DS is eight months old and is a terrible sleeper.

I've heard great reports about the techniques in The Baby Whisperer books and so wanted to try it for myself.

Have been having a quick look on the net and there are 2 books 'The Secrets of The Baby Whisperer' and 'The Baby Whisperer Solves all Your Problems'.

Just wondered which book is the best for dealing with sleep issues or are they both the same.

Also any positive stories resulting from these techniques will be gratefully received

I'm returning to work full time in 4 months and really need him to be sleeping through by then.

TIA

anybody?

I have read them and she does offer help with getting them to sleep.

You may find you save yourself money if you post on the sleep topics here.

You need to work out what way suits you and your bbaby.

The Secrets of the Baby whisperer is general advice for everything. I don't know about the other one but that should do the trick. You also want to think about the No Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley (I think) which really focuses on sleep and is pretty good.

Good luck

Yes, I meant to add good luck. Try to see if the people who post on sleep topics can help you, they can also give you a lot of support.

Thanks guys

I'll quiz some more people

Look on the baby whisperer website too-there are all her routines etc on there (for free!). I don't use it myself but have had a look and some things seem good

I managed to borrow the Secrets of the Baby Whisperer and the No Cry Sleep Solution from the library. I have tried bits from both; the EASY structure (eat, activity, sleep, you) from the BW and pulling baby off nipple before fully asleep so she settles at least slightly awake at bedtime from NCSS. Both had useful bits in but I didn't follow a full routine or plan from either. Good luck.

Solves All Your Problems is more specific and might be better if you're coming to her methods late (as we did). The basic premise of that book is "OK, OK, you didn't quite understand me, and I really meant is do this".

Agree that the website is useful too. Shh-pat and PU/PD worked for us in getting DS to settle himself, although you need to be pretty consistent and not 'give in' in the middle of the night which can be knackering.

I have to say i'm not hopeful of finding a solution.

ds goes to sleep ok on his own...sometimes I have to pat him.. the problem is his constant waking through the night.

Sometimes putting his dummy in works, or patting for a minute or so. But lately he has woken regularly from about midnight until 3...hard to say how many times...maybe 3. Then from then it seems he is wide awake until 4.30ish.

He almost settles with me patting him then wakes again throughout this hour and a half. If he has another hour after that I'm lucky before I give up completely and just put him in with me.

He has suffered from silent reflux since being tiny so has never slept well but I'm pretty sure the meds have the pain under control. I don't know if it's bad habits from getting a lot of attention through that or whether it's something else entirely.

It's really getting me down tbh . The closer it gets to me returning to work the more anxious I'm getting. I know I'm looking for a miracle solution that probably doesn't exist.

Thanks again for your advice.

wezzle don't give up! we used baby whisperer methods for both our DCs, and it really did help us out of a hole.

try the website if you want quick & cheap advice. really, it is helpful, the people on there are experienced.

the first step you may want to take is observing and stepping back for a few nights to really listen and maybe wait a bit longer than normal before taking action. try to determine the cause of the wakings, and/or the things which settle him. Pantley's approach is similar IIRC...you want to figure out the problem (as much as possible) before attempting to put a solution into place.

once you have an idea what the issue is, you probably want to come up with a plan. and stick to it. and implement it gently.

i know what it's like to try to fix a problem when you're tired....nearly impossible. but if you can get some inspiration it will help!!

Good luck

also check out fizzbuzz's note on this thread. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/8/526728

Thanks lilQ.

I'm willing to try anything.

Wezzle, stop the patting. The BW is GOD as fa as I am concerned, she solved dd's sleep which was truly horrific when nothing else could.

CC crying made me cry , but she was awful, and so grizzly due to tiredness in the day.

Bw says patting wakes up older babies. This is what we did...well, it's on the other htred which someone linked to...but...

Put him to bed, lay him down, kiss night night etc, say bedtime and leave. Que crying, go straight back in, repeat, no eye contact. Leave, go straight back in....ad nauseum until crying stops...do not give up, it does work, dd was truly awful. There are loads of threads on here about my desperation. Has he got cuddly or anything?

DD has a bunny, and when she starts now, I just stagger in, mumble "bunnybynny", give her said disgusting sucked rabbit and walk off. She usually settles back.

You have all my sympathy, but it does work...

That is waht the book recommends tbh, unless anyone knows anything else. It is a useful book, but what I have written is her method in a nutshell.

Have just realised your LO won't be standing up???I think, then you are meant to pick them up, as soon as they stop crying put them down. Pick them up straight away again if crying. If they cry 1/2 way down, lay them down, but don't let go and pick up straight away (I think)

It sounds like bad habits in your lo to me. Is he tired in the day

we used bw with both the boys, the secrets of is great if you are pregnant or have a newborn but I would say that much of it is wasted as your child is older.
good luck! it is so hard to function when sleep deprived. hope you find a solution soon

It works for older ones as well! She adjusts her methods for older babies.

The important thing with older ones is not to pat, chat to or rock them. Try and avoid taking them out of cot unless doing PU/PD.

I could write a thesis on this, I know it all off by heart!

He only has a couple of naps through the day
sometimes 1.5 hours sometimes 30-40 minutes.

He does get grouchy on the days where he has short catnaps. You'd think he'd be out for the count all night. No chance. I think 6 consecutive hours is the most he's ever done. Typically he goes 4 hours then the waking starts and it's pretty much on the hour every hour or worse.

He only has his dummy for comfort which he doesn't put in by himself even though he can . I'll have to see if he'll get himself attached to something cuddly.

He's got me completely stumped (and exhausted). Both DDs were a doddle compared to him.

Thanks for your advice Fizz. Actually are you busy for the next couple of weeks. Do you fancy doing swap?

I'll check the BW website for the free info. I'll probably get the book as no doubt the little man will cause me more problems before we're through.

me again. reading this through, i might focus first on building up trust with him, while you break the habit of taking him into your bed. maybe you'll need to stay in his room for a few nights to comfort him while this is being fixed. once he's able to settle in his room (instead of yours) you can wean him off of your presence in the room. just an idea...

Hi lilQ, he's still in our room .

I know ideally I should have put him in his own room, but he'll have to share with DD and I didn't want to risk him disturbing her and then having them both to deal with.

I really don't know what to do for the best tbh. Just don't know what I've been doing wrong.

Yes, I think perhaps you need to wean him of your presence as well.

The BW suggests putting a mattress in the room, and moving it further and further away each night. Not sure this is entirely feasible mind.......

I still have to insert dd's dummy at night sometimes, although she will find it on her on as well and she is 2 in July

I think I might have to bite the bullet and just put him in with DD (and a mattress for me if need be - not looking forward to that though).

Perhaps i could get DD some earplugs .

BTW Fizz, your first post really made me . The first sentence sounds very stern. Are ye a teacher?

I've just heard him crying there...better get off to bed and see if I can get a couple of hours.

<<self pitying sigh>>

Thanks again everyone for your comments

Our dd had terrible sleep problems too- she just could not switch herself off. We used BW successfully, at about the same age.
She is now 2.3, and is never going to be the world's best sleeper, but she is tons better, especially at the going back to sleep bit.
She sleeps from 7.45pm to 7.30 am, usually with no waking, though this is affected by teething, colds, etc.
The only thing is she has to be in her own bed for us.

At nursery though, she is better- still naps for about an hour each day after lunch, with a roomful of toddlers, so not bad!

Hi EPPM, that sounds like heaven!

You and fizz may find me stalking you over the next few weeks for advice

Really off to bed now, night all.

Wezzle, my two are only 14mo apart and we have 1 kids' bedroom so I know exactly how you feel about moving them in together. Trust me though, the sooner you do it, the easier it is. They will get used to each other quicker than you think. I started with naptimes - putting my youngest in the kids' room so she'd get used to it. After a few days I ended up having them nap together and the first half hour was horrible but miraculously, after fussing for all that time and me about to give up, they both settled and slept together. I was so shocked.
I play a lullaby CD, have done since my eldest was v small, and am convinced that helps them both 'tune each other out'.
I really think your prob centres on your DC being in your room, you hearing every peep and groan, and not letting them settle themselves. They will learn how, really, you just have to make a start of it!

(whenever I got really fed up and wondering if we'd ever survive with one kids' room, I thougth of all the millions around the world who put more than one child in a room and managed to get by...good luck!)

Hi lilQ, I know you're right. There's exactly 2 years between them and I'm worried that DD will disturb him when she goes to bed and then he'll disturb her through the night.

I think I'll try this weekend. Maybe my mam would have DD for a couple of nights while I atleast get him used to that room...or do you think jumping straight in there would be better?

Damn these small houses!

Baby Whisperer Solves All your problems is fab, fab, fab. Can't recommend it enough - my ds was a nightmare sleeper for first 3 months. This book goes into a lot of details on sleep depending on age and it was a godsend.

It works and its kind - no crying it out. We still do pick up/put down when ds has a funny five minutes and it still works.

Best of luck

Ah, thanks Penny. That's the kind of story I like to hear.

I think I'll order it today.

Just hope reading it doesn't send me to sleep....I'm knackered

I'm so tired I've just nearly put coffee on my cornflakes

Coffee on cornflakes might be just the pick up you need!

God, yes I am a teacher . Time for a career change obviously!

And I used to have to cope with teenagers all day on no sleep. It was hell....that's why I had to get dd sorted

lolo fizz

I could just here that teachers tone in your post.

I think I'd do what I was told if I was in your class.

hear obviously not here

I'll blame that on sleep deprivation

I'd just jump straight in! They will learn how to fall asleep in each other's company. Really. (If you let them)

To make it easier sometimes if I know one of them is much more tired than the other, I'll put them down first, then get the other ready. By the time the other goes in, even if they're loud as hell, if the first one is asleep, they are generally out and don't wake up.

Even if both are full of beans though, they eventually will get tired of babbling, singing, and talking to each other.

If there is a lot of crying or screaming though, you may have to pop in to do pick up/put down (PU/PD - babywhispere technique) just to let them know you're not abandoning them, but that you are going to put them into bed and leave them there!

I really think the book will help. Please let us know how it goes!