Mumsnet members get a 10% discount from Boden (including free returns and free delivery), The White Company, sweaty Betty, Luxury Family Hotels, JoJo Maman Bebe, Siblu, Blooming Marvellous, GLTC, Bump to 3 (the official online shop for Grobags) and more. Click here for more info Join mumsnet here.
I think you should invest in some self worth classes instead of holidays....
You cheat on your husband and are upset when he has the good sense to leave you, You shack up with a toyboy you know nothing about, you hand over money to him as did your mother that you will unlikely see again, and you spend your life running away from things with endless holidays. He liked you for you, no love he liked you cause you were a soft touch and handed over all your cash.
If I were you I would cut your self off from him totally sort out a divorce so your poor Ex husband can get on with his life, and look for the reason you have such low self worth
I am sorry but you are deluding yourself if you think you or your poor mother are ever going to see any of your money again, I think you have to cut your losses here (and that is some amount to lose).
Cut all ties with him before your children end up homeless because ha has blead you dry. Ok with out the money he owes you you might have to miss a few hoilday but hanging on to a dead beat like him will clean you out totally.
Hope you speak to the CAB person today and that you get some helpful advice. (I see you accidentally called him your "boyfiend" earlier - seems about right! )
Oh love you've been the victim of a vicious conman, it's not your fault. People like him are absolute predators, they can smell vulnerability and are extrememly manipulative. As others have said, try to get something (an email or a text) where he acknowledges that he owes the money, but once you've got that it will be best to cut off all contact. You might even need to involve the police at some point (every now and then stories surface of men like this who have conned dozens of people out of vast sums of money: they are always very persuasive) even if you don't get your money back, if there are sevearl complaints about him already for this type of thing he might end up going to prison (which he richly deserves).
I'm glad you have such good support with this and there's always MN
It sounds like you have done alot of things to make your bf happy over the years and he has not returned this - you have to do the right thing for you and your children not your bf on this occasion
that you have considered the possibility of having to downsize your house for him shows the level you have put into trusting him, but the fact that he is not even trying to pay anyone back does not suggest he has done the right thing for you or your family at all - yes your lucky that you could downsize should it come to that but its not the point really (and what would you do should you not have the equity? what would he do leave and move on to someone else?). He's suppposed to love, respect and care for you he doesn't seem to be treating you very fairly at all
I know you went into this with the best intentions for him and his business and he may have really tried to make a go of the business (i don't know the ins and outs of this) but he still doesn't seem to even be trying to pay his way in any respect whatsoever, i think you've given it all you can and he needs to start trying now - that is if you want him in you life
Late to this thread, but there are far too many warning signals here
1. Your boyfriend has two children, only one of whom he sees. (Two previous relationships resulting in children is a bit of a warning signal PLUS not seeing one of his children - surely only skunks don't see their children)
2. He lies
3. He steals
4. He is delusional (taking you away then expecting you to foot the bill)
5. He is bad at his own business
Realistically he is not going to change and you know that you need to get rid of him. You should cancel his holiday and I think you should take your mum on holiday as your treat. Just to make up to her in some way for her loss.
It sounds like you are sincerely regretting splitting up with your husband. The only thing I'd suggest is please don't rush back to him now. It's a time of emotional turmoil for you and it might not be fair to him for you to approach him until you're on a more even keel.
Bumble i really think you need to have a talk with him, tell him you are unhappy, why you are unhappy and what he is doing to make you feel this way - hopefully you will be able to either sort it out with him (but DON'T let him 'sweet talk' you, be strong) and if he can't see what he is doing then i think you need to get rid of him
But you need to be able to be open and honest with him about and he needs to be open and honest with you too, you need answers from him - take your time think about what you want to say to him and how you want to handle things maybe wait until you've spoken to CAB properly too so that your prepared for what could happen financially
You and your mum sound close so you'll be able to stick together and help each other - do you also have any close friends you can talk too?
Bumble, hold tight - you poor thing, none of this is your fault...and you can rescue yourself before any more damage is done, AND come out stronger and with more self-respect, so that you don't need to cry, or drink - and certainly so that you don't end up being sectioned like your poor Mum.
You have a hell of a lot to contend with.
Don't cry - you posted a simple 'AIBU' today - and have taken a really important step - calling CAB.
I sincerely hope that you are not doomed in any way at all - and can see no reason why you should be. Not for making painful mistakes, anyway. I'm the survivor of a painful mistake and didn't see the light until he had had two children with other women (at 4 month intervals) and racked up £800 on my credit card (which i had given him for extreme emergency use only when driving to collect his dd). But I found I couldn't get out of the situation until I changed the outlook (need) in me that had allowed it to reach the stage it had, and adjusted my whole vision of the thing.
It does seem as if you might have been feeling very hard on yourself after everything you had gone through, and just a bit more greatful for the attention of someone who liked you.
Really pleased that you and your Mum are supporting each other - at least she has first hand experience of how he works and can understand exactly how he has managed to do what he has done.
And you are right - much better to be someone who looks for the best in people. That doesn't mean you deserve to be taken advantage of, either, so don't let that hold you back from doing what you can to get your money back.
I like to give the best of me to everyone and I hope that they give the best of themselves back. Obviously not, where my boyfriend is concerned.
Am I afaid of walking away? In one sense, yes. I loved my husband, I cheated on him (I know, don't berate me for this, this is one price I will have to pay for the rest of my life and, believe me, I am paying for it (and I don't mean financially) and my husband, who I, unfortunately, still adore (that is why we are still not divorced ... another story there ...) ... my husband told me, at 36 years of age, with 3 children (then 9, 5 and 11 weeks) told me he will always love me (you can't help loving someone) but doesn't like me. He told me that I would never be hapy (how true is he there, 5 years on-am I happy? No.) and that I would never find someone to love me and accept me for who and what I am (selfish (not!), self-centred (not!.), etc. etc.
Perhaps looking back and seeing my (now) boyfriend taking an interest in me (before knowing my 'good' financial situation) I saw someone who 'liked' me for who and what I was.
Perhaps I am doomed NEVER to be happy.
My mum hates MY situation (now she knows it) and I hate HER situation (now I know it).
DO WE ALL SOMETIMES NOT MAKE MISTAKES? Okay, my mistake will cost me £10K and it will cost my mum £15K but, I hope that on my tombstone, it will say 'she tried her best' - to be a good mother, wife, friend, girlfriend.
I feel sad (but feel happy) I am now doing something about it.
Of course - no comments per se about Bumble going on hol...but, Sparkles - "tbh if i was with a twat like that i'd want to go away on holiday too!" well exactly!
Honestly, Bumble - I think you will need lots of support - and I'm sure you will get it fom MN....I will keep my distance, promise . good luck!
I don't think that whether or not Bumble goes on holiday is the issue, she likes it and clearly works hard to afford it for her and her family - holidays are a luxury and they are to escape your normal life whats wrong with that?! tbh if i was with a twat like that i'd want to go away on holiday too!
Although i do agree with Blu that maybe there are some issues you have that you can't face, what they are is clearly for you to decide
Get help from CAB but also post on the legal threads on here someone might be able to help you further and give you an idea of what will happen and what it will cost you
I hope you have enough support around you to help you deal with this as it doesn't sound like its going to be easy
btw what does his mum think of all this? have you spoken to her about it or his mates to find out if he has ever done this before?
I think you know deep down you are not going to get your money back and you should talk to your mum and prepare her too.
Do exactly as someone said earlier, you NEED a text message or an email or something acknowledging the debt, I'm also presuming you and your mum have proof from your bank accounts ?????
I think the maximum for small claims is £5000 so suing him is not going to be cheap. Even with a county court judgement against him he can easily manage to 'not afford' it (I have been here before with someone who screwed me over). If he's bankrupt or if he goes bankrupt then you will be very unlikely to get the money back.
I think at some point in the future you are going to have to try to come to terms with the fact that he smooth talked you for money and that it's gone
Bumble - I truly do not mean to berate you - or criticise you.
But I'm never sure how to think about advising someone how to get out of a difficult situation without looking at all the reasons the problem could have started.
He is a smooth-talking con-man - it isn't your fault he has behaved as he has, not at all. But in taking back control, it's worth looking at how it was lost. That's all. You are in a horrible situation - well, I wouldn't like to be in it - but it won't sort itself out by magic.
Batters - that was me (5 years ago). I didn't actually leave my husband, although I was thinking of it, he in the end left me (much to my upset!).
I did get with my boyfriend within about 6 months of my husband leaving home (9 months after he in effect 'left' me) - husband left me but stayed in the family home for 9 months.
I have known my boyfriend for about 20 years (he used to be my junior - only 3 years younger than me) and he came to my wedding!
it just seems quite shocking , written donw, that he has used your credit card behind your back, borrowed £45 000 with nothing to show for it, cannot afford to go on holiday or contribute to your family life.. yet can whisk you off to las vegas...
if that seems judgemental then i am sorry, but you have said yourself, he plays his cards close to his chest, yet knows your financial status intimately, and you have to have a drink before you ask him anything important!
do you see a future with him? have you ever challenged him about the money before?
I have holidays because I work hard and pay for them. My mum treats me and I treat her. I pay my way, pay my mortgage, bills, the kids have new clothes, spend quality time with me (when I am not working) - only work part time, 2 days in the office, 2 days at home.
Just spoke to CAB and someone will ring me to make an appointment to see them. A lovely lady and didn't berate me for getting into such a shitty life - understood completely, like some of you and NOT like some of you.
My boyfriend is a dreamer - I AM NOT!
Re. Vegas - I didn't know I was going until the day before - the children were with their dad, my boyfriend spoke to my boss and arranged for me to have the time off. When I found out, I needed to know where I was going so I could pack appropriate clothing - i.e. ski clothes for Austria, sun clothes for Australia.
Did I think my boyfriend could bring me an exciting life - NO!. I always paid my way (even when married), paid for holidays (my one vice), etc. I like being on my own, with my 3 children, playing cards, board games, playing on the Wii, etc. etc. but I also like lying on a sun bed reading a book enjoying my own company.
bumblelion - I remember your thread from, what, 5 years ago, when you finally left your husband. Mumsnetters were so, so happy for you and we all thought you were wonderfully brave.
IIRC you also went more or less straight from your husband to this man? Apologies if I have got it wrong, 5 years is a long time...
You haven't answered your own question "do I want to be with him?" in your post of 13 54. So, do you? Because if it's the thought of the money that's making you continue this relationship, well, you need to at least be clear on that before you can move forward.
PS If I am muddling you up with someone else I apologise, my memory isn't what it used to be.
how can he afford business class flights to the states? with your money? or the money he owes you? he must love being with you! this is madness.... how can you trust him?
Bumble - look - sorry if this is way too far over the boundary of wht you cnsider our (MN) business, but what is it that is going on in your life that needs constant hols in order for you to relax? Most people do not go on all these hols, unless they have so much money and so much time that they don't need to think twice. What is wring with some relaxation time at home? To those of us who work hard at work and parenting but have one or even two holidays a year, it might sound as if you are running away from something, looking fr enjoyable distraction and sticking your head in the sand about what is really going on.
Stay at home, sort out this mess, find a way to enjoy your own company in your own home - which you may well be able to do once you get rid of someone who is taking you for a ride.
And don't listen to him! The people who are the most persuasive are the ones who really believe what they are saying and he probably is totally self-deluding about how much he can earn/when he will make his fortune and pay it all back etc. Good luck with the CAB.
The one nice thing I gained from this money is that he took me to Las Vegas last year for 1 week (when my children were with their dad). Flew business class and had a wonderful time. I loved it. Want to go again ... but I had to pay for the hotel on departure and had to take spending money as he could not afford it.
Yes, I loved Las Vegas and want to go again, but only if I can afford it. Wanted to see Elton John/Celine Dion at Caesars Palace but it was roughly £250 a ticket and he could not pay for it and I could not justify spending that money!
i am really intrigued that you and your mum would lend anyone, partner or not, significant amounts of money, without discussing it with each other, or getting any sort of agreement, with the best will in the world, i think you were both a bit naive. if my DH asked my parents for £10 000, i would expect them to see cashflows, projections, business plans, etc.. rather than a blithe assurance that they would get the money back !
if my DH wanted me to raise £10 000 on our house, then the same would apply, and i would reserve the right to veto it if i felt it was a bad risk.
but you are not even married to or officially co-habiting with this man, he could just walk out of your lives, and leave you in the sh*t
take back the control, and get this leech out of your lives!
Sorry but I have one word for you,your bfs without a doubt a "Player!!"
I have no doubts, and he's probably got another gf, that has had the same thing happen to her, I would, dump him, request the money, probably not going to happen, seek legal advice, and if your mum isn't financially stable I would re mortgage to pay her back.
Get rid of him, he is a liability.
Sorry, that was more than one word, but he is a "Player"
Gosh, normally I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, but in this case that seems very hard.
The holiday is the simplest issue. There's absolutely no way he is going. If you want to cancel it, speak to the travel agent as soon as you can to check the terms of cancelation. Alternatively, is there anyone else you'd like to take instead of him? Changing a name on the booking will probably be a lot cheaper than cancelling it.
In terms of getting the money back, recovery of a loan in this situation is tricky, even with evidence. As Blu says, I suspect any written acknowledgement you can get that this was a loan rather than a gift will help your case including any e-mail or text messages. I'd also speak to CAB, legal aid and debt advisory services to see if they've got any further advice as to how to proceed from a civil law perspective.
Also, although I suggest this with caution, if you really wanted to put pressure on him you could consider whether a criminal case could be made against him for fraud. Although it's not a traditional case, if he has set out to intentionally defraud (e.g. he didn't use the money solely for the business but instead for personal use), there may be an answerable case. I imagine this would be a last resort but if, after getting legal advice on this, you think there is an answerable case you could use this as a lever against him.
I guess the main question in this is what state (if any) you want your relationship to be in. Any of these steps will damage it, and the latter two will probably kill it. Not that this is a bad thing, but you'd have to be sure you were prepared for that.
Bumble - yes, debt, but also the fact that he is using you as a route to your friends and family and conning them will very soon cause you to lose a lot of friends and the good relationship with your family. REally bad of him to have caused such an embarrassing situation over the fence.
I think you have to talk with your Mum - does she realise that she has been conned? How does she view you having a relationship with someone who has (effectively) stolen from her?
Let me explain - he conned her - he is very good with his mouth (but not in the oral sex sense) - he is very confident, very talkative but only says what he wants, not what I want to hear.
My mum lent him money because she honestly thought she would get it back (because he told her so) - she believed him.
Another story - my friend's boyfriend did my fencing for me. Because my boyfriend owed me money, he paid for the fencing (but really I paid for it as it was money he owed me). My friend's boyfriend got an outstanding bill and could not work out where it came from. After long negotiations, we (me and my friend) realised that it was my boyfriend's cheque which had bounced!!! I then paid for my fencing.
When I read this back, it brings home to me my feelings (if any) for him and what is it he brings to my life! Not much, except debt!
Blimey, Bumblelion - he has behaved very very badly. In fact he has conned you, and your Mum.
Start by not paying for the hol, then progress to seeing whast you can do to get repayment of the money.
I am no expert on any of this, but advice columns in newspapers usually start by finding out if you have any evidence at all that he owes you money, and that it was a loan.
Without making him suspicious, can you get anything in writing do you think?
An e mail or note - if you write 'hiya hun, don't mean to pressurise you, but now that you are starting your job could we have a little chgat about a manageable re-payment scheme for the £ks that you borrowed? It's causing me some hassle...and you know i'm a bit broke. Let's agree something, at least, then we can talk about the hol'.
If he acknowledges the letter at all it counts as evidence that there is a debt.
Then consult CAB or a lawyer or find out about small claims - then - sorry - you have to dump him. You need someone who respects you - not someone who treats your family like a ATM.
And if he's living with his mum (and you), pretty much all of his earnings is disposable income. Even if he was earning £7500 a year, he'd be taking home £580 per month. Yet he pays no bills, and likely no rent. Where is all of that going that he cant afford to pay any of you back or pay for a holiday?
Get rid. Tell him you dont want him back unless/until he commits to paying you back/contributing to the household. If he sods off, that's a bonus IMVHO.
FFS! BIn him immediately and take legal action against him. He is a THIEF. He has STOLEN from you and from your mother. He's probably got a long track record of doing the same thing to all his previous partners, as well.
so you and your mum have lent him 25 grand between you, he has another £20,000 debt and this is only the debt you know of!!! god knows how much else he has.
i would say that without having any kind of legal agreement in place that you have no hope in hell of ever getting the money back. as soon as he started his new job he should have began paying back the debt, as it stands he wont even tell you how much he gets paid
i think you should go to citizens advice and find out what the legal situation regarding the money he owes you is (or post in the money/finance section here as someone will know)
If it wasn't for the money he owes would you be with him?
Unfortunately, when I lent him the money (against my better judgement) and he then borrowed on my credit card without telling me, no-one knew of this (apart from me and him!).
He then went to my mum (behind my back) and she lent him, initially £5K, and then another £10K (she can afford it (well, not really, but you know what I mean) but I can't.
Unfortunately my mum did not know about what I had lent him as she knows I don't have that kind of money BUT I also didn't know that she lent him money.
Unfortunately, there is no written agreement about the money lent (so, in the laws eye, my (his) debt, is my debt!).
Being honest - do I want to be with him? I have been with him for 5 years but he doesn't live with me (officially) - i.e. he doesn't pay anything but seems to be more at my house than he is at his mum's!. Because of what he owes me and my mum, perhaps I am afraid of walking away, beacause that may mean I (and my mum) will never get our money.
I cannot afford to lose £10,000.
He has only had my teenager for 3 days while I was in Tenerife this year (he was at work and she spent most days/night at her friends) so he doesn't help me out that much so I can jaunt off on holiday (this was the first holiday that my eldest has not been with me and has been at home) - normally she comes with me or she is with her dad.
he is a bit of a conman, smooth talking you, not giving you answers, all take take take
so what if your house is worht 4 times his debt, why the hell should you have to think about selling your family home for his fecklesness?? sorry to sound so harsh, but he is taking you for a ride.
he cannot even tell you how much he earns, yet knows your finances intimately. it is wrong.
he is your boyfriend - do you want to spend any of your holiday time with him? I mean, with him - not with the assembled extended family on a group holiday?
He doessome of the teenage-wrangling when you go off on all these hols (and you must admit it is a lot, however well deserved, needed, affordable they are for you).
I am assuming the loans have been done on a business-like basis? Written agreements etc? And that you and your Mum knew what you were invensting in, and thought it sound enough to invest in?
You see, in my mind, the loans for the business are one thing and the wish of most people to spend time with their patrner enjoying holidays together are slightly different.
All in all, no, you probably shouldn't pay for his holliday, and should look at the relationship overall.
Why did you loan him the money? Did he persuade you against your better judgement? Did you think it would be an investment (i.e would you and your Mum have profitted if the business had gone well?) - or were you trying to keep him?
be really honest about every aspect of this relationship.
You, your mum and his mum should all have a meeting and discuss what your going to do to get the money back from him, then all meet with him and tell him what is going to happen
are any of you now struggling financially because you have lent him the money?
He using you and your family for money, i think you realy need to reassess your relationship.
I sorry if that is a bit harsh but reading what you have said is that you are putting everything into this relationship and he just taking what he wants and ignoring you when he knows you are trying to change something.
Don't tell you have cancelled his holiday just do it.
I even had to cancel my credit card and have another one re-issued as he was using it behind my back - I know, I know, I shouldn't have let him use it in the first place.
The trouble is, he is a very smooth talker - on Friday I asked what his take-home pay was and what he has to pay out each month (he knows my take-home pay and what I have to pay - mortgage, gas (gone up!), electric (gone up!), water, council tax, food, etc. etc.
At the end of a 40 minute conversation, he had not actually told me anything what I had asked.
The trouble is that I have something to drink (to get the balls up to ask him questions), he then fobs me off by not actually answering and, here we are, 3 days later, and I am still none the wiser.
Thanks for confirming. My friends tell me to cancel, my mum tells me to cancel.
He will not pay for the holiday, I know that deep down - yes, he has now got a new job (after closing his own company) but his 'debt' is nearly half my mortgage and that scares me because at least my house is worth 4 times my mortgage and, if worse comes to worse, I could always downsize.
What has he got to show for his debt? Nothing!
Am trying to speak to him to tell him I am cancelling (only lose the deposit) but, for some reason(!) he is not ringing me back - wonder why!
Yes, he deserves a holiday but, I think, you can only have what you can afford and I work bloody hard for my holidays.
to be honest, i';d be concerned that this guy has fleeced you and your mum for £25 000, which , i am presuming, is not loose change to you.. and is showing no signs of paying anything back.
longterm, i would be really concerned about this level of debt, and his expectations of you bailing him out time and time again.
rather than quibbling over who pays for the holiday, you should be asking tough questions about when he intends to pay you back, as it is a lot of money.
he has p*ssed £45000 up the wall and i would be thinking very carefully before i spent one more penny on him
Brief history :- I am a mum to 3 children, husband (not divorced yet but living apart, moved on, etc.) and boyfriend. Boyfriend has 2 children (1 he sees, 1 he doesn't).
When husband left, changed mortgage to interest only (lots of equity in the house), since changed back to repayment (15 months now).
I work part-time and like/deserve my holidays.
Went to Tenerife at Easter for 1 week (children spent one week at their dads), went away for the next week but eldest daughter (15) didn't want to come - wanted to see her school friends/boyfriend, etc. so me, my mum and 2 youngest went to Tenerife. Eldest DD stayed with her dad (part week) and my boyfriend (part week).
Have also booked to go to Tenerife half term week in October with myself, my mum, my 3 children, my brother and his 3 children (all 'roughly' the same age). My eldest is looking forward to Tenerife in October as she will be with her cousin.
Have also booked to go to Turkey for 2 weeks on 19 August (again me, my mum, my boyfriend, my 3 children). Eldest again doesn't want to come as she will be at her dads for 2 weeks and then we go away for 2 weeks and she will not see her friends/boy friend.
My boyfriend has not been away with me for the last 2/3 years as he cannot afford it - owes me £10,000 (yes, ten thousand) and my mum £15,000 (yes, fifteen thousand) and his mum £20,000 (yes, twenty thousand - she remortgaged) as he started his own company (now closed) and had cash flow problems (don't we all!).
(1) My eldest doesn't want to go to Turkey for 2 weeks after spending 2 weeks at her dads - hates the sun, hates a sun-tan, etc., (2) my 2 youngest have had one week in Tenerife with me and my mum, and (3) all my children will have 1 week in Tenerife (different hotel, different resort) in October.
When I booked the holiday (last November), my boyfriend knew what it was costing, I paid the deposit (only £300) for all of us and he know when the holiday was due to be paid (27 May) - now he tells me he doesn't have the money and can I pay for it and he will pay me back (like all the other money he owes me, I think not!!).
Today, after speaking to my mum, I am thinking of cancelling Turkey for all of us and I will go away with my mum for 2 weeks when the children are with their dad.
... so am I being unreasonable to cancel the 'family' holiday (my boyfriend included) and just go with my mum (the children don't care either way - they don't need holidays like I do!)
) 
. good luck! 
