I'm uneasy and yet strangely defiant about this.

The secondary school we're in the catchment for is two miles away IF we're lucky enough to get it. There's a 50/50 chance we'll have to go to one even further away UNLESS DH rekindles the Catholic within. Then we'd be able to send the kids to a really good, Catholic school with large grounds about two hundred yards away.

DH was brought up Catholic. He stopped going to church and has one or two major problems with Catholisism, but also relates to a large percentage of it. He's keen and wants to go ahead. He has already begun the process.

He'd have to get the kids baptised, be confirmed himself ... and in all honestly he wouldn't be doing it were it not for the school issue.

One of my children has a serious medical condition which needs constant management. I would be very unhappy to have him travel a long way from home every day.

I still feel confused and guilty though. What do you reckon?

Is it wrong to use church to ensure your children get into the popular school? YES

Would I do it? YES

Naga this is exactly my quandry. The options are pretty stark though.

I wouldn't judge that harshly, myself. I think lots of slightly lapsed Catholics have their minds focussed (shall we say) by school entry. If it brings people into church, and they then connect with what they find there, that's a good thing, surely. Having one or two major problems with aspects of catholicism is pretty widespread, I'd say -- how many catholic families do you see these days with 7, 8 or 9 kids?

It doesn't sound as if he's cynically faking a faith for the express purpose of duping the schools, which I think is a bit more dubious.

I reckon the Parish Priest and the Headmaster will see right through it.

And what is more I hope they do.

I think it really depends on whether he intends to continue being a practising Catholic and to keep taking the children to church every week after they have all got into the school. If so then I don't see a problem but if not then I don't think its right but i doubt he's the only one to do it.

I'm probably similar to your husband but C of E. I too have started going to church again for school purposes. Maybe hypocritical, probably wrong but the school at the centre of our community (an area of a part of London) is a church school and our nearest community school is failing. Until something is done to provide a decent education for all I don't think it is unreasonable that people go to church for this purpose. I wouldn't actually blame someone who had NO religious beliefs doing this although I know a lot would disagree with that.

That said, now that this year's school allocations have come out (dd is next year) it turns out I won't have been going to church long enough to count so, I could stop going and be no worse off in terms of chance of getting in. But, I will probably keep going so in some ways from the church's point of view, its probably 'worked' to get me back in !

We were in the exact same position with primary education. In the end decided a good school was worth more than my principles - will get shot down for saying it but hey-ho.

The church gets more bums on seats, more contributions in the collection box (well, our priest asks for a set amount per person by ddm!!), help with the summer fayre, cakes baked for various events etc.

So long as the commitment is for the length of time the children are at the school and not just until the forms are signed, I don't see a problem. There will be many families in the same boat - don't stress yourself about it.

Are they at a non-catholic primary? Surely that would count against them. Or are you thinking way into the future? If they are not in primary yet teh schoolmay have changed beyond recognition in 7 years.

I would never do it but I know tons of people who do and loads who lie about where they live too.

nope, i think it is reprehensible.
do you want your kids heads full of catholicism?
wouldn't do it myself and feel very very uncomfortable to see other people doing it tbh.

but you all sound lovely and good luck and all that fluff

How is his practising Catholicism going to affect you and the family, though? To be blunt, is he going to start expecting sex without contraception or campaigning against reproductive choice? And before anyone accuses me of anti-catholic bigotry, the misogyny anti-contraception stuff is still a major factor in some people's catholic faith, and itis something that would matter bigtime to me.

Here's another difficulty -- I've never agreed with state funded faith schools. I think it's unfair.

However I think the other options are just as unfair, namely that my children - one of whom has a serious lifelong medical condition - will either go to an acceptable school which is far too far away or an unacceptable school with is even further. 50/50 chance.

So do I dump on my principles or my kids?

DH will continue going to church now and again. Certainly not every week though. He likes the idea of setting aside time for connection with spirit be it fishing, praying, meditating or other. So you see his brand of spiritualism, which stated with Catholisism, really has mutated into something pretty lose.

I also think, 'Well I'm paying for this school through taxes so ...'

Oops that's my fear. 'heads full of catholisicm' bit. But I figure they will have mine and DHs life views to counter, or add to what they learn at school.

My biggest fear is the church's views on homosexuality tbh. I don't know if it would become an issue in the school setting.

mamaloco thanks. That's the kind of post I was hoping for.

I'm obviously interested in all views though.

If you get your children into the school and you undermine the ethos, you will be asked to remove them.

You are blissfully unaware, arent you?

It can be pretty tough to get into a good Catholic secondary school even for practicing Catholics whose children were baptised at birth and spent their primary years in a Catholic Faith school. In addition to good grades, they need a personal recommendation from Father, the family needs to have done voluntary work at the Church for just about most of primary school, such as cleaning the Church, ironing all the linen of the Church, organizing the fete, etc. And, being an altar boy/girl really counts in your favour.

Most (primary) schools demands attendance in Church 3 out of 4 sundays for at least 3 years prior to it giving any bearing on a school application.

Your children will not have gone through 1st Communion either, which most children do in year 3.

But Good Luck to you, and all that.

I dont think I have ever heard of somebody suddenly buying into the Catholic faith for secondary school before.

i think if i had one shred of faith in god and went to church becuase if it, i would find mamaloco's post would make me very cross.

faith/chirchreligion isn't about cake sales is it?
or have i missed the point?

If catholicism scare you, here is food for thought.

I was chatting to a mum at my sons RC primary. We got talking about the curriculum, and she said: "One of my children came running to me and said, mum mum, is it true we come from monkeys? I dont know about that, as far as I am concerned we were created by God." She continued to say: I dont understand this modern idea of apes, what is that all about? I am a good Catholic born and bred, and WILL NOT HEAR such talk.

I have to say, my sons school is full of pretty MC business woman and lawyers, yet, they subscribe to what the Faith tells you, rather than Darwins ideas, I dont know if that is common or not, though...

oops shivers and runs away, happy to not confront this type of craziness anymore.
nuns!!!! just think about the possibility of that ffs!!
Nuns and priests and monks!!

quint my 2 eldest sons are at a very strict catholic secindry college and the teacher herself said she believed Darwins theory.

In addition to what hs already been said we did exactly what you are considering doing I cooked cleaned washed and ironed for the priest sewed all the robes made tea and coffee after mass has ds1 and 2 as altar boys baked for fetes orgnised reding rotas even went shopping with the priest- my sons were accepted into what for our area is thought to be the best and although its out of our district the priest is on the board of governors and we got places.

Would I do it agin? In a flash- my children are worth it.....good luck

The official line of the Catholic church is pro dawinian evolution. I don't know any Catholics who don't believe in it but I don't go round asking people.

I think that there is probably a big variation in views on homosexuality. The secondry school that I am hoping my dcs get into makes a big deal out of saying that biggoty and intolerence towards homosexuality is not accepted. They cover it with Yr 7 in Social and personal development.

For some schools, children baptised as infants are given priority over those baptised in year 6 etc. It depends on how oversubscribes the school is.

I wasn't banking on having to do sewing and cleaning. I don't see what that has to do with it tbh but maybe I am deluded.

We are gonna do the same bungalow - I feel a bit bad - but DH says he doesn't in the slightest considering the treatment he used to get from the brothers when he was at school in Ireland.

What do you mean about the treatment from the brothers Friday?

My dh says though he turned his back on the church part of the religeon, when he went the other day it felt like going home to his family. He's half Irish too and comes from a strong Catholic family. He and his brothers all lapsed though.

QS, I've never heard creationist stuff from Catholics. I'm not saying there aren't any, just that they'd be in the minority.

As for OP's husband, I think his 'plan' would be fairly transparent. He's not confirmed, and your children aren't baptised- I was baptised late due to illness at 1 month old. He'd also need a period of sustained church attendance with the children.

I'm not saying that it couldn't work, just that your DCs would be at the bottom of the list.

girlfrom in my experience the Catholics I know, including DHs family, take and leave the bits and pieces on the basis of whether they can relate to them or not. I've found it to be refresingly liberal.

I do worry about the gay thing though. I've got some very good, longstanding friends who are gay and it's woven into my history.

'DH will continue going to church now and again. Certainly not every week though'

If I were you I'd just start buying the uniform for the other schools. You have NO chance of getting in a Catholic secondary school.

FWIW I went to a convent school. In science we were taught evolution, in Religious classes we were taught creation. I just never realised that the two were mutually exclusive and looked on creation as something people believed in the days when they didn't have explanations for things.

FWI also W, after church EVERY Sunday, catholic primary school, convent school... my children are not going to a faith school. Not had them baptised.

The school's teaching, I wouln't worry about. There really isn't time for brain-washing when you're trying to do the National Curriculum, SATS etc.

Getting your DCs in though? It look a bit suspicious don't you think?

QS - when I went to look around a Catholic secondary school, the RE room had a display up which said something along the lines of "Most Christians believe in the theory of Evolution but that God had a a hand in it somehow"

I doubt if any Catholic school would teach anything more extreme than that - but you will inevitably get some families who have a more "traditional" approach to things at home...

bungalowbelle - how old are your dcs? I think a lot of schools would not accept children baptised after the age of 1 or 2 unless there was a very good reason - they probably get lots of people "finding" their faith again as school looms for their dcs! They don't usually look into the parents faith too much though - the fact that your dh isn't confirmed may not be an issue.

Insert d and s as appropriate

I'm a little confused. Is the op concerned with being duplicitous or is the idea of sending her kids to a Catholic school the problem?
A Catholic education does not necessarily mean having to reject Darwinism, feminism etc. I had a Catholic education and I simply don't recognise the slightly sinister reputation this often has.

I do know of an evangelical christian mother who told her children that their dog killed their cat because it was posessed by the devil.

I think that was more to do with her being a bit odd though...

Cissy I'm worried about both and trying to gather more information and views to inform my decision. Secondary school is still a couple of years away.

Were it not for my DS and his medical condition which needs daily care and monitoring I really don't think I would be considering this despite the dreadful position we find ourselves in as regards the distance of the available schools.

Think of it as convenience. Your local school happens to be Catholic. It could just as easily be C of E and I doubt there would be such a fuss if it was.

I thought we were past all that reformation crap.

Would I do it? Yes. No question. I find people have scruples about things like this until they are faced with a situation like you are in. At which stage 'pragmatism' comes in.

Everybody else looks after number 1. People fight, lie, in fact do anything to get into the school of choice. It's not fair, but nor is life.

I speak as someone recently rejected from a Catholic school because we are more than 600yds away.

CC, I do laugh at the idea some people have of children being 'brainwashed' at church schools.

Even if the schools did~ try it, the notion that children would actually listen to teachers!

Bungalow - just to answer your question about 'the brothers'! This was in 'country' Ireland and he is 33.....however there were lots of beatings, bullying and general low level violence for quite surprising things e.g. not going to mass on a Sunday / answering 'yes' to "have you had immoral thoughts about your mother", aged 9 in confession. I could go on.

Not relevant now (I hope !) but gives him a good reason to not feel bad about 'baptising' our DCs Catholic for a school !

My pal is a rampant athiest. She actively challenges any religious beliefs with her background in science. Now that she has a little girl and her hubby is a lapsed Catholic (with similar views to herself), I was stunned to learn that they were considering sending her to the local Catholic School which is one of the better schools in the area. It seems so hypocritical of her as it goes against everything she believes in or stands up for. FWIW I think it's cheating a bit and not a good example to set to your kids.

Friday that's odd and though my dh didn't have anything like the same degree of suffering he does feel he suffered for what was then his mum's/family's religeon and this somehow gives him a right to put it to good use for his kids.

Others would probably see it as good reason to lapse even further though and refuse to go near the church with the proverbial barge pole.

nope, i still have a horrible memeory of catholicism
and wold never ever send my kids to a catholic school

for me even though ofsted may say it is grat- just being a faith school and then a catholic school on top would be sufficient to stop me from sending my precious little ones there.

and to ;lie to have the privilidge is still not on tbh..
IMHO

your input is worth much much more than the school and i just don't thonk it is worth it...

Volup I worry about the example bit too, but then the way they're being shafted by the state system is a very bad example of how to treat people too so I'd rather have the bad example with the better educational prospects and the MUCH more convenient geographical advantages since it has come down to it.

Oops why was Catholic school bad for you? In what way did you dislike it?

I would do it bungalowbelle. If the school's great and it suits your kids and their situation, why not? You are not forcing them to be anything by sending them to a Catholic school. They'll either embrace it or they'll reject it. The choice will be theirs, as it is in your Dh's case.
By the way, as for you feeling guilty, all I can say is welcome to the party, you are going to feel right at home .

OP, the cleaning has a lot to do with it. Most of the parents at my sons (former) school were more than willing to help out at the Church, it is a community thing. You love your Church, you do your bit. Simple as. But more importantly, this shows your commitment to your Church.

To give you an idea. I am not Catholic, my dh is. However our children were baptized Catholic. I have been doing voluntary work at my local CofE parish church for years prior to my sons school application. I have been organizing the summer fete, art exhibits in Church, Hall hire, promotional materials for the summer fete and the hall, and I have been the Editor of the parish newsletter. This was NOT enough to secure a place at our local CofE school....

However, our combined involvement with the Catholic church, and the baptism of our children (which was quite unusal and I suppose touching to many Catholics, at least to Father) secured him a place at an excellent Catholic school.

Sometimes, it doesnt matter what you do, or dont, and for how long. The final decision is one based on regligion and how yours manifest itselves in your lives.

nuns... punishment... belief system,... superiority over all other humans.... nastiness posing as humilty

all sorts really
oh, and a small girl being made to eat her own vomit (not me!)

oh and then there is the woder issue of alterboys being abused for years and years and the priests jsut being reloacted each time.

not much really [hmmm]

Bungalow - would you get into the Catholic school on the basis of your sons medical needs? If you got a statement that said he had to go to a school that close to home, they would have to give him priority, Catholic or not... and not all Catholic schools are over-subscribed anyway - it's usually only when they are very good academically (in comparison with others nearby) - our local primary school often has places (it's good but so are all the non-church schools here). One of the local Catholic secondary schools is also quite easy for non-Catholics to get into. it often doesn't occur to non-Catholics to apply, iyswim. The LEA should be able to give you some information on numbers who applied last year, etc if you don't want to approach the school directly.

I don't think we would grapefruit. Besides his sister is older than him so she'd be the first to go and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't let his statement affect her school. I'd want them to go to the same school.

Oops that sounds more like my MILs experience of school. She remembers nasty nuns and children being forced to sit on hot radiators because they wee'd themselves.

I really think things have moved on and as for dodgy priests I was so glad to hear Pope Benedict actually apologise last week and be so open on the subject. (His speech in NY)

I think it is wrong to go back to the church 'now and again' in order to get your kids into a catholic school. For the community - you will be taking a space away from someone who genuinely is part of the catholic community. And also for your kids - do you want them to be taught the faith? As that is what will happen.

I sympathise with your dilema, but you asked what people think, and I personally don't think it would be the right thing to do.

i suppose for me it is as important (maybe more so) as just not dealing with nestle is for other people.
it sends shudders down my spine to think about lifting the lid on the sheer duplicity that is the catholic religion

hmm, will have to bow out... this is making me cross on lots of levels.

i have the deepest amount of respect for people's beliefs so i think that going into a religion for the benefits it can give you is ultimately decietful and shows an inherent lack of respect for people's profoundly felt beliefs.

On the other hand i feel absolutel distrust of catholicism form personal experience.

and i aslo the think the holy grail (ha- see what i did there ) of finding the best best school for your child and comprimising all one's beliefs to get the child into a certain school is just relentlessly crazy.

Though i totall understand your need with your ds in this regard. As another poster says, i think that to get him inot that school then maybe you need to discuss his needs and apply on that level, not go through the baptism, confirmation, cleaning, genuflecting, etc to get him in..

off to check dinner now,

Potpourri don't feel bad at all about 'taking the space from someone else in the community' because I am in the community. I am 200 yards away. It's scandalous that, along the conventional route, I'd have to send my kids out of the community on two buses to get to a less good school and still pay taxes to keep the Catholic one going. That's what's scandalous.

I think all kids should be able to walk to a decent school in their community.
So I can either moan about it and stick to my principles watching my children being badly shortchanged, or make compromises. Easier still, stand by while my dh makes the necessary compromises.

Oops thanks for your imput. I too respect the deeply held beliefs of others and this is one of my main concerns. I will be at the school gates day in day out with these parents after all. However I have it on good authority I will be one of many.

Thanks for your input everyone. I totally understand both sides and why someone might feel outraged if they are of the faith and have been contributing for years. I'd find it more convincing though if these schools weren't paid for by tax payers money.

Potpourri that was meant to say I don't feel bad ..

It's the 'why faith schools are a BAD THING' argument in a nutshell, isn;t it? The OP needs to get her DS into the nearest school because of his medical needs, yet the school is allowed to discriminate on the grounds of superstition, despite being funded by the taxpayer.

totally agree, madamez,
the people running the school have an imaginary friend and that menas Op can't get the help she needs.
grrr
and yet people still want to go to these schools <bewildered emoticom>

Do we know that the OP won't get in yet? There were lots of non-Catholic kids at my school. Perhaps if she were to apply without having her kids baptised the school would accept her.

Where I live this is the reason why parents want their dcs to go to these schools.
At the nearest non catholic secondary school to us 35% of children leave with 5 or more A to C grade gcses. At the next nearest non catholic high school 20% leave with no gcses at all. At the local Catholic school 78% leave with five or more A to C grade gcses. These schools catchment areas cover the same type of social economic group and are not selective on the basis of ability. It's pretty easy to see why these schools are popular imo.
I think what we should be questioning is why these schools are more successful and what can be done to replicate this academic achievement at non faith schools. Rather than questioning why someone would want to do what ever it took to get their child in to a sucessful school.
We are not Catholic and hadn't considered our local Catholic primary when dc2 was coming up to school age (ds1 was in special ed). He did, however go to a playgroup that was held at the school. It was at the suggestion of the playgroup leader that I went to enquire about a place. The head did explain that priority would be given to Catholic children but he would be offered a place if there were any available after this. He was offered a place, and as the school had a good reputation and he had made friends with other children attending the school, we accepted. He later transferred to the Catholic high school. Don't all schools have a published admissions criteria? I had copies of these when we were choosing a school and these also showed how many children were admitted in each catagory. So you can reasonably work out what criteria you would have to fulfil to get a be in with a chance of getting place.
I have never had any problems with the religious aspect of his education. DS was expected to take part in mass etc. but I would expect this at a faith school. In fact RE was one of his best subjects. He got an a* and only dropped 6 marks out of 200. He has a very rounded view on all religions, He was certainly taught Darwin's take on evolution, He is not anti gay and was taught about contraception. The religous part of his education was most definately centered on tolerance, morals and respect for one another. No bad thing imo. They definately integrate the non catholic children...My dd, who is now at the same Catholic primary school, regularly reads at Mass ...mainly because she is a confident young thing who will happily get up in front of the whole congregation!!
I do know of someone who did convert to Catholicism in order to get her ds into an oversubscribed Catholic school. Would I do the same? Probably not but I wouldn't have considered a Cathoilc school if it hadn't been suggested to me and, as the local schools do take non Catholics it was never necessary. That said I would never condemn someone for wanting the best available education for their dc

Some Catholic schools are harder to get into than others- the local one to me does take the children of other Christians and even non-believers.

As for the OP- if your dh is going to reconnect with his inner Catholic to access this school, one question I would consider first is what you are going to tell the children. It's not just a question of making a good impression on the local priest- the real questioning will be closer at home. The day will come when they insist on discussing his religious convictions with them. Will he tell them he had a re-conversions at the time they started school or will he tell them that he is acting a part? Think carefully about how either answer will affect their attitude towards him and towards truth in general.

Oh, and most mainstream Christians have no problem in believing that God created the world by means of evolution and that the account in Genesis is poetical language used to portray the writer's sense of awe at the majesty of the creation. So they wouldn't use it as a scientific textbook, any more than you would have used Burn's poem 'My love is like a red, red rose' to identify his girlfriend among a class of 30.

The reason you feel guilty is because you know its wrong. Whether other families do it or not is irrelevant. Lying and cheating is not the way to enter any faith, be it Catholicism or another.

If he can reconcile himself to the hypocracy of it all, then go ahead.

My mother is one of the staunchest catholics I know (apart from an aunt!). She would certainly say it was hypocritical if I were to do it (lapsed catholic, me!). However, the church itself says "give me a child until he is 7 and he will be mine for life" or something like that. Therefore your husband is and always was a catholic whether he knew it or not. (My own experience is that you do always carry some bit of catholicism with you, it doesn't just go away because you have intellectually rejected it. In my case, the most obvious bit of catholicism I am still stuck with is 'catholic guilt' - dh is always saying "that's your catholic guilt coming out"!)

The church also bids you to accept God's Will - he knows what is best. If he wants your kids to go to the catholic school then your husband's ploy will work. God may also decide to welcome your dh back into the church and turn this superficial return into a real one. So be prepared for that!

you are deluded . It won't work.

yes, wise words from barnstaple.

Would you be happy to have the parish priest coming into school regularly, taking assemblies, celebrating Mass on holy days etc? Would you like to see your dc taking part in class assemblies, writing bidding prayers, seeing your DCs friends all preparing for confirmation? Is it healthy if the children get a totally different message at home?

I don't know how most RC secondary schools deal with homosexuality. I know that at my DCs' RC primary school a motto that is stuck on all the cloakrooms is "everyone is different and everyone is special" which I love, and is how I think many schools (RC or otherwise) actively encourage children to view the world.

If I were you, I would be happier if he was "cynically faking a faith for the express purpose of duping a school", rather than rekindling his Catholicism.

I went to Roman Catholic schools myself. I hated the narrowness, the stifling of debate and the hypocrisy.

And I still think it is shocking that in a state school, in the 1980's, in a major British city, I could reach the age of 17 without meeting a single English child - they weren't Catholic so they didn't get in.

If you think it is the best thing for your children and you can do it, I would have no compunction about duping them. After all, they have no compunction about taking your taxes.

But I think the other posters are right - you are going to find it an uphill struggle. They've realised how popular they are and they've raised the bar. Do a bit of snooping and good luck.

I have only read the op , and I have to say that I would do whatever it takes to get my children in to the best school for them !

Think about explaining this duplicity and hypocracy to your adult children.

"So, all this crap you taught me all through my childhood, you mean you didn't believe any of it?"

"So, when you agreed with my teachers when they said that sex before marriage and contraception was a sin, homosexuals go to hell and scientific research on a cluster of 4 human cells that might cure Parkinson's disease was tantamount to murder, you didn't believe any of that either?"

"And you sent me all these mixed messages for my own good?"

I don't think deception is a good basis on which to build a family.

"hypocracy"

Did someone mention nuns?

Although my schools were run by them, I think you'll find they're pretty thin on the ground these days. They are at dds school anyway - and that school is next to a home of rest for nuns.

I am an active member of our parish and would like to assure the op that I have never had to do any sewing or cleaning, that is all done by a select group of affectionatly known as the blue rinse brigade ladies who would fall to the floor if anyone tried to muscle in on that .
I have however done lots of other things childrens groups,fairs ect.
On our application for senior school our priest was asked for the actual date of baptism and first holy communion some schools are now insisting that they have been taken at more or less the correct time,eg within 6/12 months of birth and about 7 years.

Sorry I am new to mumsnet and actually going through ths dilema at the moment so I hope this helps but I have done some relief teaching in Catholic schools (admittedly a few years ago)and I would not be too worried about creationist teachings etc. I never encountered it infact other than a weekly religion class and the odd mass they are very similar to standard schools. I actually found them far more open minded and tolerant than my preconceived stereotyped expectations.
I fakely smile at nursery teachers, daughter's friends and parents and the interest I feign for so many things in order to support my daughter has amazed even me. As parents it is what we do...if your hubby (sorry need to learn the abbreviations!!!)is keen let him do it. The fact you are feeling a bit guilty is in my experience a very good Catholic trait anyway!
The education system really concerns me and is not always fair - you have to do whatever you can to get the best/most suitable for your children.

if her son has medical needs, it is quite possible that the LEA will pay for a taxi to ferry him to and from school. More than one boy in our catholic secondary has this arrangement. One comes from about 5 miles away (from o/s the LEA) and another from about 3. They had many other schools to choose from but their parents chose this secondary.

The imagery of how catholics are portrayed is really alien to me on these threads many times so i stay away from them. They imply some deeply held prejudice ignorance that many of these posters have no clue they are revealing.

well said CilC. I have also found Catholic schools more tolerant than none Catholic ones. I am currently teaching at a Catholic school in the UK but have had teaching experience in 3 state secondaries prior to my current post. I know which one I prefer to teach in and which one I would prefer to send my dd to. And no, it is not just down to academic standards either. It is also down to the pastoral care and the focus on developing the emotional and social sides of the children.

My dd's go to a Catholic convent school now, and, whilst I'm not saying that people haven't had appalling experiences in the past, our experiences just do not match those or the image of Catholic schooling which some people have.

I personally don't worry about indoctrination. Maybe I should - perhaps I'll suffer 40 years hence when dd1 is trying to persuade me to make death bed confession for the sake of my mortal soul, while I grind out "the Red Flag" under my breath. I'll take that chance

I'm Irish, was brought up catholic as most of us were but finally decided at 17 that I didn't believe in it so only go to Mass on "special occasions" now!
To clarify on Creationism, the only Catholic that I know who believes in Creationism is MIL and she is totally barking! We were taught evolution as part of our science curriculum and the idea of creationism wasn't even mentioned once in science class. Or any other class, now that you mention it. Even in religious education which was one class a week, We were taught that the book of Genesis was basically a metaphor and not to be taken literally.
Oh, and if you can find a nun or a "brother" these days, let me know! They are few and far between, the Catholic church in Ireland is having a huge crisis as there are virtually no "vocations" amongst the younger people. I am 39 and not one girl in my class of 90 in secondary school became a nun, in fact no-one in my entire acquaintance has ever entered a religious order. I'm sure it's no different in the UK. Even at that, most of the nuns who taught us were fine with one or two exceptions but I do think the exceptions tend to stick in your mind! The same is probably true of most teachers, the most evil teacher I ever had wasn't a nun!

And I think that even if you are worried about what they are being taught, bear in mind that it is by and large what you teach them at home that they will believe. Even my friends who still go to Mass on a weekly basis use contraception, you don't see many Catholic families nowadays with more than 2 children and they are not abstaining from sex! If you teach them that homosexuality is fine then that is what they will believe and I think it's unlikely that the subject would come up in primary school anyway.

As to Catholic guilt, I've been lapsed for many years and not felt one shred of guilt!

I wouldnt have thought you'd stand much chance tbh of getting in. If it is an oversubscribed school then you'd have to have been going to church every week for years (not just 2), your children should have gone to a catholic primary and if this wasnt possible should have attended saturday classes for children not at catholic schools, they should have been baptised soon after birth, gone through the holy communion thing (means attending a series of classes leading up to the ceremony), preferably be altar servers, as parents at least one of you should have been helping out in the church for several years e.g. childrens liturgy (which of course your own children would have been going to), cleaning the church, helping out at fetes, what did you also do to help out in your catholic primary?

You will also need to be 'interviewed' by the parish priest who knows you best where your own schooling and why you want a catholic education for your children will be discussed.

If you dont do all the above and the school is oversubscribed you will be at the bottom of the list.

The lea can arrange and pay for a taxi for your child with sen to go to school too.

you have a greater chance of geting in if you become pally with the priest - IE going to lsons to get yourkids baptised. and going to lessons to get confirmed. be best buddies witht hepriest and you will have a better chance

but dont bitch aout caholacism when they do.

yo biggest fear shouldn't the churches view on homosexuality, but rather te level of sex ed they are given and people telling them that condoms are pants and abstinence is better - savie it til marriage and all tht shite.

bsides if your kids love and respect you - you could tell them the sky was green and your kids would believe you - not the school

My dcs go to Catholic schools...primary and secondary. Both were over subscribed but I didn't do any of the things hercules mentions. We are not even Catholic but were still sucessful in getting a place. You can't make generalisations about different schools which is why I suggested the op obtained copies of her particular school's admissions criteria and how many children were admitted in each catagory to give a better idea what it would take to get in. Just being a baptised Catholic would pretty well guarantee a place at our local Catholic high school. Not the case at other schools I know which is why you need to do your research.

My ds has now left secondary and is at sixth form but never in his whole time at high school did anyone tell him condoms were pants or advocate the merits of abstinance or tell him to save it till marriage. He recieved very good sex education which was backed up by further info from dp and I at home.

I think you are worrying too much. If dh is happy to return to his Catholicism and you are both happy for the children to be brought up in it then go for it. I've met plenty of people who consider themselves Catholics but who are pretty lax about going to church every Sunday, and who don't necessarily agree with every word that comes out of the Vatican. I would try to find out a bit about the school's ethos first though and make sure you really are happy with it.

And by the way, the fact that you feel "confused and guilty" makes me think you will fit right in with the Catholic church (I mean that in a good way).

I don't know. I feel a lack of guilt. I'd have nothing to say at confession.

Do you ever have to make it up because, frankly, you're feeling pretty sorted and guilt-free?

You are making the whole thing up.

God no, spidermama. I'm not even a practising Catholic and I've thought of at least 20 things to feel guilty about already this morning.

Just thought I'd offer up this warning little anecdote, for what it is worth.

My db and his partner were both open non-believers, so had no intention of having their children baptised into the local Protestant state church. However, my niece, when she was about 5, decided differently and insisted on being christened together with her baby sister. Her parents tried to put her off, but she claimed that she genuinely believed and that this was what she wanted so in the end they gave in.

Vicar comes round for the preliminary talk. The coffee has barely been poured when niece pipes up with:
'But we don't believe in God, do we, Mummy?'

Be prepared to either have to lie about your faith to your children, or have them relay the truth to the school priest.

This thread supports my firmly held belief that all faith schools should be abolished

I'd be wary about having the children raised catholic. Just as I would be wary about having them raised muslim. There's lots of crazy stuff in those religious packets ...

I don't think guilt is necessarily a bad thing. It's very useful for recognising whether you've done wrong (an internal AIBU if you will).

Catholic guilt can get a little out of hand, but I think a child's moral compass comes almost entirely from what their parents teach them from 0-5. The effect of what they get from school is quite small by comparison.

it is a really messed up system, if entrance to a secondary school can depend on how much domestic labour you have personally done for the local priest
I mean, talk about feudalism
talk about a power trip
I understand that the church needs to be cleaned, but really....

Well quite. Is it time for another rant about admissions criteria?

As I have already said there will always be this dilemma with faith and non faith schools for parents as long as the faith schools persistantly out perform the rest. I would never condemn a parent for wanting the best education for their children and, certainly where I live, that is a faith school. The compromise of a Catholic ethos in the school to access a better education was never that great a one for me. The impact of attending a Catholic school was relatively minor for my dcs and in the most part a good thing actually. I would have felt more guilty if I had had strong convictions about not wanting my children to attend a faith school and allowed this to affect the standard of education they achieved because I sent them to a lower achieving non faith school. Where I live all the non faith state schools are out performed by the faith schools at secondary level.

"it is a really messed up system, if entrance to a secondary school can depend on how much domestic labour you have personally done for the local priest"

harpsi, this is the sort of misleading things i regularly find on these types of threads which is why I don't often visit them.

Imagine, of my school of 1200, there are about say for agrument's sake, 900 catholics here. Surely the churches woudl be overrun with serfs if they were all there cleaning and doing bake sales.

as it is our church has had to reduce its cleaning to every other week as it doesn't have enough volunteers to do it more regularly.

DH and I are catholic, our kids went/go to a catholic primary. We do not go to church very often (3 or 4 times a year) and dd had no problem getting in to a Catholic Comp, mind you she also got into 3 Grammar Schools (1 mixed, 2 single sex) as well. She went to a Mixed Grammar in the end. We are in the South East.

IorekByrn I love the idea of an internal AIBU. That's such a great description.