday. DS1 got banned from school disco and all (further tantrums) because of his ridiculous initial outbursts about the trip ...... then we stopped discussing the trip & he went on it without any fuss after all.
SIGH.

So glad I am not alone. It is like House of Tiny Tearaways here.

We have had sandpit sand in the lounge, a broken plate, constant fights, rejected dinners...

I was trying to do a bit of gardening and one of the little sods tipped a spadeful of soil down the back of my jeans while I was crouching down!!!

Commiserations offered and accepted.

I'm sorry everyone, commisserations and everything, but i am PMSL at most of your stories!

it's amazing how important such little tiny things are to little people!

It's good to have a thread with no advice, actually.

I have had days recently where I feel I have been losing my sanity. Last week I picked DS2 (8) up from a club at school, with DS1 (11) in tow and DD (3). Despite the purchase of comics (which they ended up not having), I had to line them all up against a wall at least four times on the 15 min walk home, to stop the boys teasing and hurting each other or to stop DD screaming at DS2 for invading her space and doing stupid things to annoy her, just because he wants her attention.

I got in the door, picked up the phone and said to DH 'come home now or I will kill one of them'.

And he did.

I cannot imagine having 3 of them!! 1 is enough on days like this...

Yes it is good not having advice, because I know exactly the way I want to be and have all the techniques at my finger tips, but just needed to vent today!

i love it when we can all just have a moan about it all ...and supernanny isn't looking on and tutting disapprovingly!!!

what makes me laugh is all the fuss there is about 'having a baby'...and from where i am sitting now...with 3 boys age 14,11 & 8....i see that the 'baby years' were NOTHING as compared to my life now!!!!

thank god we don't know what we are letting ourselves in for...otherwise the world's population would shrink !

Morning the 'going quietly insane mothers club'.

We had a reasonably smooth morning out of the house - only one bowl of cereal and two pieces of toast wasted, 2 year old refused to get dressed so went to nursery in PJs and there was a fight about who was going to get dropped off first at nursery - but besides that, pretty smooth.

Now I have a whole luxurious day to work my arse off - but without any children underfoot. The peace and tranquility is lovely.

Ds who is 3.5 went into meltdown yesterday evening as dh and he were playing "rugby" in the garden and dh ddn't throw the ball onto the exact blade of grass that ds had pointed at.

And dreadful mother that I am, he had to go back to bed at early o'clock this morning when he decided it was time to start the day as Mummy and Daddy were still Trying To Be Asleep. Cue another strop whereby you would be forgiven for assuming that I had taken his cuddly rabbit and torn its fluffy sodding limbs off. I might just consider it...

But the most infuriating thing is the selective hearing/ignoring.

Me: DS would you like porridge or weetabix for breakfast/we are going to the park now please come and put your shoes on with me/ please do not throw tat big hard toy at daddys head, he is quite precious and we would all be sad if he got hurt

DS: (silence)

Me: (Repeats same a bit louder)

DS: (silence)

Me: Ds did you hear me sweetie? You need to listen to mummy when she is talking.

DS: Whaaaaaat??????? Waaaaaaaaah!!!!!! (throws self on floor and writhes around shrieking and groaning screwing face up like a dogs bottom)

I am not looking forward to today.

Can I join please? DD (3.6) is in a "phase" at the moment, mainly because she is soooooo tired. Light nights make her think she can sit up in bed for an hour after we put her down chatting with her toys and singing songs, which is all very sweet but the next morning she's like a bear with a sore head!

"Weetabix or toast sweetheart?"
"Nothing! NOT HUNGRYYYYYYYY!"
"You've got to eat before (pre)school, I'm making you xyz, come sit a tthe table please..."
"I DON'T WANT TO GO TO SCHOOOOOLLLLLLLL TOOODAAAAAYYYYYYYY!"
Wailing, shrieking, sulking, etc etc

Half an hour later with a bit of brekkie in her she's like an angel as if it never happened. Home from school same old, same old...

Minkus - I think boys have selective hearing from birth. It's why men don't seem to hear you when you say: can you put your dirty plate in the dishwasher instead of on top of it?

It's a genetic defect (although I think they'd argue that it's a fabulous genetic evolution).

I'm very used to one way conversations - like: what did you do at pre-school today? Silence. Who did you play with? Silence. Was it fun? Silence. And then something like: mummy, why don't dogs have wings? And you just know that your voice was mere backgrond noise as they mulled over deeper issues.

lol x 100 at why don't dogs have wings
The pretending not to hear business drives me just potty. Think its a control thing for ds ("I can choose when to talk to you mummy")

And bibi my ds is just the same about breakfast, his evil twin before eating but as soon as he'd had something even just half a slice of toast he's fine. DH is the same though, must be blood sugar. Men! Kids! Any difference there?

nope not a boy thing, dd is the same! drives me potty . i try and give her a bit of control & choice by asking what she wants, if she's feeling stroppy she refuses to answer till i say "right if you don't answer me, i'll choose for you..." still no reply, i choose, cue wailing ....
grrr. maybe it's easier NOT to give them a choice.

j&j - perhaps stop asking those sorts of questions? i think it was on child of our time, they were saying not to, that it's pressure or something, rather just let them talk about whatever they want to talk about. i do usually ask dd if she had a good day though and what she did, seems wrong not to somehow, like i'm not interested! But i don't pressure her for an answer if she doesn't give me one (which is often!)

You know who is partly to blame for a lot of this TCD (tension, crisis and drama)?
It's Ikea. Ikea and their multi coloured packs of childrens plates and bowls.

WTF do they not just do x6 yellow farking bowls and be done with it.

The number of 'it's completely the end of my whole world' rages we have in this house over the shitting pink Ikea plate.

<Points finger at Ikea>
You are to blame for all this you know.

It can be any bowl or plate or cup or spoon though...Let's have communist parenting where every item in daily use is identical!

Today I have an 11 year old DS who still can't wee in the toilet bowl and a 3 year old DD with conjunctivitis, who therefore cannot go to nursery, and is practising for the screaming olympics each time I have to put the drops in her eye.

BUT the 8 year old was practically perfect this morning! Yeah!

Oh, I'm glad somebody brought up indecisiveness!

It used to make me feel so guilty that I can deal with a fairly good range of really naughty behaviour, I am pretty effective with temper tantrums, and not too phased by defiance- yet all that wretched dithering and humming and ha'ing and inability to make up what passes for their minds turns me into a tantrumming toddler!!! .

aaagh speaking of indecisiveness...

dd joined me in bed this morning as usual, very tired, every time she opened her mouth it was whingy moany. She wanted breakfast straight away but refused to tell me which she wanted. Eventully sorted that, carried her as i usually do on the weekend to her breakfast in the living room, but next min she's disappeared again to the bed.

After that, she wanted me to carry her AGAIN to her breakfast but of course i'm not having that. Cue terrible screaming and tantrum. I actually shut her out of the living room at one point, telling her she had to calm down first. I had to come down the hall to get to the kitchen at one point and she ran away screaming, so I think even if I gave in & went to get her she wouldn't let me anyway! When I got down on her level to try and be sympathetic and hopefully get a cuddle etc she did the "I'm NOT TALKING TO YOU" and wheeled away. i HATE that esp if I'm trying to be nice!!

so glad it's not a schoolday...!

anyway she's quiet now, reading her books in the hallway. meanwhile her cereal's going soggy and guaranteed by the time she finally gets to it she'll complain about it and want fresh cereal (i don't usually let her do that, i hate throwing a whole bowl away just because she's been stubborn).

can I join you please

dd1 is just 3

she is stubborn personified
she makes me want to scream sometimes

its feeling tricky today as gecko has a cough that is making her cough so much she is sick

everything seems a little harder when one is clinging to you and not well

and my 8 yr old NEVER stops talking

Stubbornnes is INFURIATING. dd has always been pretty timid and clingy, but STUBBORN. My friend who is a nanny says that is a good trait for her to have, hopefully she'll grow up to be quite strong and able to stick to her own opinions etc etc.

I have been trying to change my approach to her (since reading Alfie Kohn) - so that she doesn't have something to fight against iykwim. I think I tend to bark orders at her more than I need to, because I expect her to say NO and refuse, whereas I should be trying to offer her choices, get her involved, etc etc. But it's so TIRING doing that especially if you're short of time!

It's our personalities clashing too - the thing that winds me up the most is outright disobedience, so "Help me tidy up dd" "No". straight away my blood boils! when actually, why SHOULD she do what i say right there and then, really?

Are there any parents out there who this doesn't infuriate? cory you said you can handle defiance. That's the one thing that really pushes my buttons! It makes me feel like a complete control freak...

That stones thing, I am sure DD was reading this thread as today, in our brand new done up gravelled garden she picked up a few stones and put them in her pocket, carried them around all day, taking them out every so often to admire them, and then completely lost it when I told her she couldn't take them in the bath.

She then insisted she was sleeping on the floor in 'just nappy' ie no pillow, duvet, blanket or pj's
Cue one screaming session she is now in her bed...I hope!

Glad i found this thread as i am struggling at the moment with my dd's(aged 6 and 2)
They really are driving me crackers and believe me i was well on the way pre dc.
From the minute they wake in the morning i find myself praying for bedtime or work ,where i can escape from them.The 6 year old is moody,disobediant,full of teenage like attitude,never satisified.The 2 year old has been bloody hard work from the day she was born.I can only describe her as a truly difficult child,incredibley stubborn and with a vile temper,everything is an issue for her.
God i never imagined i would speak of my dc in this waybut i truly despair.I blame me and dp obviously because we must have made them this way.
We are due to go on holiday in July,which i booked with trepidation as last time was a nightmare.We cant even eat out in a pub as dd2 is so naughty and people just stare at us and because she is tall they think that she is 3 or 4 and then her behaviour looks even worse.
Dreading another round of it tommorrow.

dd1 was a lovely child until she started school
I struggle to see any good in them at the moment and all me and dp do is shout and tell them off all the time(well it feels like it)

the same here.
i am here at this time of the night can you believe that?
i was in shower yesterday, somebody knocked on door, i opened and surprise: 2 police at my door.
while i was in shower my 7 yr old dd rang 999, saying i dont know what.
i am at my end with her. i have no energy left, i have tried everything, nothing works.
anyway it was good, i have told how hard time i have with her, and feel like i am going to give up on her.
she is so strong character, bossy, embarrassing me everywhere by screaming shouting on the streets, telling lies.
how can i suffer that anymore? what will happen when she will be teenager?

oh god stones.....

I have no words for today's stone dramas

pelvicfloornomore and lucylue - you both sound in need of some time out and an extra large dose of commiserations. This is not a thread for advice (particularly as I have none that would be a bit useful) but hang in there. There are days I'd willingly give mine away to the bin men. And then others they're so sweet I could gobble them up. There is no rhyme or reason for either mood. SO DON'T BLAME YOURSELVES.

It's great to read through these poast as it makes me think that my kids are normal instead of evil spawn.

My DS went into meltdown when Daddy left for work as he hadn't heard him say goodbye. I told DH all about this so he made a huge event of saying goodbye the next day, but the same thing happened after he closed the door.
This morning, DD had a fit because I wanted her to wear sandals to nursery. And that was before 9am.

hi Pelvicfloornomore,
i agree with what last you said. i think they are not learning nice stuff from their friends. how much i try to teach her what is right what is wrong and she must not copy bad behaviour, she doesnt get it.
and it seems to me that she doesnt see how upset i get.
she has pity for other stuff, but for me:none.
i cant have a time off, have nobody to help for that.
i dont see the end of this nice.
everyday is like a nightmare.
sorry for ranting here.

Hi nice to see that my dc arent the only spawn of the devil
Feeling slightly better today(only slightly mind)
dd2 kicked off before i had even got her out of her cotbed this morning.She wanted to wear the other dress with the animals on"But this one has other animals on dd2 "<cue rigidness and screaming> <sigh>

Oh well off to work in a while for a rest,lol.

Oh this thread is great - can I join?

I have twins 2.9. One is obsessed with stones as well - so glad it's not just my child. There is a local stately home I take them to just because there are huge hidden walkways covered with little stones and they can sit happily for ages playing with them .

Failing miserably to potty train because my children are just not interested. All my friends have potty trained children who are months younger, if not years.

We also have random tantrums, tears and howling about many things, including me accidentally shutting the stair gate at the bottom of the stairs before they can shut it. Sigh. Toddlers are utterly insane.

Tatterdemalion we have 2 sets of the Ikea plates, bowls and cups. I know it's giving in but for that price it felt like it would save that headache. Yet, they still manage to fight over the same yellow plate - even though there is another yellow one which is in everyway identical!

I have only got five posts into this thread - and I already feel totally at home .

I have never understood the evolutionary value of driving your parents insane.

Can def relate to the starting school thing, dd is so much ruder and bossier since starting school.

I've come crawling back to this thread because dd just now did something right in front of me that I blatantly told her not to (pour water on her plate of food!) then when I shouted at her (i know, i'm usually so good at not shouting!) she ran off, turned round & stuck her tongue out at me!
We are about to have ice cream for pudding and it is horribly tempting not to let her have any as a result but I am so trying to move away from the punishment/reward thing! ice cream is not connected to rudeness...

Am trying to get her to apologise before we have ice cream but she's just saying "no" in her rude determined voice. sigh.

AAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH
i just don't understand sometimes!!
Tonight dd decided to play a silly game with her fave comfort cuddly toy (puppy), I had him on my head while reading the story, dd decided she wanted him to stay there (therefore he was going to leave the room with me), when I tried to give him back she wouldn't accept him & then came to her door and kept throwing him out. I then warned her if she threw him out one more time she wouldn't get him back thinking she would wise up & keep him (stupid threat cos it's one I really can't with good conscience carry through) she immediately DID throw him out again. WHY WHY WHY??? Does anyone have an explanation for this behaviour? it happens now & then (not nec the puppy thing, but deliberately doing something that she really doesn't want to be doin & knowing full well what the consequence is. It just doesn't make sense! perhaps 4 yo behaviour never does...

in the end i have sent her back to bed saying if she stays in bed i'll bring him back in in 5 mins, a sort of compromise! i've told her NOT to play that game again with me! i guess it was an attempt to keep bedtime going.

ok rant over!

DD tantrumming today because she doesn't need to wear eye glasses....

oh jesus fecking christ re the twig, this is my life. sodding twigs, stones and leaves

i have always been a bit of an anti-plastic snob tbh. GOD that has backfired, at least you can get another beeping flashing piece of tat if you lose it, twigs are, it seems, one offs

ds's big thing right now is being exceptionally naughty and then giggling. it drives me insane.

oh and IKEA

fecking hell

here is what they did to US

around the time ds was weaned they sold us a 6 pack of flower shaped plates, in all different colours. of these, only one was pink. but all were cute.

then, shortly before dd1 was born, they discontinued the range.

I LOVE this and have nearly wet myself in just-potty-trained-style laughing at all the ridiculous yet horribly familiar stories!!!

WHY does it matter whether the cup is pink or blue?? WHY do I pander to it?

WHY does every walk turn into a nature trail? And WHY do my DDs act like I've torn their arms off when I tell them I don't want a shoe-box full of wood-lice in my kitchen??

And when do children start to tidy up after themselves?

And why does my 4yo refuse to wipe her own bottom when she's quite capable but my 2yo insists on doing it when she clearly isn't....

AARRRGGGGHHHH at least I'm not alone......

5.30 wake up this morning to deal with dummy mourning, and wanting to watch lazytown. 10 hr day at work, back to deal with t1 1/2 hr tantrum over custard creams.

Friday night, wine, so don't want to remind myself, but here goes:

1) weeing on the toilet seat,

2)(DD (3)) refusal to wipe bottom, agony over dummies, repetitive whingeing

3) I feel like I'm the inaudible woman with the older two boys who merrily ignore me until their father roars at them ...

Have chucked out so much accumulated junk today. I am so fed up of moving useless tat from one place to another.

And breathe..

Oh yes, stones and leaves and feathers and any useless bit of tat picked up from the road which you are supposed to know is treasure...

Fillyjonk (I know this isn't supposed to be about advice) but couldn't you see if someone on mumsnet with older DCs has another identical pink plate?

Reading this thread makes me feel better. Somehow rarely see friends children doing this stuff so good to know I'm not the only one.

lol i should probably do that except it seems absurd to pander to it

and in a few months i will need THREE identical plates, grr

Morning tv doesn't work on the weekends anymore . It used to keep dd quiet & entertained while I quietly braced myself for the day (usually by coming on here!) but now she wants to come on the CBeebies website straight away - or as is the case this morning, is wailing because she wants a "different" breakfast when in fact she's got a bowl full of all the breakfasts together! I'm just trying to ignore her...

breakfast arrgh

Managed to persuade dh to give DDs breakfast this morning and hid under the duvet.

Never mind famines, wars and earthquakes, running out of raisin wheats is officially THE end of the world...

And why don't the people who make petit filou make all the pots identical? My DDs will only eat the ones with pictures of girls on and throw tremendous tantrums if they end up with a boy pot..... tantrums before 8 am, marvellous

Our day actually got worse - dd took some persuading (thankfully in a non-punishing, reasoning, choice-giving sort of way) to come out to the shops with us but then kicked up a huge stink when boyf refused to carry her & then refused to go any further. I had to carry her kicking & screaming back to the house (having agreed to go to the shops on my own and leave boyf with her) and actually slipped over with her. It could have been so much worse, but luckily only I was injured- scraped hand & a sore back (probably twisted it funny).

Ever since then, she's been whinging about absolutely anything she can think of. I know I say this far too frequently, but I think she's tired.....

I can't wait to go up the shops! (going in 20 mins).

It comes to something when a trip to the supermarket is a treat!! According to dh it counts as time to myself. marvellous...

I don't think it's a coincidence at all that all 'parenting gurus' with their endless 'helpful' advice are either men or women with no children.
At the sharp end you know it's mayhem whatever you do. I type as someone who has a sore throat from shouting and has just popped her daughter's balloon because she stole her brother's and made me wrestle it from her hands while also driving the car. Why they make such a fuss about mobile phones while driving I cannot imagine. It would make much more sense to ban anyone from driving two or more children under the age of....oh....30?

I was SO glad when yesterday was over!! I'm determined today will be better, although I've already started out by coming on here, dd is just playing with her toys.

I think yesterday she had hardly any proper 1:1 attention from me, plus boyf was here, 2 people to play up to! it didn't stop at the supermarket thing btw, there was bother when i left the house too, and then later on she did her slamming the door & tongue thing again when I was trying to get her to help tidy up. Thank GOD she was pretty good getting ready for bed, which I didn't expect! It took a while for me to chill out in the evening.

I really don't want to be physically manhandling her any more, but what DO you do when they refuse to budge when you're supposed to going somewhere???

I leave the house and shut the front door. 30 seconds later when I come back in they're generally pretty willing to come with me.... hmmm not sure it's very good parenting tho..

lol Vivace about driving with the kids, it's SOOO dangerous!!

I went into my room & shed a few tears. . Thankfully for both of us, she soon came in saying "I've done it mummy."

Is anyone else still going insane?

dd has a habit of staying up reading her books, even getting up playing with her toys and last night was the last straw - I went to bed just gone 10 and I could still hear her playing/reading! This morning I went in to find her asleep on the floor with her teddies, a few toys strewn about the place, and face paints smeared on her bed.

DD1 keeps chewing her hair, it's disgusting. Her face yesterday when I got the kitchen scissors and threatened to cut her hair with them... Feel v guilty now (but didn't actually do anything with the scissors...)

Our morning:
Me: who wants porridge?
DS2: ME
DS1: Not me - I want rice krispies and weetabix and noughts and crosses.
Me: you can have rice krispies and noughts and crosses. if you eat it all, you can have weetabix
DS1 upon being presented with cereal: but I wanted to pour the milk.
Me: Sorry, I didn't know
DS1: well now I'm not eating it
Me: fine. go hungry
DS1: And I said I wanted weetabix
Me: repeated previous explanation
DS2: I want weetabix
Me: but you said you wanted porridge (which was now midway through being made)
DS2: I WANT WEETABIX, I WANT WEETABIX ad infinitum
Me: X!&* under breath - fine, have bloody weetabix
DS2 then sees me putting porridge in my bowl
DS2: I WANT PORRIDGE, I WANT PORRIDGE
Me: <deep breathe> do you want porridge or weetabix? last chance before I string you up by your toes
DS2: porridge.
Fine. We eat in relative silence for a few minutes
DS1: I also want porridge.
Me: Well now there's none left
DS1: I WANT PORRIDGE, I WANT PORRIDGE
Me: rams head into wall and leaves them to scream before calmly re-entering and offer toast.
Me: Would you like marmite or jam on your toast? And thus commences round two...

Oh thankyou thankyou thankyou for this thread. I really thought it was just my children and that I'd spoilt them rotten with too many choices and that it's my fault.

This is how something easy peasy like drinks go in my house:

Me: (to either child) would you like a drink?

Child: yes please, oj please in my special cup.

(so off I go to prepare said drink in said cup.

child: Noooooooo!! I said blackcurrant in my pink cup!

Me: <.........baffled......>

Child: Waaaaah! (tantrum for an hour)

Oh god, and the walk to school in the morning is such a battle. Everytime I think I've got all the bases covered, they come up with something new to whinge about. The other morning DS whined and walked at a snail's pace because he was cold and needed his gloves. It was 20 degrees FFS, we happened to walk in the shade for 5 mins and the resulting whinge lasted all the way to school.

Last night DS twatted about in his room until 9.30pm and then decided he couldn't possibly sleep without a drink. We said No, he could have had a drink at 7 when we put him to bed, he then tantrumed for another 2 hrs until I gave in and then went straight to sleep, leaving me feeling horribly guilty that he was obviously really thirsty and hadn't been swinging the lead at all.

He woke up and immediately launched into Prime Whine Mode, then curled up on the sofa whimpering, I deduced that he's obviously poorly and that's why he got in a state last night. So we've knocked school on the head for today, admittedly he's under the weather but I feel like he's somehow got one over on me <paranoid>.

Joshandjamie, I could have written that word for word but substituting DS2 for DD. Honestly, exactly the same conversation here.

So glad this thread is here.
So many times I have felt like I am the only one with terribly behaved DC who fight, ignore, shot scream and hit.
I has made me feel so low at times , nothing I do is right.

I have come on here and posted about behaviour and been told try this/that, but all I want really is someone to say - It is normal, Having DC is often lonely, and shit.

I sympathise totally. stones - every bloody where. Grandad has a stick that he keeps at their house for dd1 (the dog got it last week) I went home, leaving kids there before she noticed! .
The pair of them have to empty juice from their cups into another receptacle (box, potty, nappy sack) what the hell are you supposed to do with that one. I can't not give them access to drinks all day. DD1 has unscrewed the stairgate from the door to the living room because she wanted to get out. But then her and dd2 just run off in opposite directions leaving me running around the house like a mad woman. If I am stupid enough to leave baby wipes in the living room while I dispose of nappy sacks they steal a load and hide them. Next time I leave the room (to go to the loo, make a drink) they unsecrete them and 'clean' the tv/windows etc.
Whatever size spoon I give dd1 is the wrong one. Even if she picks it herself.
Milk has to be poured over her dinner - then dd2 copies.
When DH gets home the mayhem continues til he tells them off. Then its temper tantrums all around and I'm left with 2 screaming snotty kids and a grumpy arsed DH!!
Oh and GOD help me if I try to put dd1 in trousers and a long sleeved top . . . .

ALL these things have happened in my house So if it's sooo commonplace why oh why when I talk to my friends in RL about it do they look at me aghast, as if I'm a terrible mother and clearly not in control of my children???

Because
1. They can't admit to it
2. They think you will judge
3.They think they are the only one and really you are exaggerating

This is my experience. I really believed all of the above and it was only on a drunken and rare night out did some confess to life being the same. Others live with their head in the clouds

pmsl, sorry!

J&J - your breakfast conversation, exactly the same though I can't imagine having to deal with 2! Why do we try giving them a choice???

NotDoingTheHousework - I keep a (non-spillable) bottle on dd's bedside table. No excuses for getting up!

OMG DD1 is peeling her sausages AND her peas...

Today is going to be one of THOSE days. So far DS2 has not stopped moaning/screaming/crying/shouting from the moment I've got up.

We've had the regular fights about toast (what topping and whether it should be left whole, cut in half or quarters - apparently he wanted it cut in star shapes - silly me not being able to whisk that up at 7am)

Older brother eventually hit younger brother, which led to more screaming. When I asked older brother why he'd hit, he said: 'because he was being annoying'. And I had to say, I agreed with him. Sigh.

deaftowhinging- my dd does that! Both!

our day started similarly j&J. woke dd up, wailed "I don't want to go to CM's" (I'm at work today). went to get breakfast:

Me: "What do you want for breakfast?"
dd: <<wail>>
Me: "Do you want shreddies or fruit'n'fibre or weetabix?"
dd: <<wail>>
Me: "Or all together?"
dd: <<wail>>
Me: OK, if you don't choose I'll choose for you. What do you want?
dd: <<wail>>
Me: 1,2,3...
dd: <<wail>>
Me: Right, Fruit'n'fibre...
dd: NOOOO!!
Me: Last chance - you choose -
dd: <<wail>>
Me: OK I'LL choose...
dd: points to shreddies, wailing of course.
Me: "OK, shreddies.."
Put dd down to get the shreddies.
dd: <<wails>> NO I WANT ALL TOGETHER!!!

AAAAGHH!!!
This kids is nearly 5 ffs!!

Thing is, i do manage to stay relatively calm these days, esp first thing in the morning, cos I understand she just needs to wake up & get some food down her. But god on a work day it's the LAST thing you need first thing in the morning!!

My sympathies Caprica. My boys have truly driven me nuts today. It's like they've been possessed by devils and are deterimed to destroy everything. And the backchat is driving me insane. sigh sigh sigh

Hello. Can I join in as well?

Today has been all right so far, but the combination of DS (4.6), DD (2.8) and me sometimes drives me to distraction.

It is often DS who is the one having the tantrums, or at least they go on for longer. DD will do a short, sharp tantrum, but then all is forgotten. DS will (and sometimes does) go on and on and on and on.....

The more the merrier! welcome, idris! Maybe it's an age thing - I'm sure dd's tantrums used to be shorter lived when she was going through the terrible twos.

we had the usual wailing at hair washing tonight, and then when it was time to get out of the bath she didn't want to get out, cue crying for ten minutes afterwards. Nice bedtime stories though

oh FFS.
I swear dd's behaviour is getting worse.

Today and last week too she refused to come to the table for tea. Today she wanted to eat at her own little table (on the sofa) which I don't allow esp for ricey dishes because of the mess. She kept trying to get at her bowl of food then running away crying when I was stopping her and repeating that she could have it when she sat nicely on her chair, so in the end I had to count to 3 and threaten to throw it away, she came then. She ate some, then when she still had some left she started whining for pudding, when in fact I banned pudding ages ago but she still whines for it every mealtime (when I went back to work my mum had her 1 day a week and introduced the concept of pudding, and now of course school dinners includes it as well )!

Sounds really cruel probably, but seriously, when pudding was a given, we had arguments EVERY TIME because she would eat 2 mouthfuls of main course then whine for pudding, and I never wanted to be one of those parents who made their children eat when they didn't want to and for pudding to become the reward for eating the main.

Today just before tea she was saying "I'm starving i want something to eat NOW"

anyway so, once again i'm just not in the mood for playing with her and she wants to play noughts and crosses! still, bathtime in 10.......

Caprica, I just had my 4 year old throw a large pair of plastic goggles at my head while I was driving the car because I wouldn't open his window (because it had been open and he repeatedly put his arms out and I warned him several times not to but he continued).

So I did the ultimate in bad mothering (actually the penultimate as the ultimate would be doing it rather than threatening it) - I said that if he EVER did anything like that again, I'd stop the car and let him out and drive off. not my finest moment but I'd had enough.

In fact in honour of this thread, I have started a blog. Only three days in but I'm finding it cathartic to write about the things they do. The first post is my exact post from here.

here's the link http://homeworkingmum.blogspot.com

Hang in there. Have wine.

Sorry - that should be http://homeofficemum.blogspot.com

oh oh ,can I join too?

I deserve honarary membership honest.

Nothing is right for my children.
It does not matter how hard I try.

And I know this is not about advice, but think of it as a cautionary tale... never, ever allow your children to eat hot chocolate fudge cake for breakfast as a treat becuase they have missed a birthday party.

You will rue the day.

lol Ruby! Here, I refrain from the other way round - offering cereal at any other time of the day! dd's favourite meal of the day is her breakfast...

snacks are becoming the bane of my life. I solved one problem by making sure i bring a snack with me when i pick her up from anywhere, but now that's not enough, once she's eaten it she wants more, even if we're going home to cook tea. The weekends aren't so bad because I fill her snack fridge and she can help herself.

I'm kind of looking forward to half term, hoping that being away from school will calm dd down a bit or at least that all that time together will mean there'll be more quality time as opposed to having to rush here & there or make tea or get ready for bed etc. At same time i'm sure there'll be many meltdown moments!

J&J love your blog! Very humourously written although we all know how excruciating it really is!

We have just had a nervous breakdown becuase I am out of mango juide. It is a hard life.

I just sliced a strawberry rather than leaving it whole. You would have thought the world was coming to an end.

Good GOd woman! What were you thinking?
Get a grip and provide an appropriate level of service.

I know. I should be flogged really.

DD2 (nearly 3)sitting on a small table in the garden. DD1 (4.5), usually a very caring (esp of sibling), if slightly trying, child, runs up and pushes her off and the table over on top of her. WTF?????

We've just had the worst bedtime in a long time, she kept getting up for stupid reasons, i finally took away her CDs and she still got up & i lost i & screamed at her. Had to go back in to explain more calmly why i was so angry, the importance of staying in bed/sleeping etc. she cried for about 10 mins for her CDs (no way she's getting them back!) but all seems quiet now.

i don't know WHAT'S got into her recently, she's just really pushing her luck all the time. She's absolutely lovely as long as she's doing what she wants to do, but as soon as there's something that needs to be done (get dressed, have tea, stay in bed!) i hit a brick wall. i feel like i've started going wrong somewhere, and losing control or authority. bloody alfie kohn...ever since reading his book i've been feeling uneasy but i've found it impossible to stop using 1-2-3 threats. i'd never get her to do anything otherwise!

ah well. hopefully half term will iron some things out, i'm determined to spend some proper time doing stuff with her, her way too, get connected again!

Caprica, I sat in my car sobbing for about 10 minutes after a particularly stressful bed-time last night. Was not a million miles away from just driving off until I looked up and saw my v v sad 4yo looking at me from the living room. How shit do I feel now??!

oh dear! I'm glad I'm not the only one! I've got a sore throat now too, i must have really screamed at her because all I screamed was STOP IT, the rest of the time I was just speaking in a cross voice!

Ho