Ok so we have spent the whole afternoon clearing out the pit of the spare room that DP has slept in on a mattress since DS was born 10 months ago.

DS now officially has his own room and we plan to start some kind of sleep improvement from tonight.
He has never slept thorough the night and wakes frequently and will only BF back to sleep.

Our plan is to offer milk from a beaker when he wakes and to keep putting him back into his cot when he cries. I am absolutely dreading it and will probably go to bed extremely early (earlier than I do already!!)

DP is ecstatic to be spending the night in a bed again and I must admit our bedroom looks lovely and tidy again now its been de-babied.

We really need him to start sleeping better than he does currently as I am back to work in 6 weeks and it would be nice to actually get to do something of an evening instead of running up and dowstairs.

Will post tomorrow for an update... anyone else doing sleep training??
Wish me luck...

how did it go mmelody?

my 5mo is waking every 1-2hrs and has to bf to sleep. So we are co-sleeping but not really out of choice and dh would love to get out of our spare room. also going back to work in 6 weeks and need evenings to DO things (also have a 2.1yo)

what method are you using? i like the NCSS book but not working so far!

best of luck

Hi.. Well it wasn't as bad as we thought it would be. He had his bath and I got him ready for bed in his 'new' room which instantly sparked him wide awake boy instead of his usual sleepy self. I was hoping I could put him sleepily into his cot but he was having none of it.
So BF and put him in his cot awake.. after about 5 mins he started crying so we did CC starting at 1 min with 1 min increse to 5 mins. It was hellish but DP was really supportive and reminded me of why we were doing it. It took 40 mins of CC till he finally fell asleep.. though it was in my arms!

He slept all the way through till 11.30pm (hasn't done that for a while) and I fed him and put him back in his cot.. he went back to sleep. I didn't though and spent most of the night wide awake and anxious . He woke again at 3am and once again I fed him and put him back into his cot.. I was convinced he would shout at this one.. but he went back to sleep though only till 4.40am when he woke up and had a poo Now this stumped me a bit as he is usually up for the day around 5.30am.. so I changed him and put him back ito his cot which is when he screeched the place down...We tried CC for about 15 mins but it just felt pointless as it was nearing get up time... I guess we should have persevered as he was very tired (and so was I)

weasle I guess we are just using a kind of 'kind' CC as I believe that he does need some of the feeds at night (he is a tiny boy)
We tried the NCSS but it just doesnt cut it..

I never would have thought he would have spent the night in another room.. but he did and I guess now we need to stick to it (it is hard getting in and out of bed after co sleeping for so long though)
Once he is used to sleeping alone and is a tiny bit older then we shall tackle the night feeds!!

He is in the bath with DP at the moment and I am just about to start on night 2.. will keep you posted

How did it go last night? Sounds like you did really well the first night, keep up the good work, it's hard, but it will be worth it

Second night.. he went down a little better.. only took 20 mins CC and he went to sleep in his cot... though was awake approx 2 hourly for the rest of the night.. this blimmin hot weather doesnt help as his room is so hot and I think he is thirsty. He went into his cot after a swift BF every time. He also did a poo again at 4.30am (AAAGGGHHH) I changed him in the dark and tried CC but he was wide awake boy.. he cried for about 5 mins and then started playing and babbling.. we were up for the day by 5

He went straight down and asleep this evening at 6.30pm, but we have been swimming and to park so he was bushed.. he woke briefly at 8pm and was boiling hot so have put a fan in his room and all has been quiet so far.

The problem I now face is the night time wakings which is going to be a whole other ball game as he always has a feed and he does seem to need some of them as he really gulps it down... Its also really hard having to trot accross the landing which I have never done... also poor DD 12 was woken a lot last night and has gone to bed especially early tonight... (fingers crossed)

Thanks for the support Bodkin

Hi, I was on your other thread.

I would have said it might be a bit much for him changing room and doing CC all at once, but the advantage is it may be quicker in the long run...

Are you absolutely sure he needs the night feeds? (I do know how you feel as my DD2 is also slim and slight and I thought she really needed the extra feeds) Couldn't you just do some extra ones during the day to make up for it? Eating or drinking at night means their digestive system keeps working and that in itself can make them wake up more...and poo.

Remember that whatever you do they will need it done in order to sleep or go back to sleep. Be wary of simply substituting one 'bad' habit for another. I'm a great believer in the importance of cues and routine.
I gave a big soft toy to DD2 (20 mo) a couple of nights ago hoping she would be content to cuddle it in her cot if she woke at night. She likes it so much that she forgot to bfeed at bedtime tonight for the first time in her life and a bit too......

Good luck
Be firm but kind!

I know exactly what you mean about the night feeds... Mine usually has at least 1 and usually 2 a night... I keep thinking that maybe it's time to stop, but then I'll think, oh but she's got diarrohea (sp?), she needs the extra fluids, or it's hot or it's a growth spurt... there's always something that convinces me she needs them. Last night she stirred at 10pm and squawked for about 3 seconds before going back to sleep, so i know she can do it herself if she's not hungry or thirsty!

Anyway, it sounds like progress is being made on settling him in the cot in the evening, which is a really good start!

night 3 and he went into his cot awake.. rolled over and fell asleep Am not convinced though and will need ongoing proof that it is working!

If it has worked then I am happy to CC the night wakings.. my god the thought of even half a nights sleep is almost unthinkable! Fingers crossed

mmelody - it's working, he's getting used to the new routine and cues. Well done.
Be aware that you may have to do it again after he's been ill or teething etc but it'll never be as hard as the first time.

well done sounds great!
am watching with interest
how long does he feed for?
if its a few secs then its settling but if its over a few mins then hes hungry
if latter i would suggest weaning down those slightly - time how long he feeds for and then each night reduce it by a minute each time, increasing milk/food in day
we are doing this at the minute - ds too distracted in day to bf so takes most of his calories at night. problem is as soon as i latch him in i fall asleep as am so knackered. so have started setting an alarm at the appropriate time - after 17 mins next night 16 etc etc
god its hard work sometimes isn't it

Well he was awake about a zillion times last night... well at least 6 times! He woke at 9, 11, 1.30, 3, 3.30, and up for the day with a huge poo at 4.43

I actually managed to only feed him for two of those wakings.. god its hard though all this tooing and froing in the middle of the night.. I have to keep reminding myself that its all going to pass and that this will be worth it. luvaduck I think DS seems to ned at least one of the feeds and he chugs down the first one but the rest I definately think are comfort ones. He is so used to just waking up and screaming for boob. Thanks for the encouragement shitemum (im sure you are not a shitemum!!!!) It will be interesting to see how he goes down tonight.

We did CC and yes its crap because you lie their waiting for them to cry but it does work - give it time and dont bottle out you need to be consistent. . I was told to stop BF and to go in every five mins. They shouldnt need to feed in the night its just a comfort thing, DS used to wake up feed for 5 mins and go back to sleep. The first time i did it I stood outside Ds door in tears. Dont pick him up just go in stroke his back or tumy - no eye contact or speaking and walk out.

Well night four.. went down in his cot awake.. smiled at me, rolled over and went to sleep much celebration!!!!!!!

BUT.. was awake and screeching at 10, 12, 1, 2.30, 3.30 and up for the day at 4.30 {exhausted and fed up emoticon)
I tried to offer a cuddle and settle him back down but he was having none of it and I ended up feeding every time..
I am going to have to night wean or I will be on my knees at this rate. We are going to offer milk in a beaker or bottle at night when he wakes and then do CC.. am DREADING it!!

TBH I wouldnt offer him milk in a bottle as it will become a habit and he will still wake for it.
Try doing CC at night too, it's exhausting i know. (We had a bad night too last night as we brought DD2 into our bed at 5am when she woke up and she didnt sleep for an hour and a half...maybe i should follow my own advice

Mmelody - you are my inspiration. Am watching and learning.

Yup - it sounds like you may have to have to bite the bullet and go the whole hog with the CC - and it does seem to have worked with the settling into the cot at the beginning of the night, so in theory it ought to work just as well on the night wakings.

I have fingers crossed for you!

You are right SM.. I am such a softie when it comes to night feeds.. I am going to find it very tough indeed denying him boob as he is going to protest so much. But I feel that as we have started this.. we have to go the whole hog otherwise he will be back in with me and it will have all been in vain.
I hope you get a better night tonight with your lo

My poor DP is bang in the middle of uni exams but is keen to get some sleep improvement for DS and me.. he is the one that is keeping me sane at the moment and was the voice of reason at 4.45am when I was ready to pack it all in.

My Dad is coming to stay tomorrow morning for a night so we are going to postpone the CC for night wakings untill he has gone.. (I love my Dad very much but he is convinced that all DS needs is to eat meat and he will sleep better... we are vegetarian) we are going to start on Saturday night.

Pinkjenny.. I have scoured MN for absolutey months looking for solutions to DS sleep problems.. Ive always known that it needs to get worse before getting better but have been so blimmin tired all the time its hard to get the motivation to change anything.
I am absolutely amazed that he is in a cot in his own room.. I really would have NEVER EVER thought he would settle down at the beggining of the night.. but he has.. so I need to keep hold of that as we enter the next phase.
Coping with no sleep has been the hardest thing I have ever done in my life.. I never could have imagined how it just takes over all aspects of life.. I see people glaze over when I say DS is still not sleeping.. I am back to work in 6 weeks and I would love a night out with my mates or DP so we have a lot to gain from this and NOTHING to lose!
Thanks for the support Bodkin and everyone. I think I would have lost the plot ages ago if it wasn't for MN... everyone with a baby in rl has been sleeping through since about 6 weeks....

Will keep you posted...

"everyone with a baby in rl has been sleeping through since about 6 weeks...."

I really doubt that very much!

Search for old posts by DaddyJ - he is very supportive and informed about CC. About a year ago there was a long thread on it, I appear as 'Malaleche' on it.

good luck...

"everyone with a baby in rl has been sleeping through since about 6 weeks...."

I really doubt that very much!

Search for old posts by DaddyJ - he is very supportive and informed about CC. About a year ago there was a long thread on it, I appear as 'Malaleche' on it.

good luck...

whoops!

Feb, March and May of last year.
If you search for messages containing the word 'Malaleche' posted by 'DaddyJ' in that period you'll find a few threads on CC.

I'm sure there have been plenty others since then...

have you tried a book called teach your child to sleep by millpond slep clinic

get from library?

has LOADS of solutions for almost every problem, night weaning, settling probs, naps etc

worth a go
good luck x

Just bought that on Amazon. Hey, I'm clutching at straws now, but I'm blardy knackered!

its good good luck
keep us updated!

Ok.. for those of you who are interested.. here is an update. We decided that we would not offer BF between 11pm and 5am but to offer a cuddle and water!
He went down at 6.30pm woke at 9pm and 10.50pm and BF both times. Woke at 1am and we started the new routine.. he was not a happy chappie and predictably refused the water though he did give up trying to BF after around 5mins. We did CC with intervals of 1-2 mins.. and he settled back to sleep within 30mins but he wasn't screeching the whole time and he did seem to want to go back to sleep.. but me leaving the room seemed to be a flashpoint for him waking and starting the whole cycle again
Woke again at 3am {sooooooo tired!!) and did the same again though it only took 20mins this time.. he seemed quite amused at times at the change in routine and wanted to play.
Awake again at 4.55am (aggghhh) Tried again for 20mins but as it is his natural wakeup time we decided to let him off the hook and get up.

It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be and I expected him to go mental at the lack of BF but he just seemed to take it all in his stride. We have had a nice busy outdoor day (am on my knees with tirdness) and he will be ready for bath and bed by 6pm tonight... I have tried to increse BF and fluid intake today but his nappies seem to be wet and fine. wish me luck for night two..

Oh forgot to say.. we are going the whole hog tonight and no BF after bedtime..

how old is your ds?

good luck mmelody, you are doing really well, thanks for the updates, good luck tonight.

we have had some improvement with amby hammock and occasional dummy use (but not keen on dummy full time for some reason!).

He is just over 10 months

Go for it Mmelody - I am now considering night weaning as well - so knackered and fed up of the night feeds, plus we have a few weddings coming up where I was hoping to be able to leave her at my mum's overnight!

Keep us informed with how you're getting on - so far it sounds very promising!

Night two.. Put him down at 6.30pm and he went straight to sleep.. Woke up at 8pm absolutely screaming his head off.. very unusual as he normally wakes up crying but not quite as awful as that.. tried to comfort with a cuddle but he became really inconsolable and was sobbing loads so I decided to BF him as it just felt like the right thing to do and he seemed to be in some discomfort.. maybe teething.

He woke at 12.15pm,, this was the toughest yet . I cuddled him and offered him water but he really let rip. We did CC with one min intervals and he kept it up for a full 20mins (less time than previously but far more volume!) I nearly caved in but remembered that this would all be in vain.. he went to sleep eventually in his cot with lots of shushing and back rubbing...
He woke at 3am and I prepared myself for the next round of screaming...BUT picked him up and he stopped crying immediately... put him in his cot and he went straight back to sleep
This is the good bit... I heard him grumble at 4am (as usual) but he *went back to sleep on his own* Which he has *NEVER EVER* done
Ok so he was up for the day as usual by 5am.. but still some cause for minor celebration!

He came in our bed for a huge cuddle and lovely long BF and all was well again. Another action packed day and have fingers crossed very tightly for tonight.

Im glad you have had some improvement weasle.. Bodkin I feel like there may be light at the end of the tunnel and am so glad we made the decision to night wean... I don't doubt that DS will never be a fantastic sleeper... but even if he did a few 4-5 hour stints we could get back to normal again and actually have a night out.. go for it I say.. (smile)

Well done! Fingers crossed for further improvements tonight.

I have ordered a couple of sleep-training books from the library to pore over before I get started!

With DD1 i just got on with it and it was all done and dusted in 3 nights... DD2 seems to be an altogether more stubborn creature (either that or I'm just a lot softer on her than I was with DD1!)

Ok.. night three was even better.. went down at 6.30, woke briefly at 8 and had BF. Slept till 12.15 and woke up crying.. He settled pretty much as soon as I picked him up but had trouble getting back to sleep and was quite restless so I had to resettle him about 4 times within 20mins.. BUT.. He slept all the way through till 5am.. which is an absolute flippin miracle in this house.. I was awake at 3am waiting for him to wake but I soon dropped off again

We are in complete disbelief.. though there is an air of optimism in the house now that never existed before.. Good luck Bodkin..

That is all very exciting! So basically - your DS went from 8.15 to 5am without a feed.... wow!

Just as I am about to embark on baby sleep boot camp, DD decides she is actually not the world's worst sleeper and just woke the once for a feed at 2.30 last night.. so she has a reprieve (until the next dire night )

How's it been the last couple of nights?

Hi Bodkin, sorry for the delay!
Well DS definately goes off to sleep like a dream now. Bath BF and bed all relatively easily.
we have also managed to keep up the night weaning and just offer water .. the problem is though that he still wakes up a minimum of three times a night.. which I know is marginally better than when we were co-sleeping but a pain all the same. He wakes up crying and has to be cuddled for a while and resettled... sometimes it takes just a moment but at least once a night he takes about half an hour to re-settle and cries
Last night it was 12, 2.30, 4.30 and up for the day at 5.20. Previous nights he has done a couple of four hour stretches which is encouraging... I guess its still early days.

How's it going this week mmelody? I'm lurking and watching with interest!!!!