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I satarted a new on too! Wondering if when the anthroposophist thebee/sue -who had sites called waldorf for america or something, threatened to punch someone on a wikipedia thread, if it was an astral punch or a physical one?
It's obvious to parents when they attend the advent spiral ritual at Waldorf schools that it is religious. What is not obvious is that it is not just some Christian ritual; it's outright Anthroposophical occultism. The double spiral represents the astrological sign of Cancer. Supposedly, the children walking to the center and back to the outer edge represents the end of the Atlantean era and the beginning of the Aryan era.
It's frustrating to look back and realize that we were paying for our children to have a good, well-rounded education and instead they were being used as puppets in an absurd cult fantasy.
Yes, there's a difference between parents posting anonymously to protect their children and a cult member pretending to be a woman so that he can promote seemingly independent Web sites that are, in fact, his own.
I didn't post in public forums for a couple of years after our Waldorf disaster. When a teacher guilty of inappropriate sexual behavior touched our child inappropriately and I reported it, the offending teacher was defended by the school and damaging rumors were spread about my child. Even in a major metropolitan area like the one where we live, the risk of malicious slander following our child was present in our minds. For example, my daughter planned to attend community college for two years before transferring to a regular college. One of the parents at the Waldorf school was the Dean of Admissions at one of our local community colleges. I waited until my child was out of that danger zone before I began posting. There are many reasons parents feel the need to protect their children post-Waldorf. This is just one example.
Did you guys ever think about setting up antiSteinernet? You do rather like chatting about it. I read, in its entirety, your last thread, and I'm none the wiser...
PeteK- at the Steiner school my kids attended for three years or so, there were numerous occasions where the children told me that two large men dragged children from the class, because they had been sent to stand outside and refused to leave their chair, one boy was pulled across the room by a very strong man, with his arm in a lock around the child's neck. These are things repeated to us by our kids and their friends. The other punisnments were being made to stand for hours outside the class, sometimes day after day as far as I can see. The anthro parents were as bad, a strange balance between over indulgence and "freedom", lack of any boundaries, and punishments like being put in the larder on bread and water, and washing out mouths with soap. Oh yes- and many parents smacked, hit even quite old kids- 12-13 yrs. All recent- we took our kids out lasy year.
There was inappropriate behavior by numerous teachers at our former Waldorf school. Another bizarre thing happened on the same camping trip during which the male teacher inappropriately touched my daughter and a couple of other girls and physically hurt another girl who was afraid to cross a stream. Because the students were on land belonging to Native Americans, it was considered sacred. Everyone had to do their business in the woods but had to carry their soiled toilet paper and feminine hygiene products back to the garbage container at the camp. (I imagine that could have been quite embarrassing for 15-year-old girls with a whole lot of boys present.)
At one point, someone found some of these items strewn around in the woods. Supposedly, at least one of the three teachers (two women and the misbehaving man) went ballistic. Along with exclamations of horror over the defiling of the land, threats of expulsion and ridiculous claims that DNA testing would be done, demands were made for the culprit or culprits to step forward. Not surprisingly, no one did.
Later, however, two girls went to the teachers and named two other girls they claimed had done it. One of the tattletales was a teacher's pet who had a reputation for being a girl who made up stories about other children doing bad things; the other was a girl who was probably upset because one of the accused was her close friend but was spending a lot of time with a new friend.
In any case, in spite of the denials by the accused girls, the teachers took the tattletales' word for it and made the accused girls clean up some of the soiled items without using universal precautions--the standard precautions of wearing protective items such as latex gloves when coming into contact with other people's bodily fluids. As anyone with an iota of common sense knows, contact with other people's bodily fluids exposes one to the risk of infection with a variety of diseases, some deadly. Everyone who supervises groups of minor children on camping trips is supposed to know universal precautions and they are a part of standard first aid training that they are supposed to have taken.
The teachers brought the feminine products, stained with menstrual blood, back to school for their investigation. They laid them out on a desk in the classroom. During recess, the girls who had been menstruating during the camping trip had to come in to look at them and say whether or not they were theirs. (Luckily for our daughter, she had not had her period during the trip.)
The mother of one of the accused girls told me about a meeting she had afterwards with the two female teachers. They were still accusing her daughter of having defiled the Native American land. The mother told me she caught one of the teachers in a lie about the color of the displayed sanitary pads and the color of the brand that her daughter used.
One of the things that struck me about this incident, aside from what I think about the psychological dysfunction of teachers who lay soiled feminine products on a desk in a classroom, was the lack of balance between the reverence shown by the teachers toward a patch of earth and twigs and leaves, and the vitriol directed at children in their care.
GOOD GRIEF Margaret- This is unbelieveable. And it just couldn't have happened in any other school really. The disproportianate balance is exactly right. And several teachers all feeling this was the right way to behave! You might of hoped at least one would have had a sense of reality about this. The brainwashing effect of a cult I suppose.
"Zooey, good grief, somebody attacked you on the bus? Hope you're okay."
Nothing serious, just an aggressive thug who apparently felt he had the right to push people around. First he tried to shove me off the pavement, then he shoved some other people when they tried to get on the bus, and I cut in front of him in the entrance of the bus, and hit him back. He shoved me away. I stopped where he had sat down and told him I though he should apologize for his tuggish behaviour.
Surprisingly (or not ) he did not agree. He was a big baby, really.
That's just entirely disgusting. First the whole ordeal with picking the stuff up without safety precautions and the humilitation and all - but bringing it back into the school and putting it on display on a table?!?! To find the culprit!? How yucky. And you would think that whoever the guilty person-s was/were, they had been punished enough already, psychologically at least.
Well, no, but the other ladies he pushed around were pretty old, so I would have expected them to step aside and think of their own safety. And since the busdriver was present, he would have called the police, if needed (I hope). A girl who stepped on the bus after me, said the busdriver had told her he knew that man from before. He was a regular trouble, that is.
"Supposedly, the children walking to the center and back to the outer edge represents the end of the Atlantean era and the beginning of the Aryan era"
Perhaps we should try and explain why these Atlantean and Aryan eras are so significant to Steiner and anthroposophists?
Steiner believed the earth moved through eras and epochs, and that the anthroposophists have sacred tasks and goals during these- he said
"So you see, the Spiritual Movement has a quite definite goal, namely, to mould future humanity in advance. So have we now the task of working towards the great moment in the Sixth Age, when humanity will undertake a great spiritual ascent. "
""The aim of the Sixth epoch of humanity will be to popularise occult truth in the widest circles; that is the mission of that epoch"
Steiner writes "Earthly events are determined by what occurs in spiritual realms. Take the sign of Cancer, for example. Its true significance is not always known, but this sign, which consists of two intertwining spirals, when rightly understood points to the dawn of a new age. Whenever an important event occurs in the world, whenever one stage of evolution is superseded by another thereby bringing something new into the world, two such spiral movements intertwine. One spiral of the sign of Cancer indicates the end of the Atlantean culture; the other, the beginning of the Aryan culture. Our ancestors thus perceived in the heavens the outward sign for the rise of the new Aryan culture. "
"Advanced human brothers are the leaders of the spiritual movement. They were already present at the beginning of the post-Atlantean age when the great cosmic festivals were established. Today, as the great teachers of mankind, they again reveal such truths to us."
The spiral points to the dawn of a new age- the new aryan era, so on the darkest day of the year , the children walk this spiral which symbolises reincarnation ,and light a candle which they place within it. It is an anthroposophical occult ritual.
Margaret, that's so shocking it's hard to say anything. Those people are sadists who should never, ever work with children. The damage to teenage girls from such treatment might never be undone. When those girls are very old women, this will be a trauma they have not forgotten.
I'm very glad at least your daughter wasn't singled out, but find it hard to even think about the feelings of the other girls.
That particular school . . . critics are often accused of wanting to shut Waldorf down completely, put them out of business etc., which in general is not true - we mainly ask that they provide full, free information about anthroposophy before parents enroll their children, re-examine outdated and damaging practices like discriminating against left-handed children, and improve the academics.
But the stories coming from this particular school are so consistently sickening that I do think the world would be a better place if this school shut its doors for good. A few long-timers there basically belong in jail IMO.
BTW, some of his teachers Margaret is talking about are still there. I agree with Diana that criminal lines have been crossed many times at that school.
We were talking about the Advent spiral, here are some pictures to give you the idea if you're not familiar. They're really lovely - the point is whether they are religious ceremonies.
You won't easily find pictures with kids in them, performing the actual ceremony, because the schools usually won't allow photography during school events.
Oh cod? hey- you spelt that right- are you ok? Are you going to sleep? Why don't you wake up and join in? Or start another thread abput thease threads for us? Go on
Oh! Duh. Thanks for fixing them Northern. The instructions are right there on the page. I always wondered how people get them to say something other than the actual address, now I know.
I don't personally find them creepy, I think they're beautiful. The spooky/creepy, to me, comes from the fact that these people feel some odd need to lie and hide when asked about the meaning, to the point of even denying that they're holding a religious ceremony. What on earth could it be if it's not a religious ceremony?
And spooky/creepy comes in from making it tense and silent and high-stress performance anxiety, at least that's how it was at our school - the kids - or even the parents - would talk or sing, or start crying, or a fight would break out, and the angry Waldorf teachers would act like heinous crimes had been committed and nobody would have any fun. Out in the parking lot afterwards there would be lots of kids melting down from the anxiety and fear, and parents saying, What was THAT all about?
The toy ones seem pretty funny to me. Our teachers would have thought those were not acceptable, it would take away the mystery or reverence if the kids could go home and play with it. Kids would right away have their Smurfs or their Barbie dolls walking the advent spiral, or Thomas the Tank Engine, or take it apart and the boys would start using the candles as guns or something - ruining it from the anthroposophical POV.
Teachers and school staff have responsibilities that are more extensive than simply not committing crimes. Of course, they should be reported to the police if they break the law, but that's really not all there is to it.
I think that, whether it was illegal or not, that teacher scarred these girls for life. That's a horrible thing to do to someone of that age in particular.
If anthroposophy had anything to offer the educational system, perhaps they could offer some perspective on the handling of inappropriate, emotionally blind teachers.
While the Waldorf schools and Kindergarten world wide have many things in common, they all also vary depending on the local cultural and social situation.
No, they aren't. They are the same everywhere. That's because they operate guided by Rudolf Steiner.
The fact that they are the same everywhere makes the sharing of experiences so interesting for us critics. It doesn't matter where in the world we are - our experiences are frighteningly similar.
And I think we should also warn against taking thebee's wikipedia links for information on waldorf. It's useless.
Thebee- you know it's the opposite of what you are saying- Zooey is right, the schools are all the same, the currriculum is the same, the guru who is fanatically followed down to every last detail is the same, the anthroposophy is the same. The only variation is the degree of lunacy of the staff.
What experience do you have thebee of the schools?
You haven't answered that yet?
You have no experience as a parent.
Were you /are you a teacher?
Did you do the tranining for Steiner waldorf? What gives you the expertise to have websites about Steiner waldorf education in particular?
Diana I love the description of your school's advent spiral. I love the barbie's and smurfs walking it
My memeories were of it being tense and fraught. it was always on Sundays, and my hus as an atheist, wouldn't go. At first, I felt we had to, show willing, but even before I knew it's full conotations, and just thought it was a welcoming of the winter solstice sort of festival, it gave me a feeling of being creeped out. The main players at the school got in a real state and frenzy about it, more than anything I'd seen. When I decided we wouldn't participate after the second one, I was met with lokks of absolute horror and amazement- they simply couldn't believe it.
It's true that the degree of lunacy of the staff varies, but I think there's pattern that makes it less variable then you'd think. It's simple. The degree of lunacy corresponds to the degree of anthroposophy manifested within the teacher's soul. A positive relationship.
"The degree of lunacy corresponds to the degree of anthroposophy manifested within the teacher's soul. A positive relationship."
I also think it is a fairly direct, 1:1 relationship. Anthroposophy is what is wrong with Waldorf schools. The more committed the teacher is to anthroposophy, the more likely she/he is, in direct proportion, to behave oddly, lack teaching skills, have trouble relating to children or sometimes simply have poor intepersonal skills in general.
This is not to say an anthroposophist cannot be a good teacher, or that none of the anthroposophists teaching are good teachers. It's a question of commitment - how seriously they take their anthroposophy. If they have other training or experience and are willing to draw on it, they may be good teachers. If they are committed to anthroposophy and absorbed in anthroposophy, it is unlikely.
"If criminal lines have been crossed and this can be substantiated in a way required for a lawsuit, a lawsuit should be implemented."
Lawsuits at this school are a regular occurrence... sometimes multiple in a year. Most settle out of court. A lawsuit would be appropriate for seeking damages in civil crimes. They would not be appropriate for criminal behavior which is what I am talking about. In most cases, parents who have been brainwashed and/or threatened by the school stop short of launching a criminal investigation that would impact their child so negatively.
And many of us have seen Waldorf's propensity to lie, collectively if necessary, to advance their own needs. What happens - in the worst (for Waldorf) case scenario, is that the teacher is moved from one Waldorf school to another. The parents, satisfied that some action has been taken, are usually love-bombed into staying at the school... or leave the school quietly.
"the name "Waldorf" ... is trademarked by... guess who? The Anthroposophical Society"
According to Why Waldorf Works, the Association of Waldorf Schools of North America is the holder of trademark rights for the use of the names "Waldorf" and "Steiner" in the U.S. (Rudolf Steiner School is the name of the Waldorf school in N.Y.) as also of a number of Waldorf schools in the U.K.
OMG - all this cult stuff makes such depressing reading. We have been considering Steiner for our children for the future (not yet as we can't afford it). Why? - well really because I find the state secondary system quite worrying. I am a teacher myself and am dismayed at the constant testing and more than that - the 'teaching to the test' that inevitably accompanies it.
We are also in a grammar school area - the grammar schools cream off the children with better ability/support/behaviour etc. and the rest go to large rough comprehensives with shockingly low levels of attainment. We don't want this for our children and really thought that Steiner could be an option for us. This was after a very pleasant visit to the local Steiner school where I was impressed by the confidence and articulate nature of the children.
All this truly horrible stuff about racism, discrimination towards the disabled and pseudo religious overtones is seriously putting us off.
Is it just a few isolated problems with one or two members of staff in a couple of the establishments (just like the bad eggs you get in the state system) or can it be true that the whole movement is disguising its true nature in a sinister way?
For some info on the smear and myths about Waldorf education cultivated and promoted by most of the posters here in this thread, see here. This page describes the small fringe anti-Waldorf hate type of group where they get what they write beyond describing purely personal experiences. They all support the group and pursue a diatribe against Waldorf education here at MN since some time.
For another descriptions of the Top Ten+ myths about Waldorf education cultivated since long by the group, see here.
Is anthroposophy a "cult"? See the Wikipedia article on anthroposophy. After an arbitration a year ago, that banned PeteK (who posts in this thread) indefinitely from any more editing of any Waldorf related article at the site, editors of the articles are only allowed to use reliable sources on possible controversial issues.
The supporters of the fringe group don't like that.
And there you are again, Bee, with your web sites.
Those web sites don't answer the thoughts missingthehills expressed.
It can't be a problem of one individual teacher or school, because, as Pete said a few posts ago, it's about anthroposophy. You don't get waldorf without anthroposophy. And anthroposophy happens to be a religious belief systems that has incorporated a lot of stuff that isn't nice.
missing the hills... don't you think these long, long single argument ranty threads dull the point they're trying to make?
I'm training as an SW Kindergarten teacher and I've not been brainwashed. I don't get a sense that there's a cult hidden behind the schooling system. Mind you, I'm in England - and we're rather less inclined to becoming hysterical about religious or semi religious theorising than the Americans.
If you want to experience what a Steiner school is like - go to one and see for yourself - talk to teachers/parents/pupils
I have lovely sane friends who's 'normal' teenage boys both attend a Steiner school... they're in no way scarred by their experiences and the mild learning difficulties of the eldest are balanced by the level of artistry he reaches in his work and by his well developed social skills.
If you're really interested in Steiner Education, it's worth looking futher than this (and other MN Steiner Waldorf threads) to get a balanced perspective.
Oh, and I meant to add that Steiner schools get very, very good Ofsted reports and the Hereford school has gained Academy status and will be state funded in the near future (when the new buildings are complete)
"Is it just a few isolated problems with one or two members of staff in a couple of the establishments (just like the bad eggs you get in the state system) or can it be true that the whole movement is disguising its true nature in a sinister way?"
No - it is a world-wide problem that has plagued Waldorf since its inception.
"If you want to experience what a Steiner school is like - go to one and see for yourself - talk to teachers/parents/pupils "
Yeah, that's what ALL the critics of Waldorf did too. Problem is - you don't get anything resembling the truth when you go to a Steiner school and talk to the Steiner people. And really, if you go to a Steiner school and talk to teachers/parents/pupils who are satisfied with the school - how is that giving any better of a picture of Waldorf than talking with critics of Waldorf who are former teachers/parents/pupils? To get a balanced picture, one needs to talk to BOTH.
The following is dishonest. The writer apparently doesn't know how to write honestly.
"This page describes . . ." instead of "On my web site I describe . . ."
"For another descriptions . . . see here." Instead of "Another description I WROTE can be found here."
"Is anthroposophy a "cult"? See the Wikipedia article on anthroposophy." instead of "See the wikipedia article that my friends and I wrote, and battled to control round the clock for several months."
"Is anthroposophy a "cult"? See the Wikipedia article on anthroposophy."
Yeah, wait a minute, that one ought to read, "See the wikipedia article where I threatened to punch one critic who disagreed with me in writing that article."
"missing the hills... don't you think these long, long single argument ranty threads dull the point they're trying to make?"
No. (I'm not wabbit, but too bad.)
"I'm training as an SW Kindergarten teacher"
Oh, and you don't suppose that influences your views a bit?
"If you want to experience what a Steiner school is like - go to one and see for yourself - talk to teachers/parents/pupils "
That's good advice, except that you have to demand to see an ordinary class in session on an ordinary morning, a class of YOUR choosing not something prearranged, and not let yourself be fobbed off by invitations to festivals or other specially staged events.
Hi Wabbit, From your perspective of an in-training WKG teacher, may I ask you to comment on www.easeonline.org/Education.htm Anything there you reckon prospective parents needn't know? Davy
missing- don't rely on the teachers or administrators at Steiner school to give you any clear picture. Anthroposophy is the guiding principal for the schools, and they don't mention it. They are actually taught in their training not to mention it- there was a thread a while back where two Steiner teachers said that they were told to emphasise the natural creative stuff and not talk about the anthroposophy.
Wabbit- Steiner schools are bonkers- their philosophy is bonkers. It's just covered in rainbow silks and wooden gnomes.
Here is a Steiner trained teacher on the subject-
"Steiner schools exist to guide the souls of children towards a time when these supernatural beings will be made manifest and incarnate in the 20th century. With right training, children can go on to develop supernatural powers such as clairvoyancy or being able to talk to the spirit world.
Children learn eurythymy, which is like dance, it is intended to teach the proper stances to manifest spiritual states of being, calling upon influences from our past lives and preparing the basis for our future lives.
There is a real belief is angels, archangels and other beings such as spirits, goblins etc... and these are often referred to as fact in schools.
There is a real disdain for science, facts and 'materialistic' (critical) thinking. Steiner believed that asking for proof and reason is a sad symptom of the materialistic world.
Teachers are trained to direct kids' attention away from the “apparent world” to the many concealed “levels of truth” in order to empower the human soul."
I think most people who have come on these threads would agree which is bonkers... don't you?
wabbit- you'll discover this if you ever go on in your training to class teacher . This particular Steiner trained teacher was at Emerson College I believe.
Yes- the wikepedia article is biased, thebee became so insensed about other points of Steiner's belief he probably wanted hidden he threatened to punch someone!
That's the reason I at one point told him that I for a short second had considered punching him somewhere, if we met in person at some time. He then told me that he thought I probably would have to change my underwear if I saw him in person.
He was blocked a number of times for personal attacks and edit warring and warned a number of times by different admins for different reasons, until he one year ago was finally banned indefinitely from editing any Waldorf-related article at Wikipedia for his behaviour.
An introduction to the WC-group, whose site Zooey links to, is found here. (I did not write that page.)
For some comments on the specific page that Zooey links to, see here. (I wrote parts of that page.)
For a summarizingdescription of the group, that Zooey represents here at MN as member of its board, see here. (I wrote most of that page.) What I have written is based on ten years of experience of the group.
"Myth 5" comments on the two "quotes" at the bottom of the page that Zooey links to.
The myth constitutes the main tool of the group in its anti-Waldorf demagoguery since long. Critizising an education for not being secular humanist enough probably does not enrage people enough, and especially people of Jewish origin and/or faith targeted by the myth, to the extent wanted by the group, to bait them into supporting the group in its anti-Waldorf diatribes.
For a description of the related "Anthroposophical world conspiracy" myth ..., also cultivated for a time by the group, as part of the paranoia and aversion it works at cultivating towards Waldorf education, see here.
There's a great introduction to PLANS on the web site's main page. Debra Snell, president of Plans, writes:
"[...]Together, we have performed exhaustive research on Waldorf schools and Anthroposophy, the esoteric, occult religion that both guides and inspires Waldorf teachers. PLANS affirms the right of all religious groups to practice and to teach their beliefs. But we expect those groups -- including Anthroposophy -- to tell the truth about their missionary efforts.
My personal experience with Waldorf was very confusing. Instead of the progressive and liberal alternative school I was led to expect by the school's promotional materials and staff, I discovered a rigid, authoritarian environment that seemed to be rooted in a medieval dogma that I did not understand. When, in an effort to make sense of things, I asked questions about this, I found Waldorf teachers to be strangely defensive.
I was stunned to arrive at the conclusion that the education of children -- at least as I use the term "education" -- did not seem to be the school's most important focus and objective. [...]
My sincere hope is that the information contained in this Web site will help other families avoid a Waldorf disaster. I strongly believe parents have the right to make fully informed decisions about their children's education. Until Waldorf promoters start being honest, PLANS will be here."
Much of what Dan Dugan writes at the old list you quote, and have quoted before here at MN, is rubbish. I haven't had time to set up a commenting page on that yet. Will see when I find the time.
As for the New Zeeland page you link to, it seems to be a Christian site. As one can note, it describes Atheism as a "False Religion", and writes on this:
"Yes, atheism can be considered a religion, since the believe that there is no God is a religious view that actually takes greater faith than the belief that God does exist. Atheism is also listed in the Glossary.
Read Randy Bailey's story of abandoning atheism to accept Jesus Christ as his saviour. He writes: 'The greatest truth that I have learned since I have "come home" again, is that all of the arguments and debates in defense of an atheistic worldview exist for one sole purpose: justification of sin.'"
It also describes Applied Kinesiology as a "Dangerous cult" and cautions people against using acupuncture, describing it as a "New Age practice". It also rates "Abortion" as a "Danger" on its list of "NZ Cults & Religous Groups".
I was not a 60 yr old man pretenting to be a Mum to get on this site.
I am a Mum, protecting her identity for the sake of her young kids. You have no other reason to put xxxxx in front of my nickname that to bring personal power games into a discussion. You are sick. And the fact you said you are not trying to find out where i live , is also creepy.
I'll ask you again, are you stalking me around the net?
"For some comments on the specific page that Zooey links to, see here. (I wrote parts of that page.)"
LOL, looks like I got thebee to try honesty for about 5 minutes. Then in the very next post he slips back to "See these comments . . ." without acknowledging the source.
Essentially every source thebee links to here is his own contrivance, with rare exception.
Northern asks thebee why he has been putting her first name in front of her handle.
Mr. Nordwall, don't you care if her children are ostracized by their former friends, teachers, and schoolmates?
Does this not strike you as a different situation than your own, childless situation, where you only care to protect the reputation of a school, at the expense of actual, real-live children?
"39 Waldorf-years among his children collectively"
by which I mean, he has 3 children who have or will have spent 15 years apiece in a Waldorf school (grades 1-12 plus 3 years preschool/nursery) . . . so actually it's nearly 45 years. Between 'em they've spent nearly a half-century in Waldorf. The man knows whereof he speaks.
" THAT IS YOUR WEBSITE. That is what you need to acknowledge to be honest. We know you didn't write every word there personally, it's you and two lovely ladies Deborah Kahn and Linda Clemens, but IT'S YOUR WEB SITE and it's the web site of an organization that YOU ARE A FOUNDING MEMBER OF" That's so isn't it bee?
So why do you try to pretend it's got many other views than your own?
To make it look better than it is? To make out it's something other than just yours. It's all *your website*
Yeah- I hope Pete comes on and tells his personal story too. there are so many people with horror stories to tell about Steiner waldorf aren't there?
"Zooey, what you quote above is commented on in detail here. Maybe you missed that."
Eh, no, I've not missed your web sites. I've seen them too many times.
I still think Debra's right, and you're wrong. That's quite possible, you see.
Btw you're right that a christian web site doesn't bring the most neutral perspective. However, you can often count on cults to recognize other cults...
thebee you said "Anthroposophy is the reason there today exist some 1,000 Waldorf schools and some 1,600 Waldorf kindergarten world wide. Without anthroposophy and Rudolf Steiner there would exist no Waldorf schools."
Yup- anthroposophy, without it no schools, no biodynamic agriculture, no camphill communities, no anthroposohical medicine. It is insiduoous.
And are you told about this anthroposohy tho bee when you take your small and vulnerable children to the schools inorder to place your kids in their care?
No- because the teachers are trained to hide it.
Why?
Because the sole purpose of the education is to guide the children's souls to reincarnate towards a time when supernatural spiritual beings will manifest themselves. The education is suppose to lead towards the right training, to empower the children's souls, and help develop clairvoyant powers in order to communicate with the spirit world.
Teachers are trained to direct the children's attention away from the real apparent world towards concealed levels of truth.
Is this a good description of anthroposophy thebee?
This is a transcript of what a trainedSteiner teacher says, so it must be right.
With regard to events like the Advent Spiral, again, it's hard to know what you're NOT being told because they give you JUST enough information to satisfy the curiosity of a busy parent. For example, in my children's Steiner School we were told it was a festival to create a sense of quiet and reverence to mark the period of advent and prepare for Christmas.
It comes from the notion that, prior to the much hailed "change of teeth" in the approximately 7 year old, the child is really not "here" on earth at all - not yet fully "incarnated." According to anthroposophy, the child spends pretty much the first 7 years in this "incarnating" process, also sometimes referred to as "growing down" into his or her body.
The result of this is that much of first grade is a holding pattern - most of the kids aren't 7 yet, and have to be prevented from doing anything academic most of the year, doing things like drawing lines in the sandbox.
Read that again closely and if you have a sprinkling of anthroposophical knowledge, it reads interestingly:
"First Grade is a bridge between the kindergarten and the grades. With the second dentition, children have completed the formation of their physical bodies and are ready to begin to work with their minds. The mood of the classroom is no longer that of the kindergarten. The children have now arrived ready to take up the tasks of the first grade curriculum."
Let's parse this: "First Grade is a bridge between the kindergarten and the grades." In other words, this isn't going to be a real first grade, it's going to be a holding pattern.
"Children have completed the formation of their physical bodies" - say what? They have? Six or seven year olds have completed their physical bodies? In anthroposophy, incarnation proceeds in 7-year stages. The first stage, birth of the "physical body," one of the "four members" of the human in anthroposophy, is complete at age 7. Around age 7 is the birth of the "etheric body." That's what this peculiar notion means.
The children have now arrived . . ." this sounds quaint but they mean in literally. Parents may think their child has already been around for seven years, but no! The child does not really arrive SPIRITUALLY until age 7 in anthroposophy. "Arrive" is not a metaphor.
It's as if I were to basically copy Zooey's blog, set up another site with the same style and most of the same content, call it "the American Zooey" and then invite Zooey to be an "associate member." Well, first run and find at least one other American, so we could call it American. Well, these people aren't famed for clever real-world ideas.
) he did not agree. He was a big baby, really. 
