Ever since my daughter started school (she's in Year 1), I've been feeling that there is too much emphasis on formal education at a very young age. DD's school is lovely and the kids seem very happy there, but they are already at 5/6 receiving 3 lots of homework a week: reading, spellings and a maths sheet. I often don't do it, because she's just too tired, and it puts a stress on the family. I also think it's my job as a parent to help her get balance in her life, and play. SATS are a government initiative to measure how children nationally, and schools, are performing against targets they have set. They don't affect your child's life.

My DS has just done a week of SATs as a Yr 4. Whilst he was much less stressed than last year it is still worrying for him. To add insult to injury, I have heard that our local secondary now re-tests all Year 7's anyway because they have found the SATs tests unreliable, i.e. they do not accurately reflect pupil ability as some schools "hothouse" pupils more than others. It's a complete joke.

My DS (Year 1) gets heaps of homework (far too much for my liking) - and some parents still complain that it's not enough...

I went into after school to look for Y5 DSs lost jumper and there was a class of tired, hot Y6s having a 'revision class'
There is no way DS will be doing extra school after school - if they can't fit the learning into the school day - tough!
We go for a run in the forest, then do up to 30 mins homework, no more, on Sunday morning.
I have been encouraging him to do the longer holiday tasks if they fit in with family activities - Victorians in the village just needed a few photos and it was fun walking around looking for features.
Isn't "having fun in the garden" teaching children to have a healthy work/life balance?

NKffff That's the sort of teacher we all need, I've always said that teaching the curriculum is the school's job - mine is to teach everything else

My DD in year 3 gets v little homework, just reading, which we hardly ever listen to because she's such a bookworm anyway, spellings and times tables which we always forget about. Her teacher says if she's not learning enough in school then she (teacher) isn't doing her job properly! She hardly noticed her year 2 sats last year at her old school, and its the same with tests this year. Seems to be no pressure at all, which imo is right - it should just be an assessment of wha they've learned so far, not an 'exam' with crammed learning to pass. She's only 7! Some schools must really get their pupils worked up, suppose they're passing on the pressure thats on themselves.

It sounds excellent threewisemonkey. It is much more important to have time to read for pleasure and play card games etc. I am not surprised that parents are asking for more homework or moving schools! I said in my first reply to the OP that parental pressure has caused homework to be set, it used to be very unusual in the primary school.

Totally agree with majority of posters. DS1 started a new school in yr 3 and gets hardly any homework - apparently this school doesn't put a great emphasis on h/w, tests etc

Several other parents are asking for more h/w and even moving kids to another school because they don't want them to get behind.

I'm just breathing a huge sigh of relief that I don't have to chase up work every night, do endless spellings etc. Home is for relaxing and learning things that aren't curriculum based.

Don't get me wrong, DS loves to read, for at least 30mins every night, & does Powerpoint presentations for the fun of it etc - he's a bit of a square

Teacher sets a small project once a month or so, which means he can do it when he has time/energy/inclination and enjoys it.

Ah, all the most useful revision was done in the car on the way to school... and homework was done in the playground before the bell went. Happy days!

LOL @ nellyraggbagg, - if I did that any day before my o-levels I wouldn't have got any! Were all done on last minute revision, - some of them I didn't even go to bed for!

Three cheers for you!

I clearly remember my mum taking me for a long walk in the Peak District (my favourite thing) the day before my Latin O-level. She thought I was better off having fun outside than stressing about exams, and I ended up with a PhD. So you are probably condemning your dcs to a life of academic greatness with such a healthy attitude...

Message withdrawn

I never knew my timestables, - well I did learn them, have a test, and promptly forget them. I don't know my alphabet either. Just can't rote learn things and don't see why I should. There is far too much information out there to worry about trying to learn it, - best to teach the skills of research and critical analysis, - that way you have access to any information you want!

We lerant our time tables everyday in school.
It was part of the school day, have to say it has stood me in good stead I can still recite them thirty odd years later. Its this working out method of teaching maths than I find difficult to get my head round. As for SATS, every school up and down england has been pratciscing test papers since Christmas, the children are all fed up of them , if they learnt the basiscs then everything else would fall into place surely. That programme the other night was good. We had an open afternoon at my son's school today as one of his class teachers said, the SATS would be ok if it wasn't for the league tables I think a lot of teachers and parents feel the same. Leagues tables don't take in account the school environment, the setting, the facilities , gardening clubs school meals
etc etc. and as has already been written, SATS vary year on year because the children changes, how many people read theat into the equation........ Banish leagues tables first I say....

SATS ....... lies,damned lies and statistics . I cannot believe that any adult has been gullible enough to believe the spin generated by Labour over these 'tests'.

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It is the SATs tests themselves that need looking at robina-the teaching has been done properly in the first place!
Schools need to do well because of the league tables. League tables should be abolished. Last year I was teaching in the school that came top of our district BECAUSE year 6 were a very intelligent bunch, they haven't got a hope this year-same school, same methods, same teachers but different children. The school my DCs went to will never be top because they have a lot of special needs (and high flyers), it is an excellent school.
Parents need to visit the school on a normal working day and ask questions.
Times tables are taught in schools but they need to be practised over and over again for instant recall-the teacher can't do that for the child-they need to do it at home.

I didn't even know my kids had SATs until the beginning of the week However, ds in yr 6 said that all they'd been doing since Easter was mock tests

I do think SATs are a good thing but I hate all this teaching to the test stuff. If the teaching had been done properly in the first place then they wouldn't need to spend so much time teaching the kids how to answer the questions. Or perhaps the SATs themselves need to be looked at. Whatever, I think it is a good thing to have test results as one of a large number of things that prospective parents can consider whenchoosing schools.

Homework - nothing should be set as far as I am concerned except reading, spelling and times table practise. Oh .... and times tables should be taught, properly, in schools - not wholly by parents.

TMD even
+

TMB that is a lot of work.....would they not compromise???

oh Mrs Guyofgisbourne that is very sad but true....My dp is very live for the moment type where I am more of a sving for a rainy day type....but we work well together and usualy meet somewhere in the middle.

Death however unexpected does make things seem more "live for today" and you only get one go no rehearsal. Children dont get hte opportunity to be kids for long enough, I am gald you had a lovely day at the beach....it is one of my favourite ways to waste my day

We live in France, and my dcs get too much homework imho. My ds1 is in the equivalent of Y5 and gets up to 1.5 hours a night + projects in the holidays.

It makes me really cross that so much empahsis is placed on it - he gets extra homework if he misses or forgets any, and his school bag is so heavy I struggle to pick it up!

I kept ds home one day when it was thick snow He was about 7 and I thought as he ahd never seen or played in snow i couldn't resist,I can never lie about health things though so sent a note to school telling the truth and never heard a thing.Some things are more important.

HAve not read the whole thread, but IMO you are NOT being unreasonable. We did the same - went ot the beach, had an amazing time, kids played ALL DAY in & out of the water - that is what childhood is predominately for! They will do their homework later, and tey understand that, but sometimes you have to seize the moment!! Admittedly my rationale was coloured by the fact that one of my colleagues died unexpectedly last week, at the age of 42 , which helps to get things inot perspective.

I agree with you,well done for taking the balls to put it down on paper to the teacher.

I think that you will find that the poor teacher doesn't want to give it in the first place!

Tell the teacher, - that unless homework comes accompanied by an explanation of the desired learning outcomes, your child will not be doing it!

The poor teacher will give up!

I thought it was a better homework than boring worksheets and I would have liked to have had the sort of DSs who would produce it for fun but the fact was they only did it because it was for school! The end result was good but it was blood, sweat and tears to get there-mainly mine!! I don't think it was worth all the trouble it caused!

I also think AbbeyA that you probably would have done similar things without it being set homework IYSWIM.

DH and I are already excited about spelling Wednesday as it's going to be in our house- poor DS is only 20mo and DC2 is not even born!

When my DSs were at primary school they were very fond of giving topics, such as a country to research and write about.The end results, for my DSs, were lovely because we went to the library, used the internet and I suggested headings, subheading etc.When they did a picture we went to the National Gallery DS2 chose a painting that he liked,bought a post card and researched the artist. I pointed out, at a meeting, that it wasn't fair because some children just didn't have that amount of parental interest and were unable to visit the library etc. The staff could see my point (a school with a great mix of social backgrounds)and they stopped.It wasn't dumbing down fembear, parents can easily do their own project at home. You need to imagine how you would feel as an able 9 year old whose parents don't read, never visit the library or have paper and coloured pens etc at home, you are then forced to go into school with a scrappy piece of paper and compete with ring binders,photographs, typed pages etc.

off soap box - opps!

and at primary level i think it's more important that children enjoy the process of learning...

children should be excited about learning a language, or doing maths (puzzles in our house)...

a good teacher understands this and makes the subjects interesting for the children to learn.

at home, i make sure that cooking is fun, cleaning is fun and gardening is fun...

i don't think we appreciate that we are trying to make well-rounded and intellectually open children, who then can find out stuff for themselves and what interests them, find out what they want to learn.

(climbs of soap box)

No, of course not, but why provide IMO pointless work to be completed in situations that are unfair. If, in secondary, the school days aren't long enough then make them longer. IME teachers would set homeowrk for the sake of setting it and then have all the problems and time wasting chasing it up and marking it.

Taking into account different social circumstances is not dumbing-down.

FWIW I was educatedly privately and rarely had homework...

"I never saw the point in h/w. I also think it was socially divisive. Of course the child with the well-educated parents who have time to sit down with him/her will do better in h/w. The child who has both parents working very long hours, no adult at home, looking after siblings/elderly relatives and no internet access is unlikely to do as well at h/w. It just exacerbates pre-existing social divisions."

So we all dumb-down to the lowest common denominator!!?? Wonder why people people go private instead ...

Maybe all these parents asking for homework think it makes them look like better/more interested parents to the teacher and to other parents. Competetive parenting? Gah!

(slightly irrelevant: I hate working in the garden/being outside too much: worms, slugs/hayfever/too hot/rainy...)

Hate SATS too

Plus in secondary (off subject I know but I'm on a rant now) children are often overloaded from subject to subject. I would always ask my yr 9-11 students what other subjects had given them. One time they had work which would have taken them at least 8-9 hours to do over the next 2 evenings. And I was supposed to set them more? Frankly, I would rather they were awake in my class and i had quality work to mark rather than wasting my time looking at rushed rubbish done after 10pm in front of the television.

When I was teaching we would have to check every pupil wrote down homework in planner so that the parents could see that it was set. As a secondary school teacher, I sometimes set some pretty pointless h/w just to pacify parents.

Apart from extended writing pieces and some reading I never saw the point in h/w. I also think it was socially divisive. Of course the child with the well-educated parents who have time to sit down with him/her will do better in h/w. The child who has both parents working very long hours, no adult at home, looking after siblings/elderly relatives and no internet access is unlikely to do as well at h/w. It just exacerbates pre-existing social divisions.

That's the case at our school, the only homework dd2 (yr 2) does get is when parents keep pressuring the teacher so she gives in, for a few weeks, to keep them quiet.

I think why oh why?! However I can assure you that there are a lot of parents who want it - and I have attended a lot of meetings over the years.

Who on earth would ask for more homework?? Why oh why?!

I think that you will find that parents pressurise for homework-I don't think teachers are too keen on it. It is a controversial subject-any school meeting about it is split between parents who want more and parents (like me) who want less.

YANBU. SATS . Homework <goes off muttering>

I'm not greatly in favour of either.

i would say that a teacher's job is to encourage learning, not dictate homework/parental help with every aspect of reading, writing and maths.

and yes, i have said that to a teacher before!!

lol!

I recently went to a meeting at DS's primary school, aimed at showing the parents how they teach maths nowadays. It was informative and helpful.

However, at the end of the meeting the parents started braying for more homework to be set. I was the only one (and i mean the only one) amongst 35-40 parents, who thought more homework unnecessary.

I don't think it's the teachers that want homework, I think it's parents that demand it much of the time.

YANBU - I bloody hate homework.

Of course we should all help our children learn to read at home etc.

But the boring week in week out homework in primary school is just a waste of time.

Good for you! Homework is the bane of our lives. We get it set on a Friday to be handed in on a Tuesday and leads to arguements most weekends with DS1 as to when it's going to be done. It's rarely done with full concentration and ability as he's trying to rush through it so he can go out to play or watch something on TV.

What I hate most though is homework in the school holidays. We don't take our kids out of school during term time to go on holiday so why should the school set them homework to do during our time with our children especially as most holidays we like to go away and spend time as a family somewhere.

I've already broached the subject of holiday homework for the May half term week as we're going away with extended family including much younger children and staying in one house so homework would be nigh on impossible. I've been told that homework will just be to design a Victorian costume to create and wear on Victorian Day when they go back to school. Think a spot of internet shopping with my flexible friend might get us out of this one!

Good for you I say! My dd is only five and every Friday we get 10 spellings to learn, a homework sheet to complete and a reading book that has to be read. Everything has to be handed in on Monday. Far too much in my opinion but her teacher is a bit of a dragon and I'm too scared to rebel

I'm looking forward to year two though when she will have a whole week to read book, complete homework and hand in.

Homework should be set by the parents imo. i.e. cooking, digging in the garden, singing etc.

Teachers set the work at school.

If I think my DS is getting too much (and anything more than a few spellings and the odd timetable will be too much imo), I'll just do it myself!

Re the homework thing, bollocks waste of time IMO.

I'd rather the teachers were spending their valuable time thinking up fun lessons than mucking about marking waste-of-time homework.

Just do it yourself!

stoppinattwo....I can beat that.

DD is doing Y2 SATS.

Well DP and I had a ponder and decided that, as she isn't actually learning anything much whilst she's being tested it should be a good time for a skive. So we took a sickie and ran off to London. Saw the sights, very educational IMO.

I have a teensy bit of guilt about "letting down" the school, I do think it's important that DCs see us supporting it, but looking at the wider picture we have no doubt that our approach will be better for the DCs in the longer term.

By the way, has anyone ever posted in support of SATS?

Ever?

Not got time to read whole thread at the moment Stopin, but

ABSOLUTELY, 100% GOOD FOR YOU!

Met two twins in year 6 at our school, and their mother, and they'd not been sleeping last week because of worry re: SATS.

10 year old children - sleepless nights & stress????

My DS is yr 2 and just finished his - I couldn't give a tinker's dick about is marks and think playing in the garden adds more to his life skills than SATS ever will, quite frankly.

I won't moan at them. If they're not in the mood, we don't do it. Not any of it. reading or spelling or whatever.

but I do really encourage the fun bits of learning - reading for fun, maths for fun. languages for fun. you can be keen on education without buying into all the homework and testing crap.

Well I think we had reading and spellings didn't we? But we just called them reading and spellings rather than homework.

Oh apparently DS had a "funny spelling test" yesterday which involved a picture of a farm and writing things in a box. I assume this was a SAT but who knows. And he had a late night on Monday, thanks to the really long beavers hike we went on (when I hardly saw him as he was running ahead with friends) compounded by his hayfever affecting his sleep.

I rarely make my son do all the homework he is supposed to do... and have discussed this with his teacher (who is fairly supportive). He is in year 4 and is set-

reading 15mins at least every night
spellings- 10 to learn plus write them in a sentance.
times tables sheet every week
maths sheet x2 every week
plus topic work every other week...

I think it is a ridiculous amount. I have no memory of homework when I was in primary school... I hate moaning at him to do his homework- surely I can wait to do this when he is secondary school?

You can always discuss knowledgably with the teacher how recent educational research confirms previous findings that homework at primary school makes no long term academic difference.

not that I need to, our teachers aren't keen on homework, yr 2 child gets none and yr 3 child gets optional work.

but if it's SATS week why not write in book "DS seemed tired and I thought it would be good if he was fresh for SATS week" they can't really complain then.

I haven’t had experience with SATS and we never did this type of testing in primary school… you had math and spelling but not like this testing. It sounds to me that it is designed more to give a grading of the school opposed to tweaking the curriculum for the children. Even in highschool we never had the homework load you hear of these younger children. I’d make sure my kids were playing more outside of school… they sit on the ass most of the day at school with heads buried in studying.

DS did his homework this weekend as normal (at about 8.30 ish on Sunday am but still managed to fit in playing for his football team, time in the garden with his cousin and his sister's birthday party) and he is in a SATS year (Y2) but I am not sure the word has ever passed his lips. He is totally unaware and therefore unstressed.

Actually I find that DS does his homework far better at a weekend than after school when he is need of chill out time. DS's homework is set on Friday to hand in by Wednesday so we have either option but DS has beavers on Monday and football on Tuesday. He normally does it pyjama clad after breakfast on either Saturday or Sunday. If he doesn't get it done either of those times then I find after breakfast on Monday to be the next best option.

homework! Just before SATs. That's not fair That's been the saving grace for my DS. No hw for the last week or so.

I am a teacher who hates homework.
They are only little, they work hard enough at school.
I only ever gave homework due to pressure from parents tbh (obviously not parents like you!)

Dd has not been given any homework since last Thursday. Teacher says playing outside and relaxing is much more important, but reading a book at bedtime would be good.

Oh twinset i really think that some people forget that life is a jog and not a sprint....we spend so much time dont we, trying to ensure and focus on what hurdles we can get over and miss all the good stuff as it rushes by.....and well what happens at the end of the race

I find myself in a constant battle with myself not to focus just on results and to actually listen to my kids without allowing them to be spoilt(well trying).

you know on sunday we all walked (me and 6 kids!!!) to the park, i knew it was going to thunder and bucket down but i thought oh what the heck!!!

We got absolutely drenched but it was THE biggest giggle.....ds said to me today, "mum you are the silliest mum but yesterday in the park was good fun" They will remember the day out in the storm.

Most teachers I know don't agree with homework anyway. If we had our way, spellings (no more than 10 and relevant), tables and reading (to parents and by parents)would be the only homework to do.

DD2 had her QCA year 4 tests last week and she still got homework! She gets a ridiculous amount, most of it copying up into best (for her neat freak teacher who thinks presentation is more important than content!)DD1 is in year 7 and she gets hardly anything! (Hooray- more time for friends and dancing)

We are about to move and one fo my friends is really shocked that we will be moving dd school in a SATS year. She thinks we should put our whole life on hold because of some tests!

SATS are the work of the facking devil imo.
no, yanbu. good for you.
gold star for your parenting

I never let my dd do homework over the weekend ( she is only 6) it is sometimes set and I always put a note in the diary saying we will do it in the working week.

I have the same policy as a teacher, never set homework for a weekend or over a holiday.

yes....dear mrs teach....DS stoppin didnt do his homework this weekend, he was far too busy being the undertaker and then seeing how far he could squirt water from his mouth.

He was also investigating if snails go any faster if you put them next to each other on a downwards slope.

He took part in in a barcelona Vs Real madrid game and nutmegged Henri ...he did so much, but unfortunately that didnt include his home work

Well Mrs Teach was very understanding and said not to worry....he had tried very hard today.

I was one of the first students to do SATs when they bought them out, i was in year 9.

I hated them and found the score totally irrelevant to anything i needed to know or learn.

If they're still doing them when DS goes to school i will be trying to opt him out of them, and if i can't i'll be doing the same as the OP.

I think testing primary school children is disgusting.

there is something i would call a diplomatic lie. i would go for this strategy myself. but then, each to his own.

Message withdrawn

Thanks all....am going to see teacher after school..<<slids book down back of trousers>>

Well done, stop. Whatever pressure the teachers are under, they've got a nerve setting weekend homework at all.

In 20+ year of secondary teaching, I've only ever set reading over a weekend for exam groups and never set weekend work for anyone else. weeeknds are for family life. As Nan Taylor would say; what a fucking liberty!

Sorry for the awful typing - wireless keyboard playing up

I've sent a note in today to say that as we have been out all weekend (including a lot of playing in the garden) dd has not done her homework. She didn't do it last week either.

She gets horr on a Fiay t Monddy whii thieasonable espel dh and ork Friday evenings all ay Saturday so dd spends the time with grandparents and cousins.

Yesterday she went with her grandad to a poetry festival and performed a poem. Time better spent I think!!!!

I think you are being very sensible. Do hate all this pressure on small children. I don't remember having any exams until I went to high school. And you are right that SATS are supposed to be a test for the school, not the pupil!

Heifer/ Nigella...yes thanks we had a fab weekend!!!!

BBQ's galore and cricket.....trampolining and a bit of footie.

Very action packed

I think it teaches kids that relaxation time is important and sometimes if work can be resheduled that is ok too. I may put it to the teacher that he will do this work and another opportune moment...although this week will be a no due to all the exam work. I think that ds realises that there are some things that cant be avoided but some things can be postponed

My dd1 is in year 3, she has her homework set on a thusday to be handed in on a monday, if we have a really busy weekend doing fun things I write a note to say we were too busy at the weekend to complete the homework and that she will bring it in when it is finished. Last tuesday I wrote a note explaining we had been very busy over the bank holiday weekend so rather than force dd1 to do her homework Monday evening when she was tired she needed another day to do it.

did you have a lovely weekend? is DS more relaxed? if he is he is far more likely to do the school proud than if he's all wound up and stressed. i think you have been most sensible.
do let us know what the school say.

i dont remember any big build up to tests when i was child- i know we used to go in sometimes and do tests but we didnt know what day it would be and there was certainly no pressure just head down no talking and when wed finished we got a juice cupdrink and after lunch we all played sports.

i look back on my junior schooldays s happy days full of sunshine and fun i dont remember sats and bullying.....

What work he does / doesn't do in the 2 days leading up to the SATs is hardly going to make a difference - but him learning that it is OK to kick back and relax sometimes and that SATs are not the be all and end all of life will make a difference - a very positive one. Good for you, and I do hope the teacher has the sense not to give you or DS a hard time about it.

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My DS2 Year 6 has just gone off to school totally stressed out and feeling sick with worry over his SATS. His teacher gave him homework this weekend, which pissed me off, but he has done it. There is far too much pressure on kids these days and I wish I was "brave" enough for him not to have done his homework. If he gets some next weekend maybe I will just say no!

SATS are supposed to give an idea of how the school is performing in the day to day teaching. All this cramming and stressing and practising totally defeats the object.

It is ridiculous.

More time playing and socialising at an early age would be far better for our children, and society, than all this stress.

YANBU. I am glad you and your DS had a lovely weekend.

Dd wasn't given any homework this weekend, and she has had a lovely time playing in the garden. I really hope her teachers have been able to have a nice relaxing weekend too.

Good for you SA2.. Just had email from best mate telling me that her DS was worrying about his Sats this week and that he hadn't been sleeping etc... Not good at all..

Hope you had a great weekend.

All work and no play and all that..


Not much housework going to get done today, as I will be playing water fights with DD in the garden as soon as I have finished on here!.....

Good for you!

I see it as my job to make let my son realise that relaxation time is just as improtant to him and those around him, than hard work.....He has been trying hard and I think I had to pull rank somewhat and say, enouhg is enough. He is year 4 pupil so it isnt even as if his SATs results are important to the school.

I think to go into his exams this week fully refreshed and happy is mor important. The school and teachers I can deal with

There's more to life than SATS. Your son will probably have gained more from having a fun weekend in the garden. But you will definitely get flak from the teacher because SATS make the world go round as far as many schools go, so don't expect them to just say "Oh, ok". SATS aren't that important, more about school's achievement figures than the pupils', but as long as he's doing OK overall I see no reason to stress over them.

Glad you had a lovely weekend!

Or does the truth hurt??

They have SATS this week and again DS has been stressing about it on friday <<had a similar episode last year with them>>. He got very upset and worried. So i Thought bugger it... no homework this weekend and lets all play in the garden ....so we did

Im in the process of sending teach a letterr explaining that DS hasnt done his hwork and that is my fault not his, and I thought he really neede to chill out this weekend after being so upset.....and leading up to a busy week this week.

Please dont bite me about it