Ok I know its early in the morning and a sunny day but please AIBU?
DP does re-enacting (this means he dresses up as a German and marches round in the mud, (I wont even get started on what I find wrong with that) any way he has brough a very old camera to go with his dress up stuff and decided to put a digital camera inside it so it will take photos, now this is where I am being Unreasonable according to him..... He wanted to use my camera, this meant dismantleing it I said NO.
He said that
1 it is old
2 it is not very good
3 he would replace it with a new and better one

I still did not want him to take it apart but after much pleading I gave in for some peace and quite, so he took it apart, got a shock off of it then found it was too big so put it back together again, but still says I was unreasonable not to want him to do it in the first place.

We shall put it to the good ladies of mumsnet to say who was and was not.....

I think the fact that he would buy you a new one does make you a little unreasonable. BUT, I can see that you are just fed up of the whole thing and therefore don't want to have anything to do with it!

Message withdrawn

tell him to get you the new one first yanbu! ime someone promising to get you a new one and actually getting you one is a whole different thing

asda and tesco are open on sudays from 10 send him down there to get you a new one then you will both be happy

He has put my one back together as it was too big and is not after the one DS1 has (againg with the offer of a new and better one in its place)

is NOW

That is so funny but let the man do his strange things and make sure you get a shiny new camera at the end of today!

I suspect this was simply because it was related to his hobby which you don't support...

If he had wanted to take your old camera and replace it, without it being to do with his re-enacting, would you be as narked..?

If he'd taken my camera apart I would still want a new one even if he'd put it back together again. A deal is a deal!!!!!

YANBU about the camera (I would be annoyed about it too), but to be honest, I'd be a little more worried about the whole dressing up as a German soldier business !

YANBU at all - it's your camera! You get to decide whether to give someone else your possessions or not. How would he like it if you just demanded something of his whether he liked it or not? Replacing it isn't the point, he's not your boss and he can't issue orders (maybe his distasteful hobby is starting to affect RL...).

How would he like it if you took his dressing up clothes and insisted on swapping them for something new - say, an WW2 RAF uniform?

ok so maybe I was BU about the camera, and yes I do hate his hobby, it got in to it via a very stupid friend he has.
Why can't he play with trains or spot planes? I find it all in very bad taste tbh and do not get me started on the cost, let alone the crap that he buys from eBay.... of the shows and I won't mention the authentic WW2 nazi gun.

YANBU about the camera at all. But his hobby is fucking weird. Is he the only person in Western Europe who doesn't realise what they got up to?

No idea why I said western Europe, tbh, in the world?

Well re the camera if he has offered to replace it, or returned it as good as new, seems ok, unless he actually wrested it from your gripping hands or something. TBH I am much more intrigued by the mud-marching, how and where does this happen, is he alone or with some sort of club, what do they re-enact? Sorry to be so nosy just find it extraordinary.

my concern is not with his camera dismantling it is with the anti semitic 'hobby' as you put it... as a partial MOT I find this very offensive and disturbing that anyone would don Nazi gear!

Do you mean he dresses up as a German or as a Nazi????

She said he has Nazi gear?

Yes I have only just seen the bit about the gun.

YABU I f he replaces the camera swiftly. If not then YANBU.
He is being completely unreasonable by dressing up as a nazi

So are he and his friend part of a club?
I would be very concerned if dh and his friend dressed up as nazis and rolled around in mud together

If it's WW2, surely dressing as a German and dressing as a Nazi is the same thing. What on earth is he up to???

To be fair to DP he is a very good person and very kind hearted and this hobby is so out of place for him as a day to day person.
He is not in the least anti semitic by the way, in fact I have never met anyone more live and let live and help everyone then DP, so I guess that is why I hate the mud marching so much.

To clearify he is part of a huge group of people who dress up and go to events and re-enact, there are Germans, English, Russian, Italian and so on, they do raise alot of money for vetrens and alot of WW2 vets go along to these events. Also DP sees it as a way to remind people of the evils done by the Germans, schools and stuff even have re-enacters visit.

I do not like what he does, I would not like it if he was dressed as any other nation either, I do not like the amount of money everything costs, I do not like the old dirty stuff that turns up from ebay, I would not go and watch, although alot of events are fully og WW2 vets and familys so I am told.

But I guess my think with the camera is more to do with why he wanted it and not that he wanted it.
Maybe if he was a roundhead or a roman I would mind less?

The OP didn't specify WW2. Might have been Bismarck types in pointy helmets. But she did later mention a Nazi gun.

I call it all nazi crap tbh as I don't like it, but it is just German stuff although I do find it hard to seperate the two.

Sorry No19 I wasn't having a go, just a bit at whole dressing up rigmarole!

Though the way Kimi describes it sounds fair enough. He knows he's being "the bad guy" in that context.

Is there a hierarchy? Could he get promoted to acting another country at some stage?

Do they have to do accents?

Yes me too PG but if it's some sort of educational pageant I suppose it's ok, though am still not clear.

LOL pea, I dont know how you get your "role" in fairness I do not like it and I am hard on him for it, but as I said the events do raise money for the WW2 vets who do seem to enjoy going along to watch. Some of the members are in their 70s.
As yet he has only been to one event so far but has been getting all the stuff ready.

These re-enactment people are a weird bunch. We often come across them cos we like visitng the odd castle or two, and I do feel sorry for the kids they drag along, and how they get sooooo into being a medieval peasant for the day, just tending their cooking pot. And the acting is usually unforgiveable. Oh well, keeps em off the streets...

As for accents.....anyone watch allo allo?
Goood mornink

The down side for you Kimi is that it keeps them off the streets and in your house!

[sympathetic]

I would be highly concerned if my dh had this as a hobby never mind about the camera.

It is bizarre but he's a grown man and it's not hurting anyone I suppose. I'd go mental with my DH if he wanted to do it.

I was pissing by the door kind of thing? LOLOL

It is not in my house, it is in large muddy filds and school playgrounds.
I have been to re-enacting things with romans and medivil and so on but I just don't like the WW1/WW2 stuff.

I guess if it does teach the ipod generation who think call of duty is a fun playstation game that real war is evil, the Gurmans were evil, ethnic cleansing is evil then it is a "good" thing.

I have to admit that on seeing the photos I thought they looked more funny then scary.

But I do not like it, and the fact that my DP is such a humanaterian (sp) in real life makes it harder to work out.
His mother is mortifide the child she never let have actionman or a water pistol even re-enacts.

This friend sounds like a bad influence

I seem to have lost all ability to spell today

It may be old and not very good but I suspect that you liked it just the way it was and it is (was?) functioning so YANBU

This marching around dressed as a german thing then, erm, tell us more about that. Do you have to dress up too? Is it a bit like Allo Allo?

Have to say his friend is really in to it and wants DP to "invest" in a motorbike WW2 style I said no fecking way.

DP has seen this now and is sad people wopuld think he is anti semitic as he is not.

However he still wants DS1s camera

Quattrocento it is very Allo Allo.
I do not /have not/ and will not dress up.

It would seem 1000s of people do this on a weekend, google WW2 re-enacting and you will see .

Most german crap went home with his friend after the weekend avay and I am more then happy for it to stay there as it is all old and dirty and as someone with OCD I hate it for that reason as well as the face this stuff was used in a fecking war.

On the one side I see it can be educational on the other I find it macarb

Or, General Blucher at the Battle of Waterloo. Granted he was Prussian, but after unification in 1870-71 we could ascribe him "German" staus.

tricky I know.

anyway. You are being perfectly reasonable. He needs to get out more.

No pan it going out thats the problem

I feel bad that people now think DP is sick and evil as I have said he is a really nice chap and this is so far away from who he is that I just don't get it.

I know not all Germans were Nazi's but I call it all Nazi crap anyway and none of it is allowed in the house apart from the uniform (£400 worth) in a suit bag hidden away.
The gun (I have such issues with that) is now at his friends and will hopefully stay there,

It would also seem the WW2 vets like the German re-enacters more then the English ones as they have a thing about the English ones useing WW1/WW2 medels

If he's buying you a new camera I think YABU.

www.ww2reenacting.com/ tis this kind of thing I guess.

Do you think it would be unreasonable for my to stick a pot plant in his helmet over the camera thing?

kimi, you do what you like with your property.

I find this whole re enactment malarky very creepy tbh

Its not creepy or anti-semitic. ITS A HOBBY PEOPLE

Good grief.

Its just LARP (live-action-role-play) thousands of people do it over all sorts of era's and genres.

Would you call an actor who played a Nazi in a war film anti-semitic? Most of the extra's in those films are troupes of these LARPers, its a perfectly normal hobby.

It's still creepy. Grown adults running around playing make believe like they were still at primary school. <shudders>.

Sometimes we go to these country shows where they always seem to have a wild west theme.Cue portly ladies in bonnets sewing whilst their menfolk are all dressed up like Davey Crocket, looking like they have had various bits of rabbit glued to their bodies!!!

just wondered if the uniform-bit is confined to the 'battle-field'...cough..

actually, as a jewish person, i would find it very unnerving that someone would dress as a german soldier, and reeanct things, and buy nazi memorabilia. it might not be anti semitic per se , but it is deeply disturbing, why could he not dress as an italian or french or british soldier from that era. buying nazi memorabilia is something i persoanlly find repugnant.

am sure the OPs DP is lovely, but i would find this aspect of his personality unnerving

lulumama - are you at all appeased by the following? - NOT saying you should be.

"To clearify he is part of a huge group of people who dress up and go to events and re-enact, there are Germans, English, Russian, Italian and so on, they do raise alot of money for vetrens and alot of WW2 vets go along to these events. Also DP sees it as a way to remind people of the evils done by the Germans, schools and stuff even have re-enacters visit."

Perhaps he offers to show kimi the size of his bratwurst ( sorry kimi!)

I don't get the whole re-enactment thing. It makes me deeply uncomfortable- vast numbers of people dying doesn't say leisure activity to me. Each to their own I suppose, but I don't blame you for not wanting the stuff in the house.

He is a tosser - soprry just don;t get all this reenactment stuff!

Go out and replace your camera with a hugely expensive one abd get him to pay!

I am just browsing John Lewis for some new patio furniture whilst I watch DH lovely do fingerpainting on the one I have for the last 5 years rubbed down and restained every summer and my head is just about to go BANG!!!!

He is not a tosser, thank you very much, he just has a stupid past time.

The uniform has never seen action other then the re-enacting pan

and his bratwurst is in good working order

I did suggest he be an Italian but then it would be confuseing what side he was on, German till 12.30 and British after lunch

What is it with men and hobbies?

O know, never again will I snigger at the sados blokes plane spotting as I drive past the airport

Just out of interest kimi, did your dp have this hobby when you met him or did it develop later?

When we met His friend was already doing this and trying to talk DP in to doing it, (DP has a lovely life and a good job and his friend has not worked out so well, they have been friends for a long time and I think DPP feels a bit guilys that they started out together but DP is doing so mucch better, thus indulging friend too much) I dissaproved from the off, DP said he would not join in if we were together but needed something if I was not going to be with him.

Anyhoo I am with him and he is now doing this, he works hard and long hours (director of a company) provides for us well but needs a time out and a hobby.

I have ask him not to do it, as I don't like it, he says he does not like some of the things I do when I ask what things I do that he does not like he said "well you know those things you do" in a everything kind of voice turning it all in to a bloody joke.

Still at least he will have a hobby when he is all on his own

Its not like running around in the playground FFS.

*shakes head*

Some of you really need to learn to lighten up.

Lulumama, there is little point in doing a WW2 re-enactment if there is no opposition.. someone has to play the bad guy.

When I said the school playground I was refuring to the groups that re-enact at schools as part of history lessons

Kittywise, shall i go tell the people who work and act in period costume at Ironbridges Blistshill museum that you think they're running around and playing make believe?

THis stuff has a very valuable educational purpose and is proven to engage and teach children much more effectively than reading a book or watching a film.

THW - I do see lulumama's reserve on this,and do agree that this 'bad guy' is qualitative different to most. It's a visceral reaction I imagine.

First I'm amazed at how many men like to play dress up and re-enact war. I had a teacher that loved doing Civil War (am in US) re-enactments. Really at the end of the day they are playing dress up. If they want war tell them to go to Iraq or Afghanistan.

Second as far as the Camera goes. He now owes you a new camera. He promised he'd give you one if you let him take it apart, well he did. Now it's time for him to pony up.

THW I think that any educational advantage is a by product. The people who dress up and do re enactments like to do it because they like to do it surely?

i think yabu - only read the op.

i guess if his hobby is overtaking your life - thats a different but very reasonable point.

Lulumama on Sun 11-May-08 12:01:47
"actually, as a jewish person, i would find it very unnerving that someone would dress as a german soldier, and reeanct things, and buy nazi memorabilia. it might not be anti semitic per se , but it is deeply disturbing, why could he not dress as an italian or french or british soldier from that era. buying nazi memorabilia is something i persoanlly find repugnant.
"

Re-enactment is basically like a (badly organised and badly scripted) play or film: it wouldn't really come off if people were only willing to play the good guys.

How would you feel if you saw a film on the telly about WW2 battles which only featured British soldiers fighting against the air, because the actors found it repugnant to dress up as Nazis? Bit odd, don't you think?

These are amateur actors (usually because they haven't got the talent to do the real thing). It's not the same as having a fetish about the Nazis.

kittywise on Sun 11-May-08 14:36:10
"THW I think that any educational advantage is a by product. The people who dress up and do re enactments like to do it because they like to do it surely? "

Yes and archaeologists dig things up because they enjoy doing that. Actors act because they like doing that. And teachers teach because they used to think they liked doing that .

cory, they are not playing battles as a job though are they, it's a hobby. Therein lies a world of difference!!!

I refused to go to dinner with a man because his hobby was into re-enacting as his hobby. He also had a beard so I suppose there were lots of other downsides too.

It's a bit ridiculous for him to claim that the reenactment helps people learn that the Nazis were bad. As if anybody didn't know that already.

YANBU about the camera either. He sounds like a big kid snatching other people's toys. Next thing you know he'll be demanding lebensraum.

xenia, was he covered in bits of dead rabbit?!!

cory and hedgewitch, i realsie that, but acting in a movie is different to playing the role as real life fun. and doing it week after week and buying memorbilia. why the need to re-enact WW2, i think we all know how it ended i stick by what i said and i think it is a grim area to be into, on such a personal level. lots of other things you can do to educate people that the nazis were not that great

no, pan it does not appease me as it is too close to home so see it as 'fun' or educational.. not forgetting the nazis also sought to exterminate, homosexuals, nazis, the disabled , gypsys and everone they saw as imperfect. it is not just about being anti semitic, but about the out and out hatred for so many. glorification of the nazi era and its accoutrements repulses me. but that is just my opinion

I think it's a strange hobby, but that doesn't mean (in my eyes) that he is necessarily a nazi sympathiser.
He is obviously getting something out of it.
It's alright to take the mickey, but I think real offence being taken is a bit ott.
Also, I think it is important for youngsters to be educated about the past, and if this is a way that engages them then surely that's a good thing?

I think the reenactment stuff is a bit weird, partly because there are people still alive who suffered so dreadfully under the Nazis.

well, we shall have to disagree on this, as i do find it persoanlly offensive.. buying nazi memoribila offends me, as it is glorifying and putting value on nazism. does not make that person a nazi or a sympathiser per se, but makes them dubious in my eyes. there are many more ways to educate and engage imo. but that is my personal feeling

I know it may be in bad taste and a strange hobby to some, but it does have educational value.
It did happen and the Nazis were evil and yes some people need to be taught that you are not just born knowing it, we could gloss over all bits of history we find upsetting, anyone think the slave trade was over rated and history books would be nicer without that little hiccup in them, or maybe we should in years to come forget the twin towers and the war that followed.

It is history and these people are not really raping, killing and sending people to the gas huts.

They put on silly clothes and sit in a field FFS

As for the camera, if it still works then no problem

So how does wearing silly clothes and sitting in fields educate anyone?

The reason the Nazis were evil isn't because they were fighting battles though, which is what is being reenacted, it's because they murdered millions of people in death camps.

Unless the reenactment is of death camps which would be extraordinarly tastless, they aren't teaching anybody anything except it's fun to dress up in uniforms and pretend to kill one another.

Because othersilly prople go to watch!!!!
Also if they go to schools to do living history that is educating is it not.

You can go to gamestation and buy war games to blow people to bits with and kids play them and see war as a game, if real people are showing how bad war is that has to be a good thing, no?

Todays kids see violance on TV in games on the street, war on the news and it is becoming so everyday that people especially the young ones need to be told how bad it was.

A book does not convay this

or that it is ok to dress up and pretend to be one and buy the memorabilia... it just does not sit well with me

Maybe living history in this case would be better served by having survivors talk to children about their experiences.

I am told alot of WW2 vets do go along and give talks and so on, and pointers on this and that.

Lulu my children have jewish history and as DS1 has SN the Nazis would have expermented on him and killed him. My Family lost people in the war (and I lost a half brother the first time we went to get the oil for the USA)

I don't ever want any of it to be glossed over.
DP is not trying to play war nor make it seem fun.
I just don't like it and I don't like the rubbish he buys (alot of it if reproduction) sadly some of it is the real thing.

But DP is a really lovely man and not at all one to think the Nazi's were anything but evil (also as he has red hair they would have "cleansed" him away too)

It's like a play. You can't ban plays with nasty people in them.

Would be too dull.

(Yes I had lots of people in my family killed in gas chambers)

Give me strenth, now he is watching a dirty rusty old spanner on eBay for the barguin price of £10

Get him to get you a nice modern camera and ignore all that about his hobby.

I suspect that people who claim all germans in their armed forces were evil nazis is some kind of 'ism.

I hope the people saying that realise that our soldiers killed people too. It's what they are paid for and considered patriotic when we do it.

Oh come off it grey.
Our soldiers enlisteed to stop the spread of nazism, not for the pay.
I am sure not all fighting german soldiers were out and out nazis but seeing as they were fighting for them they must have some sympathy.

I'm not sure everyone fighting for germany was a Nazi. Sometimes we have little choice.

My mothers friend has a husband and son in their second term in Iraq and they both despise the fact they are involved in this war.
But it is what they signed up for.

"But it is what they signed up for."

Most of our guys in WWII didn't have that luxury, but at least they were fighting for the good. On the other hand, most of Germany's side was against it. I've heard some amazing stories of "the enemy" sabotaging Germany's efforts - often why there are a lot of bombs still being found. One Ally plane took on a bomb and expected to go down. When it didn't explode they tried to defuse it, when they opened the bomb they found it empty with a note in the language of the country they were over saying "This may be all we can do". The factory workers were putting empty shells through when the Germans weren't looking.

Sorry, OT, I'm going to read the thread now.

no, lulumama, I didn't think the reasons given would satisfy you, nor should they. Many folks have that visceral reaction to emblems and images, and I don't think anyone should try to 'reason it away' for you. [I had a reaction to the Cross of St. George though for differing reasons ].